ZOS. How? Why?

Thralgaf

Sharee wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I (and some others) on the other hand say this is simply a matter of a compromise between delivering a patch as bugless as possible, and delivering it as fast as possible.

If every single large patch hadn't been released with a game breaking bug you'd be on stronger ground, to the point where health bars no longer move and guilds have to be disabled is past the point of a common or garden bug.

The issue that is annoying a number of players is not simply bugs. It's game breaking bugs that should have been spotted before it went live and even sometimes are reported on the test server.

If those bugs were game breaking then people would not be able to play the game.

I don't know about you, but none of the listed bugs made it impossible for me to play. They were annoying, sure, sometimes even infuriating (nothing like going from full health to dead because bow damage didnt update my health bar).

Yet, i was still playing. I suspect we simply have a different definition of what is 'game breaking'.

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

More strawmen.

It's not a straw man. When you make claims of expertise, don't be surprised when people call you out on that.

It was more than calling out. The person actually said you aren't what you say you are, with no proof thereof, which is just as bad as....never mind. This is just pointless.

CapuchinSeven

Thralgaf wrote: »

...never mind. This is just pointless.

It is, you're right. There are clearly people that are willing to let major critical bugs get into live and that's their viewpoint (frankly I think they are the reason we get so many broken, to be patched later on, games).

Thralgaf

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

In binary notation, 10 ("one-zero", not "ten") means 1 x 2^1 (= 2) + 0 x 2^0 (= 0). This plays on the saying: "There are two kinds of people in the world...". In this case, there are those who understand binary (and by extension, programming), and those who don't.

Ok, thanks for the explanation. I will let those who don't know binary notation know to refrain from having service expectations. This thread really is comedy gold...you were absolutely right.

Sharee

[edit] nevermind, this has gone on long enough.

Srugzal

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven claims that ZOS is choosing, for whatever reason, to push out patches that it knows are broken.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that. We only differ in the interpretation of that fact.

He says this proves their incompetence(and is trying to support that by proclaiming himself expert on the field, because he, loose quote, "knows many game developers". Ugh.).

So you compound the problem by putting words into his mouth. Tsk tsk.

I (and some others) on the other hand say this is simply a matter of a compromise between delivering a patch as bugless as possible, and delivering it as fast as possible.

Even here you can't seem to resist your own appeal to authority... by implying that, since others agree, you must be right. But your point still makes sense in spite of that.

I think that you do agree that quality control for the release process is not quite what it could be.

Now, I've speculated elsewhere in these forums about what these phenomena are really about, and if I thought anyone would be interested I'd link to it. But the tl;dr version is that they don't care, as long as the number of new subscriptions exceeds the number of cancelled subscriptions (due to, among other things, discontent caused by persistent bugs). If a bug endangers that balance, they fix it. If not, they don't. They may get to the other things eventually, if they have the resources for it, but they only make extra effort if the balance is endangered. It saves money that way. You may or may not like my theory, that's fine, but it does appear to account for observed behavior.

The other post I'm alluding to it here. The subject is the Werewolf problem, but it's related.

CapuchinSeven

Sharee wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I wasn't referring to being called out.

Well, you claimed to be an expert, when i asked for a reference(what flawless MMO you worked on) you claimed straw man.

Thats not a straw man btw. A straw man is when person A makes a claim, person B alters that claim to something else, then attacks that altered claim.

No, again that wasn't the point I was referring to. I did not state as an only reason for being an expert was because I still had friends who were game developers. I stated I'd worked as a tester and as a developer and currently worked on embedded systems using fuzzy logic controllers.

THAT aside, because it's just going around and around and around (PM me if you'd like) the point of the thread here is that while bugs get into software and likely always will, a customer is making it clear that he is dissatisfied with critical bugs making it into every single major patch.

The argument against that is, "making an MMO is hard, you'll always get bugs".

I, and others, do not agree that "it's hard" is an acceptable excuse for pushing out patches EVERY single patch that contains a critical bug that greatly effects game play.

