Why did bow get buffed?

Lava_Croft

Gooey wrote: »

Only DKs can stop the spamming of lethal arrow/focused aim, it's not really fair to sorcs, templars, and nightblades.

Except for this. DK's have a skill that is especially funny against archers, but every class has access to things like Immovable to stop you from being stunned every other second and Purge to get rid of the stupid Mark Target, Poison and that white column you get after being hit with whatever Snipe morph. Annoying, stupid gameplay? Yes. Helpess? No.

Columba

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Gooey wrote: »

Only DKs can stop the spamming of lethal arrow/focused aim, it's not really fair to sorcs, templars, and nightblades.

Except for this. DK's have a skill that is especially funny against archers, but every class has access to things like Immovable to stop you from being stunned every other second and Purge to get rid of the stupid Mark Target, Poison and that white column you get after being hit with whatever Snipe morph. Annoying, stupid gameplay? Yes. Helpess? No.

Every class gets block and dodge. learn them, live them, love them

Lava_Croft

Columba wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Gooey wrote: »

Only DKs can stop the spamming of lethal arrow/focused aim, it's not really fair to sorcs, templars, and nightblades.

Except for this. DK's have a skill that is especially funny against archers, but every class has access to things like Immovable to stop you from being stunned every other second and Purge to get rid of the stupid Mark Target, Poison and that white column you get after being hit with whatever Snipe morph. Annoying, stupid gameplay? Yes. Helpess? No.

Every class gets block and dodge. learn them, live them, love them

Currently PvP in Cyrodiil is either firing arrows at others or constantly holding block, dodging and spamming shields while barely being able to do anything because of the never-ending barrage of arrows being fired at you. Making nearly identical comments in several different threads concerning this subject while offering no real insight beyond 'block, dodge, suck it, [insert random semi-angry comment from previously horribad bow user here] just shows you aren't being really objective about this.

JonzzLonewolf

Fillem_Fulla wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Show me a video of player with bow spec in trials pre 1.5.that is why it was buffed.

It isn't impossible averaging a minimum of 700 dps with a stamina bow build pre 1.5. And no, I'm not talking about aoe DPS or 10s fights. If you haven't seem one yet, it means you're probably regularly joining the same group of FOTM dpsers.

Bow already has one spammable skill. I don't understand why there should be another.

Palidon

Bow users finally get competitive and the complainers come out of the wood work. It's about time Stamina uses got a break. Not to mention there are quite a few counters to Bow attacks so I suggest those of you complaining learn to use them.

Jeth

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Brangwen wrote: »

It's made playing in Cyrodiil much less enjoyable(I'm trying not to use strong language here...). Nerfing stealth damage doesn't do much when people can basically now spam lethal arrow in open combat.

Zos Devs are idiots. Who ever thought up this new cast time needs to be fired ASAP.


Swear i think they hired Ghostcrawler for the bowss.

I left WoW cause of the idiocy that GC posted. Basic math escaped him/her/it. Player based models of PTR destroyed his theories. Clear he didn't actually play the game.

martinhpb16_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Agreed. At the moment all I can do is spam Immovable, Healing Ward and Purge, hoping I have some resources left to actually do combat against the ungodly amount of archers.

I also recognize that it's hard to judge the real impact of the bow buffs because there's just so many archers. Even pre-1.5 having this many archers would have been awful.

As opposed too so many zappy porting wand wavers and indestructo bashing bird-men ?

martinhpb16_ESO

Gooey wrote: »

Yeah, tons of dks in my guilds are now rolling bow until it gets fixed. No point to not use something that does 1200 dmg per cast with 1.1 second cast time and also gives a healing debuff.

Easymoders

Voodoo

<-- ok that's it!
buffs on the house!

Lava_Croft

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Agreed. At the moment all I can do is spam Immovable, Healing Ward and Purge, hoping I have some resources left to actually do combat against the ungodly amount of archers.

I also recognize that it's hard to judge the real impact of the bow buffs because there's just so many archers. Even pre-1.5 having this many archers would have been awful.

As opposed too so many zappy porting wand wavers and indestructo bashing bird-men ?

You only mentioned half of the available classes now.

martinhpb16_ESO

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Crushing shocks 800-1k dps - cast time instant ! on my NB

If I could do that with a bow i would be using it in trials.

Varicite

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

On a side note, its a blessing for DK. Just get scale up 100% of the time, and you get non stop free kills

Saw a bit of that last night on Alessia bridge, a few archers with me up top of the bridge, they were shooting at flappy flappy DK's.

