Texture Quality

Davadin

Hello,

I'm using Windows 8.1 with Nvidia Geforce 660Ti, running 1680x1050 Ultra (well, actually CUSTOM since I picked Ultra, then bump up the water level too).

I also had a break for a month and just returned to the game last week, the post-1.3 world.

My problem is, why are the texture of the game much much worse? To be specific, the armor and world texture is noticeably uglier than before. The *FACE* however, seems to be as sharp as usual. Just not the armor. I'm not 100% sure about the world, but I do know one of my fav hobby was to zoom in to other players to check out the details of their gear. It's very pretty.

Then a patch to "tweak" the design came, and then v1.3 patch came. Now I'm back in-game and the armour looks like... they're medium quality at best. Not high, not ultra high. (Subsampling also goes as far as High btw, there is no Ultra-High).

I tried forcing it through the Nvidia driver, I tried checking out the userSettings.ini, but nothing really helps so far.

Can somebody help?

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey @dsoegiartob16_ESO‌, do you happen to be the same guy that posted screenshots about this issue over at Tamriel Foundry? Just asking so we can use those screenshots as reference, but if not, then just ignore this entire sentence.

babylon

Tweak the usersettings.txt file (found in Elder Scrolls - Live) from -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0"

to -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"

If your computer can handle it, it looks great.

Attorneyatlawl

babylon wrote: »

Tweak the usersettings.txt file (found in Elder Scrolls - Live) from -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0"

to -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"

If your computer can handle it, it looks great.

Just to note, 0 corresponds to "high" in-game. Using negative values brings it beyond what the in-game options normally allow, and does indeed look fantastic.

Regarding the subsampling setting, it is only supposed to go to "high". Low corresponds to 1/4 normal resolution (half on each axis' native res.); medium corresponds to half resolution (three fourths of each axis' native res.); high corresponds to native resolution (no subsampling used). Anything further would be supersampling, which ESO has never provided for.

Elf_Boy

How much ram does your 660ti have?

BCBasher

I'm running an older system with a 2g 750ti. Along with having to dial back my video settings in general post 1.3 I'm getting the armor LODs hanging at low or medium even though my textures are on high. I changed the user settings file and they loaded in high but my fps get unplayable in pve even. The level of detail loaded quicker before 1.3 for me and only got half way back after the fix for 1.3. I get better fps in windowed fullscreen like beta/release but have the tearing that goes with it. I like the game so I deal but i think something was optimized better for at least certain setups before the patch.

Lopyturiac

I've also had a texture issue, in that case that was after a NVIDIA driver update.

I've had to use the 'GeForce experience' tools and its 'optimize game' to get back the actual ultra level. It looks like the driver update had overwrite some kind of parameters.

Attorneyatlawl

Deleted (editing).

Ethoir

@ZOS_GinaBruno I don't know about the OP, but I have it captured on video. You can use this. Once I noticed this texture quality downgrade happening to me when I'm very close to NPCs, I couldn't stop noticing it. It got on my nerves.

The trick @Babylon posted is a workaround that forces it into ultra level textures, but to keep it that way you have to mark the UserSettings.txt file as read-only otherwise the game will just reset that config setting to default (usually 0, aka High).

Watch in 720p.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHQ2WNoS95o

Settings: High preset
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270x
Video memory: 4 GB
Graphics Driver: Catalyst Control Center 14.4
System RAM: 8 GB
OS: Win7 Pro 64-bit

Catalyst Control Center Settings:
AA Mode - Use Application Settings
AA Samples - Use Application Settings
Filter - Standard
AA Method - Multisampling
Morphological Filtering - Off
AF Mode - Use Application Settings
AF Level - Use Application Settings
Texture Filtering Quality - Standard
Surface Format Optimization - On
Wait for Vertical Refresh - On, unless specified
OpenGL Triple Buffering - On
Tessellation Mode - Use Application Settings
Maximum Tessellation Level - Use Application Settings

Davadin

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey @dsoegiartob16_ESO‌, do you happen to be the same guy that posted screenshots about this issue over at Tamriel Foundry? Just asking so we can use those screenshots as reference, but if not, then just ignore this entire sentence.

YES INDEED!

Here's my update to that thread and I will link here as well. I have found the issue And from quick looking at it, the video above seems to have it as well!!

Let me know if you need any further info.

FROM TF THREAD:
I found the bug.

No, the .ini edit did not fix it. Yes, it does make a difference in the quality of the texture indeed.... but I have found (and able to reproduce) an even bigger bug. I knew I wasn't going crazy.