If this had been a one time thing, if the bow health bug had been a single incident I would be agreeing with you, but it isn't, it's critical problem after critical problem. They need to slow down, test their patches and get them right.

CapuchinSeven

Srugzal wrote: »

If a bug endangers that balance, they fix it. If not, they don't. They may get to the other things eventually, if they have the resources for it, but they only make extra effort if the balance is endangered. It saves money that way. You may or may not like my theory, that's fine, but it does appear to account for observed behavior.

I agree, which is why I support posts like the OP, because it makes it clear why someone is upset with the game and why they are feeling like they will no longer give them their money.

It's the only way we'll get better games, people in suits just don't care as long as the money rolls in.

If we don't make a stand to that, then we'll always have badly made games.

Sharee

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven claims that ZOS is choosing, for whatever reason, to push out patches that it knows are broken.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that. We only differ in the interpretation of that fact.

He says this proves their incompetence(and is trying to support that by proclaiming himself expert on the field, because he, loose quote, "knows many game developers". Ugh.).

So you compound the problem by putting words into his mouth. Tsk tsk.

Not really. here is the exact quote:

Yes actually, I've worked in the game industry as a tester and as a software engineer and know many game developers today.

I guess you could accuse me of shortening his answer, but i certainly did not put any words in his mouth.

Srugzal

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven claims that ZOS is choosing, for whatever reason, to push out patches that it knows are broken.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that. We only differ in the interpretation of that fact.

He says this proves their incompetence(and is trying to support that by proclaiming himself expert on the field, because he, loose quote, "knows many game developers". Ugh.).

So you compound the problem by putting words into his mouth. Tsk tsk.

Not really. here is the exact quote:

Yes actually, I've worked in the game industry as a tester and as a software engineer and know many game developers today.

I guess you could accuse me of shortening his answer, but i certainly did not put any words in his mouth.

You've strained at a gnat and swallowed a camel here, @Sharee. Selective quoting (that distorts or misrepresents the intent of the original) is intellectually dishonest, and that is what you did. Thanks for correcting that, but you still are ignoring the point. Have a nice day.

EDIT: for clarity

Sharee

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven claims that ZOS is choosing, for whatever reason, to push out patches that it knows are broken.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that. We only differ in the interpretation of that fact.

He says this proves their incompetence(and is trying to support that by proclaiming himself expert on the field, because he, loose quote, "knows many game developers". Ugh.).

So you compound the problem by putting words into his mouth. Tsk tsk.

Not really. here is the exact quote:

Yes actually, I've worked in the game industry as a tester and as a software engineer and know many game developers today.

I guess you could accuse me of shortening his answer, but i certainly did not put any words in his mouth.

You've strained at a gnat and swallowed a camel here, @Sharee. Selective quoting is intellectually dishonest, and that is what you did. Thanks for correcting that, but you still are ignoring the point. Have a nice day.

I used a selective quote because i found that part i quoted especially ridiculous. What expertise on the field of quality control does 'knowing many developers' give one? None. (that's like me trying to get a job at a bank, and as a reference saying 'i know many bankers')

CapuchinSeven

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven claims that ZOS is choosing, for whatever reason, to push out patches that it knows are broken.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that. We only differ in the interpretation of that fact.

He says this proves their incompetence(and is trying to support that by proclaiming himself expert on the field, because he, loose quote, "knows many game developers". Ugh.).

So you compound the problem by putting words into his mouth. Tsk tsk.

Not really. here is the exact quote:

Yes actually, I've worked in the game industry as a tester and as a software engineer and know many game developers today.

I guess you could accuse me of shortening his answer, but i certainly did not put any words in his mouth.

You've strained at a gnat and swallowed a camel here, @Sharee. Selective quoting is intellectually dishonest, and that is what you did. Thanks for correcting that, but you still are ignoring the point. Have a nice day.

I used a selective quote because i found that part i quoted especially ridiculous. What expertise on the field of quality control does 'knowing many developers' give one? None. (that's like me trying to get a job at a bank, and as a reference saying 'i know many bankers')

I'm kicking myself for replying to this, can you please just keep on point?

