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Another round of layoffs :(
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Srugzal✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »We really are grasping at straws for things to complain about, aren't we?
This is the first forum where I've seen a companies hiring/firing practices scrutinized. Unless you're an investor in Zenimax, this doesn't concern you. Period.
Since when is anything about this game, including the business plans of the company, not our business? Holy crap, Batman.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »We really are grasping at straws for things to complain about, aren't we?
This is the first forum where I've seen a companies hiring/firing practices scrutinized. Unless you're an investor in Zenimax, this doesn't concern you. Period.
Since when is anything about this game, including the business plans of the company, not our business? Holy crap, Batman.
Layoffs, hirings, firings, janitorial staff disputes, etc. are not the players' concern. We're not investors or shareholders. We have nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of the actual corporate entity that is Zenimax. These things have nothing to do with the development of the game until someone from the company says that the development of the game will be impacted. Until then, you're just making things up in order to fuel the unfounded fears of people who don't know any better.
Layoffs happen. There's nothing sinister here, and I'm amazed the moderators even allow threads about this drivel.----
Murray?4 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭driosketch wrote: »
You say that like it's a rare find.
Ahhh.WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »As said its nothing out of the ordinary you hire more staff during your busy period and let them go when things aren't as hectic. I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp?
Not being hectic (as you put it) is something to worry about. You don't lay off staff if your game/company is doing well!!
Or you know you see that you have 5 millions beta testers so you look at market trends and expect around 2 million players playing within the first month and then the market trends and the normal reduction of players. Expect to have around 1 million players left after 3 months so you hire enough to take care of 2.5 million players then let go those workers once the initial buzz dies down and your playerbase evens out. You know...like a normal business would.
I actually want you to be right, cause I love this game. Would just be a shame if it goes down the pan like many others.
Well you know, layoffs are always good for any developer, look at all the other games that succeeded after layoffs.... oh wait....
IIRC, a lot of major studios (even big names like Bungie, Rockstar, and Epic) have often had layoffs after a big release. It just means that a game is finished and they don't need the full development team anymore.
The only thing I'm worried about are the console versions. There have been a lot of troubling signs on that front that leave me worried that they're not going to be coming out.
Another person who didn't play Defiance.....
No, not rare at all.
Mostly just the latest Titanic-like awesome release that turned into an oil slick and some deck cargo on the ocean.... [Edited to add that this statement is specifically aimed at Defi, only. I do not in any way want to imply that I'm claiming ESO is another Defi. But there isn't any cosmic source that can say that it will not be another Defi....].
I loved Defi, I really like this one. I don't want either to die, but there's nothing I can do besides cringe when they do stuff for short term gains while ignoring the amputated long term rewards.Edited by twev on September 4, 2014 3:45AMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭driosketch wrote: »
You say that like it's a rare find.
Ahhh.WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »As said its nothing out of the ordinary you hire more staff during your busy period and let them go when things aren't as hectic. I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp?
Not being hectic (as you put it) is something to worry about. You don't lay off staff if your game/company is doing well!!
Or you know you see that you have 5 millions beta testers so you look at market trends and expect around 2 million players playing within the first month and then the market trends and the normal reduction of players. Expect to have around 1 million players left after 3 months so you hire enough to take care of 2.5 million players then let go those workers once the initial buzz dies down and your playerbase evens out. You know...like a normal business would.
I actually want you to be right, cause I love this game. Would just be a shame if it goes down the pan like many others.
Well you know, layoffs are always good for any developer, look at all the other games that succeeded after layoffs.... oh wait....
IIRC, a lot of major studios (even big names like Bungie, Rockstar, and Epic) have often had layoffs after a big release. It just means that a game is finished and they don't need the full development team anymore.
The only thing I'm worried about are the console versions. There have been a lot of troubling signs on that front that leave me worried that they're not going to be coming out.
Another person who didn't play Defiance.....
No, not rare at all.
Mostly just the latest Titanic-like awesome release that turned into an oil slick and some deck cargo on the ocean....
I loved Defi, I really like this one. I don't want either to die, but there's nothing I can do besides cringe when they do stuff for short term gains while ignoring the amputated long term rewards.
