Daedric Summoning is garbage

Kilandros

A bold statement, I know, but one I stand behind despite a deep appreciation for Sorcerers as a class. Let's assess each skill within Daedric Summoning individually:

Summon Storm Atronach:

This was Daedric Summoning's bread-and-butter skill until it was nerfed in 1.3. The thing that made this Ultimate distinct from, say, Standard, Nova, and Veil was its ability to taunt targets. I presumed the ability to taunt was also the reason Storm Atronach had a health pool and could be destroyed. Its taunt was unique and made it a strong ultimate choice.

Now that the taunt is gone, this Ultimate is simply an inferior version of every other class' marquise ultimate. Give me Standard, Nova, or Veil over post-1.3 Storm Atronach any day.

Summon Familiar:

ESO should not have attempted to implement pets. As a veteran MMO player, I am familiar with pet-balancing issues. Unfortunately, without extremely sophisticated player controls, pets are always OP or UP.

Now, ESO pets aren't totally UP--but they are totally underwhelming. They really don't promote any kind of interesting play style. That's pets at their best. At their worst they cannibalize important heals in group content. There's a reason why VR players never used pets until Summon Volatile Familiar became bugged.

Daedric Curse:

IMO the best single ability in this line, though it is very situational. I see this skill as being built for PvP where Sorcerers use it in tandem with Mage's Fury (4 second delay) to stack and time burst damage on an opponent. But it's lackluster in PvE because there is a delay and because only 1 can be applied at a time.

That's great that it feels like a PvP-oriented skill. But the fact that the best ability in the line (best IMO, of course) is not particularly suited for PvE strikes me as problematic.

Summon Twilight:

See above at Summon Familiar.

Bound Armor:

An interesting and pretty excellent skill--but wholly outclassed by Storm Armor. Why--WHY--does Bound Armor need to operate as a costume?

I can see magicka-starved builds using it in place of Storm Armor. Overall not a bad skill to have, but the graphics of it absolutely suck.

Conjure Ward:

For a first-hand lesson in frustration just compare this to DK's Obsidian Shield. Obsidian Shield creates a better damage shield for the same amount of time and also applies to Allies. There's nothing more to say.

Passives:

The only passive worth mentioning (because all the other passives apply to pets, and as I've posited above, pets are garbage) is Power Stone. It is a beast of a passive. But 1 passive out of 4 is hardly impressive.

Recommendation:

1) Scrap this skill tree. Make it a World Skill available to all players so all players can effectively ignore everything but Power Stone. Give Sorcs a newly-designed skill tree.

Or -

2) Remove ALL pet functionality. Rework Summon Storm Atronach into Summon Lightning Rod, a Sorcerer equivalent of Standard of Might. Remove Familiar and Twilight, replace with skills that provide some group utility.

Tessitura

I completely disagree. Volatile Familiar is one of my absolute favorite abilities in the game, and the reason for that is simple. It gives you a powerful aoe stun and decent damage to boot. Not to mention it can pull aggro when soloing. I will do what you did and break it down.

Summon Storm Atronach: Still seems to taunt when no one else is taunting it. But even aside from that, If you go with Charged as your morph, you get a strong area denial and aoe damage effect from it. It will wreck npc's in pve and deny players ground to stand in pvp. Very nice for attempting to take or defend keeps.

Summon Familiar: Both morphs are pretty nice. Volatile familiar is easily one of my favorite abilities for the above mentioned reason.

Daedric Curse: Not my favorite ability in this tree, but it brings a nice little burst ability that can proc Crystal Shards.

Summon Twilight: The Matriarch is by far my favorite of the two morphs. The heals are a life saver and the damage output is not bad. Both summons have decent uses in both pvp and pve. You might think its not useful, But my summons have saved my life in both pvp and pve on multiple occasions. The heals plus the aoe stun/damage is incredibly useful.

Bound Armor: I rarely use this my self, but I know a rather decent tank that swears by it. A constant, and non-dispelible buff to your armor and if you picked arms as your morph, a heavy attack boosting buff as well.