I looked around a few moments later and I was standing around little white crosses everywhere. Pretty funny.

Yeah that was most likely Dragon Fire Scale, it's called, STOP attacking if you see Flappy Flappy and if you let one fly, then hold Block after that count to 4 and let the arrows fly until you see the Flappy Flappy again..

Posts like the ones in this thread make me so glad my archer is a DK....

martinhpb16_ESO

Minnesinger wrote: »

For single target damage bow is very good. The use of bow will never be as popular as destro because of its lack of AoE. I wanna see a zerg running into a keep spamming poison arrow or snipe. It has its advantages and limitations. To me a bow user is a reminiscent of a sniper. Kill someone and get lost fast. Hide and seek.

High dps.

Yup amd if you dont kill that target quickly its usually curtains.

For every successful snipe I get with bow, solo and in an enemy zone, I easily die as many times.

Merlight

Cody wrote: »

I agree that 1.1 sec cast time may be a bit much, but the attack CANT be "spammed in open combat" if you use interrupts on them

I think open is the keyword here. Out in the wild you sure have options (though you now have to use them much more often, which for me means resource problems). But once you're pushed in a tight defensive position, you're pretty much screwed. You can't get from snipers' range (obstacles are usually scarce in places worth defending), while they're safe beyond yours. Faster snipe only made this worse, and the number of people who started spamming it speaks for itself.

Varicite

Merlight wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

I agree that 1.1 sec cast time may be a bit much, but the attack CANT be "spammed in open combat" if you use interrupts on them

I think open is the keyword here. Out in the wild you sure have options (though you now have to use them much more often, which for me means resource problems). But once you're pushed in a tight defensive position, you're pretty much screwed. You can't get from snipers' range (obstacles are usually scarce in places worth defending), while they're safe beyond yours. Faster snipe only made this worse, and the number of people who started spamming it speaks for itself.

The new Snipe is designed to be the go-to damage dealer of the bow. If people are "spamming" it, then they are doing exactly what ZOS wanted w/ the cast time reduction change.

Couple this w/ the fact that the bow's only "spammable" ability prior to 1.5 was Venom Arrow, which is terrible damage, and of course people are going to be using Snipe as their main damage dealer.

I do find it interesting that prior to 1.5, people saw the stealth damage reduction and said it would be "impossible" to kill anyone after all of the changes. And now here we are just a few days later, and it's "omg everybody is using a bow, it's too good!"

Shield stacking, block-casting, purges, reflects, etc all still exist as ways to counter bows, no?

A Snipe-spamming Archer is basically just a crystal frag spamming Sorc w/ less defenses and less CC. Deal w/ them accordingly.

Domander

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

Gooey

Considering that impulse was nerfed and the only way to get owned by wall of elements is to stand in it,

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

So, you're comparing a 6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200 and a 130 per 1 second tick frontal aoe to a single targett that casts 1200 DPS every 1.1 seconds.

Varicite

Gooey wrote: »

Considering that impulse was nerfed and the only way to get owned by wall of elements is to stand in it,

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

So, you're comparing a 6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200 and a 130 per 1 second tick frontal aoe to a single targett that casts 1200 DPS every 1.1 seconds.

I think the word you're looking for is "damage", not DPS.

1200 damage on a 1.1 second cast is actually 1091 DPS. : P

I agree w/ Domander, why would you not compare Snipe to the other ranged casted ability that hits hard, Crystal Shards?

There is nothing that the Destro staff has that is comparable to Snipe for burst damage, but the Destro staff most certainly has better DPS over time as well as better AoE capability, better sustain through Elemental Drain, similar CC capability, and of course synergizes w/ builds utilizing class abilities heavily much better.

People need to stop comparing abilities in a vacuum. It does nothing for their argument, let alone their credibility.

Ezareth

Varicite wrote: »

Gooey wrote: »

Considering that impulse was nerfed and the only way to get owned by wall of elements is to stand in it,

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

So, you're comparing a 6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200 and a 130 per 1 second tick frontal aoe to a single targett that casts 1200 DPS every 1.1 seconds.

I think the word you're looking for is "damage", not DPS.

1200 damage on a 1.1 second cast is actually 1091 DPS. : P

I agree w/ Domander, why would you not compare Snipe to the other ranged casted ability that hits hard, Crystal Shards?