They are already working on patch 1.6, 1.4 is nearly done and 1.5 is probably coming 2 after that. From what I've seen, they are doing just fine.0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Im guessing noone read the article - I hadnt . No I did. Here is a very relevant paragraph copy and pasted
"Now that the game is out and a community has been built around it, the publisher saw the need to "adjust staffing" accordingly, also reassuring that the studio "continues to operate with a large work force."
"We remain strongly committed to The Elder Scrolls Online, and continue to invest heavily to develop new content for PC and Mac players, prepare the game for its console launch, and handle our planned expansion into important international territories," Bethesda said of the game's future."
/end thread
This statement exists only to reassure the investors and the subscribers; there is really no information here that hadn't been around before. And yes, I'd say that a good many of us read it. The point seems to be that you accept this press release at face value. But not everyone does.
I hope it's true, I want it to be true. Call me cynical, but I'm sure the company is counting on many of us feeling that way.
Lets check that statement out "reassure the investors"
Who are you talking about its a private equity company we have no idea who they are - This is different to Blizzard which is publicly listed through its whoever parent (I forgotten)
"Press release at face value"
Yes when the OP refers to it as proof of something without reading it. Its a normal part of the cycle. If you want to argue that is your business - this is the internet your able to have whatever opinion you like. Others may join you as well. You can point to the sky and cool it green - water and call it dry. It won't change the facts.
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Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Here are the only bits of information that we can consider to be facts
1. ZOS is a private company and not required to release any information whatsoever about the game's financial health
2. Layoffs are part of everyday corporate life and do not necessarily mean anything. In other words we do not have the information to infer anything from the news
3. We do not know subscriber numbers so we do not even know if the game is a success
4. They have already developed Update 4 with up to Update 6 planned
Notice how none of those facts (if i havent missed one) relates to company health or Game Economics.
Thought I'd restate the facts1 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »driosketch wrote: »
You say that like it's a rare find.
Ahhh.WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »WylieCoyote1511 wrote: »montgomery.luke07b16_ESO wrote: »As said its nothing out of the ordinary you hire more staff during your busy period and let them go when things aren't as hectic. I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp?
Not being hectic (as you put it) is something to worry about. You don't lay off staff if your game/company is doing well!!
Or you know you see that you have 5 millions beta testers so you look at market trends and expect around 2 million players playing within the first month and then the market trends and the normal reduction of players. Expect to have around 1 million players left after 3 months so you hire enough to take care of 2.5 million players then let go those workers once the initial buzz dies down and your playerbase evens out. You know...like a normal business would.
I actually want you to be right, cause I love this game. Would just be a shame if it goes down the pan like many others.
Well you know, layoffs are always good for any developer, look at all the other games that succeeded after layoffs.... oh wait....
IIRC, a lot of major studios (even big names like Bungie, Rockstar, and Epic) have often had layoffs after a big release. It just means that a game is finished and they don't need the full development team anymore.
The only thing I'm worried about are the console versions. There have been a lot of troubling signs on that front that leave me worried that they're not going to be coming out.
Another person who didn't play Defiance.....
No, not rare at all.
Mostly just the latest Titanic-like awesome release that turned into an oil slick and some deck cargo on the ocean....
I loved Defi, I really like this one. I don't want either to die, but there's nothing I can do besides cringe when they do stuff for short term gains while ignoring the amputated long term rewards.
They are already working on patch 1.6, 1.4 is nearly done and 1.5 is probably coming 2 after that. From what I've seen, they are doing just fine.
Just for the sake of info, Defi released 5 DLCs (many towards the last minute of the 1st year that they had claimed for 5 DLCs) that were mostly incomplete development projects that had been in progress when they fired most of the staff right after launch.
They spent that year touting all the material they had in planned development, that in reality was all the stuff they had in the pipeline for actual release that wasn't finished in time.
I'm not saying this is sinister in iteself, but having stuff in the pipeline doesn't mean that any bit of it is recent as opposed to leftovers.