Conjured Ward: Another favorite from this tree. Useful in both pvp and pve, it really does not matter if the DK's shield is better. Besides, this game would suck if all our abilities worked the same way or some were not better at some things then others. This is what we have and that is what they have. Its cheap to cast and can absorb some pretty nasty hits for you. It has both saved my life and allowed me to dps through some sticky boss fights one vet level. You can not always count on a DK to cast that shield for you when you need it, but you can rely on your self to cast yours when you need it.

Anyway, that is my counter argument to your claim. I find the tree to be perfectly valid and the skills are still very useful. I have been using them effectively in both pvp and pve for some time now and believe the tree to be a completely fine, even magnificent part of the sorcerer's arsenal.

Kilandros

Tessitura wrote: »

I completely disagree. Volatile Familiar is one of my absolute favorite abilities in the game, and the reason for that is simple. It gives you a powerful aoe stun and decent damage to boot. Not to mention it can pull aggro when soloing. I will do what you did and break it down.

Summon Storm Atronach: Still seems to taunt when no one else is taunting it. But even aside from that, If you go with Charged as your morph, you get a strong area denial and aoe damage effect from it. It will wreck npc's in pve and deny players ground to stand in pvp. Very nice for attempting to take or defend keeps.

Summon Familiar: Both morphs are pretty nice. Volatile familiar is easily one of my favorite abilities for the above mentioned reason.

Daedric Curse: Not my favorite ability in this tree, but it brings a nice little burst ability that can proc Crystal Shards.

Summon Twilight: The Matriarch is by far my favorite of the two morphs. The heals are a life saver and the damage output is not bad. Both summons have decent uses in both pvp and pve. You might think its not useful, But my summons have saved my life in both pvp and pve on multiple occasions. The heals plus the aoe stun/damage is incredibly useful.

Bound Armor: I rarely use this my self, but I know a rather decent tank that swears by it. A constant, and non-dispelible buff to your armor and if you picked arms as your morph, a heavy attack boosting buff as well.

Conjured Ward: Another favorite from this tree. Useful in both pvp and pve, it really does not matter if the DK's shield is better. Besides, this game would suck if all our abilities worked the same way or some were not better at some things then others. This is what we have and that is what they have. Its cheap to cast and can absorb some pretty nasty hits for you. It has both saved my life and allowed me to dps through some sticky boss fights one vet level. You can not always count on a DK to cast that shield for you when you need it, but you can rely on your self to cast yours when you need it.

Anyway, that is my counter argument to your claim. I find the tree to be perfectly valid and the skills are still very useful. I have been using them effectively in both pvp and pve for some time now and believe the tree to be a completely fine, even magnificent part of the sorcerer's arsenal.

First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to write out a well-reasoned response to my OP. I appreciate that you took the time to do so, and I think you make excellent points.

I agree with you that each skill has or could have a niche of sorts. But many of my problems with Daedric Summoning (and perhaps this was less-than-clear in my OP) is that the tree doesn't feel particularly cohesive. The passives all seem to benefit pets, and I maintain that pets are not particularly useful even though players like yourself have found uses for them.

As you say, Bound Armor and Conjured Ward aren't bad skills, but they still feel rather meh (Bound Armor only because I hate the costume). My comparison of Conjured Ward to Obsidian Shield wasn't an attempt to clone Sorcs as DKs, but rather to demonstrate that Conjured Ward isn't a particularly interesting skill. And the fact that it isn't particularly interesting combined with the fact that it's one of the "better" skills of the line is why I really think Daedric Summoning doesn't bring any interesting game play to the table.

Pets, though perhaps useful, are kind of boring. Curse, while useful, is really designed for PvP. Bound Armor, while useful, is just a lazy armor buff. These factors combined with passives that tend to affect only half the skills in the line make the entire line very one note.

stimpy986b14_ESO

I partially agree with you here. IMO, this tree should be more focused on conjured weapons/armor and daedric spells rather than pets which if implemented at all should be a world or guild skill tree as detailed in my necromancy tree Idea a few months ago

ArRashid

I agree that it should be remade into a world line.

