ZOS announces it's first guild summit taking place next week

Manoekin

Zintair wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Last Update they made a plea for people to jump on PTS and play test. I do not think they were happy with the play testing for Update 4. This time around I think they are trying a Summit to get a few guilds on board to play on PTS. They need groups to test the dungeon scaling, the Undaunted! daily quests, and the veteran City of Ash.

I do not think it is a coincidence that they are having this Summit on the eve of Update 5 hitting PTS.

So they invite 1 person from guilds to test PTS content over 2 days? ./facepalm

Ummm, he said "get a few guilds on board to play on PTS". Since these folks represent their various guilds, they're in a good position to push for greater PTS participation. Quite a valid theory, personally.

We did that for 1.4 with the Q/A DEV Panel.

@‌Tripwyr did you guys report [snip] when he used to 1 shot people for 5k damage on fire ballista? Just curious....

Anyone that gets bugged reports themselves and talks to a GM. It's been like that since we first started.

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

It looks more like you're asking for a job with them than anything else. All of the guilds bring bugs to the dev's attention, report on balance issues in pve and pvp, class issues, what we'd like to see as far as content, and much more. Everything is in the suggestion and report format... not how you seem to think the guilds are making demands that have led to the current state of the game.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Lfehova

Manoekin wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Last Update they made a plea for people to jump on PTS and play test. I do not think they were happy with the play testing for Update 4. This time around I think they are trying a Summit to get a few guilds on board to play on PTS. They need groups to test the dungeon scaling, the Undaunted! daily quests, and the veteran City of Ash.

I do not think it is a coincidence that they are having this Summit on the eve of Update 5 hitting PTS.

So they invite 1 person from guilds to test PTS content over 2 days? ./facepalm

Ummm, he said "get a few guilds on board to play on PTS". Since these folks represent their various guilds, they're in a good position to push for greater PTS participation. Quite a valid theory, personally.

We did that for 1.4 with the Q/A DEV Panel.

@‌Tripwyr did you guys report [snip] when he used to 1 shot people for 5k damage on fire ballista? Just curious....

Anyone that gets bugged reports themselves and talks to a GM. It's been like that since we first started.

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

It looks more like you're asking for a job with them than anything else. All of the guilds bring bugs to the dev's attention, report on balance issues in pve and pvp, class issues, what we'd like to see as far as content, and much more. Everything is in the suggestion and report format... not how you seem to think the guilds are making demands that have led to the current state of the game.

No, I absolutely do not want a job with ZoS. I wouldn't risk my career in a company that is floundering when I have a secure well paying job. But I do want to help improve a game I've come to love.

I apologize if I misinterpreted what trip said, but he made it seem you guys and others have done more than others in terms of feedback, which warranted invites to this summit to discuss the game and where it may be going. Many of us have been reporting and suggesting as well through the in game method and through PMs on reddit and forums.

Either way, it has been failing.

I hope trip is a good charismatic speaker who can motivate and perpetuate change in groups, because it seems he may have the chance to actually influence ZoS and their group of developers in person at this summit. I'll patiently wait for a summary of the summit, and wait to see what is implemented in the next big patch. If ZoS fails to heed any of our suggestions, or our arbitrarily selected representatives fail to push what we find most important, then I will most likely start looking for my next game. This level of disarray should not garner my financial support. It just shouldn't. This is a business world, and you can't survive with a crappy product just on the loyalty of your previous elder scrolls fans.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

AbraXuSeXile

These handpicked guild leader's will just be part of the casual crowd who will represent the voices of the roleplay/pve community or will have absolutely no clue about mechanics or competitive PvP.

It's a sham.

Desdemonte

Lfehova wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Last Update they made a plea for people to jump on PTS and play test. I do not think they were happy with the play testing for Update 4. This time around I think they are trying a Summit to get a few guilds on board to play on PTS. They need groups to test the dungeon scaling, the Undaunted! daily quests, and the veteran City of Ash.

I do not think it is a coincidence that they are having this Summit on the eve of Update 5 hitting PTS.

So they invite 1 person from guilds to test PTS content over 2 days? ./facepalm

Ummm, he said "get a few guilds on board to play on PTS". Since these folks represent their various guilds, they're in a good position to push for greater PTS participation. Quite a valid theory, personally.