Defi's prob was that they had already layed off all the people who were working on that content, and there was no one left who knew what was going on or what strings pulled what stuff inside the prog to make it all work,
Truth to tell, I'd much rather pay for a monthly sub, as I do here at ESO, instead of that bogus 'buy the game, play free forever' scam that Defi tried to pull.
Defi going F2P was an horrific event for anyone who was hoping that it'd somehow pull itself out of the fire.
And I don't (really) regret my 6 month sub, as I want the game to have breathing room to grow. But my cup of confidence hasn't exactly been brimming for a while now, though I still hope they pull it out just the same.
[damn, I hate editing for speeling.]Edited by twev on September 4, 2014 4:01AMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭When they lay off half their staff, then you should worry. If they change their project leader, then you should worry, if they restructure their forum staff, then you should worry.
Just look at defiance. They changed their EP twice and then got rid of the title and propped up a developer as "creative lead" and he's pretty much run the game into the ground. They even went through a CEO change. Their forum staff got restructured after the previous team pretty much bombed as moderators and as community leaders.
When I start seeing those things with this game, then I'll start worrying about the sky falling. Since I haven't seen any of that "yet" I'm not too concerned about this.
I did get a kick out of the "running smoothly" comment though. It appears the disconnect goes all the way to the top.Edited by Arsenic_Touch on September 4, 2014 5:19AM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
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"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
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In the midst of all of this discussion, i played the beta, pre-ordered and have been playing ever since, community seems to remain strong except at certain times of the day. the outlook for content is promising. Thanks for making a game i enjoy so much.Selcouth Nexus V16 Templar Magika Healer/Dps
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Wolfshead✭✭✭✭Serious if ZoS think the can manage with less people that mean less expense but still keep high customer service and still can add patch in same speed the do now why but would you like to see go bankrupt instead just so the keep more people on pay roll @o_0??If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity1 -
farrier_ESO✭✭✭My bet: they laid off a bunch of 2D and 3D artists, animators, level designers, game designers, sysadmins, and so on. They already *have* all the sound effects, 3D meshes, textures, conversation trees, and so forth that they need, and then some. The reachabpe parts of the world are designed, as are all cave and building interiors.
They'll keep some resource creators and designers on, but there's no point keeping a bunch of people who have no current purpose on retainer just in case they're needed someday. That's just bad use of your income, and would be unhealthy for a company.
If you're a games developer, payroll is your biggest money sink, so you need to keep a tight rein on it.
They'll also be laying off some devs, and will be hiring maintainers to replace them. They can ease up on the system designers, because the system is designed. The DBAs don't need to be the same powerful force they were, because the DB is designed and tuned; it just needs to be maintained. A chunk of people responsible for maintaining all three server farms can be laid off, because now there's only two in the US, and one of those is the test system. Much less to maintain means less work, means less point paying so many people.
Sadly, this is the way of the AAA gaming business, now. It's not the reliable job it once was, where you'd have a job for a few years: instead, it's the kind of career where you work like stink on your job for a few months, then it's time get your résumé back in order and find another one. If you are in the industry, you see this pattern of boom-and-bust for hiring regularly: when any AAA project finishes, it suddenly becomes very hard to even get an interview because there are so many looking for work; then a few weeks pass and things become normal again.Yet another indie games programmer.
Upvote the change you want to see.0 -
Phantax✭✭✭✭✭
✭At the end of the day a smaller amount of staff/devs cannot make content and develop the game at the same pace as a larger amount of staff.
High Elf Sorcerer VR12 - Destro / Resto Staff
I'm a werewolf. If you vamps don't like it.... Bite me !
We're not retreating... we're advancing in a different direction !2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IIRC, a lot of major studios (even big names like Bungie, Rockstar, and Epic) have often had layoffs after a big release. It just means that a game is finished and they don't need the full development team anymore.
The only thing I'm worried about are the console versions. There have been a lot of troubling signs on that front that leave me worried that they're not going to be coming out.
From a developer point of view:
- The game needs a quite massive additional work in order to implement what's missing: a way to quest-level up to cap (every MMO has it except ESO), whole regions missing, a major PvP area to deliver, an entire end game to be re-thought and - by ZoS own statement, new crafting schools, new champion system and so on. Even just the last paragraph requires a large scale refactoring.