There are plenty of skills that lack a class, but we really want to see a cryomancer - tanking/cc oriented spec built around slowing and freezing enemies and blocking hits by ice walls..

We have fire (ardent flame),
storm (storm calling),
illusion (shadow),
conjuration (daedric summoning),
restoration (restoring light),
mysticism (soul magic)
and alteration (support)

we're still missing frost to make destruction school complete.

SirAndy

Have you actually leveled any of the other classes?

Just the fact that your pet can take the attention of mobs away from you makes leveling a sorc soooooo much easier.
It doesn't even matter if the pet otherwise really helps with the attack.

My Dragon Knight, Night Blade and Templar would all kill for a summoned pet.
Literally ...
;-)

Kilandros

SirAndy wrote: »

Have you actually leveled any of the other classes?

Just the fact that your pet can take the attention of mobs away from you makes leveling a sorc soooooo much easier.
It doesn't even matter if the pet otherwise really helps with the attack.

My Dragon Knight, Night Blade and Templar would all kill for a summoned pet.
Literally ...
;-)

I have each of the 4 classes at Veteran Ranks. Each has their quirks when leveling. But I'm less focused on the leveling aspects here, and more focused on end-game potential. I find Daedric Summoning lacking at end game.

SirAndy

Kilandros wrote: »

I find Daedric Summoning lacking at end game.

Fair enough, that i can agree with ...

ArRashid

SirAndy wrote: »

Have you actually leveled any of the other classes?

Just the fact that your pet can take the attention of mobs away from you makes leveling a sorc soooooo much easier.
It doesn't even matter if the pet otherwise really helps with the attack.

My Dragon Knight, Night Blade and Templar would all kill for a summoned pet.
Literally ...
;-)

unless they have a good enough taunt, they are just battlefield clutter, trust me. The first attack you use will draw all attention to you.
That actually happens everywhere, since THREAT as we know it from WoW is not present here, mobs just go (if they are not under effect of Taunt) straight for the one with greatest raw damage.
You can go into a dungeon without tank, let two other dpsers pull and deal some damage, if you have better gear, first shot will make the boss run straight to you. It was a pain to do these last 3 dungeons on Lady Lyanna for me, as all bosses run straight for me (I have soft capped weapon damage), and an archer in medium gear can do just so much to stay alive.. and apparently, if the boss wants you dead, not even the fact that you should be immune to dmg while roll dodging interests him in the slightest.

(I have 1100 HP, was hit for 1600+ while roll dodging out of heavy attacks.. it's just not possible to escape.. even blocking gets you low enough for the next attack to kill you anyway.. after endless wipes I had to put stealth on my bars and use it each time boss got close to me to "reset aggro" and retreat)

SirAndy

ArRashid wrote: »

The first attack you use will draw all attention to you.

Not true for my sorc at all. My pet has no problem keeping mobs busy.

I can get several attacks in before they switch focus to me and if i kite them back to the pet, they often switch back to attacking the pet.

This can be very helpful, especially later in the game where you have a lot of larger mob groups to deal with.
;-)

Maverick827

Conjure Ward is actually worse then you think. Mitigation is applied after the ward absorbs damage. It often doesn't even absorb one full boss auto attack.

Hypertionb14_ESO

holy crap such a whiny topic...

I dont normally say this but considering the extent the OP goes to complain about a skill tree...

Learn, To, Play.

Kilandros

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

holy crap such a whiny topic...

Ironic considering that 3 days ago you began a topic titled "I venomously hate anything that is luck based."

Thanks for playing.

Sincerely,
The Internet

Cody

I like daedric curse, and bound armor sounds nice. everything else.... yeah. I agree. the passive that reduces ultimate cost is nice, but that's about it.