Scenario: Level of detail when look from a far should be lower than when look closely. As user views an object closer, the level of details increases. This is mostly/often controlled by the Anisotropic Filtering (AF). Basically, the 2 biggest graphic details in 3D is AA and AF; AA is the anti-jagged, and AF is the texture details. In ESO particularly, there's a noticeable lag when this "texture quality adjustment" is happening. And indeed, I see it happen.

Problem: In-game, when look from a far the texture is (as far as my eyes can see) is pretty basic. As I zoomed in, it becomes sharper. but it always hit a certain sharpness and it doesn't get better. At least, a lot less than pre-patch 1.3 for me. Then I noticed the issue. It DID went really good but THEN it reverts back, for Vivec-knows-why.

Steps to reproduce: If I zoomed in FAST enough; for example, with fixed distance from my character, I run into a character until their texture is super zoomed in on my screen. (Because running is faster than scrolling your mouse wheel). THEN YOU WILL SEE THE MAGIC: The texture actually goes better, MUCH better for a second or so, *THEN* it reverts back.

In analogy; in meters (5-meters 0-inyoface) vs quality (0-bad 5-good); it should've been:

5-0, 4-1, 3-2, 2-3, 1-4, 0-5.

Instead, it's actually (roughly)

5-0, 4-1, 3-2, 2-4, 1-5, 0-0.

As I write this, I haven't tried forcing AF x16 through Nvidia driver, but maybe that'll help? But the .ini nor in-game settings doesn't help at all.

And here's the screenshot to prove it. All pics are when I run through a character until they're zoomed in. The first is the IMMEDIATE pic, the second is the ADJUSTED pic after 1-1.5 seconds (you can see they're the AFTER pic as the BEFORE doesn't have the "screenshot saved" text on top right corner)

Texture of cowl/hoodie:

BEFORE:

AFTER:

Cowl and armor:

BEFORE:

AFTER:

The guild shirt thingie....

BEFORE:

AFTER:

Davadin

Ethoir wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno I don't know about the OP, but I have it captured on video. You can use this. Once I noticed this texture quality downgrade happening to me when I'm very close to NPCs, I couldn't stop noticing it. It got on my nerves.

The trick @Babylon posted is a workaround that forces it into ultra level textures, but to keep it that way you have to mark the UserSettings.txt file as read-only otherwise the game will just reset that config setting to default (usually 0, aka High).

Watch in 720p.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHQ2WNoS95o

Settings: High preset
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270x
Video memory: 4 GB
Graphics Driver: Catalyst Control Center 14.4
System RAM: 8 GB
OS: Win7 Pro 64-bit

Catalyst Control Center Settings:
AA Mode - Use Application Settings
AA Samples - Use Application Settings
Filter - Standard
AA Method - Multisampling
Morphological Filtering - Off
AF Mode - Use Application Settings
AF Level - Use Application Settings
Texture Filtering Quality - Standard
Surface Format Optimization - On
Wait for Vertical Refresh - On, unless specified
OpenGL Triple Buffering - On
Tessellation Mode - Use Application Settings
Maximum Tessellation Level - Use Application Settings

YES dude! Exactly! Man I should've posted a video too. Same thing happening to my 660Ti. Yes it has enough beef to run everything Ultra-High. I kept it Ultra-high (+High Water) even in 100vs100 fight in AvA. (yes it drops like 25-35FPS but it looks hella awesome)

Glad to know it's not just an Nvidia problem.

Ethoir

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

YES dude! Exactly! Man I should've posted a video too. Same thing happening to my 660Ti. Yes it has enough beef to run everything Ultra-High. I kept it Ultra-high (+High Water) even in 100vs100 fight in AvA. (yes it drops like 25-35FPS but it looks hella awesome)

Glad to know it's not just an Nvidia problem.

If it was happening to me and my AMD GPU and you with an NVidia GPU regardless of the drivers for our cards, it could happen to anyone. Wither they notice it is up to how close they examine the environment. But those who do notice it are going to be irritated by it.

And the more information we provide for the staff, the more information they are armed with to correct it.

Greatfellow

babylon wrote: »

Tweak the usersettings.txt file (found in Elder Scrolls - Live) from -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0"

to -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"

If your computer can handle it, it looks great.

THIS WORKED AMAZINGLY FOR ME. THANKS SO MUCH. MY GTX 780 WAS JUST BEGGING FOR MORE.

Okay, i'll quit shouting and hopping around. But, WHY THE H E L L doesn't ESO have a setting for that, since it's available.

