Justice System - Not Looking Forward To It

Dagoth_Rac

If the Justice System is just the occasional invisible thief who kills from the shadow and then disappears, that will be pretty cool! But if towns are full of criminal PC gangs spamming Impulse and enforcer PC gangs right behind them spamming Impulse and every town turns into Cyrodiil, with lag and crashes and the screen lit up like Christmas so you can't even see where anything is, that will be really, really annoying for the 90% of players who do not opt-in.

Will only a handful of random NPCs that you cannot talk to be killable? Like just some generic "Lion Guard" and "Mages Guild Adept" will be targetable? Or will it be open season on every NPC except for like Queen Ayrenn and the banker? Will I go to vend some loot to a Clothier NPC just to have someone kill the Clothier NPC as soon as I walk up to them? Then kill the Blacksmith NPC as soon as I walk up to the Blacksmith NPC? Will I have to spend 30 minutes just searching for a vendor that is not dead or does not get ganked when I walk up to them?

I think the Justice System will be fine if done right. But there are so many ways this could go wrong that it is critical to point out the potential for problems as soon as possible and as often as possible. Testing this is going to be as much thought experiment as anything else. Griefers and organized criminal zerg trains will not be on the PTS.

Xalian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6QVPEEev2Y

I like it. It's going to make it more like an Elder Scrolls game:)

starkerealm

Varicite wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

As others have pointed out, the dye introduction was bad with all the griefers. I can't imagine people will be better with the JS.

Also, ZOS responded pretty quickly to the griefing at the dye tables, and you don't really see this behavior anymore.

I think I missed this, what was happening?

ontheleftcoast

For a while you couldn't see anything but fireworks around the crafting tables as VR toons would stand there casting AoE Impulse, lightning bolts, etc. It was chaotic and impossible to see what your toon's armor was going to look like until you committed to a color and went somewhere else to view it.

apostate9

Nestor wrote: »

Elden Root, Rawkla (sp?), Riften, Windhelm, Rivenspire, Wayrest etc are all quite crowded. There are people firing off the spell shows all the time in those places. You think this is going to get better because they are all of sudden going to go to Daggerfall or Vulkhel Guard or Davons Watch and do all this only in those cities?

Since the gankers now have a reason to go to towns and kill NPCs, they are going to go to the towns and kill NPCs. Where they may not have had a reason before.

I will be standing there wondering why I made the city safe in the first place while all this is going on. Then I will log out and go play another game.

Enjoy. Can I have your stuff?

apostate9

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Anyone who really believes people won't run through towns killing every NPC they can either wasn't here for the opening of the dye stations or has a short memory. Every dye station in every city I visited was plagued with healers spamming heals or someone firing off impulse to purposely screw with people who were trying to dye their gear. In case you were lucky enough to join ESO after Zenimax fixed it...just imagine trying to dye your gear with fireworks exploding in your face. That didn't stop until Zenimax confirmed it was greifing and therefore bannable and managed to isolate the dye stations from game effects once you engage the station. And yes, I reported people for griefing the dye stations.

As I see it opening day of the justice system will have some bored VR players visiting lower level areas and...killing every NPC, guard and low level player that tried to stop them. Because they can. Before anyone says "but surely VR players are more mature and invested in ESO" well it was the VR players who were the biggest culprits of the dye station spam fest we were treated to.

I for one am not looking forward to any aspect of the Justice System.

Oh, the horror.

apostate9

Nestor wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

To steal without being in any danger of detection sounds pretty boring and would be wrong. I am sure there will be spots in the world where someone can steal totally undetected or almost, while at others you need to distract guards, check their patrol routes or similar.

Why do people make towns unsafe? Nobody will ever be able to touch you if you don't want to.
The towns will be as safe for you as they are now.

Sorry guys, had to Watch Kill Bill 2, the fight between two women in the trailer is too epic, especially the eye ball part.