AtriasNaradan

"Bound Armor:

An interesting and pretty excellent skill--but wholly outclassed by Storm Armor. Why--WHY--does Bound Armor need to operate as a costume?

I can see magicka-starved builds using it in place of Storm Armor. Overall not a bad skill to have, but the graphics of it absolutely suck."


.......you're joking...you gotta be joking right??

.....no??

Well, i'm guessing you were never a TES series player before ESO, right? cause that's a stupid question for any TES series player to make.

Bound armor is a skill in TES series that basically summoning a daedric armor out of nothing, that's bound to the caster. Bound summons always in the form of daedric, wether it's armor or weapon. Bound armor is of summoning type of magic, which in previous games not just consists of daedric summoning.

You shouldn't questioned why it's in the form of a costume, as it's like that in all TES series. You're right though, Daedric armor of ESO does looks ugly. Daedric armor used to be one of the best looking (and quality) armor, that makes everyone wants to wear it just because it's cool...but that's enthusiasm are gone here at ESO due to whatever happen to the artist head when they draw Daedric armor lol

The_Sadist

I'm inclined to agree with the OP, I find most of the Daedric Summoning tree rather lacklustre.

Both summons, the familiar and Twilight, are very so so and ultimately are underwhelming once you reach a certain level. I used both, morphed them and replaced them alternative spells when I could handle myself in PvE. The obvious fix is make them timed and not toggled while increasing their damage output / abilities. I love the Storm Atronach and I'm disappointed he can't hold aggro anymore, the nerf was really uncalled for. Apparently it was nerfed because his taunt annoyed tanks in trials... the obvious solution would have been giving him a lower priority taunt compared with a player based one, but hey.

I don't understand bound armour and conjured ward, the former was never permanent in TES games and the latter is pretty.. average. Bound armour is good for a tank Sorcerer but is generally untouched by most others. I'd love, well tolerate, for them to fuse both conjured ward and bound armour together and make it timed (like a minute or two). Something akin to 'increases casters armour and nearby allies gain a shield of x for y seconds', but that's just me. It would slot up a space for a third summon, which would be awesome in my opinion.

I've heard good things about Daedric Curse but I haven't touched it since maxing and morphing it. Increasing the cast time but allowing it to stack could work, but I'd love to see it removed and replaced by an alternative summon.

Lasty, given the future spell crafting system allows anyone to summon Daedric minions, I feel somewhat cheated. A Sorcerer who specialises in Daedric Summoning can't even summon the most basic of Atronachs (flame) and yet everyone else can. I'm all for scrapping the tree at this point in time, but I do like the Power Stone passive and good ol' Sparky, nerfs and all.

indigoblades

I like the skill line. I dont use the ultimate much but its ok. t I like how my Clanfare takes aggro... and with the attack key i can now send him in, do a rapid regeneration heal and critical surge while he tromps in, then time a heavy sneak attack with a quick spell to follow. i have removed him from my bars a number of times but i find i die easier if i make a mistake.

If there are enough monsters to worry me, its nice he gets the damage from one of them. And i get magicika back if he happens to die.

I do agree they are not useful for PVP since i doubt they are going to take much aggro. I dont use wing twilight much tho.

zgrssd

Summon Familiar:
It either provides extra DPS or a Tank (the clanfear in particular) for solo play.
Even in non-vet groupplay they can be usefull. They split up damage that bit more and it does not cost much to have the 16 second healing staff hot on them.
Not sure how well it holds up in late game.

Deadric Curse:
This is a tricky DPS skill. Because it is only usefull if the fight is long, where foes don't die fast. Wich kinda works against the basic idea of being a DPS (kill the right foes fast).
It is more usefull with a tanky/pet shield build or in groupcontent against bosses. Against weaker foes in solo consider chaining it with that first Lightning Skill (that does extra damage on low HP).
Crystal Shard+Deadric Curse+1st Strom callign skill + some normal DPS can quickly wipe out PvE foes.

Summon Twilight:
Not use her much before the respecc. Can think the heal to be usefull solo, but as usual in group content the tank should rely on the healer for heals.
Not sure how well it holds up in late game.

