Dwemer Style Items - Another Ridiculously Long Grind

Mountain_Dewed

I was thinking and I really hope the same thing that happened with purple recipes doesn't happen with these motifs. I dunno what happened with the purple recipes, whether it was people complaining or what, but they got totally ruined by the drop rate and I hope that we all can learn that we don't want certain things too fall to easily.

I mean who knows anyone that can craft and sell food for a profitable price anymore?

Darkonflare15

Mountain_Dewed wrote: »

I was thinking and I really hope the same thing that happened with purple recipes doesn't happen with these motifs. I dunno what happened with the purple recipes, whether it was people complaining or what, but they got totally ruined by the drop rate and I hope that we all can learn that we don't want certain things too fall to easily.

I mean who knows anyone that can craft and sell food for a profitable price anymore?

I never like purple recipes anyway. I always like blue recipes because the buff is bigger plus I do not need a buff in all three skills just 2.

Darkonflare15

DDuke wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Personally I liked the fact I had to search 'hard' for these parts. Something to add longevity is exactly what this game needs. Too many players with a "want it now" attitude are spoiling this game !

Difficult items make them worthless items I say.

By the very definition, something that has less supply, but more demand is worth more than something with a lot of supply, but no demand.

Economics 101.


The reason why it's good to have the style materials specifically be slightly harder to get (2 days of "grinding" per full set for most people), is that while you need the motif only once (or tbh you only need to know a competent crafter), you'll need style materials every time you create a new set.

This makes the style materials have an economic value further down the road when most people have already learned the motif, unlike the "bones, molybdenum, argentum, daedra hearts" etc, which people just keep deleting since they aren't worth a penny.

Yeah that makes sense but if the the reward is something that is not worth the time, effort and money then it becomes worthless to a lot of people. I never bought any of the motifs because they were not worth that amount money people was selling them for. The things that I found more valuable were being sold much cheaper. The dwarven scaps may be rare but they are not going to sell for much if people cannot get the books. They are pretty much useless with out the books. Longevity only kills a product.

LonePirate

Another dismal evening farming Dwemer scraps.

First stop, Rkhardahrk in Lower Craglorn. There are not many Dwemer constructs here. Killed a few but not the boss. No scraps and very few jugs/pots/urns which yielded nothing of interest.

Next stop, Mtharnaz in Lower Craglorn. Killed all of the constructs except the boss. No scraps again and very few jugs/pots/urns with nothing of note in them.

The AD zones are my VR6-10 zones and there are no Dwemer ruins there so I then ventured to Aldunz in VR4 Alik'r Desert. I made two loops through the newly expanded delve, killing everything in sight. I scored 48 gears and 1 lonely piece of Dwemer scrap. I'm now up to 6 pieces over 4 evenings of searching. There are numerous jugs/pots/urns in the place; but I found no motif items.

Tonight only deepened my belief that there is a problem with the Dwemer scrap drop rate. Are there any VR EP players having any luck finding the Dwemer scraps?

Caspur

Keep them rare, this way when you do get one it feels like a real reward because not everybody else has one.

Darkonflare15

LonePirate wrote: »

Another dismal evening farming Dwemer scraps.

First stop, Rkhardahrk in Lower Craglorn. There are not many Dwemer constructs here. Killed a few but not the boss. No scraps and very few jugs/pots/urns which yielded nothing of interest.

Next stop, Mtharnaz in Lower Craglorn. Killed all of the constructs except the boss. No scraps again and very few jugs/pots/urns with nothing of note in them.

The AD zones are my VR6-10 zones and there are no Dwemer ruins there so I then ventured to Aldunz in VR4 Alik'r Desert. I made two loops through the newly expanded delve, killing everything in sight. I scored 48 gears and 1 lonely piece of Dwemer scrap. I'm now up to 6 pieces over 4 evenings of searching. There are numerous jugs/pots/urns in the place; but I found no motif items.

