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fix nightblades or subscriptions will be lost very soon.
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Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
Absolute bullplop! Do you know how much healing you get from Mutagen and spamming funnel health? i've solo'd veteran dungeons with my nightblade pre nerf.
Well.. i'll tell you.. my health ticks at around 450-500 every 2 seconds'ish and that's perma sustainable.
Sure NBs dont have any fancy blazing shield or reflect nonsense. but in pure HoT WHILST pumping out 700 single target dps it does the job.Edited by Dekkameron on August 31, 2014 11:31AM- Veteran Combat Librarian -4 -
Nysticc✭✭✭What NBs need is a hard cc that doesn't require you to cloak.
Everyone uses magelight, what we're left with is something useless.
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Dekkameron wrote: »zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
Absolute bullplop! Do you know how much healing you get from Mutagen and spamming funnel health? i've solo'd veteran dungeons with my nightblade pre nerf.
Well.. i'll tell you.. my health ticks at around 450-500 every 2 seconds'ish and that's perma sustainable.
Sure NBs dont have any fancy blazing shield or reflect nonsense. but in pure HoT WHILST pumping out 700 single target dps it does the job.
funnel health/swallow soul mostly doesn't work as self heal due to perma blocking enemies.
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Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The last thing nightblades need is another buff
Seriously.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Desdemonte wrote: »zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
I disagree wholeheartedly from experience.
Let me guess:
Light Armour?
Resto Staff?
Wrong
Wrong
Edited by krim on August 31, 2014 2:00PM1 -
Synozeer✭✭✭✭✭IMO Nightblades are in a pretty good place now, with the exception of a few bug fixes (Vanish not working, Dark Cloak not removing more than 1 DoT, Strife not healing for correct amount, etc) and a few skills that need to be reworked (core mechanic of Haste not viable with animation cancelling a part of the game, Agony (need I say more?).
It also goes without saying that how Stamina and skills work in the game need an overhaul, which affects Nightblades as well.Edited by Synozeer on August 31, 2014 2:03PMWatch my PvP Videos on YouTube
Azoi - Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant - NA Server - 1st DC NA Grand Overlord
Hzarn - Templar - Daggerfall Covenant - NA Server - Grand Overlord
...and many more.1 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Halrloprillalar wrote: »No, I don't think NB need buffs. Fix the broken things but that's all
If you play any other class you will see the grass isn't greener (except DK, but we all knew that).
You really think its grass is green as a dk? To me a well played Temp is harder to take down... A well played snipe nb is crazy atm...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables1 -
Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
You mean just like yourself?
Talk about dismissive comments made with mindless ease, lol. Yours has taken the cake!
You're right, I don't know how to balance an MMO... and neither do you. Nor should I, the customer, have to know... that's ZOS' job.
So, hhmmm, where does that leave us? Oh, right:
- Zeni have changed the tooltip to read the unintended outcome rather than change the actual outcome of an ability, what, two or three times now?
- A plethora of NB abilities have been broken since beta, including Cloak and it's morphs, and are still no closer to a fix.
- Zenimax have become awfully quiet about their promises to have NBs fixed by several patches ago...
Not only do we not know how to balance an MMO... but clearly neither does Zos.
My original comment stands.
Edited by Grim13 on August 31, 2014 4:39PM0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
You mean just like yourself?
Talk about comments made with mindless ease, lol. Yours has taken the cake!
You're right, I don't know how to balance an MMO... and neither do you. Nor should I, the customer, have to know... that's ZOS' job.
So, hhmmm, where does that leave us? Oh, right:
- Zeni have changed the tooltip to read the unintended outcome rather than change the actual outcome of an ability, what, two or three times now?
- A plethora of NB abilities have been broken since beta, including Cloak and it's morphs, and are still no closer to a fix.
- Zenimax have become awfully quiet about their promises to have NBs fixed by several patches ago...