Davadin

Greatfellow wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Tweak the usersettings.txt file (found in Elder Scrolls - Live) from -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0"

to -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"

If your computer can handle it, it looks great.

THIS WORKED AMAZINGLY FOR ME. THANKS SO MUCH. MY GTX 780 WAS JUST BEGGING FOR MORE.

Okay, i'll quit shouting and hopping around. But, WHY THE H E L L doesn't ESO have a setting for that, since it's available.

Unstable? Could be why.

But back on-topic, @Ethoir‌ yes, glad we can give examples. I'm sure ZOS noticed it but we'll just have to wait and see what comes out of it.

Looks like we're the 1% players who stop and check out the beautiful details of the game? :disagree:

PS: And just to remind everyone, I didn't notice this issue before v1.3. Maybe it's just me, maybe not.

Voodoo

/\ ..to tell you the truth guys/gals ..I cant see any difference in those pictures. ..The video I can see it revert back but those pictures look exactly the same ...or not enough difference to really make any difference.

Theres noticing the beauty then theres ..noticing any small inperfections in the beauty. ...you are the 1% but not because you check out the beautiful parts of the game but because you look for the imperfections. ...good or bad? thats a personal opinion.

Hopefully they can tweak it to your perfection?

Davadin

Voodoo wrote: »

/\ ..to tell you the truth guys/gals ..I cant see any difference in those pictures. ..The video I can see it revert back but those pictures look exactly the same ...or not enough difference to really make any difference.

Theres noticing the beauty then theres ..noticing any small inperfections in the beauty. ...you are the 1% but not because you check out the beautiful parts of the game but because you look for the imperfections. ...good or bad? thats a personal opinion.

Hopefully they can tweak it to your perfection?

if you cant see the difference then u got an issue.

tips: look at the texture of what's mentioned. everything else looks great, i agree.

Ethoir

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

But back on-topic, @Ethoir‌ yes, glad we can give examples. I'm sure ZOS noticed it but we'll just have to wait and see what comes out of it.

Looks like we're the 1% players who stop and check out the beautiful details of the game? :disagree:

PS: And just to remind everyone, I didn't notice this issue before v1.3. Maybe it's just me, maybe not.

Reminds me. Did you try forcing AF x16 to see if that does anything yet?

Davadin

Ethoir wrote: »

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

But back on-topic, @Ethoir‌ yes, glad we can give examples. I'm sure ZOS noticed it but we'll just have to wait and see what comes out of it.

Looks like we're the 1% players who stop and check out the beautiful details of the game? :disagree:

PS: And just to remind everyone, I didn't notice this issue before v1.3. Maybe it's just me, maybe not.

Reminds me. Did you try forcing AF x16 to see if that does anything yet?

I did. Didn't change. The game still auto-adjust (and re-adjust negatively) as if I didn't change anything.

Hmmm maybe changing the .ini's MIP_LOAD_LEVEL to -3 *and then* set the file to READ ONLY?

Rune_Relic

+1... have exactly the same problem on my 770gtx
will try the -3 tonight.

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO

I have been having this issue for many months now. Quite annoying watching other peoples armor "pop" into resolution a few seconds after focusing the camera on them.

Nvidia 770 GTX here.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks very much for the repro steps, guys! We'll pass this along so the team can check it out.

Davadin

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »

I have been having this issue for many months now. Quite annoying watching other peoples armor "pop" into resolution a few seconds after focusing the camera on them.

Nvidia 770 GTX here.

Just to be clear; I don't mind the armor "pop" into more details a little later after zooming in....

The issue is that it "pop back out" to low resolution AFTER the high resolution kick in... see video above.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks very much for the repro steps, guys! We'll pass this along so the team can check it out.

Awesome. Always great to hear official responses. Thanks.

It's not a critical issue when I got 200 people on-screen spamming circle of fire in AvA, *but* I do like my downtimes every now and then, and it's quite immersion breaking....

"Greetings, traveller! Please help us as the undead have ris...*PIXELATEDARMORTEXTUREFROM1990SVIDEOGAME*...en from their resting place and *MYARMORISCRAPBUTFACEISGOODSOPERHAPSONEOFYOURGLASSESLENSJUSTPOPOUT* assaulting our fair village"

Attorneyatlawl

Yep I've been using the -3 setting since launch, it looks amazing and I don't know why it's not been able to be set in-game like some other options aren't as well. I'd like to see them add things like that, 3rd-person fov/camera zoom, etc. to the options . Another one is setting ultra shadow distance but low-res shadows which improves performance and looks really good still.