- Which "devs" did they lay off exactly? Because with the changes and additions listed above they really need almost the same professionalities they needed before game release, it's not just cosmetic features that are missing, it's entire chunks of the game.
- What's the size of the lay off "blocks"? Because in the various companies I have been, the turnover is gradual, they don't just kick out whole branches. A trickle in and out not a waterfall.
Because precedents are not encouraging. Even still succesfull MMO companies like CCP (EvE Online) had to fire blocks of developers and it always happened when issues were serious (in their case, some of massively failed expansions). To less succesful companies, it meant either a path down to F2P or to foreclosure.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Spottswoode✭✭✭✭✭At the end of the day a smaller amount of staff/devs cannot make content and develop the game at the same pace as a larger amount of staff.
That is dependent on the amount of content you need worked on. Having 75 people making the same map may not be as fast as having 7 people work on it. Having too many workers can be more cumbersome than not having enough. But since we don't know the numbers or nature of the layoffs we can't know either way.Edited by Spottswoode on September 4, 2014 6:29AMProud Player of The Elder Bank Screen Online.
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Current main PC build:
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Kos✭✭✭Wow, seeing posts like this makes me wonder if I play a game with gamers or with stockbrokers..3
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Martinus72✭✭✭✭Looks like normal business to me. Nothing to see here.
"The layoffs at ZeniMax Online were confirmed by Pete Hines, vice president of PR and marketing at publisher Bethesda Softworks. "As is the norm for games of this type, we had ramped up a large workforce to develop a game of vast scale, and ramped up our customer service to handle the expected questions and community needs of The Elder Scrolls Online at launch," he said in a statement sent to Joystiq. "Now that we are nearly 6 months post launch, we have a thriving online community in a game that runs smoothly."
"We remain strongly committed to The Elder Scrolls Online, and continue to invest heavily to develop new content for PC players, prepare the game for its console launch, and handle our planned expansion into important international territories," he said."
This says it all in this matter really.
But... There are quite few lurking these forums for anything to feed their theory of 'Eso is dying, everyone's left, game is unplayable' etc. so they're gonna thrive on this news
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Srugzal✭✭✭✭✭Im guessing noone read the article - I hadnt . No I did. Here is a very relevant paragraph copy and pasted
"Now that the game is out and a community has been built around it, the publisher saw the need to "adjust staffing" accordingly, also reassuring that the studio "continues to operate with a large work force."
"We remain strongly committed to The Elder Scrolls Online, and continue to invest heavily to develop new content for PC and Mac players, prepare the game for its console launch, and handle our planned expansion into important international territories," Bethesda said of the game's future."
/end thread
This statement exists only to reassure the investors and the subscribers; there is really no information here that hadn't been around before. And yes, I'd say that a good many of us read it. The point seems to be that you accept this press release at face value. But not everyone does.
I hope it's true, I want it to be true. Call me cynical, but I'm sure the company is counting on many of us feeling that way.
Lets check that statement out "reassure the investors"
Who are you talking about its a private equity company we have no idea who they are - This is different to Blizzard which is publicly listed through its whoever parent (I forgotten)
"Press release at face value"
Yes when the OP refers to it as proof of something without reading it. Its a normal part of the cycle. If you want to argue that is your business - this is the internet your able to have whatever opinion you like. Others may join you as well. You can point to the sky and cool it green - water and call it dry. It won't change the facts.
I'm seriously wondering about your reading comprehension, mate. The venture capital company is known, look at the company About page here:
http://www.zenimax.com/about
...which I've already linked to, and the press releases here:
http://www.zenimax.com/press
Note particularly the entry for Oct 6, 2010, and then look at the board of directors. You'll see that this information is quite public. There is nothing mysterious about this. And no, I'm not making any of this up.
As for "face value," what I take that to mean that was the poster's attitude. If it isn't, then it's up to him, not you, to say otherwise. When it comes to corporate dealings, it's wise not to take everything they say on faith. Or don't you agree with that, either?0 -
Srugzal✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »We really are grasping at straws for things to complain about, aren't we?
This is the first forum where I've seen a companies hiring/firing practices scrutinized. Unless you're an investor in Zenimax, this doesn't concern you. Period.