We did that for 1.4 with the Q/A DEV Panel.

@‌Tripwyr did you guys report [snip] when he used to 1 shot people for 5k damage on fire ballista? Just curious....

Anyone that gets bugged reports themselves and talks to a GM. It's been like that since we first started.

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

It looks more like you're asking for a job with them than anything else. All of the guilds bring bugs to the dev's attention, report on balance issues in pve and pvp, class issues, what we'd like to see as far as content, and much more. Everything is in the suggestion and report format... not how you seem to think the guilds are making demands that have led to the current state of the game.

No, I absolutely do not want a job with ZoS. I wouldn't risk my career in a company that is floundering when I have a secure well paying job. But I do want to help improve a game I've come to love.

I apologize if I misinterpreted what trip said, but he made it seem you guys and others have done more than others in terms of feedback, which warranted invites to this summit to discuss the game and where it may be going. Many of us have been reporting and suggesting as well through the in game method and through PMs on reddit and forums.

Either way, it has been failing.

I hope trip is a good charismatic speaker who can motivate and perpetuate change in groups, because it seems he may have the chance to actually influence ZoS and their group of developers in person at this summit. I'll patiently wait for a summary of the summit, and wait to see what is implemented in the next big patch. If ZoS fails to heed any of our suggestions, or our arbitrarily selected representatives fail to push what we find most important, then I will most likely start looking for my next game. This level of disarray should not garner my financial support. It just shouldn't. This is a business world, and you can't survive with a crappy product just on the loyalty of your previous elder scrolls fans.

Isn't Trypwire a 22 year old girl?

Not saying nothing by that, just wanted to clarify.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Davadin

Lfehova wrote: »

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

ZOS doesn't really care.

Marketing stunt.

Or at least 90% of it.

*BUT* I still like to gamble on that 10%.

Huntler

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

What I am about to say may come off as a little harsh, but understand I am not saying it to be mean or bring you down, just be honest with my opinion. Anywhere here goes:

If you wanted to know why maybe you did not get invited, this post is a perfect reason. You do not seem to understand what this summit is going to be. Doomsaying helps no one, making threats or demands also helps no one. You walk in claiming the game is dying they are going to kick you out immediately, what help does that bring if things are in trouble? You think they don't know that? I swear every armchair critic thinks devs are absolute morons that don't know what the problems are, there could very well be many incompetent people in Zeni (as can be seen by the rampant bugs), but its not like they don't know some of the problems. In addition, you make it sound like any of the people invited hold some kind of power or leverage, news flash, they don't. This summit will at best have a minor influence on things to come/what might happen, it is not some opportunity to make a massive shift in priorities. Its just not possible, you have to think realistically of what this could bring, which is simply put, minor influence on their future plans (hopefully beneficial minor influences). A company can't just turn on a dime.

In addition, more critiquing on "easy" solutions to problems that clearly current guilds Zeni listen to haven't been providing... let me *eyeroll* that. Anything you think is easy... it isn't. None of the problems with this game have easy solutions. People somehow thing the lag and server crashes should be easy to fix... that is terribly unlikely. Anything people have suggested likely takes a huge amount of resources and the current architecture may just not be able to afford it, it is not a simple problem. Neither is anything else like aoe caps or anything else people complain about. They have many factors they have to deal with, slightly changing aoe caps suddenly makes every ability drastically different. The whole game's balanced around these caps... changing them will completely throw current balance out the window... that would be disastrous if they don't take their time in making sure any change is well tested (they are testing aoe cap changes currently).


I realize I could keep going, but no one will read and why bother. My point is, you need to think about things objectively and realistically. It's absolutely a joke and even partially insulting to think anyone has the right to walk in there and "demand" jack ***. I know gamers love to demand the sky and everything, but they never are realistic and instead like to spout oh "ded gaem." I have never, ever met a gaming community that didn't follow this rhetoric *** and its infuriating how unreasonable, short-sighted, and unrealistic you people can be. Everyone is a 12 year experienced developer who can design a better game/system because they took a basic intro to programming class in college

Desdemonte

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

These handpicked guild leader's will just be part of the casual crowd who will represent the voices of the roleplay/pve community or will have absolutely no clue about mechanics or competitive PvP.