Not only do we not know how to balance an MMO... but clearly neither does Zos.
My original comment stands.
An evolving PVP game will always struggle with balance.. Human players will always find ways to exploit abilities in ways not intended to make them OP... Whenever they introduce more content we will see this... Just think about spell crafting coming in later on... this will create havoc in pvp for a while...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭The last thing nightblades need is another buff
Seriously.
NBs remind me of WoW feral druids back in the day. All you had to do is back into a corner and they could not kill you due to most dmg coming from positional requirements.
Hold block, you will defeat a NB 90% of the time.Edited by TheBull on August 31, 2014 4:39PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard2 -
Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
You mean just like yourself?
Talk about comments made with mindless ease, lol. Yours has taken the cake!
You're right, I don't know how to balance an MMO... and neither do you. Nor should I, the customer, have to know... that's ZOS' job.
So, hhmmm, where does that leave us? Oh, right:
- Zeni have changed the tooltip to read the unintended outcome rather than change the actual outcome of an ability, what, two or three times now?
- A plethora of NB abilities have been broken since beta, including Cloak and it's morphs, and are still no closer to a fix.
- Zenimax have become awfully quiet about their promises to have NBs fixed by several patches ago...
Not only do we not know how to balance an MMO... but clearly neither does Zos.
My original comment stands.
An evolving PVP game will always struggle with balance.. Human players will always find ways to exploit abilities in ways not intended to make them OP... Whenever they introduce more content we will see this... Just think about spell crafting coming in later on... this will create havoc in pvp for a while...
As per the thread, we're discussing NBs and the imbalances caused by failing to fix things that have been broken from BEFORE LAUNCH.
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Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.Edited by Rylana on August 31, 2014 4:55PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
Honfold✭✭✭
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
The problem with fear is that you can block while under its effect.
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Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
The problem with fear is that you can block while under its effect.
Damage prevention. It becomes a war of resource management, and even on a sword and board stamina spec almost any build will run out of stamina long before a magicka build will run out of magicka (and still have stamina anyway).
Its one of the main reasons I still think stam builds need some more tweaks, because cost management is still heavily favored to magicka.
Edit to add: But this is definitely not a nightblade specific problem. The class itself has a multitude of viable specs that people still dont utilize because they want so badly to be that stam based single target rogue that destroys people in two seconds and otherwise can never be found or be at risk of being attacked/dying (what I call in other games the wussy griefer build, but i digress). Sadly that build just hasnt quite made it yet (save a couple of really skilled guys that have made it work with snipe weaves and two hander weapon power builds), as far as I have seen.Edited by Rylana on August 31, 2014 5:15PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You know why you don't see it? The DoTs that NBs have from Siphon line are ridiculously low damage and again, one is totally defeated by block, agony.
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
DoT1, cripple with full light armor and capped spell dmg will do 800 over 8 secs. Factor in passive health regeneration that dmg is now 500 or so over 8 seconds. That's whopping 60 dps on 3k health pools. It's abysmal.
DoT2 Agony 500-600 with full light over 12 seconds AND it will not cast if the target is blocking, on horse, knocked down, disoriented ect, and it has a 1.5 second cast time. If the person is not standing there doing nothing you can land agony. When you do land it passive health regen will out heal it.
Fear, great skill. EXCEPT block can be held thoughout the fear if it's not broken immediately which the first fear is the majority of the time. Fear is expensive too. 350ish in light armor 450 w/o.
Stacking annul and ward (like anyone class can do) plus using rapid, and even quick siphon, swallow soul, sure you will stay alive longer, but you sure wont kill anything.
When talking about Veil, talons still do more dmg and it's not even an ultimate.
edit- Forgot Path of Darkness from shadow tree full light, cap spell dmg, around 80 dmg per sec. So if NBs lad all 3 DoTs you are looking at about 120 dps... over the course of 12 secs w/o factoring passive regeneration. This will cost the NB around 800 magicka. 800 magicka for about 800 dmg over 12 secs.