Since when is anything about this game, including the business plans of the company, not our business? Holy crap, Batman.
Layoffs, hirings, firings, janitorial staff disputes, etc. are not the players' concern. We're not investors or shareholders. We have nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of the actual corporate entity that is Zenimax. These things have nothing to do with the development of the game until someone from the company says that the development of the game will be impacted. Until then, you're just making things up in order to fuel the unfounded fears of people who don't know any better.
Layoffs happen. There's nothing sinister here, and I'm amazed the moderators even allow threads about this drivel.
A very harsh and mean-spirited reply, dude. You can't just stride about issuing orders and insults and addressing the crowd. Nobody is making anything up, and as long as I'm a subscriber I'd say that the way they run this business is definitely my business. You are entitled to your views of course, but you are not entitled to try to silence mine.
I liked the janitor thing, though. That really helped your point.1 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭At the end of the day a smaller amount of staff/devs cannot make content and develop the game at the same pace as a larger amount of staff.
Lucky they are not required to then.
The thing that took most effort - the core game architecture and design - is complete. From now on until the next major release, it's a case of refinement and bolting new content into an existing game.
Also, many project activities are not easily accelerated by adding resource. It's not a given that doubling resource halves time on all tasks.
It's perfectly normal to layoff staff once the main thrust of delivering any project is done. I'd be more worried if they retained the same headcount as it would point to inefficient working practices.
I must admit I did chuckle at the 'running smoothly' comment however, I think there's a certain amount of wishful thinking going on there.Edited by raglau on September 4, 2014 9:42AM1 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just for making things clear:
Companies do not announce layoffs if the people being let go are (or were) contract employees, temporary employees, or hired for a term contract that expired. This type of employee knows they are leaving eventually and are not laid off, they merely fulfil their contract or time or finally produce the contract work.
Employees that are hired and supposed to be full time without any contract and could have that job for the next 20 years are the ones that are laid off. Stop trying to put a spin on the press release by softening the meaning. The only reason these people are being laid off is because the company income can no longer support their employment.
If you do not work in business and know facts, please do not post your opinion, thinking you do. Speculate if you wish.
The IGN article where Bethesda confirmed the layoffs and reasons.
This reason for this post, is not my opinion, but too give correct info for us players, who wants to know how or if this effects ESO.
This post have 2 parts. First, what this really means. Second, the facts of my statement. The second part is not needed to read, if you are not interested in the facts or the reasons. Or you believe my first statement.
Part 1: What does this mean for ESO?
This is an article by IGN, where Bethesda confirms IGNs questions about layoffs, with a statement, explaining why.
IGN is a news and service company whom get business by getting as many "men" to visits to their pages as possible. IGN is owned by another company who wants to sell their products to this group.
IGNs job is to get as many hits on their site as possible. Spinning a story like this is sadly successful.
http://corp.ign.com/press/2013/j2-global-more-than-doubles-size-of-its-digital-media-business-with-acquisition-of-ign-entertainment.
See part 2 to understand the difference in information and sources.
Quick answer:
ESO is not effect by this info, and the ESO staff needed is still here, with the same status, plans and future. Go play! And enjoy grouping with your friends without almost no phasing problems.
The staff from Bethesda statement- The layoffs was staff hired to ensure that the PC version launched smoothly and to provide customer service that would "handle the expected questions and community needs of The Elder Scrolls Online at launch.
- This staff was needed to give us the ESO we have today. If they where needed for 4 or 12 months for a MMO launch, simply can not be predicted.
- Answering 100.000s of questions by phone, email and support page regarding Account payment, technical requirements, requirements to buy the game to play it, where to download, technical support like update drivers.
- Sorting bug reports and information why 50% of players can not log in, crash at character screen, etc, from complaints that it was not WoW V2, why you can not add a mod to give you unlimited gold like Skyrim. Replies that other players are allowed to "take" you ore node and it is not illegal, nor a bug.
- Mainly to give the DEVS as much correct information as possible, to work out MMO Launch problems, until the base is stable. And support calls was more about support for ESO.
