Really 1.1 Sec cast time on snipe,lethal arrow , focused aim?

Davadin

woodsro wrote: »

I laugh at Lethal Arrow now.

Radiant Magelight counters it...I can survive it even in Purple Vet 14 seven pieces of LA...it won't even dent half my HP bar.

Radiant Magelight rank IV reduces all stealth attack damage by 57%, have 7 pieces of Impenetrable on your Armor and Snipe and its morphs will never kill you. Snipe is at its best from stealth, Radiant Magelight reduces most of its damage and is a perfect counter.

Also all your allies/party members close to you also receive the 57% stealth damage reduction bonus, so it won't work on your friends either. Some say RML is bugged, it wasn't for me...it worked consistently for me last night for 2+ hours, I was never 1 shotted in the 18 snipe attempts against me...in fact its damage was drastically reduced.

I won't even go into Cyrodiil now without Radiant Magelight, and also helps me see stealthy folks too

that the same morphs that gives you 20% crit?

Cody

Thechemicals wrote: »

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Cody wrote: »

you cant see them because they are hitting you from stealth, NOT because they are spamming cloak.

now, the 1.1 sec cast time is a bit much, I agree.

Actually they are. The routine is: initial attack is snipe then they quickly use shadow cloak and continue these attacks until they cant shadow cloak anymore. The counter is to have mage light on both loadouts and also have a way to close a 35 meter distance in less than 2 seconds.

Night Blades arent warriors or fighters. They are gankers or assassins. This idea is cool until you have 15 bow snipers hitting you all at once. I dont worry about it because im a reflecting DK but my friend that a girl just flat out dies. Snipe shouldnt be so cheap but im definately reaping the rewards by using Snipe myself followed by crit rush.

if you use snipe, THEN use cloak, like you describe, you will break your own cloak by the damage you cause unless you wait until AFTER it hits.

I was also(back when I played PvP) fond if using snipe then critical charge. was good fun:)

MormondPayne_EP

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

yea its basically the stamina version of Crystal Fragments

Except that it is crystal fragments from stealth, unseen, and you cant animation cancel like you can for bow...

Snipe > Heavy Attack > Poison Arrow > etc etc

Ifthir_ESO

Entire game seems to be stealth>range now.

RinaldoGandolphi

Davadin wrote: »

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woodsro wrote: »

I laugh at Lethal Arrow now.

Radiant Magelight counters it...I can survive it even in Purple Vet 14 seven pieces of LA...it won't even dent half my HP bar.

Radiant Magelight rank IV reduces all stealth attack damage by 57%, have 7 pieces of Impenetrable on your Armor and Snipe and its morphs will never kill you. Snipe is at its best from stealth, Radiant Magelight reduces most of its damage and is a perfect counter.

Also all your allies/party members close to you also receive the 57% stealth damage reduction bonus, so it won't work on your friends either. Some say RML is bugged, it wasn't for me...it worked consistently for me last night for 2+ hours, I was never 1 shotted in the 18 snipe attempts against me...in fact its damage was drastically reduced.

I won't even go into Cyrodiil now without Radiant Magelight, and also helps me see stealthy folks too

that the same morphs that gives you 20% crit?

No its the other Morph.

Inner Light = 20% crit

Radiant Magelight = 10% crit + 57% stealth damage reduction bonus for you and your allies. (at rank IV)

IMO Radiant Magelight is the clear choice for PVP due to the abundance of folks running Impenetrable on their armor, and the stealth damage reduction bonus.

Lava_Croft

Snipe is just ridiculous right now. All you do is run around spamming heals and shields since you don't get the chance to do anything else.

Columba

Nerf it right after you allow arrows to get through reflects and through perma blocking!

kijima

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Are all you Devs in ZoS doing Bath Salts? Lol? What made you think this was a good idea? Im being hit by constant 1,000s every second from nightblades who i cant even see because they spam cloak. Do you want people to quit pvping? You remove forward camps and expect people to want to leave their keeps, just so they die to snipes

I just had a NB almost take a resource alone he just kept spamming lethal arrow on the guards.

