Two-Handed Axes And Maces Look Small And Dinky

Durban

I agree, the 2H swords are a bit too big, would be nice if they made them more realistic, like the 2H axes and mauls.

Sindala

It's ok with the wanting weapons to be true to life, but if this is the case then they need to speed up the Heavy attacks on 2 Handed weapons as they are ALOT faster in RL. Just watch some youtube vids and you'll see how 2handed weapons in this game are punished.

Half a job again

Winnower

they were made "realistic" and smaller when given a choice because of graphic issues with how they look on your back when not being actively wielded.

This is particularly true of the shields. Clipping and how much they would obscure the rear view almost certainly are the guiding limitations on the size of shields. People who really carried around huge shields did not magically have them disappear when they switched weapons, and they didn't sling them on their back making them look like turtles with overly large shells.

Anyway - pretty sure the decisions in this direction were graphics based and have nothing to do with RL vs. fantasy.

AlexDougherty

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Alright, let me put it this way for you guys.

1) To the people saying that the maces and axes hold realistic weapon sizes: Look at the Two-Handed Swords. Apart from the Ayeleid and barely Daedric versions, every single 2H sword in this game is gigantic and super fantasy imposed, yet extremely simple and elegant in it's design. It gives that feeling of being an imposing, formidable force of war, yet also retains a sense of realism, that a man could realistically swing this thing around and not pull his back out. In comparison, only the Breton and Barbaric Maces and absolutely none of the Axes (although Ayeleid, Dwemer, and Altmer gets close) has that same effect, none of them make you think that "Man, this is going to hurt!"

Well the Great Swords are a bit oversized, but even there they had swords that big in historical times, admittedly they were designed to be used from horse back, but where used on foot if the knight's horse died.

I'm not saying that weapons need to stay realistic, just that it's kind of nice that most of them are, we actually had weapons like that in our past. It makes the fighting mobs a bit less ridiculous, until you use an ability.

Khivas_Carrick

Winnower wrote: »

they were made "realistic" and smaller when given a choice because of graphic issues with how they look on your back when not being actively wielded.

This is particularly true of the shields. Clipping and how much they would obscure the rear view almost certainly are the guiding limitations on the size of shields. People who really carried around huge shields did not magically have them disappear when they switched weapons, and they didn't sling them on their back making them look like turtles with overly large shells.

Anyway - pretty sure the decisions in this direction were graphics based and have nothing to do with RL vs. fantasy.

That....Is something I never thought of, I will admit that. I suppose in the future when consoles don't have to be catered to in such a way that everyone else suffers (because I'm pretty sure that even the xbone could've handled larger weapons and the devs were just a bit...apprehensive in redoing it all) but I hold out for the future.

Darkeus

i dont understand why people say greatswords are to big, did you even saw a greatsword from medieval times? also i think depends the size of your body cause if you are woodelf even normal swords may look as 2h cause you are small, but if you are nord then big weps arent that big at all... so compared to normal size greatswords are decent ok, personaly i would want them bigger, at least the dark elf style weps i like them bigger

Shizashane

History lessons for all! I love my orc meat masher, and the sweet sweet *ting* sounds of it bashing in a helmed skull!

Wicked_Wolf

All I want are two handed axes that look like they did in previous Elder Scrolls games. Right now, they are much smaller.

All this talk of realism...really? Take a look around you and tell me the rest of the game is based on realism. Come on now. Plus, I don't think anyone wants the ridiculous anime style/size. Just something resembling the other TES games would be nice.

nalimoleb14_ESO

I completely agree, that's why I almost always use 2H swords because at least they look bigger/more threatening than those toy axes/maces. Unfortunately, the best 2H weapons that ever drop for me are always axes/maces...

BBSooner

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

You guys are talking about the two hands being realistic and all.. So a person with tail can do flame damage with the weapon, that is fine.. but OH MY GOD pls don't make it a couple of cm larger then in real life... But portals and stuff.. yeah all fine.. :P :P :P :P :P... (irony here if you didn't noticed)

I have a great sword just because of this issue.. My muscle orc looks like a *** with an 2H axe.

Because rooting fantasy in reality adds to the suspension of disbelief. You might as well argue that you should be able to have 2 heads and 3 arms because this is fantasy and if people can use portals then anything goes.

Aeratus

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Then with that knowledge and logic the Two-Handed swords should be shrunk down as well. Look at those things man, they're massive. Second, think about the world you're in. We have Lizard and Cat Folk running around, let alone multiple types of elves, with magic. Magic.

Magic, man.