It's a sham.

I think the PvE aspect of the game is really important as well, and I think it needs its representation. The RP community (which I am clueless on) deserves their representation also. I'm sure there will be adequate representation of the PVP concerns via @Dleatherus though. I trust the Noore with this, as they have been the only group on these forums (who has the ear of ZOS) that are more concerned with the quality and success of the game than stroking their own egos.

But I have to agree for the most part on your last point. ZOS doesn't need a guild summit to know WTF is wrong with their game and how to fix it. We've all made our fair share of bug reports and feedback reports, I'm sure.

Zintair

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

What I am about to say may come off as a little harsh, but understand I am not saying it to be mean or bring you down, just be honest with my opinion. Anywhere here goes:

If you wanted to know why maybe you did not get invited, this post is a perfect reason. You do not seem to understand what this summit is going to be. Doomsaying helps no one, making threats or demands also helps no one. You walk in claiming the game is dying they are going to kick you out immediately, what help does that bring if things are in trouble? You think they don't know that? I swear every armchair critic thinks devs are absolute morons that don't know what the problems are, there could very well be many incompetent people in Zeni (as can be seen by the rampant bugs), but its not like they don't know some of the problems. In addition, you make it sound like any of the people invited hold some kind of power or leverage, news flash, they don't. This summit will at best have a minor influence on things to come/what might happen, it is not some opportunity to make a massive shift in priorities. Its just not possible, you have to think realistically of what this could bring, which is simply put, minor influence on their future plans (hopefully beneficial minor influences). A company can't just turn on a dime.

In addition, more critiquing on "easy" solutions to problems that clearly current guilds Zeni listen to haven't been providing... let me *eyeroll* that. Anything you think is easy... it isn't. None of the problems with this game have easy solutions. People somehow thing the lag and server crashes should be easy to fix... that is terribly unlikely. Anything people have suggested likely takes a huge amount of resources and the current architecture may just not be able to afford it, it is not a simple problem. Neither is anything else like aoe caps or anything else people complain about. They have many factors they have to deal with, slightly changing aoe caps suddenly makes every ability drastically different. The whole game's balanced around these caps... changing them will completely throw current balance out the window... that would be disastrous if they don't take their time in making sure any change is well tested (they are testing aoe cap changes currently).


I realize I could keep going, but no one will read and why bother. My point is, you need to think about things objectively and realistically. It's absolutely a joke and even partially insulting to think anyone has the right to walk in there and "demand" jack ***. I know gamers love to demand the sky and everything, but they never are realistic and instead like to spout oh "ded gaem." I have never, ever met a gaming community that didn't follow this rhetoric *** and its infuriating how unreasonable, short-sighted, and unrealistic you people can be. Everyone is a 12 year experienced developer who can design a better game/system because they took a basic intro to programming class in college

TLDR - ZoS favors AD

Got it!! lol

Desdemonte

BTW @Dleatherus‌, I think separating PvE buffs from PvP is quite important as well. PvP buffs need to stay in the campaign they were gained, and PvE should be in no way reliant on PvP.

I think the only way PvE buffs should come from PvP is if *that individual* goes to PvP to acquire them. And *not* linked to AP, because there would be just more farmers like the Emp traders. They should be linked with personal PvP achievements. Not necessarily crazy high ones that take PvE- ers away from their first love from too long a period though.

Or make it so PvP buffs stay in the campaign they were gained and create a new PvE system where those guys can get their buffs.

Also, I'd like to see a bit of focus put onto a more traditional raid style quest. Someone mentioned a non- timed one that is simply difficult to complete due to the mechanics of it, requiring a variety of character types.

That's about as far as my PvE comments go lol.

Make sure they FIX THE LAG! (And NBs FFS).