I did not say knowing game developers makes me an expect, being a software engineer and (because of my work in the past) still know games developers which to elaborate means I still hear the horror stories from them.

Sharee

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

[

No, again that wasn't the point I was referring to. I did not state as an only reason for being an expert was because I still had friends who were game developers. I stated I'd worked as a tester and as a developer and currently worked on embedded systems using fuzzy logic controllers

Which has absolutely nothing to do with MMO's, and has completely different QA priorities. Your software must be flawless first and foremost, because your customers demand it. A MMO update on the other hand must follow an expected schedule.

CapuchinSeven

Sharee wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

[

No, again that wasn't the point I was referring to. I did not state as an only reason for being an expert was because I still had friends who were game developers. I stated I'd worked as a tester and as a developer and currently worked on embedded systems using fuzzy logic controllers

Which has absolutely nothing to do with MMO's, and has completely different QA priorities. Your software must be flawless first and foremost, because your customers demand it. A MMO update on the other hand must follow an expected schedule.

Jesus Christ.

Srugzal

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven claims that ZOS is choosing, for whatever reason, to push out patches that it knows are broken.

I don't think anyone here is disputing that. We only differ in the interpretation of that fact.

He says this proves their incompetence(and is trying to support that by proclaiming himself expert on the field, because he, loose quote, "knows many game developers". Ugh.).

So you compound the problem by putting words into his mouth. Tsk tsk.

Not really. here is the exact quote:

Yes actually, I've worked in the game industry as a tester and as a software engineer and know many game developers today.

I guess you could accuse me of shortening his answer, but i certainly did not put any words in his mouth.

You've strained at a gnat and swallowed a camel here, @Sharee. Selective quoting is intellectually dishonest, and that is what you did. Thanks for correcting that, but you still are ignoring the point. Have a nice day.

I used a selective quote because i found that part i quoted especially ridiculous. What expertise on the field of quality control does 'knowing many developers' give one? None. (that's like me trying to get a job at a bank, and as a reference saying 'i know many bankers')

Forgive me, but I'd like to point out one last time that challenging a claim to authority doesn't move the argument anywhere; as you can see, it just results in endless repetition of claims and counter-claims. But you've chosen for whatever reason to stick with it. That's certainly your choice. I just makes me dizzy.

Sharee

Srugzal wrote: »

Forgive me, but I'd like to point out one last time that challenging a claim to authority doesn't move the argument anywhere

I'd like to point out that this whole mess would not have happened if not for certain arrogant claim "I am an expert, therefore i am in the position to judge ZOS". Like this:

Utter rubbish, utter utter utter rubbish. I'm a computer scientist and the constant release of game breaking bugs into each and every live patch, which then go unfixed is frankly amateurish.

Someone who has no experience with MMO's making arrogant statements like that really gets my blood boiling. 'I'm a computer scientist' my behind. I am a computer scientist too. In the field of computer networking. I wouldn't dare to claim any authority to be able to evaluate a MMO programmer's work.

Thralgaf

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

[

No, again that wasn't the point I was referring to. I did not state as an only reason for being an expert was because I still had friends who were game developers. I stated I'd worked as a tester and as a developer and currently worked on embedded systems using fuzzy logic controllers

Which has absolutely nothing to do with MMO's, and has completely different QA priorities. Your software must be flawless first and foremost, because your customers demand it. A MMO update on the other hand must follow an expected schedule.

Jesus Christ.

It really is maddening. let me sum the point of the OP again, because I think it has gotten lost in the inability of some people to understand it. There are paying customers that are frustrated with the state of the game, and feel that ZoS's inability to fix certain bugs is unacceptable. I agree, and submit that it is unfair to label them as pariahs or respond in contempt.

Srugzal

Sharee wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Forgive me, but I'd like to point out one last time that challenging a claim to authority doesn't move the argument anywhere

I'd like to point out that this whole mess would not have happened if not for certain arrogant claim "I am an expert, therefore i am in the position to judge ZOS". Like this:

Utter rubbish, utter utter utter rubbish. I'm a computer scientist and the constant release of game breaking bugs into each and every live patch, which then go unfixed is frankly amateurish.