There is nothing that the Destro staff has that is comparable to Snipe for burst damage, but the Destro staff most certainly has better DPS over time as well as better AoE capability, better sustain through Elemental Drain, similar CC capability, and of course synergizes w/ builds utilizing class abilities heavily much better.

People need to stop comparing abilities in a vacuum. It does nothing for their argument, let alone their credibility.

I wish to god you people would stop saying Crystal shards hits hard. Even as Emperor with 150 spell damage and 3400 magicka my crystal shards still *hit* for under 1K....and that was before the Sharpened nerf when it actually caused you to hit for bonus damage.

Columba

nope. get hit with crystal shard all the time for >1000 even with 2000 spell resist.

Ezareth

Columba wrote: »

nope. get hit with crystal shard all the time for >1000 even with 2000 spell resist.

Then you were crit, not hit. Apples to Oranges.

Try running some Impenetrable.

Lava_Croft

Columba wrote: »

nope. get hit with crystal shard all the time for >1000 even with 2000 spell resist.

That's pretty amazing since i run full LA with about the same spell resistance and Crystal Fragments rarely hits me for more than 800dmg.

I call bullfeces.

Itoq

Bows, especially two or more together, have been strong for awhile in pvp - kind of like stam builds in general - they can lack a bit in long fights and lack some utility solo but two or archers following each other's lead are very strong.

No more FC's combined with recent bow buffs now have a lot of players finding more reason to be at max range (plus range from set bonuses) when attacking.

Even lightning splash could be occasionally somewhat useful (although lacking the range and raw dps) if you could get three plus players to cast it together.

Domander

Gooey wrote: »

Considering that impulse was nerfed and the only way to get owned by wall of elements is to stand in it,

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

So, you're comparing a 6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200 and a 130 per 1 second tick frontal aoe to a single targett that casts 1200 DPS every 1.1 seconds.

6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200? what the hek are you talking about?

and yes, if you want to compare weapon lines, then compare them. The quoted comment was asking for a destruction ability that did that much damage, it's situationally different, but how long have people been whining about impulse?

Domander

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Gooey wrote: »

Considering that impulse was nerfed and the only way to get owned by wall of elements is to stand in it,

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

So, you're comparing a 6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200 and a 130 per 1 second tick frontal aoe to a single targett that casts 1200 DPS every 1.1 seconds.

I think the word you're looking for is "damage", not DPS.

1200 damage on a 1.1 second cast is actually 1091 DPS. : P

I agree w/ Domander, why would you not compare Snipe to the other ranged casted ability that hits hard, Crystal Shards?

There is nothing that the Destro staff has that is comparable to Snipe for burst damage, but the Destro staff most certainly has better DPS over time as well as better AoE capability, better sustain through Elemental Drain, similar CC capability, and of course synergizes w/ builds utilizing class abilities heavily much better.

People need to stop comparing abilities in a vacuum. It does nothing for their argument, let alone their credibility.

I wish to god you people would stop saying Crystal shards hits hard. Even as Emperor with 150 spell damage and 3400 magicka my crystal shards still *hit* for under 1K....and that was before the Sharpened nerf when it actually caused you to hit for bonus damage.

We're comparing crits to crits and hits to hits, I don't think snipe *hits* for over 1000 damage either, unless you're a werewolf vs lethal arrow with no poison resist. You should also remember that bow doesn't normally have the advantage of going through armor/resists that comes with wearing light armor.

Nightblades have a couple advantages when it comes to the bow that can make the damage increase. They can mark target which will drop your armor to nothing (though many players already help bow users by wearing light armor), and they can also push their crit high enough to bypass impenetrable, if they burn magicka to do it. That's their thing though, so people should stop comparing that to "bow" in general.

Varicite

Domander wrote: »

We're comparing crits to crits and hits to hits

This.

If we're talking about 1.2k Snipes w/out stealth, then we are talking about crits.

Crystal Shards is the best analog for a ranged casted ability that crits for 1.2k+.

Ezareth

Domander wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Gooey wrote: »

Considering that impulse was nerfed and the only way to get owned by wall of elements is to stand in it,

Domander wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Name a destro staff 1.2 second cast time skill that does 1200 dps..one cast.

Impulse with multiple targets, and it's an instant attack.

I'd compare it to 1.2k crystal fragments, but if you want to compare it to destruction ok. Destruction has impulse and wall, plus crushing shock is pretty nice.