LOL, as a bow using NB I can tell you that resources were most definitively soloable pre1.1 second snipes/lethal/focused.

In PvP, using a bow pre 1.52 patch required a little timing and setup, but you actually did more damage, and did it quicker. You'd light up camo hunter, have flawless dawnbreaker on for the 13% and you'd get in behind your victim with snipe, as it flies through the air you'd hit mark target and then you could land a heavy attack and a venom arrow all at the same time when the first snipe finally hits. Boom time!

There was tears about the big hits from glass cannons, so now that it has been nerfed (yes, the shortened cast time was a nerf with that play style) what it means is that lethal has become the new crushing shock, or impulse, or flame lash spamming skill.

There will be many salty tears to come methinks.

Subtomik

the removal of a dead zone is what I dont like. I find myself getting CC'd and sniped point blank in 1vx situations were a main survival tool for healers was to LOS your threats and force them to reacquire you, now a few can just sit on you and fear/snipe. The second you are out of stam and get feared you might as well put a fork in it.

as for the bow and almost COD style playstyle? meh. This build type always attracts the wanna be assassins. They want to play a MMO were other players are the equivalent to the NPC's at a resource node. Sitting by the flag all upset but cant actually do anything to fight back. This is why they cried when they jumped someone from stealth and didnt instantly kill them, and why when most of them do that they run away and throw a hissy fit when everyone started carrying detect potions for them. Reminds me of preparation rogues in WoW.

Sure there are some great NB's/bow users who have made the class and weapon work since the beginning, but now because someone can sit there and shoot unmolested at people from 60+ meters you are going to see tons of it, especially with the lack of FC's and people not wanting to die.

they will run around, snipe people on horses and continue to run away. Do the normal counters, impen/pots etc. Laugh and Laugh like I do as I pot detect pots and watch them flee in vein and cut down over and over.

Aeratus

Draxys wrote: »

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Aeratus wrote: »

I don't see a major problem. Archers are still as squishy as ever. So it is ok that they are doing more damage than they used to.

archers being squishy literally has no impact on the situation because they do 1k+ in a split second without ever being seen

Sure, they are deadly in stealth, but this has not changed since 1.5, because they were already deadly in stealth. And outside of stealth, they are still squishy, so this also has not change since 1.5.

I've only had the chance to play a little bit of pvp since the patch. But I haven't had too much trouble with archers. They have dps but low suitability, so on the whole not unbalanced compared to ranged casters.

Columba

once arrows can get through permablocking and reflective skills, we can discuss bows.

PlagueMonk

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you are < 35 meters from a castle, you better hold the block skill because you will be hit by multiple lethal arrows.

"But my stamina is so low because I dumped everything into magicka!!!"

Guess you had better consider giving up your glass cannon build in favor of something a bit more balanced and survivable. Imagine that, a REASON to have some stamina, go figure.

Rylana

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Are all you Devs in ZoS doing Bath Salts? Lol? What made you think this was a good idea? Im being hit by constant 1,000s every second from nightblades who i cant even see because they spam cloak. Do you want people to quit pvping? You remove forward camps and expect people to want to leave their keeps, just so they die to snipes

I just had a NB almost take a resource alone he just kept spamming lethal arrow on the guards.

Ive been able to solo resources on my bow nightblade since forever, where have you been?

Rylana

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

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suycyco wrote: »

Are you aware that the snipe has also a 5% dps nerf, and the stealth attack has an approximatly 20% nerf also?
Just saying.

AND ARE YOU AWARE IT STILL HITS FOR OVER 1000S?

1728 on my top lethal arrow tonight.

mhm.