Someone who has no experience with MMO's making arrogant statements like that really gets my blood boiling. 'I'm a computer scientist' my behind. I am a computer scientist too. In the field of computer networking. I wouldn't dare to claim any authority to be able to evaluate a MMO programmer's work.

This may suprise you, I expect, but I couldn't agree with you more. There is really no justification for the appeal to authority, ever, and it injects a lot of irrelevancies into the discussion.

However, MMOs, though they are their own worlds, aren't really all that different, organizationally, from other large software development projects. There are certain best practices, especially in the area of QA, which are shared across domains. Even though the specifics are always different, I think it's safe to say, judging by the persistence of bugs and the constant emergence of new ones, that regression testing would seem to be a weak area for this particular project. I think that observation is valid, even being the complete outsiders that we are.

The fact that as software engineers ourselves we might also have particular insight into these domains, and perhaps even specific experience with them, is not a reason to believe anything we say, per se, but does serve to inform our opinions. I can't pretend to not understand very large and complex development projects, having done them for 20 years, but I would never claim to have that level of understanding of this particular one.

Just as, being a writer, I can continue to object to the persistent use of the word "bring" where "take" is required in NPC dialogs, without needing to understand their perplexing inability to recognize or fix "simple" grammar errors. Saying "I'm a writer!" doesn't prove it's an error, but referencing something like the Chicago Manual of Style or Strunk or other standard reference does.

The point is that no appeal to authority is ever necessary, and I agree with you, it is annoying to see them. Where we seem to disagree is how to counter them.

CapuchinSeven

Sharee wrote: »

Someone who has no experience with MMO's making arrogant statements like that really gets my blood boiling. 'I'm a computer scientist' my behind. I am a computer scientist too. In the field of computer networking. I wouldn't dare to claim any authority to be able to evaluate a MMO programmer's work.

lol er no actually I called ZOS amateurish, not the coding, I stated a number of times that it's wrong to push out the bugs, not that the bugs won't happen and even defend that they would happen and always will happen.

The worse I said was that it's possible they are inept, and I meant that as a statement not as an insult in a follow up to me pointing the finger at the suits.

I haven't said the code is bad, I've said either testing is missing it or the suits are pushing it AND given that these problems are reported on the test server sometimes, I think it's more likely the suits.

If you can find an example of me calling a ZOS coder/dev an amateur I would retract it and rephrase it.

What's happening here is that you've got a bee in your bonnet over me and rather than actually responding to what's been said you've jumped and moved your goal posts at every turn.

Yet again, we're totally off the point as you've ignored them all in every post you've made on this page.

Srugzal wrote: »

There is really no justification for the appeal to authority, ever, and it injects a lot of irrelevancies into the discussion.

I agree actually, except that I a ) haven't said what he said I've said and b ) was writing a personal post on the internet about why I'm pissed off like the OP and why I as a person disagree with the person that bashed the OP.

I'm sure you'll understand what went though my head at the time wasn't "I'm writing my thesis", it was "yeah, yeah OP I agree lolz!". It didn't even cross my mind to come back here until I saw the OP was getting bashed on.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Knowing people in the field does not make you an expert, but it does give you considerable insight into what the problem might be. I am certainly not an expert on software development (I code a lot, but my expertise is computer graphics), and I don't work in game development, but I, too, can say "I know many game developers" (former and current colleagues, former students). Being an inquisitive sort, I have been asking them about their work and their software development processes, and most of them, including those who work at large and successful game studios (which I choose not to name because it is probably just as bad everywhere), claim to work in an environment where a 1990's mentality still lingers: coding like there's no tomorrow, skimping on formal testing and quality assurance, working against very loose specifications with bad or nonexistent documentation of the API they are supposed to use, and having far too little time to do the job right. A lot of the code is dependent on one or two chief developers, and it makes them very vulnerable if someone quits.