Regular support and bug fixing are not among the same staff. Bugs fixing of all kinds of bugs, balance tweaking and support about certain Mac users who see "blue", etc, are are needed and still here.
The difference is, instead of 100.000 "contacts", support gets 5000 "contacts, which most are related to ESO. DEVS gets more "real" info to work with.
Only Zenimax Media Inc, knows why, who it concerns, the reasons and facts of Bethesda Softworks statement. No one else!
Conclusion what this means:
If what Bethesda stated is true, there is no change in the status of ESO and future plans.
Part 2:
Facts about Zenimax and global business.
This is how it works in big companies and businesses in the world.
"Layoffs" includes every person who in any way works for the company, and is not contracted to a certain date.
Since Zenimax Media Inc, is a private company, based in US, with US Laws. They decide 100% how to run their company. The US government are the only outside part whom Zenimax are required to provide information too.
Zenimax Media Inc, founded in 1999, is the main company over many branches and divisions, founded or acquired, since the start in 1999.
http://www.zenimax.com/about
To understand how large companies like Zenimax Media Inc works, is structured and what information, data and facts to believe. You need to understand business and search the net for "correct" data, or as close as possible. Looking who they compete with on a global scale, news about what company they buy, legal actions etc.
https://www.google.com/finance?cid=13929600&ei=8wQIVPGfBaHgwQPAk4CACw
http://web.archive.org/web/20001005160136/http://www.zenimax.com/profile3.html
Zenimax Media Inc, is run by a board of Directors, where one is Robert S. Trump, President, Trump Management, Inc.
For those who do not know the Trump organization, they are so big and run by Donald Trump who only aims to own the Universe, and he is on his way to do so.
Zenimax Media Inc employs 10.000s employers across the globe. With a "turnover" in billions of USD.
Zenimax Media inc main competitors are:
ELECTRONIC ARTS INC.
ACTIVISION BLIZZARD, INC.
UBISOFT ENTERTAINMENTZeniMax creates and publishes original interactive entertainment content for consoles, the PC, and handheld/wireless devices. Its Bethesda Softworks division, founded in 1986 in the early days of the industry, has a long history of success as a publisher of award-winning video games. In addition, the ZeniMax group includes some of the most acclaimed development studios in the world. The Company's growing library of intellectual properties includes such major franchises as The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Dishonored, DOOM, QUAKE, Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory, and RAGE.
This company is the "head" of all "sub" companies, including Bethesda and ZeniMax Online Studios LLC, who is "our Zeni, run by Matt Firor.
Why is this important? That is the reason, why Zenimax Online Studies is not "hit", or "cancel" a product like ESO, just because its "low" for a few months, even if that is not the case atm.
Matt Firor gets quite a lot of negative comments on these forums. He is the one who fights with the head company about how well ESO doing and makes sure consoles, ESO development, changes etc, are made, in a language that a Trump business would understand.
This is the reason why all this "free-to-play" nonsense, ESO fail, all negative and outright wrong reviews could be ignored by Zenimax. If a division, service or product is not working. It gets changed, sold or canceled.
ESO is still here, working, stable, got problems with server lag because of to many players.....
The many negative reviews from sites like IGN and others, are quite silent today, unless its a "story" to get readers.
If you read the IGN article, they mix Bethesda reply, with their own words, spinning it to look like ESO firing people. And hinting big problems. It works....as you can see in several posts in this tread.
The difference with large companies, like Zenimax and Blizzard. They can do what they want, "suffer" hits because they have a business plan and short term does not effects them as long as the longer term looks good.
Think about why Blizzard is hiring, while "loosing" MILLIONS of subs for a few months during this summer? They "know", they get business the next coming year.Edited by Cogo on September 4, 2014 10:20AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"5 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honest to God I am certain that a great part of this community and indeed gaming community will not be happy until the day Zenimax close the game down, so as they can do their little "I told you so" dance.
Everything means the sky is falling and the game is going to go f2p or close.
It's not. Deal with it.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
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Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!7 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honest to God I am certain that a great part of this community and indeed gaming community will not be happy until the day Zenimax close the game down, so as they can do their little "I told you so" dance.
Everything means the sky is falling and the game is going to go f2p or close.