Huntler

Zintair wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

What I am about to say may come off as a little harsh, but understand I am not saying it to be mean or bring you down, just be honest with my opinion. Anywhere here goes:

If you wanted to know why maybe you did not get invited, this post is a perfect reason. You do not seem to understand what this summit is going to be. Doomsaying helps no one, making threats or demands also helps no one. You walk in claiming the game is dying they are going to kick you out immediately, what help does that bring if things are in trouble? You think they don't know that? I swear every armchair critic thinks devs are absolute morons that don't know what the problems are, there could very well be many incompetent people in Zeni (as can be seen by the rampant bugs), but its not like they don't know some of the problems. In addition, you make it sound like any of the people invited hold some kind of power or leverage, news flash, they don't. This summit will at best have a minor influence on things to come/what might happen, it is not some opportunity to make a massive shift in priorities. Its just not possible, you have to think realistically of what this could bring, which is simply put, minor influence on their future plans (hopefully beneficial minor influences). A company can't just turn on a dime.

In addition, more critiquing on "easy" solutions to problems that clearly current guilds Zeni listen to haven't been providing... let me *eyeroll* that. Anything you think is easy... it isn't. None of the problems with this game have easy solutions. People somehow thing the lag and server crashes should be easy to fix... that is terribly unlikely. Anything people have suggested likely takes a huge amount of resources and the current architecture may just not be able to afford it, it is not a simple problem. Neither is anything else like aoe caps or anything else people complain about. They have many factors they have to deal with, slightly changing aoe caps suddenly makes every ability drastically different. The whole game's balanced around these caps... changing them will completely throw current balance out the window... that would be disastrous if they don't take their time in making sure any change is well tested (they are testing aoe cap changes currently).


I realize I could keep going, but no one will read and why bother. My point is, you need to think about things objectively and realistically. It's absolutely a joke and even partially insulting to think anyone has the right to walk in there and "demand" jack ***. I know gamers love to demand the sky and everything, but they never are realistic and instead like to spout oh "ded gaem." I have never, ever met a gaming community that didn't follow this rhetoric *** and its infuriating how unreasonable, short-sighted, and unrealistic you people can be. Everyone is a 12 year experienced developer who can design a better game/system because they took a basic intro to programming class in college

TLDR - ZoS favors AD

Got it!! lol

I'm glad someone read my post all the way through! Nailed it.

Desdemonte

Zintair wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

What I am about to say may come off as a little harsh, but understand I am not saying it to be mean or bring you down, just be honest with my opinion. Anywhere here goes:

If you wanted to know why maybe you did not get invited, this post is a perfect reason. You do not seem to understand what this summit is going to be. Doomsaying helps no one, making threats or demands also helps no one. You walk in claiming the game is dying they are going to kick you out immediately, what help does that bring if things are in trouble? You think they don't know that? I swear every armchair critic thinks devs are absolute morons that don't know what the problems are, there could very well be many incompetent people in Zeni (as can be seen by the rampant bugs), but its not like they don't know some of the problems. In addition, you make it sound like any of the people invited hold some kind of power or leverage, news flash, they don't. This summit will at best have a minor influence on things to come/what might happen, it is not some opportunity to make a massive shift in priorities. Its just not possible, you have to think realistically of what this could bring, which is simply put, minor influence on their future plans (hopefully beneficial minor influences). A company can't just turn on a dime.

In addition, more critiquing on "easy" solutions to problems that clearly current guilds Zeni listen to haven't been providing... let me *eyeroll* that. Anything you think is easy... it isn't. None of the problems with this game have easy solutions. People somehow thing the lag and server crashes should be easy to fix... that is terribly unlikely. Anything people have suggested likely takes a huge amount of resources and the current architecture may just not be able to afford it, it is not a simple problem. Neither is anything else like aoe caps or anything else people complain about. They have many factors they have to deal with, slightly changing aoe caps suddenly makes every ability drastically different. The whole game's balanced around these caps... changing them will completely throw current balance out the window... that would be disastrous if they don't take their time in making sure any change is well tested (they are testing aoe cap changes currently).


I realize I could keep going, but no one will read and why bother. My point is, you need to think about things objectively and realistically. It's absolutely a joke and even partially insulting to think anyone has the right to walk in there and "demand" jack ***. I know gamers love to demand the sky and everything, but they never are realistic and instead like to spout oh "ded gaem." I have never, ever met a gaming community that didn't follow this rhetoric *** and its infuriating how unreasonable, short-sighted, and unrealistic you people can be. Everyone is a 12 year experienced developer who can design a better game/system because they took a basic intro to programming class in college

TLDR - ZoS favors AD

Got it!! lol

Two thumbs up and a big toe! lol

Grunim

Tintinabula wrote: »

so who from EP?