Bound Armor:
With the armor caps being that close in endgame already, this spell is the most questionable for lategame. And Storm armor also provides Spell Resistance/speed boost/melee AoE DPS.
Before that it is an idea to combine both on a tank.

Conjure Ward:
You cannot really compare it to Obsidian Shield, because the focus is totally different. Where OS is a group buff, CW is a self/pet buff.
It only works well if you have both Summons slotted and in use. Then it can greatly up the survivability and damage output of the summons. As self shield it is rather weak.


Overall I can agree that it's usefullness lategame is doubtfull. Even mid game I tend to use it more for the passives/secondary effects. I try to keep at least one of the skills on my quickbar, simple because it triggers deadric protection and because I want to level it a bit more.
Actually using Pet's only works if you commit at least 3 slots to the Pets (Familiar, Twilight + Conjure Ward). do not know if that would be effective, but I do know it would be very boring to only have 2 Active skills + Ultimate per bar.

Tamanous

I am still completely pissed over the nerf to Volatile Familiar. Sure it may be OP due to the bug but the current nerf makes it utter crap in pve when the bug isn't duplicated.

WHERE IS THE FIX ZOS?! How long do we have to live with a gutted power?

Lord_Hev

I have a better idea.


Remove the toggle aspect of it, and also remove the word "Pet" from their mental vocabulary. Then, look to how previous TES games handled summons, and make ESO summons set-duration.Then balance them around being set-duration.


The only pets in this game are the useless cosmetic ones that sometimes trap people at wayshrines. Summons and Daedric minions are not pets. They are summoned creatures, and they should function as such.

Pmarsico9

Has there ever been a MMO that implemented pets so they didn't suck?

Just curious. I can't think of one.

Pmarsico9

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I have a better idea.


Remove the toggle aspect of it, and also remove the word "Pet" from their mental vocabulary. Then, look to how previous TES games handled summons, and make ESO summons set-duration.Then balance them around being set-duration.


The only pets in this game are the useless cosmetic ones that sometimes trap people at wayshrines. Summons and Daedric minions are not pets. They are summoned creatures, and they should function as such.

Sorry missed this:

This is 100000000% correct. There is zero logic in the ES universe to having permanent pets.

Kilandros

AtriasNaradan wrote: »

"Bound Armor:

An interesting and pretty excellent skill--but wholly outclassed by Storm Armor. Why--WHY--does Bound Armor need to operate as a costume?

I can see magicka-starved builds using it in place of Storm Armor. Overall not a bad skill to have, but the graphics of it absolutely suck."


.......you're joking...you gotta be joking right??

.....no??

Well, i'm guessing you were never a TES series player before ESO, right? cause that's a stupid question for any TES series player to make.

Bound armor is a skill in TES series that basically summoning a daedric armor out of nothing, that's bound to the caster. Bound summons always in the form of daedric, wether it's armor or weapon. Bound armor is of summoning type of magic, which in previous games not just consists of daedric summoning.

You shouldn't questioned why it's in the form of a costume, as it's like that in all TES series. You're right though, Daedric armor of ESO does looks ugly. Daedric armor used to be one of the best looking (and quality) armor, that makes everyone wants to wear it just because it's cool...but that's enthusiasm are gone here at ESO due to whatever happen to the artist head when they draw Daedric armor lol

You could have EASILY disagreed with me and made your point without being a tool about it. My OP wasn't whiny. It wasn't stupid. Please don't pretend that it was when responding to it.

gurluasb16_ESO

I disagree, I like pets, and I hope spellcrafting adds pets for all classes.

Lord_Hev

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

I disagree, I like pets, and I hope spellcrafting adds pets for all classes.

I like summons too. And I'm sure it's not the concept of summons that the OP dislikes per say. Rather, the fact that the current summons suck and are imbalanced for post Lvl 50 content.

gurluasb16_ESO

Lord_Hev wrote: »

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

I disagree, I like pets, and I hope spellcrafting adds pets for all classes.