It's not. Deal with it.
I agree with you....and I HATE to be one of those who use a comment like "I told you so".
Buuuuut. Looking back at my view and posts about ESO in may, june.....I TOLD YOU SO!
I'll save this thread and post in next year, when someone whines that housing got pushed back 2 weeks and ESO going F2P.
It wount!Edited by Cogo on September 4, 2014 10:24AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bosmern_ESO wrote: »I don't know if I should trust that article because they say the time between ESO and Skyrim is about 1000 years.
Skyrim takes place in the 4th era while ESO takes place in the 2nd era, thats 2000 not 1000. Not only that IGN is known to lie and take bribes.
It is always a good idea to know facts oneself before pointing out that others are wrong. The time perod between ESO and Skyrim is in fact a little less than 1000 years - 947, to be exact.1 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wonder if most of these people were contracted employees, all games hire them, then they are let go after the contract work is complete, they report it in a away it seems like a bad thing but it is just a normal business practice.
I guess time will tell, I think if ESO tanks, I might just give up on mmo's, and I have played them sinc the late 90's..:(Edited by kevlarto_ESO on September 4, 2014 10:43AM3 -
Moomins✭✭✭To those who have posted sensible answers regarding the IGN article on staff layoffs and explaining to the naysayers how business works - especially @Cogo - I salute you.
To everyone who has posted negative comments:
I wonder how many of the posters in this topic actually work in the gaming industry? I wonder how many posters understand the mechanics of getting a game up and running, and then maintaining it post launch (including updates, patches, new content, customer services etc)?
Does anyone understand how the core structure of the dev teams, customer services, art departments, story writing teams, and all the rest of the various departments involved in a game like this fit together?
And does anyone understand how as time goes by post launch, teams are downsized or upgraded depending on the requirements of the game - and yes that includes but is not restricted to the demands of the player base?
Departments are resized continually, adding more people when needed, and letting other staff members go when the pressures on a particular department ease off and reach stable levels.
The staffing levels at the launch and for several months post launch are always far higher than the company expects to maintain. The reason for this is to ensure a speedy, efficient and smooth launch (which never quite happens the way anyone expects - EVER), and then the staffing levels are slowly cut back until each department reaches its optimum staffing level - this is basic business sense, and ensures that the game runs properly, and that the games company can make acceptable profits.
To keep huge staffing numbers (that are surplus to requirement) on the payroll is not only stupid, it would mean the end of the game - OR - a massive raise in subscription costs to cover all those salaries...
Laying off staff that were only hired on short term contracts does not mean that a games company is in trouble. Only an untutored person would think that.
edit
Before anyone asks, I do not work in the gaming industry - but my partner is a senior member of a Dev team for another MMO.
Edited by Moomins on September 4, 2014 10:50AM
M'aiq the Liar"Dragons? Oh, they're everywhere! You must fly very high to see most of them, though. The ones nearer the ground are very hard to see, being invisible."6 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Moomins
Thank you sir!
My next glorious victory against impossible odds, will be in your honor!
Oghur, Orc heavy armor tank, with to much in game to do!
I never wore any sissy light armor crap to tank. Even since launch!Edited by Cogo on September 4, 2014 11:04AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
FlinkeKlinge✭✭✭I wasn´t really concerned by this article,
until i looked up the Jobs listing site, at zenimax.com.
A few weeks back, they where hiring for over 20 positions, from system admins to artists, for ESO.
Now that list got greatly reduced. So they not only laid off workers, they aren´t hiring new development related ones.
This indeed concerns me, a bit. "When you die, it just instantly robs life of many pleasures."
random guy in pub6 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlinkeKlinge wrote: »I wasn´t really concerned by this article,
until i looked up the Jobs listing site, at zenimax.com.
A few weeks back, they where hiring for over 20 positions, from system admins to artists, for ESO.
Now that list got greatly reduced. So they not only laid off workers, they aren´t hiring new development related ones.
This indeed concerns me, a bit.
Um....dude. The job list got less because people got HIRED!
And guess where some of them come from? The "laid off" people.Edited by Cogo on September 4, 2014 11:09AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1