I believe EP will have Gaiscioch, I'm not sure who else was invited.

Lfehova

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I'll keep them in mind at the summit.

As far as I can tell, the guilds attending the summit are those who have been providing valuable feedback on a continual organized basis since the early days of the game. Why would ZOS invited random players who may or may not give valuable information when they can invite representatives from guilds who have been giving valuable feedback for a long time?

I would assume since population seems to be on the decline, that these guilds who have been providing valuable feedback is clearly not enough, or not focused on the right things. It's clearly not working.

There are so many easy hack fixes. Multiple ways to stop the crashes on Thornblade. I wonder how many of these "valuable guilds" have suggested some easier to implement solutions. And how aggressive are these guilds pushing these ideas? I would be extremely firm with ZoS and explain the game is dying. Explain the reality to them, that stuff needs to be fixed. That these patches need to be programmed with scale in mind, to stop the crashing that happens, every, single, patch. Because pts testing doesn't mean jack cause it can't test population scaling.

How many of these valuable guild leaders have spent years studying programming and data structures? Or spent years leading organizations? Leading in game is great, but dealing with real people and professionals is a whole other monster.

I feel the people that have "been providing valuable feedback" have either been incompetent in pushing for what we need, or ZoS really just doesn't care.

Just my two cents, no offense to you trip or anyone else who has been trying to help. But it's clearly not working.

What I am about to say may come off as a little harsh, but understand I am not saying it to be mean or bring you down, just be honest with my opinion. Anywhere here goes:

If you wanted to know why maybe you did not get invited, this post is a perfect reason. You do not seem to understand what this summit is going to be. Doomsaying helps no one, making threats or demands also helps no one. You walk in claiming the game is dying they are going to kick you out immediately, what help does that bring if things are in trouble? You think they don't know that? I swear every armchair critic thinks devs are absolute morons that don't know what the problems are, there could very well be many incompetent people in Zeni (as can be seen by the rampant bugs), but its not like they don't know some of the problems. In addition, you make it sound like any of the people invited hold some kind of power or leverage, news flash, they don't. This summit will at best have a minor influence on things to come/what might happen, it is not some opportunity to make a massive shift in priorities. Its just not possible, you have to think realistically of what this could bring, which is simply put, minor influence on their future plans (hopefully beneficial minor influences). A company can't just turn on a dime.

In addition, more critiquing on "easy" solutions to problems that clearly current guilds Zeni listen to haven't been providing... let me *eyeroll* that. Anything you think is easy... it isn't. None of the problems with this game have easy solutions. People somehow thing the lag and server crashes should be easy to fix... that is terribly unlikely. Anything people have suggested likely takes a huge amount of resources and the current architecture may just not be able to afford it, it is not a simple problem. Neither is anything else like aoe caps or anything else people complain about. They have many factors they have to deal with, slightly changing aoe caps suddenly makes every ability drastically different. The whole game's balanced around these caps... changing them will completely throw current balance out the window... that would be disastrous if they don't take their time in making sure any change is well tested (they are testing aoe cap changes currently).


I realize I could keep going, but no one will read and why bother. My point is, you need to think about things objectively and realistically. It's absolutely a joke and even partially insulting to think anyone has the right to walk in there and "demand" jack ***. I know gamers love to demand the sky and everything, but they never are realistic and instead like to spout oh "ded gaem." I have never, ever met a gaming community that didn't follow this rhetoric *** and its infuriating how unreasonable, short-sighted, and unrealistic you people can be. Everyone is a 12 year experienced developer who can design a better game/system because they took a basic intro to programming class in college

Huntler. I think you're a competent person. And if we were allowed to vote, I'd vote you as a rep for ad. I think me and you could eloquently lay out the problems and pressing concerns, and would make a good team.

It may seem like doomsaying, but avoiding the reality is exactly what causes the kind of complacency at the workplace that dooms teams. I've had some of my teams fail, and every single time it was a complacency among members that nobody addressed.

How you turn things around, is by first accepting, that the [snip] has hitteth the fan.