You could sneak around places and steal undetected in the previous games near NPCs. If your Sneak skill was high enough, you could do it right in front of the NPC (which is probably too easy for most people to want) Although in Morrowind you had to have a Sneak skill pretty high up there to be able to do that. Or the Chameleon Ring which I don't think they will add to this game. In this game, if you are in Sneak, as soon as you activate a container, your seen. Or at least the game says you detected, even if there is no NPC in line of sight. This will not support thievery in towns if there are any NPCs around, as you will always be detected stealing. You should be able to sneak around and do things away from NPC sight and get away with it. Otherwise, anyone who steals will get a bounty, and what fun is that?

What irks me the most about the JS is it is bringing an aspect of PvP to the PvE areas. If I wanted to experience PvP, I would be in Cyrodill.

PVP and PVE are clearly meant to be intertwined in this game. And as has been stated 100,000,000 times on these boards already, said PVP will be 100% opt-in. If, (like your fellow carebear) you feel the need to kvetch and moan about the possibility of having to be somewhere in the same zip-code as PVPers...

Heads up: You have no right to be insulated from the horrors of PVP violence, as though it were somehow more violent than PVE violence that you engage in every time you log in. Deal with it.

Or don't, I don't care, but they aren't changing their minds just for you.

themizario

I'm just going to leave this here....

To steal you have to be in stealth. So of you're worried about stealing with auto loot don't be stealthed as you spam E.

You have to be wearing a special tabbard to be opted in to the justice system.

Steal...steal...steal. mail stuff to friend marked for return until you're at the fence then sell...sell....sell.

Welka

Doomsday is nigh! JS is coming!! Run for your lives!

OMG zenimax is implementing one of the most basic TES feature and I am forced to take part! Outrageous!

kevlarto_ESO

Voodoo wrote: »

important NPC cant be killed, quest givers and vendors. so what if a few npc are dead that would give you a one liner anyways..

It makes sense if you walk into someones house (not invited) thats break and entering and taking something (not invited) thats stealing. NO?

Just because this has a small effect on your (OP) material/junk collecting does not mean it should simply not happen. Trust me YOU'LL ADAPT!

This ^^^^
Seems kind of early for a lot of knee jerk reactions, have they even said when this is coming ? Or when the Imperial City will be added, these are huge changes and hopefully will get a good amount of time on the PTS, I think there will still be plenty of places to loot through, with out becoming a criminal, but time will tell.

babylon

Welka wrote: »

OMG zenimax is implementing one of the most basic TES feature and I am forced to take part! Outrageous!

ZOS is implementing one of the most basic TES functions and forcing it to be pvp. Yeah sure, dont have to take part, can just sit there and not do it amirite...maybe everyone else should unsub because a whole basic part of the game is exclusive to one playstyle.

ZOS quick bring player housing out, I'm sure the whole server just can't wait for all the looting and killing and burning of other players' houses down.

Azarath_tiberius

babylon wrote: »

ZOS quick bring player housing out, I'm sure the whole server just can't wait for all the looting and killing and burning of other players' houses down.

Paul Sage said last night (in the ESO stream) that you wont be able to steal from other players. Plus, their comment about player housing is "it 'll take a while", so don't expect that any time soon.

Aenra

worthless, useless thread bump

it is as it is. Unimaginative, non-creative, non-constructive. It is as it is. Let all the complexed, real life achievement-deprived, emotionally unhinged/wanting, immature (i want KILLZZZ) individuals provide their own content.

It's cheap. It has and will continue to work. Because cheap never entailed a lack of audience sadly. On the contrary. It as it is, and as such preferable. Money for nothing. This is what happens when you hire a person that did a PvP MMO (13 years ago) to do your themepark MMO. Today. Deal with it..or if you are like me...try to deal with it..

unsuccesfully i might add..

twistedmonk

I think it's an exciting feature! It is one of the defining game features in the Elder Scrolls series.