Yeah, I would definitely say a buff is in order here.Edited by TheBull on August 31, 2014 5:56PMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭Desdemonte wrote: »zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
I disagree wholeheartedly from experience.
Let me guess:
Light Armour?
Resto Staff?
Wrong
Wrong
Sword and Shield was my 3rd guess...... lol0 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭Dekkameron wrote: »zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
Absolute bullplop! Do you know how much healing you get from Mutagen and spamming funnel health? i've solo'd veteran dungeons with my nightblade pre nerf.
Well.. i'll tell you.. my health ticks at around 450-500 every 2 seconds'ish and that's perma sustainable.
Sure NBs dont have any fancy blazing shield or reflect nonsense. but in pure HoT WHILST pumping out 700 single target dps it does the job.
And what skill line was Mutagen from again?
Oh, yeah- Right. You're one of *those* Nightblades.1 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭Desdemonte wrote: »ezareth_ESO wrote: »90%+ of the people out there are using....isn't very good.
Does this not in itself scream that there is something fundamentally wrong, if the vast majority of NBs want to play the prototypical character, but it is a massive fail in comparison to outfitting your NB as though it was a Sorc?
I cannot fathom how NBs were so frigging powerful on the Beta PTS that they had to be nerffed so far into the dirt. It's enraging in how they went so overboard with the nerf, instead of going to a reasonable endpoint.
NBs are awesome. You're doing it wrong. Maybe you are still playing the game pre 1.3??
Yeah, doing it wrong like refusing to wear a skirt and use a Resto staff or go sword and board. If I wanted to be a sorc or a tank, I'd roll a sorc or a tank.Edited by Desdemonte on August 31, 2014 7:42PM4 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Desdemonte wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
Absolute bullplop! Do you know how much healing you get from Mutagen and spamming funnel health? i've solo'd veteran dungeons with my nightblade pre nerf.
Well.. i'll tell you.. my health ticks at around 450-500 every 2 seconds'ish and that's perma sustainable.
Sure NBs dont have any fancy blazing shield or reflect nonsense. but in pure HoT WHILST pumping out 700 single target dps it does the job.
And what skill line was Mutagen from again?
Oh, yeah- Right. You're one of *those* Nightblades.Desdemonte wrote: »Desdemonte wrote: »ezareth_ESO wrote: »90%+ of the people out there are using....isn't very good.
Does this not in itself scream that there is something fundamentally wrong, if the vast majority of NBs want to play the prototypical character, but it is a massive fail in comparison to outfitting your NB as though it was a Sorc?
I cannot fathom how NBs were so frigging powerful on the Beta PTS that they had to be nerffed so far into the dirt. It's enraging in how they went so overboard with the nerf, instead of going to a reasonable endpoint.
NBs are awesome. You're doing it wrong. Maybe you are still playing the game pre 1.3??
Yeah, doing it wrong like refusing to wear a skirt and use a Resto staff or go sword and board. If I wanted to be a sorc or a tank, I'd roll a sorc or a tank.
That mindset though...
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Glad to see this wasn't just about NB dps, because that isn't really a problem. I agree that the issue is some of their other skills. No really good CC (one single target CC that ends when you attack target - unlike NPC version which does not end when you get attacked). Haste still sucks. Siphoning Strikes does a bit too high of a penalty IMO to damage. The assassin Ulti isn't useful anymore. Invisi still doesn't work sometimes. etc. etc.
I think if they turned the crit back on for Ulti that would fix that, just don't let people stack the Mark Target bonus.
If they made agony (I think that's the one that slows people down, not the barbed wire one) an AoE instead of single target, that might make up for the lack of CC. And leave the other: cripple, with a working CC even after attacking - make the enemy use stamina to break out.
Haste should speed up overall attack animation, not just time between attack animations.
Path of Darkness still needs another small buff, it's not very useful even after the last time they buffed it.