Tonight only deepened my belief that there is a problem with the Dwemer scrap drop rate. Are there any VR EP players having any luck finding the Dwemer scraps?

I not EP but I have found a total of 19 dwarven scrap so far and I tend to find more of them when consecutively killing dwarven bots. The highest I have seen drop is 4 from a dwarven spider to lowest 1.

LonePirate

Caspur wrote: »

Keep them rare, this way when you do get one it feels like a real reward because not everybody else has one.

One is not a reward; it is an insult as you need 10 of them before you can use them. Many people are going to want at least 70 of them so finding only one after a typical evening will only frustrate. This game doesn't need any more reasons to frustrate players.

Darkonflare15

@LonePirate‌
Have you tried going to the dwemer ruin on stros m'kai it should be vet 1 for you. It has a spot where you have endless amount dwemer spiders you can for scaps.

TagaParti

found 1 chapter in cyrodiil dwemers.. guess this is good for pvp, 1 place that will put up a fire on alliance vs alliance.. nobody can farm safely, no bots will ever go there too.. this is really great!

Sacadon

ZOS,

I get there's always going to be a corp/business side to such things. Actually, I think it's still overly influencing the products direction in this case. Worst case you think your target market enjoys grinding the same dungeons and mobs for eons as an enjoyable way to pursue rare and high demand items. Keyword is enjoyable or activities that make us feel good.

- Purple motifs may drop infrequently, but they are certainly not rare. Case and point almost every large trade guild and major zone chat provides accessibility to them for 20-30K. Imperial motif drop rates and accessibility are rare, but last I checked demand for the price these sold was low.

- Grinding dungeons for hours on end to trigger a mathematical algorithm for this particular prize (which I suspect was already coded before update 5) may be an elegant way for the devs to quickly check this one off, but certainly not an enjoyable carrot for myself or most of the players I know, which has a good amount of faction and personality diversity across player types (except RP).

If your SDLC is similar to that of a modern a corp environment, then release 5 is dev complete and it's too late for a design change. So next time and for other similar features, please focus equally on the quality of the experience and not just the efficient way to check the box on a task.

Because while there may be a small set of the player base willing to do whatever regardless of fun level to get rare items (farming nirncrux, purple motifs etc...), most of us want to feel good while we are pursuing such things.

I could be way off on how close this represents most others, but it's certainly true for me.

Thanks

bkzland

Can the pages please not be exclusive to containers? I really dislike the container grind, would much prefer if these dropped from enemies at a reasonably low rate.

Mountain_Dewed

I really don't think they intend players to grind for anything. I think they want these to be rare as if we played the game as it should. They more than likely intended for far less motifs and recipes to be in the world than there is now.

DDuke

LonePirate wrote: »

Caspur wrote: »

Keep them rare, this way when you do get one it feels like a real reward because not everybody else has one.

One is not a reward; it is an insult as you need 10 of them before you can use them. Many people are going to want at least 70 of them so finding only one after a typical evening will only frustrate. This game doesn't need any more reasons to frustrate players.

If you get frustrated, you can always buy them from people who haven't been that unlucky. This probably isn't happening on PTS, but it will on live servers, so keep that in mind.

The worst case scenario is, that they become common like the other materials, and we get just another thing to stack up by hundreds in bank with economic value of zero.

Gilvoth

TagaParti wrote: »

found 1 chapter in cyrodiil dwemers.. guess this is good for pvp, 1 place that will put up a fire on alliance vs alliance.. nobody can farm safely, no bots will ever go there too.. this is really great!

where is this "cryodiil dwemers" in cryodiil? are you refering to a dwemer ruin or cave in cryodiil?

LonePirate

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@LonePirate‌
Have you tried going to the dwemer ruin on stros m'kai it should be vet 1 for you. It has a spot where you have endless amount dwemer spiders you can for scaps.