Management types at game studios like to claim they have an "agile process", but they stretch the definition of that term far into lala-land. It's hard to even call it a process, much less put a name to it. One person I spoke to coined the term "brute force and ignorance" for what his company was doing, and that sums up pretty nicely what I have been hearing from other sources as well.

Game studios have been getting away with this kind of "Wild West coding" for decades, but it seems like reality has caught up with them. The complexity of a modern game in general, and an MMO in particular, requires the developers to use a structured process, or what comes out is a product like ESO: a game that looks passable but is quite literally broken at the core, and therefore extremely difficult to maintain and update.

I think ESO is a good game, but a terribly bad software product. I am still playing it, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking all is well.

Talrenos

Its funny he does not get it. really, I actually agree with his points, and think it was well thought out. However the moment I see someone claiming to be something relevant to the points being made, I want proof. Your a software engineer? a computer programmer? know some Devs? All nice claims but its just words here, words that anyone can throw around. Therefore since anyone can claim to be anything they like, its meaningless. How do I know this? Simple, in real life i'm a Social-Engineering Psychologist for a major IVY league college that works with many of the top names in the industry. (I'll point out heavy sarcasm here, because im not sure he would get it and might actually believe me)

CapuchinSeven

Srugzal wrote: »

Management types at game studios like to claim they have an "agile process"

Ugh it's so true, it's taken an age to drag some management types away from waterfall models and rather than take advantage of better models they think that "agile" just means you can do it faster when they hear "shorter development cycle" and just assume complex software can be pulled out of someones ear super fast because "we're agile now, right?". So crapper and crapper software still gets written and nothing really changes, only the way/method/process you go about writing crapper and crapper software.

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

How do I know this? Simple, in real life i'm a Social-Engineering Psychologist for a major IVY league college that works with many of the top names in the industry. (I'll point out heavy sarcasm here, because im not sure he would get it and might actually believe me)

I replied to your original point some posts ago. You're welcome to PM me, but my ego is big enough to laugh off being called a liar on an internet message board because I'm not posting personal details in public or in private.

Repeating this doesn't really move the point on though. Lesson learned, don't type out what I'm casually thinking, the OP's point is being burred.

He's a customer and he's dissatisfied.

Thralgaf

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

Its funny he does not get it. really, I actually agree with his points, and think it was well thought out. However the moment I see someone claiming to be something relevant to the points being made, I want proof. Your a software engineer? a computer programmer? know some Devs? All nice claims but its just words here, words that anyone can throw around. Therefore since anyone can claim to be anything they like, its meaningless. How do I know this? Simple, in real life i'm a Social-Engineering Psychologist for a major IVY league college that works with many of the top names in the industry. (I'll point out heavy sarcasm here, because im not sure he would get it and might actually believe me)

So we agree with my point, then: People have every right to raise their expectations for mmo software, and express their frustration with bug riddled product.

KhajitFurTrader

Thralgaf wrote: »

So we agree with my point, then: People have every right to raise their expectations for mmo software, and express their frustration with bug riddled product.

Well, that's a given. But still there's no need to be a [snip] about it. :P
(Edit: no-one in particular is meant by this statement.)

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Pallmor

Reiterpallasch wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

Making a MMO is as complex as building a City from scratch. While also having to minimise running costs.

In our city we have buildings falling down, the roads are non functional and people can't get to where they are going, homeless are starving and/or freezing in the streets, unemployment is through the roof, the education and health systems are in shambles and mass transit just doesn't function.

Oh, but did I mention we're working on building a shiny new amusement park?

Detroit's getting a new amusement park? Alright!

Thralgaf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09GtnWdBjc

CapuchinSeven

Thralgaf wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09GtnWdBjc

LOL it's been years since I watched a Fist Full of Yen on Kentucky Fried Movie!

Dionysis

OP: "Hey guys, here are some broken things that really irritate me and I think they should have been fixed by now."

Poster 1: "Hey, give them a break this is a big game and bugs happen, but all in all this is a good game"

Poster 2: "NO!!11!1 GAME IS 100% BROKEN AND IS CRAP AND NO ONE SHOULD PLAY. 100% OF PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THIS GAME BECAUSE IT SUCKS!!!"