The biggest problem is really the stamina/magicka issue. If you run a stamina build and use any NB powers on your bar, they will all be weak b/c you aren't a magicka focused build. Impale as a finisher, with bonus, does less damage on my stamina build than I can do with funnel health on a magicka build. Your class powers shouldn't be gimped if you decide to build your character for stamina.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭Desdemonte wrote: »Dekkameron wrote: »zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »NB just dont compare to any other class because they dont have things to really allow them to survive like other classes....
Absolute bullplop! Do you know how much healing you get from Mutagen and spamming funnel health? i've solo'd veteran dungeons with my nightblade pre nerf.
Well.. i'll tell you.. my health ticks at around 450-500 every 2 seconds'ish and that's perma sustainable.
Sure NBs dont have any fancy blazing shield or reflect nonsense. but in pure HoT WHILST pumping out 700 single target dps it does the job.
And what skill line was Mutagen from again?
Oh, yeah- Right. You're one of *those* Nightblades.Desdemonte wrote: »Desdemonte wrote: »ezareth_ESO wrote: »90%+ of the people out there are using....isn't very good.
Does this not in itself scream that there is something fundamentally wrong, if the vast majority of NBs want to play the prototypical character, but it is a massive fail in comparison to outfitting your NB as though it was a Sorc?
I cannot fathom how NBs were so frigging powerful on the Beta PTS that they had to be nerffed so far into the dirt. It's enraging in how they went so overboard with the nerf, instead of going to a reasonable endpoint.
NBs are awesome. You're doing it wrong. Maybe you are still playing the game pre 1.3??
Yeah, doing it wrong like refusing to wear a skirt and use a Resto staff or go sword and board. If I wanted to be a sorc or a tank, I'd roll a sorc or a tank.
That mindset though...
/yawn0 -
Desdemonte✭✭✭
The biggest problem is really the stamina/magicka issue. If you run a stamina build and use any NB powers on your bar, they will all be weak b/c you aren't a magicka focused build. Impale as a finisher, with bonus, does less damage on my stamina build than I can do with funnel health on a magicka build. Your class powers shouldn't be gimped if you decide to build your character for stamina.
^ This
This is a fundamental phuckup in game design. The imbalance starts right there. There should be a skill resource and a utility resource. There should be a single crit value, not spell or weapon. NBs are specifically screwed over by this system. Yeah, it would be a departure from classic Elder Scrolls M/S/H, but this is an MMO, not a single player game. ZOS has failed in this translation and simply have to recognize it. Problem is that it is far too ingrained in the coding, I'm sure, to change it now..... Maybe they *have* realized it but it's faaaaaar too late and they're too scared to acknowledge it.
I don't know what to think of the people who roll over and hop on the skirt and staff bandwagon. I guess they either don't see it or just don't care as long as they can find a FOTM build to farm their AP with...... sigh.1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »NB's are broken? They seem awesome enough to me. Shoot the other night myself, 2 temps, a sorc, and a vet6 NB held our own against similar numbers of fully kitted vet 12s. The vet6 sort of served as a forward scout with his super uber stealth and only died a handful of times but otherwise was able to squeeze out and call for backup and we would respond. He even managed to peg an enemy vet12 NB a few times. I've died more times than I can count from said enemy vet12 (he seems to have it in for me) and NB's are very strong and well-rounded. If unkillable DK builds weren't so broken, less people would play DK to guarantee wins and try more out of the box builds. Just because you don't kill something flashy flashy in 2 seconds doesn't mean your build is bad.
You obviously don't play a NB or at least often enough. SC is broken and not commensurate for the magicka spent on top of that. Atm it is most effective in small gang PvP because it can really play off the group, has room to move and is illusive enough to not be the primary target. 1v1 and siege battles it's primary skill is 90% broken in that armor n magical resists with crit buffs and positional advantage that rely on that skill working. ..doesn't.0 -
Renuo✭✭✭Desdemonte wrote: »Desdemonte wrote: »ezareth_ESO wrote: »90%+ of the people out there are using....isn't very good.