Also radiant magelight guy - I dont need to stealth attack to kill you, poison injection is so ungodly sexy right now for just flat out deeps spamming people, id laugh at someone trying to stop me from stealthing them. Youre almost better off just taking the 1.7k snipe, because if that fails youre going to be so full of poison dots for 350-400 that youre gonna wish youd just fell over in the first place. THAT has no cast time.

Also vs werewolves its just patently absurd how much damage it does, especially below 50% health.

Soulac

Well I spam sap essence to take a resource solo..

Back to Snipe:
Snipe is rly strong now, but did u try to dmg a heavy armor S&B tank with immovable or any other armor buffing skills?

If I fight a Archer I just block, dodge or use cloak against snipes.
You're able to interrupt Snipe btw, so charge to him if u see the animation.

Maybe you get hitted once with high dmg, but not twice if you react fast.

Columba

lol for some reason, it's been fine to have sorcs and dks to have tank mode and perma invulnerability, but got forbid that a bow user can hurt them once in a while.

Rylana

Soulac wrote: »

Well I spam sap essence to take a resource solo..

Back to Snipe:
Snipe is rly strong now, but did u try to dmg a heavy armor S&B tank with immovable or any other armor buffing skills?

If I fight a Archer I just block, dodge or use cloak against snipes.
You're able to interrupt Snipe btw, so charge to him if u see the animation.

Maybe you get hitted once with high dmg, but not twice if you react fast.

Flag/Tower guards do not have the range of snipe, so i can just plink them all down with snipes. Takes a bit of time, and the flag flip takes like 5 minutes once im on it alone, but it does work.

Just make sure you can solo the roaming mender and/or melee guard when you pull them first.

Koensol

All the gankers seem to do now, is spam their lethal arrow non-stop. They are actually so bad, that when you close up on them, they tear apart like a wet noodle.

Ezareth

I'm still having no problem taking on even 3 trashcan bow users at once because they're are all running around with 2400 hitpoints and are predictable as hell. Bolt escape on top of them, Spam shields, if they get you low spam healing ward, keep block held (on a S&B) and kill them until they start sending you hate tells for killing them constantly. The only time it is really annoying is when they hide behind a bunch of beefy DKs...or NPCs.

The absurd range on the weapon is my only beef. It's bad enough most sorcs took a ~15% damage nerf this patch on top of the 10% damage nerf last patch.

Soulac

RinaldoGandolphi

Rylana wrote: »

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sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

suycyco wrote: »

Are you aware that the snipe has also a 5% dps nerf, and the stealth attack has an approximatly 20% nerf also?
Just saying.

AND ARE YOU AWARE IT STILL HITS FOR OVER 1000S?

1728 on my top lethal arrow tonight.

mhm.

Also radiant magelight guy - I dont need to stealth attack to kill you, poison injection is so ungodly sexy right now for just flat out deeps spamming people, id laugh at someone trying to stop me from stealthing them. Youre almost better off just taking the 1.7k snipe, because if that fails youre going to be so full of poison dots for 350-400 that youre gonna wish youd just fell over in the first place. THAT has no cast time.

Also vs werewolves its just patently absurd how much damage it does, especially below 50% health.

Haha funny....

First Radiant Magelight is NOT about finding you, that's just an added bonus. , its about reducing your sneak damage by 56% you will NEVER hit me for more then 850 damage at best (its usually around 750) with snipe...trust me...i was sniped over 25 times last night, and not a one of them killed me or even put a dent...it was like a annoying fly that needs to be swatted. Also every one that tried to use that Snipe + Poison Injection nonsense last night found me looking down at their corpse.

56% of 1728 = 967 - armor and spell resists puts it in the 750-800 ballpark with Radiant Magelight...i got around 3400+ HP...good luck with that...