Yes, I made several passes through Bthzark on Monday and Tuesday. The spiders there (and everywhere else) are just not dropping the scraps for me. I have only found scraps in Alik'r, Bangkorai and Craglorn via drops from spheres and centurions. I have a Bangkorai delve yet to run through this release and a couple of ruins in the EP zones where I will search the pots for motif items. Those are next on my agenda. Then I will start a second sweep through all of the ruins again including the one in Stros.

TagaParti wrote: »

found 1 chapter in cyrodiil dwemers.. guess this is good for pvp, 1 place that will put up a fire on alliance vs alliance.. nobody can farm safely, no bots will ever go there too.. this is really great!

What cave is that in Cyrodiil? I will stop in there later today and give it a go.

Mountain_Dewed

Dwemer in Cyrodiil? I'd like to know where also?

Darkonflare15

DDuke wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Caspur wrote: »

Keep them rare, this way when you do get one it feels like a real reward because not everybody else has one.

One is not a reward; it is an insult as you need 10 of them before you can use them. Many people are going to want at least 70 of them so finding only one after a typical evening will only frustrate. This game doesn't need any more reasons to frustrate players.

If you get frustrated, you can always buy them from people who haven't been that unlucky. This probably isn't happening on PTS, but it will on live servers, so keep that in mind.

The worst case scenario is, that they become common like the other materials, and we get just another thing to stack up by hundreds in bank with economic value of zero.

You really love rare drop rate don't you. They are uncommon materials at best not actaully rare because they can drop in a set of 4 at a time.

LonePirate wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

@LonePirate‌
Have you tried going to the dwemer ruin on stros m'kai it should be vet 1 for you. It has a spot where you have endless amount dwemer spiders you can for scaps.

Yes, I made several passes through Bthzark on Monday and Tuesday. The spiders there (and everywhere else) are just not dropping the scraps for me. I have only found scraps in Alik'r, Bangkorai and Craglorn via drops from spheres and centurions. I have a Bangkorai delve yet to run through this release and a couple of ruins in the EP zones where I will search the pots for motif items. Those are next on my agenda. Then I will start a second sweep through all of the ruins again including the one in Stros.

TagaParti wrote: »

found 1 chapter in cyrodiil dwemers.. guess this is good for pvp, 1 place that will put up a fire on alliance vs alliance.. nobody can farm safely, no bots will ever go there too.. this is really great!

What cave is that in Cyrodiil? I will stop in there later today and give it a go.

Weird they always drop from spider for me. Do not lose hope. You will find them. I found a total 22 dwemer scrap yesterday for hour and half.

AngryNord

I _seriously_ hope there aren't any Dwemer ruins in Cyrodiil??? That'd be one of the worst rapes of lore ever... :-/

Mountain_Dewed

I am still having problems with ruins having empty containers. Alik'r desert they all are always empty, The Rift is empty a lot but not always and Eastmarch are mostly empty. I haven't checked on other factions but this is for an AD toon and haven't listed all ruins .

Cody

LonePirate wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Personally I liked the fact I had to search 'hard' for these parts. Something to add longevity is exactly what this game needs. Too many players with a "want it now" attitude are spoiling this game !

The Imperial Motif book is already the rarest item in the game. The four epic/purple motif books are a lot more rare than before. Nirncrux stones are exceptionally rare. The Dwemer motifs look to be rare as well. How many very difficult to find items do you need or want in this game? Then there are the rare loot drops.

It's one thing to ask for something to be rare to make it challenging to find. It is another thing entirely to make it next to impossible to find thus demotivating players from ever looking for it.

There are 15 chapters to this motif. Given how tough it is to find the four epic motif books recently, now add 15 more items that are equally as rare. The difficulty in finding them will make people quit first which is not what this game needs.

wait.. you have to find 15 rare drop chapters to complete the motif... are you serious??