Show me a bow ability that does anything close to what impulse does.

also

1200 dps... whatever.

If you're talking pvp, you'd have to crit consistantly, along with a lot of stacked buffs.......but people don't crit consistantly in pvp, though a Nightblade can do it by burning magicka, but that's kind of their thing.

So, you're comparing a 6 man 36 radius attack that hits for 200 and a 130 per 1 second tick frontal aoe to a single targett that casts 1200 DPS every 1.1 seconds.

I think the word you're looking for is "damage", not DPS.

1200 damage on a 1.1 second cast is actually 1091 DPS. : P

I agree w/ Domander, why would you not compare Snipe to the other ranged casted ability that hits hard, Crystal Shards?

There is nothing that the Destro staff has that is comparable to Snipe for burst damage, but the Destro staff most certainly has better DPS over time as well as better AoE capability, better sustain through Elemental Drain, similar CC capability, and of course synergizes w/ builds utilizing class abilities heavily much better.

People need to stop comparing abilities in a vacuum. It does nothing for their argument, let alone their credibility.

I wish to god you people would stop saying Crystal shards hits hard. Even as Emperor with 150 spell damage and 3400 magicka my crystal shards still *hit* for under 1K....and that was before the Sharpened nerf when it actually caused you to hit for bonus damage.

We're comparing crits to crits and hits to hits, I don't think snipe *hits* for over 1000 damage either, unless you're a werewolf vs lethal arrow with no poison resist. You should also remember that bow doesn't normally have the advantage of going through armor/resists that comes with wearing light armor.

Nightblades have a couple advantages when it comes to the bow that can make the damage increase. They can mark target which will drop your armor to nothing (though many players already help bow users by wearing light armor), and they can also push their crit high enough to bypass impenetrable, if they burn magicka to do it. That's their thing though, so people should stop comparing that to "bow" in general.

Bow already goes through far more resist than 7/7 LA gives you. Cyrodiil gives you 300 pierce rating for armor. Full light armor is under 1k armor even with legendary upgrades. LA is 28% pierce and it doesn't even work that way.

My crystal fragments not as Emp with 2500 Magicka(over softcap) and 129 spell damage(just under softcap) has a tooltip for 741 and hits for just under 700 with the maximum penetration possible. I have yet to be *hit* with an unblocked snipe for less than 800.

Snipe is far far more powerful than crystal frags in allmost every way.

Vizier

faernaa wrote: »

It's funny to argue about bows just because it can be reflected by scales. Nerf the scales then. There are 3 other classes which don't have flap flap wings.

9/10 players using bow right now and it's *** crazy.

No. Your just now not able to shrug off bow fire like you did before. There's the same people with bows out there. The pretty much all had them before the patch. It's just now they are actually a threat as they should be. Before all it was good for was the stealth snipe long shot. As people adjust and it proves too powerful I'm sure Zos will take care of it. Honestly don't think it's too powerful right now. NB Ambush, concealed weapon with a couple funnel health is killing faster. Sorcs still dps me down fast as hell.

Bow is getting to where it should be and folks are just going to have to adjust.

Helm49

Vizier wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

It's funny to argue about bows just because it can be reflected by scales. Nerf the scales then. There are 3 other classes which don't have flap flap wings.

9/10 players using bow right now and it's *** crazy.

No. Your just now not able to shrug off bow fire like you did before. There's the same people with bows out there. The pretty much all had them before the patch. It's just now they are actually a threat as they should be. Before all it was good for was the stealth snipe long shot. As people adjust and it proves too powerful I'm sure Zos will take care of it. Honestly don't think it's too powerful right now. NB Ambush, concealed weapon with a couple funnel health is killing faster. Sorcs still dps me down fast as hell.

Bow is getting to where it should be and folks are just going to have to adjust.

Agree with this.
It was fun to watch 12 archers destroy a 12 man bomb group last night on Thornblade. They didn't know which way to run.
Bowmen where the laughing stock of the pvp community, not wanted in the major guilds. Get light armour and a staff I was told.
About time we got a level playing field.

Muizer

Palidon wrote: »

Bow users finally get competitive and the complainers come out of the wood work. It's about time Stamina uses got a break.

Bow users are given a break. Melee stam buildings aren't. Just to be clear.

Edit, though there may have been a rather sneaky buff to 2H and DW as well. I'm now doing as much damage with DW at level I Flurry as I was at level IV before it was reset and now the damage is rising with xp again. Hmm