Does this not in itself scream that there is something fundamentally wrong, if the vast majority of NBs want to play the prototypical character, but it is a massive fail in comparison to outfitting your NB as though it was a Sorc?
I cannot fathom how NBs were so frigging powerful on the Beta PTS that they had to be nerffed so far into the dirt. It's enraging in how they went so overboard with the nerf, instead of going to a reasonable endpoint.
NBs are awesome. You're doing it wrong. Maybe you are still playing the game pre 1.3??
Yeah, doing it wrong like refusing to wear a skirt and use a Resto staff or go sword and board. If I wanted to be a sorc or a tank, I'd roll a sorc or a tank.
No, I'm full medium with no staffs. I'm actually doing really well in the current meta due to 1.3.Dark Renuo - Nightblade - Daggerfall Thornblade
Nightblade PVP - https://www.youtube.com/user/renuoz0 -
Hortator Indoril Nerevar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You know why you don't see it? The DoTs that NBs have from Siphon line are ridiculously low damage and again, one is totally defeated by block, agony.
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
DoT1, cripple with full light armor and capped spell dmg will do 800 over 8 secs. Factor in passive health regeneration that dmg is now 500 or so over 8 seconds. That's whopping 60 dps on 3k health pools. It's abysmal.
DoT2 Agony 500-600 with full light over 12 seconds AND it will not cast if the target is blocking, on horse, knocked down, disoriented ect, and it has a 1.5 second cast time. If the person is not standing there doing nothing you can land agony. When you do land it passive health regen will out heal it.
Fear, great skill. EXCEPT block can be held thoughout the fear if it's not broken immediately which the first fear is the majority of the time. Fear is expensive too. 350ish in light armor 450 w/o.
Stacking annul and ward (like anyone class can do) plus using rapid, and even quick siphon, swallow soul, sure you will stay alive longer, but you sure wont kill anything.
When talking about Veil, talons still do more dmg and it's not even an ultimate.
edit- Forgot Path of Darkness from shadow tree full light, cap spell dmg, around 80 dmg per sec. So if NBs lad all 3 DoTs you are looking at about 120 dps... over the course of 12 secs w/o factoring passive regeneration. This will cost the NB around 800 magicka. 800 magicka for about 800 dmg over 12 secs.
Yeah, I would definitely say a buff is in order here.
I love when someone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about replies to a derp who thinks NB are fine.
A nb survivorbility is about as strong as a wet carrot.Edited by Hortator Indoril Nerevar on September 1, 2014 5:03AM0 -
Honfold✭✭✭
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
The problem with fear is that you can block while under its effect.
Damage prevention. It becomes a war of resource management, and even on a sword and board stamina spec almost any build will run out of stamina long before a magicka build will run out of magicka (and still have stamina anyway).
Its one of the main reasons I still think stam builds need some more tweaks, because cost management is still heavily favored to magicka.
Edit to add: But this is definitely not a nightblade specific problem. The class itself has a multitude of viable specs that people still dont utilize because they want so badly to be that stam based single target rogue that destroys people in two seconds and otherwise can never be found or be at risk of being attacked/dying (what I call in other games the wussy griefer build, but i digress). Sadly that build just hasnt quite made it yet (save a couple of really skilled guys that have made it work with snipe weaves and two hander weapon power builds), as far as I have seen.
Well I agree with your point about the game of resource management Rylana. However I still think that targets should not block while feared. It is a game of resource management and right now Fear feels like it is not up to par with the other CCs out there.0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭.
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
The problem with fear is that you can block while under its effect.
Damage prevention. It becomes a war of resource management, and even on a sword and board stamina spec almost any build will run out of stamina long before a magicka build will run out of magicka (and still have stamina anyway).