It would not kill you or anyone else if the mace and ax size was slightly increased to make them appear more worthy of the hell and/or effort you went through to get them.

No, not really. Historically, 2h swords appeared much bigger than 2h axes. This is becuause 2h sword was used for reach, whereas 2h axe was not used for reach. Additionally, the blunt part of the axe was not so big, because the bigger the axe blade the less effective it is.

Realistic 2h sword (zweihander)



Realistic 2h axe (dane axe)

Khivas_Carrick

Oh good god man then fine, you got the 2H swords right, but seriously, you have yet to present a real argument against Maces and Axes being scaled to represent a size that doesn't make you a laughing stock on the battlefield.

Sure, hooray for you and your historical accuracy. Being historically accurate in a fictional world playing as a very fictional race fighting for a fictional throne using fictional magic and tactics against fictional demons with or without the aid of fictional divine deities.

So much historical accuracy, so much, so good.

2 gud, 2 cool 4 skool, magic all day err'day 5eva.

Yes, I've resorted to that because frankly arguing with you people who love the dinky weapons is like arguing with a brick wall, especially when your argument contradicts itself with the game setting itself.

One, one guy got it right when he said that it was a graphics issue, not an art choice, and so far his is the only argument to hold water against the legion of the rest of us that have said that the weapons look small and dinky and they don't use them specifically for that.

GGNORE

Khivas_Carrick

That came off way more harsh than I wanted it to be, and I apologize, I'm having a pretty craptastic day.

As the same guy pointed out, it doesn't really matter what we want because if it gets implemented it'll be way down the road, and until that point in time, we're stuck with shrinky *** toys of weapons in a fantasy setting.

Although an idea popped in my head:

You say that swords were built for reach and axes and maces weren't, so why not let the 2H skills shift and change depending on the weapon used, like in addition to the current bonuses of bleed damage, armor pen, and dmg boosts, why not add in that Axes swing faster (not sure what else to put here), maces lower enemy weapon damage (or something) and swords have like 5-8m extra reach?

Also, that's one fly ass looking German.

Aeratus wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Realistic 2h sword (zweihander)

AlexDougherty

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

That came off way more harsh than I wanted it to be, and I apologize, I'm having a pretty craptastic day.

As the same guy pointed out, it doesn't really matter what we want because if it gets implemented it'll be way down the road, and until that point in time, we're stuck with shrinky *** toys of weapons in a fantasy setting.

Although an idea popped in my head:

You say that swords were built for reach and axes and maces weren't, so why not let the 2H skills shift and change depending on the weapon used, like in addition to the current bonuses of bleed damage, armor pen, and dmg boosts, why not add in that Axes swing faster (not sure what else to put here), maces lower enemy weapon damage (or something) and swords have like 5-8m extra reach?

Also, that's one fly ass looking German.

Aeratus wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Realistic 2h sword (zweihander)

Um, not a bad idea, not sure if they could get the engine to do it, but the actual idea is good, after all that's how it worked in skyrim, and it did make your weapon choices more meaningful.

Potenza

And who said that size doesn't matter!?

Aeratus

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

That came off way more harsh than I wanted it to be, and I apologize, I'm having a pretty craptastic day.

lol no problem. I had intended my posts to be somewhat provocative, but in the end it comes down to your preferred art style.

But if you were to raise the issue of "a size that doesn't make you a laughing stock on the battlefield," I'm pretty sure that if you had stepped into a realistic battlefield with a fantasy-style 2h axe/mace, you would be the one who is the laughing stock. And although this is a fantasy world with magic, magic is not a substitute for logic.

Animal_Mother

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

heinsjb14_ESO wrote: »

They look larger if you play as a bosmer.

Have you seen the Bosmer 2H Sword? It's easily the largest of them all. That thing is a BIGGIN`!

Yup. While, I don't speak for all Bosmers, we may be compensating for something like being portrayed as hippies or a having complete lack of dwarven ruins to explore.

I know my Opening Post and following thread have been......less than spectacular in terms of detail and getting my thoughts and feelings across, but I do hope this helps clear things up for a number of people as well as those who must be made aware the most.

I'm currently using a Nord quest reward battle axe and it seems small compared to the Dominion great sword I was carrying before it. That thing is huge - must be a Bosmer design.

I notice some weapon size scaling when starting new characters and going through the tutorial; the starting weapons we pick up seem more impressive on the table than equipped. Same thing goes for the basic armor pieces you can find on armor stands throughout the game - reality just doesn't meet the expectations.