It adds a dynamic live event completely player driven to otherwise predictable city life of alts standing around the bank teller or people just passing through town to do their quests/crafting.

Your participation is completely optional. It should have no impact on your game play - except maybe you will notice others around you having fun with the Justice System while you are standing in the street proclaiming the sky is falling.

adriant1978

When I walk my character through downtown Daggerfall I want to feel like I'm in a thriving, generally contented city as it has so far been portrayed in the game, not some kind of exaggerated wild west frontier outpost with outlaws battling cops in the street 24/7. Cyrodiil is a war zone, you expect violence there pretty much all the time, but the in the cities of the other provinces not so much.

I'm not claiming to be some super hardcore roleplayer. I don't make-believe that my character needs to eat three square meals a day, get a good night's sleep, and go to the bathroom. But I do like to feel plausibly immersed in the environment. I like talking to pointless non-quest NPCs, just to hear what they have to say, and feel like I'm that little bit more inside Tamriel and out of the real world. It's going to get pretty hard to feel that way if every time I visit a town there are corpses littering the streets, running battles being fought, and NPCs being ganked left and right before I even get a chance to engage them in conversation.

kongkim

Im looking so much forward to this Love it.

Rune_Relic

adriant1978 wrote: »

When I walk my character through downtown Daggerfall I want to feel like I'm in a thriving, generally contented city as it has so far been portrayed in the game, not some kind of exaggerated wild west frontier outpost with outlaws battling cops in the street 24/7. Cyrodiil is a war zone, you expect violence there pretty much all the time, but the in the cities of the other provinces not so much.

I'm not claiming to be some super hardcore roleplayer. I don't make-believe that my character needs to eat three square meals a day, get a good night's sleep, and go to the bathroom. But I do like to feel plausibly immersed in the environment. I like talking to pointless non-quest NPCs, just to hear what they have to say, and feel like I'm that little bit more inside Tamriel and out of the real world. It's going to get pretty hard to feel that way if every time I visit a town there are corpses littering the streets, running battles being fought, and NPCs being ganked left and right before I even get a chance to engage them in conversation.

Then how about controlling the power of the guards to reflect how law abiding the zone is ? So thieves would get a much easier time in one area than another.

Is this not what everyone kind of expects anyway lore wise ?

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Nestor wrote: »

Hey Akula my point is and always has been that I make the towns safe for the game quests and this JS comes along and makes the towns unsafe. Guess what, I battle the mobs to make the town safe. So, that throws you whole argument out the window.

I removed a flame.

You want to keep making the towns safe? Become an enforcer and root out that guy who just racked up a 10k bounty in your city! C'mon it'll give you something to do and makes it more realistic than 'I solved one immediate threat to your town now you live happily ever after.'

clayandaudrey_ESO

Xalian wrote: »

Will we get arrested now running through the town square naked?

You will be directed by an enforcer to the nearest pole to commence dancing.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

themizario wrote: »

I'm just going to leave this here....

To steal you have to be in stealth. So of you're worried about stealing with auto loot don't be stealthed as you spam E.

You have to be wearing a special tabbard to be opted in to the justice system.

Steal...steal...steal. mail stuff to friend marked for return until you're at the fence then sell...sell....sell.

annnnd bop

Varicite

themizario wrote: »

I'm just going to leave this here....

To steal you have to be in stealth. So of you're worried about stealing with auto loot don't be stealthed as you spam E.

You have to be wearing a special tabbard to be opted in to the justice system.

Steal...steal...steal. mail stuff to friend marked for return until you're at the fence then sell...sell....sell.

I would be extremely surprised if stolen items aren't tagged as "bound" to prevent this kind of gameplay circumvention.

If not, I suppose I'll be benefiting from their negligence since I run 2 accounts and generally mail everything to myself and back when my bags get full.

