Justice System - Not Looking Forward To It

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · October 2014

After watching the Comic Con video with the ESO developers discussion on upcoming changes, I have to say, I'm not looking forward to the new Justice System.

To get anywhere in this game you have to devote a lot of time and work and I see this system just slowing me down. Right now I can have auto loot on and can work my way through buildings and dungeons quickly and sort everything out later when my bags are full. Now, I'll have to turn off auto loot and stop and examine each container and determine if something inside is worth the risk. Plus, if you get caught stealing and pay the fine you just don't lose the item you stole, but ALL stolen items in your possession. This means you will have to make MANY trips to the black market wasting more of your time if you don't want to lose anything.

Additionally, now that NPCs are killable I see cities full of [snip]holes running around in groups killing everyone including the guards just for the fun of it since they will be able to overpower everyone. It will be anarchy on the streets. This will ruin the game immersion experience for me.

Also, accidental NPC death from splash damage has me worried. There are always situations where mobs are placed around NPCs or you get chased towards an NPC in combat and an accidental death seems inevitable. Fines for killing someone accidentally or not are insanely expensive. I work hard for my gold and can't afford to lose a single coin because of this.

Well, that's my opinion on it.

Epsilon_Echo · October 2014

Nestor · October 2014

cgipervert wrote: »

Additionally, now that NPCs are killable I see cities full of [snip]holes running around in groups killing everyone including the guards just for the fun of it since they will be able to overpower everyone.

Not looking forward to this "feature" at all.

ontheleftcoast · October 2014

There could be some easy fixes for this. Auto loot could have a modifier "Don't steal anything". Then you can click on a crate and if the contents would be considered stolen you won't take them. I assume nothing on monsters you kill is marked as stolen. So you won't notice any difference.

But the roving gangs of a-holes killing every NPC in a town will probably happen. Unless all the town guards are VR14 elite bosses that swarm evil doers you're right. There are times you'll enter someplace like Daggerfall and all you'll see will be corpses in the streets. No merchants will be alive to buy your stuff...

On the plus side you won't have to hear about buying that hero an ale for the 9,083rd time.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

As long as they make sure people cant in anyway fall into PvP by accident , then i dont really care much. I also heard you can take things and still dont take part of the system? Will need to check this later.

With that said , get ready people , zen is incapable of launching a patch that doesnt have more bugs than features and that one will have many features.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

cgipervert wrote: »

Additionally, now that NPCs are killable I see cities full of [snip]holes running around in groups killing everyone including the guards just for the fun of it since they will be able to overpower everyone.

Seriously, this is a bad idea. Other than unkillable quest-related NPCs and merchants/bankers, towns are going to be deserted, all other NPCs will be dead.

Welka · October 2014

Jesus guys... You deserve a big face palm

Can't even be bothered arguing with you when I see how idiotic your comments are. Good luck with JS and try to document yourselves before spilling garbage on the forums....

Frenkthevile · October 2014

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

Your opinion will cost you so much.

bedlom · October 2014

I share you're concerns about the npc killing.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

bedlom wrote: »

I share you're concerns about the npc killing.

I think every person who "lol" 's concerns like this is one of the people who're going to run around killing all the NPCs one the system comes out... :disagree:

Rune_Relic · October 2014

1. Important NPCs are immortal. No Ghost towns.

2. Both the enforcer and the thief have to opt in to PVP ?

3. The only issue I see is killing people by accident.....but then you wouldn't be fighting anyone in PVE land unless you flagged yourself as PVP anyway. So actually a non issue.

4. The thief side of things you could have a point with the auto-loot and is worth raising. If thief is an opt in I doubt you will be able to steal anything anyway.

jluceyub17_ESO · October 2014

If you don't want to see dead NPCs take up with the Enforcers, or whatever, and save them.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

Simple. Don't get caught.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

That being said in order to not get caught they're going to have to change how stealth currently works. It's pretty atrocious.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

2. Both the enforcer and the thief have to opt in to PVP.

So if someone goes around killing and stealing, they can just opt "No" to the bounty hunter and continue their spree? That seems kind of pointless.

Welka · October 2014

You can't opt out from stealing. Just be carefull and you'll be fine. And you're not gonna be chased by guards, even less by player guards, if you accidentally steal a stale radish. Use your common sense ffs...

Accidentally hit a NPC? Run away until you're out of combat. Do we really need to spell everything out to you?...

You don't wanna take part of JS? Don't steal or kill in towns. Is it that hard? No!

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Removed since Welka provided info that shows it's not as bad as I thought.

Welka · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »

If you don't want to see dead NPCs take up with the Enforcers, or whatever, and save them.

Except the killers can just opt "No" to the fight and continue on their spree, apparently both the enforcer and the criminal gave to agree to fight.