I like summons too. And I'm sure it's not the concept of summons that the OP dislikes per say. Rather, the fact that the current summons suck and are imbalanced for post Lvl 50 content.

Well he did say he dislikes the idea of pets in MMOs, and suggested removing the pets.

Armann

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Has there ever been a MMO that implemented pets so they didn't suck?

Just curious. I can't think of one.

Engineer and Meta-Physicist in Anarchy Online, Engineers could trim the pet with devices making it more aggressive or defensive, and even taunt. Necromancer in Age of Conan, one of the more interesting classes in that game, could have up to 8-11 pets out at once all with different utilites depending on the situation and you could mix and match depending on your needs or what the raid required. We are stuck with only 5 slots per weapon so when you assign one slot to a pet it had better be worth it when other MMOs with 40 slots for abilites could implement better stuff.

Anastasia

The_Sadist wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with the OP, I find most of the Daedric Summoning tree rather lacklustre.

Both summons, the familiar and Twilight, are very so so and ultimately are underwhelming once you reach a certain level. I used both, morphed them and replaced them alternative spells when I could handle myself in PvE. The obvious fix is make them timed and not toggled while increasing their damage output / abilities. I love the Storm Atronach and I'm disappointed he can't hold aggro anymore, the nerf was really uncalled for. Apparently it was nerfed because his taunt annoyed tanks in trials... the obvious solution would have been giving him a lower priority taunt compared with a player based one, but hey.

I don't understand bound armour and conjured ward, the former was never permanent in TES games and the latter is pretty.. average. Bound armour is good for a tank Sorcerer but is generally untouched by most others. I'd love, well tolerate, for them to fuse both conjured ward and bound armour together and make it timed (like a minute or two). Something akin to 'increases casters armour and nearby allies gain a shield of x for y seconds', but that's just me. It would slot up a space for a third summon, which would be awesome in my opinion.

I've heard good things about Daedric Curse but I haven't touched it since maxing and morphing it. Increasing the cast time but allowing it to stack could work, but I'd love to see it removed and replaced by an alternative summon.

Lasty,>>>> given the future spell crafting system allows anyone to summon Daedric minions, <<<<I feel somewhat cheated. A Sorcerer who specialises in Daedric Summoning can't even summon the most basic of Atronachs (flame) and yet everyone else can. I'm all for scrapping the tree at this point in time, but I do like the Power Stone passive and good ol' Sparky, nerfs and all.

---

Its admittedly telling that so very little has been revealed about how ZOS will be implementing Spell Crafting. We have so far basically just been told the title, and its coming ;o). The buzz is all about what that line was in ES single player games. IF its implemented in this MMO in even half its form from the single player discs I stand by to be amazed and impressed. And THEN we can decide if and how it may impact issues like Daedric Summoning etc.

No one who is theory-crafting about it thus far seems to include the difficulty in base class balance for ZOS that continues right now from live. Without a show of being able to stabilize class balance with what it CURRENTLY is, how in the world does anyone think that ZOS is going to release a wide-arcing ability to craft a zillion spells by anyone at seemingly anytime?

I'll believe its that indepth WHEN I see it in live server. Until then, I hold the thought that it will be slightly more accessible than the perk points we are soon to be given via longevity of playtime in the upcoming Champion System, but something far, far short of its features in the single player ES games. Waiting to see!

AtriasNaradan

Armann wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Has there ever been a MMO that implemented pets so they didn't suck?

Just curious. I can't think of one.

Engineer and Meta-Physicist in Anarchy Online, Engineers could trim the pet with devices making it more aggressive or defensive, and even taunt. Necromancer in Age of Conan, one of the more interesting classes in that game, could have up to 8-11 pets out at once all with different utilites depending on the situation and you could mix and match depending on your needs or what the raid required. We are stuck with only 5 slots per weapon so when you assign one slot to a pet it had better be worth it when other MMOs with 40 slots for abilites could implement better stuff.