Maybe we ought to have a crafting option to make weapons more impressive by using more materials, but not changing stats. More customization.

firstdecan

Wicked_Wolf wrote: »

All I want are two handed axes that look like they did in previous Elder Scrolls games. Right now, they are much smaller.

All this talk of realism...really? Take a look around you and tell me the rest of the game is based on realism. Come on now. Plus, I don't think anyone wants the ridiculous anime style/size. Just something resembling the other TES games would be nice.

Not possible, this game (which I enjoy) still has a ways to go before it measures up to a real TES game.

Louis

the only concern for me is are the shields, gods those things are so tiny it doesnt even feel like youre holding one

OrphanHelgen

BBSooner wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

You guys are talking about the two hands being realistic and all.. So a person with tail can do flame damage with the weapon, that is fine.. but OH MY GOD pls don't make it a couple of cm larger then in real life... But portals and stuff.. yeah all fine.. :P :P :P :P :P... (irony here if you didn't noticed)

I have a great sword just because of this issue.. My muscle orc looks like a *** with an 2H axe.

Because rooting fantasy in reality adds to the suspension of disbelief. You might as well argue that you should be able to have 2 heads and 3 arms because this is fantasy and if people can use portals then anything goes.

Bosses with two heads would be awesome :-D
I actually have seen one of those mini bosses.. Looks like a squid and have many eyes and can fly..

PLS don't make the 2H axes larger.. It won't be realistic.

dodgehopper_ESO

The length of the greatswords isn't wrong, however the weight of them is. If you're going to be into the realism thing, most fantasy weapons really get the weight wrong. Take Skyrim for instance, where the thickness and width of the weapon is really far too large to be realistic. Knights were not stupid. They realized that you wanted a weapon with reach that could be swung with the greatest ease for the longest duration. There is really no reason to build a greatsword that weighs 25 pounds when you could make one that weighs around 3.5 to 4.5 pounds that does the job more effectively and efficiently.

When it comes to the pole weapons, which really a lot of the two-hand maces and axes are, their size isn't particularly wrong although there were likely better options with greater length and less weight (Halberds, Ranseurs, Lances, Pikes, Bill Hooks, Glaives, Bed de Corbin, Bardiche, Morning Star (which is actually about right in game), War scythes, Guisarmes, and the list goes on). Polearms were taken to a science in medieval warfare, and taken very seriously as your life, the lives of your men, and the preservation of your wealth and holdings depended upon it.

Overall though, what I appreciate about the TES series is that they do seem to try to ground their fantasy a great deal more than other fantasy games have done, and this in turn makes them a lot easier to suspend disbelief and enjoy the story.

I think what a lot of people want realistically should fall into a new skill line which we could effectively call 'Polearms', although realistically speaking they would all be wielded in different ways (some have hooks for yanking back shields, spikes for jamming into helmets, hooks for dismounting enemy cavalry, spear points for jabbing in a spearlike fashion, etc).

I would personally also love a Spear/Shield skill line and a Longspear/Polearm skill line.

Rune_Relic

Inclined to agree.
1st time I whipped out my two hander I burst out laughing.
Its enough to give a man an inferiority complex.

AngryNord

The daneaxe in that picture is actually fairly representative of how they actually were. Possibly the shaft is a bit too long.

AlexDougherty

Louis wrote: »

the only concern for me is are the shields, gods those things are so tiny it doesnt even feel like youre holding one

You can get bigger shields, but some like the buckler look. You just need to try different styles to find one you like.

SRIBES

I would love to see maces more like hammers tbh. As for axes it would be awesome if they took some of ideas from skyrim. I agree with you though.

slipperypickle

the 2 handed weapons are spot on. if they are to big they will look less realist. Although i wish they made larger shields, and more brutal looking weapons.

Khivas_Carrick

But if the weapons are more brutal looking, they won't match your ideal of realism, thus you just defeated your own logic >_>

Seriously, realism is one thing, but if that were the case, why are there animal-folk, giant spiders, undead, werewolves, magic, and other fantasy stuff in general?

I appreciate the art design reigning itself in, that I LOVE, but that doesn't mean all things fun get to be cut out. Some stuff of fantasy should remain, in this case maces and axes being made to be more impressive looking instead of a dinky paperweight.

Not Final Fantasy/Inuyasha/WoW big, but you know, large enough that it's believable that it swings as slow as it does.

Razzak

I just hope they don't change the size of 2H weapons to those gigantic proportions that you can see in certain games.

kongkim

Its all fine as it is

Khivas_Carrick

Razzak wrote: »

I just hope they don't change the size of 2H weapons to those gigantic proportions that you can see in certain games.

My sentiments as well.