Shenanigans. Where did you see you need to agree to fight a guard if you kill an NPC. By killing a NPC you opt yourself in for JS automatically.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Removed since Welka provided info that shows it's not as bad as I thought.

Voodoo · October 2014

important NPC cant be killed, quest givers and vendors. so what if a few npc are dead that would give you a one liner anyways..

It makes sense if you walk into someones house (not invited) thats break and entering and taking something (not invited) thats stealing. NO?

Just because this has a small effect on your (OP) material/junk collecting does not mean it should simply not happen. Trust me YOU'LL ADAPT!

Welka · October 2014

No you can't. Once you pass a certain bounty, you're up for PVP. Unless confirmed otherwise, this is how it was described in guild summit.

Can you imagine ZOS implementing what you're suggesting?

"Oh hello mister XYZ player guard! I know I just killed 20 NPCs and stole 5k worth of stale radish. Is it bad? Well here's the middle finger because I opt out from PVP and will just peaceful head to the next thief den to resell my stolen goods. Good bye mister player guard"

Somehow I can't see that happening

nerevarine1138 · October 2014

I wish people would actually read about the justice system before making long, rambling posts about things that won't be issues in it.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Welka wrote: »

Once you pass a certain bounty, you're up for PVP. Unless confirmed otherwise, this is how it was described in guild summit.

I did not know that, that alleviates my concerns.

Nestor · October 2014

What do we need to read? The NPCs are killable, where are most NPCs? In the towns and cities. So those of us who want no part in this will be forced to wade through all the fights and killings and Enforcers and criminals to get to the merchants and vendors to do our business in towns. Because this stuff will be going on whether we are "flagged" to participate in it or not.

As for the confusion on the Stealth and what is lootable or not, ZOS has not really clarified this. People are even confused to think that if your sneaking, your not stealing. It just means if your sneaking, you have less of a chance to get caught stealing. If you take something from an owned container, you will be stealing it. As it stands right now, just activating a container breaks stealth, so this will have to be revamped.

ontheleftcoast · October 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I wish people would actually read about the justice system before making long, rambling posts about things that won't be issues in it.

I guess many of us have taken to believing the worst about Zenimax. There are so many ways I see the JS screwing up despite their claims that I'm giving doubt the benefit instead of them.

Take the example above of simply "running away" from an NPC you accidentally engaged. Really? Are you playing the same game I'm playing? Because running away from fights is almost impossible. So many encounters posses snare abilities that slow me down by 20% or 40% that running isn't really an option. And they pursue over rivers, and down cliffs, for what seems like miles. Cloaking with invisibility? Hah! Apparently everything in Tamriel has radar and can see exactly where my shadow cloaked Nightblade has gone.

So color me skeptical they'll get the JS right without several iterations and lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums. But heh, I could be completely wrong about it and will gladly admit it if it happens.

Welka · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

What do we need to read? The NPCs are killable, where are most NPCs? In the towns and cities. So those of us who want no part in this will be forced to wade through all the fights and killings and Enforcers and criminals to get to the merchants and vendors to do our business in towns. Because this stuff will be going on whether we are "flagged" to participate in it or not.

Not a concern. The only places I can remotely forecast any kind of mayhem are the first area you start the game in, so lv1-15 because they're crowded. But players will get their arses whopped by NPC guards over and over because ZOS did confirm they will be challenging, the players will stop trying. In higher zones, the balance between crime and enforcement will take place by itself.

AaronMB · October 2014

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I wish people would actually read about the justice system before making long, rambling posts about things that won't be issues in it.

I guess many of us have taken to believing the worst about Zenimax...

So color me skeptical they'll get the JS right without several iterations and lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums. But heh, I could be completely wrong about it and will gladly admit it if it happens.

Indeed.

My faith in ZoS: Nerfed.

Nestor · October 2014

Elden Root, Rawkla (sp?), Riften, Windhelm, Rivenspire, Wayrest etc are all quite crowded. There are people firing off the spell shows all the time in those places. You think this is going to get better because they are all of sudden going to go to Daggerfall or Vulkhel Guard or Davons Watch and do all this only in those cities?

Since the gankers now have a reason to go to towns and kill NPCs, they are going to go to the towns and kill NPCs. Where they may not have had a reason before.

I will be standing there wondering why I made the city safe in the first place while all this is going on. Then I will log out and go play another game.

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

Hopefully, people will get bored killing NPCs after a while, but I expect the first few days are going to be quite... interesting.

rlbolab14a_ESO · October 2014

I don't get it. Haven't followed the Justice System update so I don't know to much about it right now, but if I can't enter a house/building and start looting because that would be considered stealing, how am I suppose to find those last three rare purple motif's I still need for my crafter?

Nestor · October 2014

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Hopefully, people will get bored killing NPCs after a while, but I expect the first few days are going to be quite... interesting.

Hopefully they get bored. If the cities are still in mayhem after a week or two, then this game won't be played anymore by me.