Its one of the main reasons I still think stam builds need some more tweaks, because cost management is still heavily favored to magicka.
Edit to add: But this is definitely not a nightblade specific problem. The class itself has a multitude of viable specs that people still dont utilize because they want so badly to be that stam based single target rogue that destroys people in two seconds and otherwise can never be found or be at risk of being attacked/dying (what I call in other games the wussy griefer build, but i digress). Sadly that build just hasnt quite made it yet (save a couple of really skilled guys that have made it work with snipe weaves and two hander weapon power builds), as far as I have seen.
Well I agree with your point about the game of resource management Rylana. However I still think that targets should not block while feared. It is a game of resource management and right now Fear feels like it is not up to par with the other CCs out there.
Of course they shouldn't be able to but it's all part of the dumbest mechanic in the game that allows magicka builds versus stamina builds to hold down one button and fist another to win whilst holding a toothpick. The person who's going to run out of block first is obviously the stam build unless they use leeching nerfs as a NB and luck goes their way. And if they're impulsefisting then block is bypassed for the magicka build (how idiotic is that).
That's just one of the many reasons I've unsubbed. Most of them ZOS failures including failing to fix NB bugs like cloak which simply does not work for me any more. The biggest reason would be ability lockout which seems to affect NBs more. I get that in almost every single fight now at least once (not kidding). Unplayable junk.
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Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zac_sooleprb18_ESO wrote: »
You know why you don't see it? The DoTs that NBs have from Siphon line are ridiculously low damage and again, one is totally defeated by block, agony.
That really depends on the build, not all nightblades are specced for backstab one or two shot and done crits.
A siphon/fear magicka spec, for example, with veil of blades as an ult would pretty much ruin that option. (except against perhaps a stamina specced DK, but DK has always been the counter in general to a direct target caster build). Especially with light armor spellpen bonuses, but in most builds I see out on the field that would be true.
Fear/DoT is a very very powerful weapon and it amazes me how few nightblades actually use it. Last place you want to be in with a NB using that spec is in a tight corner. They literally feed on you to heal themselves while you just slowly DoT to death and kill your stamina because breaking out of the fear costs twice as much as just casting the fear again. Assuming they have good survival sense like blocking and bash/interrupt, id fear a NB in close quarters more than most other builds.
This becomes even more true if they are so overspecced into magicka that they can stack shields with anullment/ward via resto staff. Its pretty crazy how tanky you can make a nightblade that can still do ridiculous PBAoE DPS.
DoT1, cripple with full light armor and capped spell dmg will do 800 over 8 secs. Factor in passive health regeneration that dmg is now 500 or so over 8 seconds. That's whopping 60 dps on 3k health pools. It's abysmal.
DoT2 Agony 500-600 with full light over 12 seconds AND it will not cast if the target is blocking, on horse, knocked down, disoriented ect, and it has a 1.5 second cast time. If the person is not standing there doing nothing you can land agony. When you do land it passive health regen will out heal it.
Fear, great skill. EXCEPT block can be held thoughout the fear if it's not broken immediately which the first fear is the majority of the time. Fear is expensive too. 350ish in light armor 450 w/o.
Stacking annul and ward (like anyone class can do) plus using rapid, and even quick siphon, swallow soul, sure you will stay alive longer, but you sure wont kill anything.
When talking about Veil, talons still do more dmg and it's not even an ultimate.
edit- Forgot Path of Darkness from shadow tree full light, cap spell dmg, around 80 dmg per sec. So if NBs lad all 3 DoTs you are looking at about 120 dps... over the course of 12 secs w/o factoring passive regeneration. This will cost the NB around 800 magicka. 800 magicka for about 800 dmg over 12 secs.
Yeah, I would definitely say a buff is in order here.
I love when someone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about replies to a derp who thinks NB are fine.
A nb survivorbility is about as strong as a wet carrot.