Secondly, any player worth his salt will run Efficient Purge on 1 of his/her bars....So your poison damage isn't going to do much, you would have to be blind to not see your character with an ozzing puke looking green around him, at which Efficent Purge removes it instantly for a dirt cheap cost.(while you waste all your stamina spamming Poison Injection and Snipe)

Do you really think a good sorc going to stand there, let alone in range and let you shoot that at them? over and over LOL!

Not to mention BE allows me to get out of range instantly, or close the distance with you in the blink of an eye, with Streak damaging you and stunning you to boot with a very good chance of Streak procing CF instant cast nuke for 50% less cost, that heals me to boot which is a death sentence for the archer, as thats a knockdown nuke, followed by Velicious Curse timebomb, and Mages Wrath spam to keep the 4 sec 20% explosion proc on you till Curse explodes, all the while this probably procs 1 or 2 more CF..yup....not going to end well for the archer. Oh and by this point RML keeps you from using any Shadow Cloak, invisibility effects/potions or stealth because "I see you" which = me staring at whats left of archer's corpse.


So don't listen to this guy about Radiant Magelight, if you have Radiant Magelight and your tired of getting sniped, run it.

I saw a lot of Sorcs/Templars running Radiant Magelight last night, more then I have ever seen (They must have read the posts of me and a few others on here), and I also saw them surviving Snipe attempts and eating bow users for breakfast. Quite literally last night the RML running Sorcs and Templars were playing mop up duty on gank archers last night...they were were tearing though them like a giant chewed them up and spit them out...

So keep that Radiant Magelight going folks!

Psilent

Columba wrote: »

once arrows can get through permablocking and reflective skills, we can discuss bows.

The best part about being a DK bow user, the ability to hit other DK's with Lethal Arrow when they use scales.

1. Shoot Lethal Arrow
2. Pop scales
3. Watch your arrow reflect back to you
4. Watch it reflect off you and go back to the DK. Since projectiles can only be reflected twice, even if the DK refreshes his scales the arrow bypasses them and hits the DK. Killed several DK's yesterday doing this.

Columba

Sorcs seem to think that only they should have decent ranged damage. Again, 75%+ of my bow shots are blocked or reflected. Reduce that, then we can talk. Until then L2P.

MrGhosty

I don't think you can really gauge a weapon's performance within the first days of actual use. It's a new "buffed thing" so most are going to hop on that gravy train to ride it for all it's worth. I will hold my judgement back until a couple weeks have passed and people have had the time to tune their builds and armor sets to combat this new threat and we can see how it performs then.

Ezareth

I think this picture sums up Cyrodiil pretty nicely.

Agrippa_Invisus

I'm just really not seeing the issues with Archers / Bow users that others are having.

It helps to have Reflective Scales, yes, but there needed to be a downside for the glass cannon LA wearers. There has to be some survivability issue related to that build and bow helps enforce that.

I know of people wearing pieces of HA, set up for good block abilities, and using shields that are just walking through multiple snipe attempts. I tried it myself last night. I had three archers hitting me repeatedly at one point with little chance of actually killing me.

None of the LA wearers in the group could get anywhere near the resource tower those archers were in. I stood right in front of it.

It really is time for some balance changes to get people away from the stick waving robe wearer meta.

Columba

I am a medium armor archer. I rarely die to archers. Listen for the snipe sound and block, dodge and stay mobile. Not rocket science. Yes, reflects negates bows completely.

Agrippa_Invisus

Columba wrote: »

I am a medium armor archer. I rarely die to archers. Listen for the snipe sound and block, dodge and stay mobile. Not rocket science. Yes, reflects negates bows completely.

Never deal in absolutes.

Volley retains its complete effectiveness against reflects.

Ezareth

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I'm just really not seeing the issues with Archers / Bow users that others are having.

It helps to have Reflective Scales, yes, but there needed to be a downside for the glass cannon LA wearers. There has to be some survivability issue related to that build and bow helps enforce that.

I know of people wearing pieces of HA, set up for good block abilities, and using shields that are just walking through multiple snipe attempts. I tried it myself last night. I had three archers hitting me repeatedly at one point with little chance of actually killing me.