I just hope it uses seperate slots than skills. Maybe use item slot, or a whole new slot for crafted spell.

AtriasNaradan

Kilandros wrote: »

AtriasNaradan wrote: »

"Bound Armor:

An interesting and pretty excellent skill--but wholly outclassed by Storm Armor. Why--WHY--does Bound Armor need to operate as a costume?

I can see magicka-starved builds using it in place of Storm Armor. Overall not a bad skill to have, but the graphics of it absolutely suck."


.......you're joking...you gotta be joking right??

.....no??

Well, i'm guessing you were never a TES series player before ESO, right? cause that's a stupid question for any TES series player to make.

Bound armor is a skill in TES series that basically summoning a daedric armor out of nothing, that's bound to the caster. Bound summons always in the form of daedric, wether it's armor or weapon. Bound armor is of summoning type of magic, which in previous games not just consists of daedric summoning.

You shouldn't questioned why it's in the form of a costume, as it's like that in all TES series. You're right though, Daedric armor of ESO does looks ugly. Daedric armor used to be one of the best looking (and quality) armor, that makes everyone wants to wear it just because it's cool...but that's enthusiasm are gone here at ESO due to whatever happen to the artist head when they draw Daedric armor lol

You could have EASILY disagreed with me and made your point without being a tool about it. My OP wasn't whiny. It wasn't stupid. Please don't pretend that it was when responding to it.

Calm down, relax.

I never think your OP was whiny in the first place. The question was kinda "stupid" if asked by veteran TES players though. Not "stupid" because it's whiny or anything like that, but because that's common knowledge i think all TES veteran already know (i never really use bound item spells, and yet i still know that).

I guess did came up as a tool though...it's just meant as a joke, don't take it too seriously, the joke i mean

zgrssd

Anastasia wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with the OP, I find most of the Daedric Summoning tree rather lacklustre.

Both summons, the familiar and Twilight, are very so so and ultimately are underwhelming once you reach a certain level. I used both, morphed them and replaced them alternative spells when I could handle myself in PvE. The obvious fix is make them timed and not toggled while increasing their damage output / abilities. I love the Storm Atronach and I'm disappointed he can't hold aggro anymore, the nerf was really uncalled for. Apparently it was nerfed because his taunt annoyed tanks in trials... the obvious solution would have been giving him a lower priority taunt compared with a player based one, but hey.

I don't understand bound armour and conjured ward, the former was never permanent in TES games and the latter is pretty.. average. Bound armour is good for a tank Sorcerer but is generally untouched by most others. I'd love, well tolerate, for them to fuse both conjured ward and bound armour together and make it timed (like a minute or two). Something akin to 'increases casters armour and nearby allies gain a shield of x for y seconds', but that's just me. It would slot up a space for a third summon, which would be awesome in my opinion.

I've heard good things about Daedric Curse but I haven't touched it since maxing and morphing it. Increasing the cast time but allowing it to stack could work, but I'd love to see it removed and replaced by an alternative summon.

Lasty,>>>> given the future spell crafting system allows anyone to summon Daedric minions, <<<<I feel somewhat cheated. A Sorcerer who specialises in Daedric Summoning can't even summon the most basic of Atronachs (flame) and yet everyone else can. I'm all for scrapping the tree at this point in time, but I do like the Power Stone passive and good ol' Sparky, nerfs and all.

---

Its admittedly telling that so very little has been revealed about how ZOS will be implementing Spell Crafting. We have so far basically just been told the title, and its coming ;o). The buzz is all about what that line was in ES single player games. IF its implemented in this MMO in even half its form from the single player discs I stand by to be amazed and impressed. And THEN we can decide if and how it may impact issues like Daedric Summoning etc.

There was at least one example given:
"Adding a Endurance aspect to a Fire Attronarch gives you a permanent pet".
I interpreted that as "permanent pet just like the Deadric Summoning pets".

Of course I did not got the words exactly right and this is still in an early phase, so things are subject tp change.