Been playing NB at high level in both PvP and PvE since launch dude, I am pretty sure ive got the credentials well in order. To merely claim I am somehow bad because you dont agree with me but want to latch onto someone else spewing incorrect information is your prerogative, but ill bite on this, just for the sheer want to instruct/teach.
How to build a powerful AOE DPS/DoT nightblade that will be both impossible to just block through, but will also drain your stamina in about 10 seconds at best, while being nearly impossible to kill quickly if at all, and definitely not something you want to be in a tight corner with... especially if youre a vampire.
Dunmer or Breton. (mine is a Bosmer, but what can ya do?) Vampire.
Inferno Destro/Resto, Light, 5Warlock, 5Seducer. (dont even say it, theorycrafting and builds are what they are). v5 purple food, all magicka attribs, all health enchants. Weapon power on the jewelry if you can afford it.
Damage to Magicka enchants on the staves, impen traits on the crafted armor, crit on the resto, sharpened on the destro.
Destro Bar: Fire Ring, Mass Hysteria, Evil Hunter, Unstoppable, Elusive Mist. Clouding Swarm Ultimate
Resto Bar: Sap Essence, Twisting Path, Turn Undead, Magicka Harness, Healing Ward. Veil of Blades Ultimate
Stats come out at VR12/Legendary/Cyrodill buffs at around 3100 Health, 2500 Magicka, 1600 Stamina with 130 Spell power and 170 weapon power. Depending on Mundus you will have regens in 150s for Magicka, 80s for Stam, health will be crap. Also depending on whether you want to use the fighters guild abilities in the bars or swap around for inner light, anywhere from 25-50 percent spell crit and about 30 percent weapon crit.
The build is basically a chain of "cloaks" using clouding swarm and elusive mist, a chain of shields using magicka harness and healing ward, a chain of protection boosts/anti vampire using fighters guild abilities, DoT out of Elemental ring and twisting path (which is seriously underrated), DPS boosting out of Sap Essence powering your elemental ring, and then veil of blades on the resto bar giving it 10% more damage while it ticks. Heals come from sap and healing ward.
So tell me again I dont know how to play nightblade or the game? By all means put this together and figure out the rotations and tell me how you do. This build does okay for 1v1 or single target but it gets a lot stronger the more opponents you have around you. That sap essence weapon power boost is NO joke, not to mention you get more heals the more people you hit with it. Not to mention how fast ultimate generates with impulse/sap the more people you hit. If youre fighting vampires you will find your stamina refilling extremely quickly due to Evil Hunter.
You may also want to consider swapping out one of the fighters guild abilities (probably Turn Undead) for efficient purge since this build has no built in DoT clear otherwise.
I know, its not medium armor daggers and a bow, but you asked for something viable that will do nasty things to people, there you go.
Also, I plan to put this build together when I get some more skillpoints. My toon doesnt have destro staff leveled and I cant be bothered to do so. Lately Ive been running a version of this with Resto/Dual wield and medium armor as a high crit build. You dont really need the light armor passives to make this work with dual wielding or the shield stacking, though light will make the class skills better at the expense of crit.
Still prefer my "scout" build of bow/dagger medium, but eh, always gotta keep options open
Edited by Rylana on September 1, 2014 1:02PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
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Desdemonte✭✭✭What people seem to keep missing is the blatant fact that basic design of the Nightblade class is completely [snip] up. @Rylana sure, that is an effective build but what armour and weapon passives were put into the NB class? Was it Light armour and staff? No. It was Medium armour and Dual wield. The NB cannot be best played as it was fundamentally (mis)designed to be played. It needs to be played as a sorc, or a tank.
Sure, it *can* be played as DW with some inventive design but it won't be optimal. It's prototypical design is *not optimal* and a person needs to throw the intended design out the window to make it even somewhat comparable to the unorthodox builds. Let that sink in.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_SandraF on September 2, 2014 12:19AM2