..... guess I wont be looking for it then:( I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

LonePirate

Cody wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Personally I liked the fact I had to search 'hard' for these parts. Something to add longevity is exactly what this game needs. Too many players with a "want it now" attitude are spoiling this game !

The Imperial Motif book is already the rarest item in the game. The four epic/purple motif books are a lot more rare than before. Nirncrux stones are exceptionally rare. The Dwemer motifs look to be rare as well. How many very difficult to find items do you need or want in this game? Then there are the rare loot drops.

It's one thing to ask for something to be rare to make it challenging to find. It is another thing entirely to make it next to impossible to find thus demotivating players from ever looking for it.

There are 15 chapters to this motif. Given how tough it is to find the four epic motif books recently, now add 15 more items that are equally as rare. The difficulty in finding them will make people quit first which is not what this game needs.

wait.. you have to find 15 rare drop chapters to complete the motif... are you serious??

..... guess I wont be looking for it then:( I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

Yes. You might get lucky and find only the armor pieces you seek. Or you might hit the jackpot and find the actual book. Otherwise, you will need a lot of time or a lot of gold.

Faulgor

LonePirate wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Personally I liked the fact I had to search 'hard' for these parts. Something to add longevity is exactly what this game needs. Too many players with a "want it now" attitude are spoiling this game !

The Imperial Motif book is already the rarest item in the game. The four epic/purple motif books are a lot more rare than before. Nirncrux stones are exceptionally rare. The Dwemer motifs look to be rare as well. How many very difficult to find items do you need or want in this game? Then there are the rare loot drops.

It's one thing to ask for something to be rare to make it challenging to find. It is another thing entirely to make it next to impossible to find thus demotivating players from ever looking for it.

There are 15 chapters to this motif. Given how tough it is to find the four epic motif books recently, now add 15 more items that are equally as rare. The difficulty in finding them will make people quit first which is not what this game needs.

wait.. you have to find 15 rare drop chapters to complete the motif... are you serious??

..... guess I wont be looking for it then:( I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

Yes. You might get lucky and find only the armor pieces you seek. Or you might hit the jackpot and find the actual book. Otherwise, you will need a lot of time or a lot of gold.

Which raises the question, is it actually more likely to find the full motif book than all 15 individual pages combined?

Mountain_Dewed

Faulgor wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Personally I liked the fact I had to search 'hard' for these parts. Something to add longevity is exactly what this game needs. Too many players with a "want it now" attitude are spoiling this game !

The Imperial Motif book is already the rarest item in the game. The four epic/purple motif books are a lot more rare than before. Nirncrux stones are exceptionally rare. The Dwemer motifs look to be rare as well. How many very difficult to find items do you need or want in this game? Then there are the rare loot drops.

It's one thing to ask for something to be rare to make it challenging to find. It is another thing entirely to make it next to impossible to find thus demotivating players from ever looking for it.

There are 15 chapters to this motif. Given how tough it is to find the four epic motif books recently, now add 15 more items that are equally as rare. The difficulty in finding them will make people quit first which is not what this game needs.

wait.. you have to find 15 rare drop chapters to complete the motif... are you serious??

..... guess I wont be looking for it then:( I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

Yes. You might get lucky and find only the armor pieces you seek. Or you might hit the jackpot and find the actual book. Otherwise, you will need a lot of time or a lot of gold.

Which raises the question, is it actually more likely to find the full motif book than all 15 individual pages combined?

From the way it sounds, finding every chapter will have better odds than finding the book.

Nightreaver

Mountain_Dewed wrote: »

From the way it sounds, finding every chapter will have better odds than finding the book.

Probably better odds of hitting the lottery or getting hit my lightning that achieving either of those goals.

I have farmed Wayrest daily and just recently found the 9th Purple VR5 recipe. Granted, I have a couple dozen duplicates but to get an entire set takes time. Someone said there are 15 different pieces to the new Motif set so get a complete set will take even longer. Add to that time that you will be farming in a dungeon, not some bank which will add to the time.