None of the LA wearers in the group could get anywhere near the resource tower those archers were in. I stood right in front of it.

It really is time for some balance changes to get people away from the stick waving robe wearer meta.

Please explain to me what a "Glass Cannon" LA wearer is. Do you realize how pathetically *WEAK* magic damage is right now? Do you even realize every good Sorc in the game has lost 25% off the top of their damage over the last 2 patches? This isn't counting the fact that we are completely countered by a single ability that *EVERY* class has access to.

Sorc ability damage is the most preventable, mitigatable and reflectable damage of any class in the game right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining as I have the skill to counter this and I'm using a shield. You realize that the buff to bows has pretty much made it so that *Everyone* who wants to be successful in cyrodiil that isn't relying on bows and stealth to fire from safety must have a shield (or reflective scales) though? Hardly what I'd call balance.

It's easy for a DK to say this change is fine because you do have a guaranteed fallback option and I don't begrudge you that. But there are many other classes and playstyles that aren't DKs who don't have a fallback option and the absurd range of bows means the guys who aren't hiding behind a shield are all attracting arrows like pincushions.

Agrippa_Invisus

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

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Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I'm just really not seeing the issues with Archers / Bow users that others are having.

It helps to have Reflective Scales, yes, but there needed to be a downside for the glass cannon LA wearers. There has to be some survivability issue related to that build and bow helps enforce that.

I know of people wearing pieces of HA, set up for good block abilities, and using shields that are just walking through multiple snipe attempts. I tried it myself last night. I had three archers hitting me repeatedly at one point with little chance of actually killing me.

None of the LA wearers in the group could get anywhere near the resource tower those archers were in. I stood right in front of it.

It really is time for some balance changes to get people away from the stick waving robe wearer meta.

Please explain to me what a "Glass Cannon" LA wearer is. Do you realize how pathetically *WEAK* magic damage is right now? Do you even realize every good Sorc in the game has lost 25% off the top of their damage over the last 2 patches? This isn't counting the fact that we are completely countered by a single ability that *EVERY* class has access to.

Sorc ability damage is the most preventable, mitigatable and reflectable damage of any class in the game right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining as I have the skill to counter this and I'm using a shield. You realize that the buff to bows has pretty much made it so that *Everyone* who wants to be successful in cyrodiil that isn't relying on bows and stealth to fire from safety must have a shield (or reflective scales) though? Hardly what I'd call balance.

It's easy for a DK to say this change is fine because you do have a guaranteed fallback option and I don't begrudge you that. But there are many other classes and playstyles that aren't DKs who don't have a fallback option and the absurd range of bows means the guys who aren't hiding behind a shield are all attracting arrows like pincushions.

Sharpened and the various spell resist penetration abilities were, quite literally, allowing the entire Spell Resistance stat to be ignored. Spell resist 2000 and 0 were essentially the same thing prior to the first of the changes. This was not a sustainable state of game balance.

People who devote gearing, skill points, and skill slots towards increasing their passive defenses should have that rewarded by having them actually be meaningful in game.

It's not just Sorcs who lost damage from magicka / spell based abilities, it's everyone, and thank God for that, because TTK is still absurdly low in this game.

And to define a glass cannon build -- it's a build / setup that focuses on killing the opponent over defending itself. Light Armor is one of the more common traits of such a build, discarding physical defense for cheaper magicka costs, higher spell penetration, quicker magicka regen -- etc etc.

It's not as if sorcs can't strap on a set of Heavy Armor, a shield, and then swap to a resto staff to toss Healing Ward on themselves for some damage shielding. And if you do that, you pay the price of lowered offensive abilities -- as you should.

And the moment you start pulling on the robe, there needs to be the chance that you'll have to deal with the consequences of being weaker against physical damage dealing abilities.

Like Lethal Arrow.