And you eye roll, but my solution to the lag and crashes would have nothing to do with the servers or upgrading them. It would be understanding why, and since they cannot fix it the hardware way, to fix it by encouraging different things. For example, offering much higher rewards for playing on different campaigns, to spread out the population. If they don't want to go that direction, put a 30 sec cooldown on forward camps so zergballs can not constantly respawn. Or increase the static ap reward per person for taking a keep, so people are more inspired to spread out and hit more keeps. Or increase the value resources hold on the overall alliance war scoreboard, so people will fight for and defend resources more vigorously, which would spread the population of a campaign out into smaller groups.

Those are just to name a few I thought of in the past 30 seconds assuming the problem of lag and crashes happens when zergballs coagulate. And that ZoS cannot fix the architecture to solve those problems.

Sometimes, the solution to a weak vacuum cleaner, is to turn off the tv downstairs.

I get you don't like me, but this isn't about our personal differences.

P.s. I'm not a 12 year developer, I have been professionally in the field for three. +5 years of double majoring in it. But I have lead teams all my life.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Braidas

Arm+Aoe Barbecue > Hova+Huntler

Huntler

Lfehova wrote: »

I get you don't like me, but this isn't about our personal differences.

Just to be clear that is not the case at all hova, my opinion on things or disagreements don't influence how I feel about a person . I can happily disagree with people I like and vice versa (at least I try to not let in influence me )

Malarky

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

serenenightmare

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

Whoever they are....

Aeowyn

serenenightmare wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

Whoever they are....

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2014/08/06/guild-spotlight--mostly-harmless

Zintair

Desdemonte wrote: »

Also, I'd like to see a bit of focus put onto a more traditional raid style quest. Someone mentioned a non- timed one that is simply difficult to complete due to the mechanics of it, requiring a variety of character types.

This can never hap

serenenightmare wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

Whoever they are....

I didn't even realize they still played. I can say for certain those representing DC and EP as we know have me feeling extremely skeptical.

Seems like only PTS BETA guilds I know MH, Gaiosch were on there.

Davadin

Zintair wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

Also, I'd like to see a bit of focus put onto a more traditional raid style quest. Someone mentioned a non- timed one that is simply difficult to complete due to the mechanics of it, requiring a variety of character types.

This can never hap

serenenightmare wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

Whoever they are....

I didn't even realize they still played. I can say for certain those representing DC and EP as we know have me feeling extremely skeptical.

Seems like only PTS BETA guilds I know MH, Gaiosch were on there.

Who's on EP?

Zintair

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

Also, I'd like to see a bit of focus put onto a more traditional raid style quest. Someone mentioned a non- timed one that is simply difficult to complete due to the mechanics of it, requiring a variety of character types.

This can never hap

serenenightmare wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

Whoever they are....

I didn't even realize they still played. I can say for certain those representing DC and EP as we know have me feeling extremely skeptical.

Seems like only PTS BETA guilds I know MH, Gaiosch were on there.

Who's on EP?

Gaiosch I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly. Large RP casual guild. Remember them from Warhammer.

Braidas

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

I guess it's better than EG....but come on how often do you guys even PvP??

Manoekin

Braidas wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

I guess it's better than EG....but come on how often do you guys even PvP??

Oh god. Just imagine if Brandon had been invited to the summit.

And Hova I think you're a cool dude and all. I was just trying to get the point across like Huntler said that there's not going to be any sweeping reforms or anything going on because that's not the type of thing this is.

Here's an example: remember that fps bug that plagued the game for a few(I think it was 3) weeks after the lighting patch I think it was 1.2, but I could be wrong. That major, game-breaking bug was communicated directly to one of the ZOS people over TS minutes after the server came up and we first experienced it in pvp. Our character logs were checked to try and single out the bug, we tested out every different scenario with the ZOS rep on TS keeping them updated on if anything worked. It still took weeks to fix that bug. I'm sure the other guilds have similar situations that have happened, so when you say it's not enough to hear from these guilds it pisses me off. We work hard to make this game better.

Also for those wondering, yes Tripwyr is a 22 year old girl. She also enjoys RP.

Grunim

Zintair wrote: »

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

Also, I'd like to see a bit of focus put onto a more traditional raid style quest. Someone mentioned a non- timed one that is simply difficult to complete due to the mechanics of it, requiring a variety of character types.