There are 34 different pieces that can crafted with a motif yet this set contains recipes for only 15. Does anyone know what the 15 different motifs are?
My guess would be:
7 armor motifs (That is assuming 1 motif is good for all armor types)
4 Metal weapon motifs (Dagger, Sword (both 1H and 2H), Mace (1H and 2H), Axe (1H and 2H)
3 Wood weapons (Bow, Destruction staff (includes Inferno, Ice and Lightning) and Restoration Staff
1 Wood shield

I apologize if this information was posted and I missed it.

khele23eb17_ESO

It seems ESO endgame is heading towards time consuming farm + RNG based rewards. Cant say its my personal favorite model...

ElemancerZzei

FYI guys, best place i've found for Scrap is Bthanual in Deshaan. I found 20 pieces in approx 30 min.

Darkonflare15

ElemancerZzei wrote: »

FYI guys, best place i've found for Scrap is Bthanual in Deshaan. I found 20 pieces in approx 30 min.

Already established that it all base on luck and timing when trying to find scrap. The place I have been using was Bthanual in Deshaan. Which was about Tuesday where I would only find 9 in one hour. I have found 20 in 30 min on Wednesday and 30 in hour on Thursday. This is in the same place all three times. Its all RNG based drops. Some days you get few. Some days you get a lot. There is nothing special about a certain location other than the number of dwemer enemies and how many dwemer jars, urns, and pots is in it.

OtarTheMad

LonePirate wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Personally I liked the fact I had to search 'hard' for these parts. Something to add longevity is exactly what this game needs. Too many players with a "want it now" attitude are spoiling this game !

The Imperial Motif book is already the rarest item in the game. The four epic/purple motif books are a lot more rare than before. Nirncrux stones are exceptionally rare. The Dwemer motifs look to be rare as well. How many very difficult to find items do you need or want in this game? Then there are the rare loot drops.

It's one thing to ask for something to be rare to make it challenging to find. It is another thing entirely to make it next to impossible to find thus demotivating players from ever looking for it.

There are 15 chapters to this motif. Given how tough it is to find the four epic motif books recently, now add 15 more items that are equally as rare. The difficulty in finding them will make people quit first which is not what this game needs.

wait.. you have to find 15 rare drop chapters to complete the motif... are you serious??

..... guess I wont be looking for it then:( I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

Yes. You might get lucky and find only the armor pieces you seek. Or you might hit the jackpot and find the actual book. Otherwise, you will need a lot of time or a lot of gold.

I get why ZOS did how they did the motif and the chapters but I have neither a lot of time nor a lot of gold at the moment in the game so it looks like I won't have a Dwemer motif at all... really sucks.

Sasky

Craglorn should really have an increased drop-rate since, while soloable, it was intended for 4-man. As well, it's equal access for all alliances.

Nightreaver

All this talk about the low drop rate of scraps but I really don't see this being an issue at all. I think the main objective will be attaining motifs. I think a better measurement might be the ratio of scraps found vs. the number of motifs found. Even if you're only finding 6 scraps an hour I expect you will collect more than enough scraps while searching for all 15 motif chapters.

So just curious, what have people been seeing as a ratio of scraps to motifs found?

Sasky wrote: »

Craglorn should really have an increased drop-rate since, while soloable, it was intended for 4-man. As well, it's equal access for all alliances.

No thanks, I saw how well that worked when purple Provisioning recipes were only dropping in trials.
I've always believed that the best Crafting drops should go to the people who invested the time into Crafting to become the best Crafters. Not to be purchased for a million gold from some Leet player that has never seen a crafting station.

As I've said before, my choice would be a 2 person repeatable/daily instanced Dwemer quest. This would help alleviate some of the griefing I expect to see when people start claiming Dwemer camps. The Leets would still solo for bragging rights while giving the Less Than Elites something they could complete and everyone an equal chance at attaining scraps/motifs.