Elsonso

adriant1978 wrote: »

When I walk my character through downtown Daggerfall I want to feel like I'm in a thriving, generally contented city as it has so far been portrayed in the game, not some kind of exaggerated wild west frontier outpost with outlaws battling cops in the street 24/7. Cyrodiil is a war zone, you expect violence there pretty much all the time, but the in the cities of the other provinces not so much.

This is the exact opposite of my stance.

I am worried that people will get bored with the Justice System because it has too many limits.

Frankly, I am tired of the happy contented world. It is absolutely unbelievable that every character in the game is Lawful. With the armies fighting in Cyrodiil and Molag Bal around every corner, it is inconceivable that the baser elements of society would just stand by idly instead of taking advantage of the distraction. The contented cities need to be more gritty and much less contented. Strife is a breeding ground for crime. Without it, it is all just too saccharine.

All of the cities in Tamriel need to be more vibrant at all levels of society. There need to be criminals around, both NPC and PC, and they need to be stealing things and killing people. A band of PC Outlaws should be able to seize some village, loot it, and kill everything, right down to the last chicken. Brazen Outlaw guilds should fight over cities and villages to see who will have control. There should be a reason for Outlaws to 'own' cities and villages. Outlaws flagged for PVP should be able to fight and kill each other in a battle to be the top Outlaw. I am hoping that Lawful is not a limit that Outlaws have. It would be terrible if they all had to follow some Outlaw Code that enforced Honor Amongst Thieves.

There is an entire group of people who want to play more open world PVP in the form of Cops and Robbers. People who want to be the Tamriel version of Al Capone and Elliot Ness, even if unofficially.

People who are not participating in the Justice System should be aware that all of this is happening. They should not be punted into some happy phase like none of this exists.

If Zenimax does this right, for the Justice System is no small task and it will greatly annoy people at each extreme, we should be able to have open world PVP between Outlaws and Enforcers and keep the inconvenience and delay to a minimum for those choosing not to participate.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Hopefully, people will get bored killing NPCs after a while

WOW's experience is they won't.

AssaultLemming

Personally I look forward to the towns and cities being more dynamic and less static. Nothing ever changes currently, everyone is frozen in a single moment, it's dull. When you are complaining that you will be affected by the system because you have to see other people using it you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Elsonso

What would be really different would be if the murdered NPCs did not just appear out of thin air on station, but spawned in the world at a nearby door and then walked to their station.

AssaultLemming

By the way this poll indicates we may see a nice balance between good and evil here.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135239/justice-system-will-your-main-choose-outlaw-or-enforcer-or-neither/p1

ArcaneBlue

I just want to know how the justice system's gonna affect provisioning.
if looting barrels/crates etc in town is gonna be "stealing"... then will I have to look in delves/dungeons for ingredients?

yeah I know some ingredients can be bought but many cannot be just bought from the vendors.

this I'd like to know...

starkerealm

Aenra wrote: »

This is what happens when you hire a person that did a PvP MMO (13 years ago) to do your themepark MMO. Today.

Yeah, though the background has nothing to do with it. You don't think Watchdogs has it's weird PvP mechanics because of PvP in MMOs 13 years ago, do you?

There's another reason that games are chasing after limited, systemic, PvP mixed into PvE now. It's follow the leader, but, it's not chasing after DAoC, and in this, ESO's actually being kind of creative.

starkerealm

SnarkyQB wrote: »

I just want to know how the justice system's gonna affect provisioning.
if looting barrels/crates etc in town is gonna be "stealing"... then will I have to look in delves/dungeons for ingredients?

yeah I know some ingredients can be bought but many cannot be just bought from the vendors.

this I'd like to know...

Provisioning is, supposedly, getting an overhaul that will push the primary harvesting nodes for it out into the wilderness, rather than forcing you to loot around town. It's also (again), supposedly, going to halve the ingredient list.

Either way, we're supposed to get this before the Justice system drops.

kijima

Am I the only person in the world that once the justice system is in, will go onto a second floor balcony in Auridon and start picking off random NPC's with snipe to see what the outcome is?