This can never hap

serenenightmare wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

Whoever they are....

I didn't even realize they still played. I can say for certain those representing DC and EP as we know have me feeling extremely skeptical.

Seems like only PTS BETA guilds I know MH, Gaiosch were on there.

Who's on EP?

Gaiosch I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly. Large RP casual guild. Remember them from Warhammer.

Gaiscioch is the correct spelling. It's not a RP guild, it's a social gaming community.

Lfehova

Manoekin wrote: »

Braidas wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

I guess it's better than EG....but come on how often do you guys even PvP??

Oh god. Just imagine if Brandon had been invited to the summit.

And Hova I think you're a cool dude and all. I was just trying to get the point across like Huntler said that there's not going to be any sweeping reforms or anything going on because that's not the type of thing this is.

Here's an example: remember that fps bug that plagued the game for a few(I think it was 3) weeks after the lighting patch I think it was 1.2, but I could be wrong. That major, game-breaking bug was communicated directly to one of the ZOS people over TS minutes after the server came up and we first experienced it in pvp. Our character logs were checked to try and single out the bug, we tested out every different scenario with the ZOS rep on TS keeping them updated on if anything worked. It still took weeks to fix that bug. I'm sure the other guilds have similar situations that have happened, so when you say it's not enough to hear from these guilds it pisses me off. We work hard to make this game better.

Also for those wondering, yes Tripwyr is a 22 year old girl. She also enjoys RP.

Yeah it's my bad. The point may have been misconstrued in the text. I meant whether it is the guilds' faults for not trying hard enough OR ZoS fault for not listening or just incompetence, it is not working atm.

And it's exciting that you may get a chance to meet these ZoS employees in real life, and I just hope the people attending will have the balls to hold ZoS to their word. And call them out on their BS.

Like the fps bug. Something so game-breaking. Why in the world, when there was barely any content added. Was that patch NOT rolled back until it was fixed? I would love to question Brian Wheeler face to face. Man to man. And get a straight answer for a debacle that caused lots of the pvp population to rage quit.

If I was ZoS, I'd be afraid of having someone like me attend. Because I wouldn't sit and listen quietly and be spoonfed any of their BS. I'd focus the conversation on the problem, and force talks of solutions rather than fluff.

But that's probably why I'm not invited to the party

Manoekin

Lfehova wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Braidas wrote: »

Malarky wrote: »

Arowe_eso wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

So... how many EP guilds will be represented at this summit?

I'm wondering the same for dc.

Mostly Harmless has been invited from the DC PvP side.

I guess it's better than EG....but come on how often do you guys even PvP??

Oh god. Just imagine if Brandon had been invited to the summit.

And Hova I think you're a cool dude and all. I was just trying to get the point across like Huntler said that there's not going to be any sweeping reforms or anything going on because that's not the type of thing this is.

Here's an example: remember that fps bug that plagued the game for a few(I think it was 3) weeks after the lighting patch I think it was 1.2, but I could be wrong. That major, game-breaking bug was communicated directly to one of the ZOS people over TS minutes after the server came up and we first experienced it in pvp. Our character logs were checked to try and single out the bug, we tested out every different scenario with the ZOS rep on TS keeping them updated on if anything worked. It still took weeks to fix that bug. I'm sure the other guilds have similar situations that have happened, so when you say it's not enough to hear from these guilds it pisses me off. We work hard to make this game better.

Also for those wondering, yes Tripwyr is a 22 year old girl. She also enjoys RP.

Yeah it's my bad. The point may have been misconstrued in the text. I meant whether it is the guilds' faults for not trying hard enough OR ZoS fault for not listening or just incompetence, it is not working atm.

And it's exciting that you may get a chance to meet these ZoS employees in real life, and I just hope the people attending will have the balls to hold ZoS to their word. And call them out on their BS.

Like the fps bug. Something so game-breaking. Why in the world, when there was barely any content added. Was that patch NOT rolled back until it was fixed? I would love to question Brian Wheeler face to face. Man to man. And get a straight answer for a debacle that caused lots of the pvp population to rage quit.