The "lowering texture MIP after zooming in/out" sounds like a glitch in the LOD settings based on camera distance/frustum to me, not this specific setting however.

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »

I have been having this issue for many months now. Quite annoying watching other peoples armor "pop" into resolution a few seconds after focusing the camera on them.

Nvidia 770 GTX here.

Got home and updated the usersettings.txt file to SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3" and the problem was fixed....glorious high resolution!

Elf_Boy

The texture problem also seems to be system specific as well. Wonder what the key trigger is, vram - gpu type, os or what?

I know this is very basic have you verified resolution, refresh rate etc are optimal and supported by your monitors?

I always like the best looking game I can have - even to having lower frame rates - and the '-3' did not seem to change anything for me.

Paske

babylon wrote: »

Tweak the usersettings.txt file (found in Elder Scrolls - Live) from -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0"

to -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"

If your computer can handle it, it looks great.

Most people here ignore this.

Just use what the man said and enjoy quality textures through the game,

You can always play with -1 , -2, -3 - if you are having performance issues.

Basically it tells ESO which texture quality to use initially . There are 3 levels and at level -3 is high res texture.

babylon

Paske wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Tweak the usersettings.txt file (found in Elder Scrolls - Live) from -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "0"

to -

SET MIP_LOAD_SKIP_LEVELS "-3"

If your computer can handle it, it looks great.

Just use what the man said

What the *woman said

babylon

Elf_Boy wrote: »

the '-3' did not seem to change anything for me.

It makes a huge difference on my computer, though I'm running an i7 2600k and a gtx780sc acx.

There's no texture pops (all textures load up at max). Metal looks all shiny and you can see stitching and weave in fabrics.

Attorneyatlawl

babylon wrote: »

Elf_Boy wrote: »

the '-3' did not seem to change anything for me.

It makes a huge difference on my computer, though I'm running an i7 2600k and a gtx780sc acx.

There's no texture pops (all textures load up at max). Metal looks all shiny and you can see stitching and weave in fabrics.

[*img]http://s4.imgload.info/fbfvhxnw683hd3f.png[/img]

Same here, I have been using it ever since I became aware of it around launch. I run an i7 2600k, 16gb ddr3, 3840x2160 (4k res) 60hz ips monitor (Dell UP2414Q), ssd, and was on a gtx 780 "ftw" acx (but I sold that and am buying a pair of GTX 980's as soon as they launch which is supposed to be sep. 18th, since the 780 couldn't cut it at 4k for me). It makes an enormous quality difference and is another one of those options that should be accessible in-game, but are not. Others include skill screen transitions, maximum framerate (via minimum frame time setting), camera options (clamped and reverted automatically even though it can be changed in the usersettings file ), and high-res/low-res shadows independent of shadow draw distances. All but the camera options can be set and are retained by the game.

An example of what, if the camera settings weren't automatically reverted by the game despite existing in the usersettings file already, would be possible is this:

Davadin

I think people are still mixing up the 2 issues.
1. The game auto-adjust the texture depending on distance. This is good for most people, but for some (like myself and @Ethoir‌ ) at the closest distance, the texture quality drops again.
2. The basic High/Med/Low Texture settings can be "tweaked" to gives you an "Ultra" settings. This is the MIP_LOAD_LEVEL, where 3 is low, 2 is med, 0 is high (approx), so if you go to the negatives (-1, -2, -3) is will go even higher. This is the Mip-map level loading, which effectively affects issue #1 above using the distance calculation.

Combining the 2, my best guestimate is this:
Say your MIP_loadlevel is 3. With far distance, your overall texture compression with Anisitropic Filtering is at 30% / 3. So you only get 10% quality. As your distance gets closer, the game increases the available texture to, say, 60%, divide by X+3 to get 20% quality.
But if your MIP level is 2, then at far distance you get 30%/2 = 15%. So medium gets you 30% etc... The lower the load_level the higher texture you get.

This is why going to -3, using some kind of formula that uses the load_level as the denominator, it's possible to have 100% texture.

But unknown to me, maybe the game formula cap it -3, because there no discenrable changes at -4. Maybe at that point, it's already 100% texture.
IF you want to have fun, try using 7 and it's like playing a game from 1999.... :disagree:

Now, the issue that me and Ethoir having is, for whatever reason, the texture provided by the game (the %) got whacky at the closest distance... so no matter the load_level is, if the texture provided is crap, it's still crap....


That's my guess anyway

ZOS_GinaBruno

Just to follow up, we did see the same issue internally and will roll out a fix as soon as we have one. Thanks again for the excellent repro steps, it helped a lot!