Poster 3: "THIS GAME IS AMAZE-BALLS. HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK TO INSULT IT! NO ONE IS LEAVING BECAUSE I STILL PLAY!!!11!1!"

Well, that escalated quickly...

Look, there are some rather serious bugs that should have been fixed by now, and it is disheartening that patches continue to break things. This will affect different people differently. A number of these bugs are PVP specific, so if you are a huge PVP player this will affect you more. If you are a solo PVE player there aren't as many bugs, but the group PVE content coming out every update might be underwhelming. Some people have more tolerance for this than others.

I played through the bad parts of The Secret World, so IMO the bugs here are rather tolerable comparatively, but I have faith in ESO, because I have seen what a concerted effort can fix in TSW. Even SWTOR took months to fix dungeon boss bugs that rendered them unbeatable. But if ZoS keeps breaking things every patch and these bugs don't get fixed I might find myself less and less hopeful for an amazing ESO.

So really, can we avoid the 100% or 0% arguements? Most people here aren't "fanbois" or "FOTM" players. They either are aware of the bugs and are still hopeful for an awesome game, or they enjoy the game but just can't tolerate putting out money for a still bugged game, especially if the bugs affect their chosen playstyle, and they have lost faith in ZoS to fix it.

Thralgaf

Dionysis wrote: »

OP: "Hey guys, here are some broken things that really irritate me and I think they should have been fixed by now."

Poster 1: "Hey, give them a break this is a big game and bugs happen, but all in all this is a good game"

Poster 2: "NO!!11!1 GAME IS 100% BROKEN AND IS CRAP AND NO ONE SHOULD PLAY. 100% OF PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THIS GAME BECAUSE IT SUCKS!!!"

Poster 3: "THIS GAME IS AMAZE-BALLS. HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK TO INSULT IT! NO ONE IS LEAVING BECAUSE I STILL PLAY!!!11!1!"

Well, that escalated quickly...

Look, there are some rather serious bugs that should have been fixed by now, and it is disheartening that patches continue to break things. This will affect different people differently. A number of these bugs are PVP specific, so if you are a huge PVP player this will affect you more. If you are a solo PVE player there aren't as many bugs, but the group PVE content coming out every update might be underwhelming. Some people have more tolerance for this than others.

I played through the bad parts of The Secret World, so IMO the bugs here are rather tolerable comparatively, but I have faith in ESO, because I have seen what a concerted effort can fix in TSW. Even SWTOR took months to fix dungeon boss bugs that rendered them unbeatable. But if ZoS keeps breaking things every patch and these bugs don't get fixed I might find myself less and less hopeful for an amazing ESO.

So really, can we avoid the 100% or 0% arguements? Most people here aren't "fanbois" or "FOTM" players. They either are aware of the bugs and are still hopeful for an awesome game, or they enjoy the game but just can't tolerate putting out money for a still bugged game, especially if the bugs affect their chosen playstyle, and they have lost faith in ZoS to fix it.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I don't think anyone was 0-100%, except Sharee with the nit picking. Hell, I've stated plenty of times throughout a number of threads (including this one) that I love the game. I think we just want a mor erefined product.

Vatter

zgrssd wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

HOW are you this bad at creating and maintaining a video game?

[...]

WHY? Why is it impossible for you to fix these?
WHY? Why do we have to continue to put up with this?
WHY? Why are you making it SO difficult to enjoy this game?

There are 10b kinds of people:
Those that understand how hard a job is and thus won't complain about acceptable/expected mistakes like those.
Those who do not and thus shouldn't run thier mouths about stuff they could not comprehend in a decade of study.
You are obviously the later.


Making a MMO is as complex as building a City from scratch. While also having to minimise running costs.
Explain me how you can even ask there to be no problem with a project that scale?

I bet your from France aren't you?

Super_Sonico

Way to garnish the support and love of the folks at ZOS and endear them into helping you fix the issues you bring forth OP. I mean, at this point, if I were a dev at ZOS, I'd write a script to have your character rubber band everywhere, just for the fun of watching you rage quit.