If I was ZoS, I'd be afraid of having someone like me attend. Because I wouldn't sit and listen quietly and be spoonfed any of their BS. I'd focus the conversation on the problem, and force talks of solutions rather than fluff.

But that's probably why I'm not invited to the party

No worries. I agree with some of what you're saying. I'm sure the people going aren't going just to listen. They all want to give ZOS a piece of their mind regarding all of the issues, in person. Let's just hope ZOS listens to them.

LonePirate

Some if not most or all of the attendees should have arrived by now or will very soon. I hope you all enjoy your visit to the DC metro area if nothing else. I look forward to your updates in the coming days.

Auldjohn

I was not invited, but take issue with the disparaging remark that "some guild leaders will have no clue..."

I started Beta Testing ESO under NDA in July, 2013, have extensive experience beta testing business and gaming software, hardware, infrastructure, was a software developer and enterprise level project manager. I'm a retired IT Pro/Consultant to public utilities, healthcare, and Fortune 1000. Furthermore I'm a life long PC and CP/M gamer, especially RPGs.

As a co-founder and member of the leadership team of The Elder Sages Guild (TESG), I am a position to state emphatically that our guild membership is knowledgeable, experienced in solo and MMOs, with international membership, playing in the NA, EU, and PTS megaservers. We were honored to participate in the closed Beta and continue to provide extensive, detailed, bug reports and feedback. Our membership is typical of many experienced Guilds.

ZOS is neither floundering nor failed. ESO is one of the most successful, massive game launches, and introduced megaserver technology. The Elder Scrolls series from Bethesda Studios was awarded the Golden Joystick Award for Best Game Series of the Decade! ESO continues that excellence.

My immediate feedback for the Guild Summit, which I hope attendees share, is to continue to expand ESO areas, but be certain to include areas and adventures for casual and solo gaming.

In closing, and as a new member of the "Loyalty Program" my six month subscription will be renewed and you'll continue to see me from time to time in Tamriel! Our guild's unofficial motto is however and whenever you play, Have Fun!!

--Auldjohn, Co-Founder and Master Sage, The Elder Sages Guild, www.eldersages.com

Braidas

Auldjohn wrote: »

I was not invited, but take issue with the disparaging remark that "some guild leaders will have no clue..."

I started Beta Testing ESO under NDA in July, 2013, have extensive experience beta testing business and gaming software, hardware, infrastructure, was a software developer and enterprise level project manager. I'm a retired IT Pro/Consultant to public utilities, healthcare, and Fortune 1000. Furthermore I'm a life long PC and CP/M gamer, especially RPGs.

As a co-founder and member of the leadership team of The Elder Sages Guild (TESG), I am a position to state emphatically that our guild membership is knowledgeable, experienced in solo and MMOs, with international membership, playing in the NA, EU, and PTS megaservers. We were honored to participate in the closed Beta and continue to provide extensive, detailed, bug reports and feedback. Our membership is typical of many experienced Guilds.

ZOS is neither floundering nor failed. ESO is one of the most successful, massive game launches, and introduced megaserver technology. The Elder Scrolls series from Bethesda Studios was awarded the Golden Joystick Award for Best Game Series of the Decade! ESO continues that excellence.

My immediate feedback for the Guild Summit, which I hope attendees share, is to continue to expand ESO areas, but be certain to include areas and adventures for casual and solo gaming.

In closing, and as a new member of the "Loyalty Program" my six month subscription will be renewed and you'll continue to see me from time to time in Tamriel! Our guild's unofficial motto is however and whenever you play, Have Fun!!

--Auldjohn, Co-Founder and Master Sage, The Elder Sages Guild, www.eldersages.com

that's cool and all but you're in the alliance war section of the forums, for PvP, which is continuously broken to ***. that you played in beta does not bare any relevance to the current discussion and does not at all indicate you understand the game's meta - i dont know why people keep bringing it up. looking at the state of PvP, to say it is not floundering...well you just dont know what you're talking about.

please go back to pve land mr "fortune 1000" ahaha

Auldjohn

P.S.: PvE, PvE, PvE... stuff for casual gamers, crafters, build your own house, and solo areas, solo opportunities for advancement. (Bring more Elder Scrolls series type play into ESO, to complement PvP and VR content, thus providing something for everyone). Improve "search for Group" functionality.