Spell Resistance is Pointless in PVP?

Galrukh

Armitas wrote: »

Here is another question.

Lets say I have enough spell resist and elemental resist to equate to 70% fire resit if the cap was not 50%. My attacker has 50% spell penetration. Is my fire resist 20% or is it 0%?

It is 0.
Being overcapped does you no good whatsoever.

Armitas

Glad I asked instead of buying another glyph. Thanks. (edit please read on as things changed)

reagen_lionel

Galrukh wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Here is another question.

Lets say I have enough spell resist and elemental resist to equate to 70% fire resit if the cap was not 50%. My attacker has 50% spell penetration. Is my fire resist 20% or is it 0%?

It is 0.
Being overcapped does you no good whatsoever.

He said if the cap was not 50% though

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

A very reliable source explained to me the logical process of how spell pen is not working as intended and currently is completely overriding all spell resist. I have not tested I prefer not doing math and finding trustworthy friends, so I'm not 100% sure.

Galrukh

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Galrukh wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Here is another question.

Lets say I have enough spell resist and elemental resist to equate to 70% fire resit if the cap was not 50%. My attacker has 50% spell penetration. Is my fire resist 20% or is it 0%?

It is 0.
Being overcapped does you no good whatsoever.

He said if the cap was not 50% though

So he did, my bad.
Well its hard to guess what things would be like if they werent the way they are now

Turelus

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

Huntler

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

Lionxoft

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

If it is intended then Breton racial should be relooked. It's a little more than useless. Maybe gain magicka when taking damage from attacks that utilize spell damage.

Armitas

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Some people believe numbers actually exist just as this game actually exists. What ever it is it is something mysterious that describes both life such as the golden mean, and matter such as the constants. It's a glimpse of something prior or simultaneous to the big bang.

Cody

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

If it is intended then Breton racial should be relooked. It's a little more than useless. Maybe gain magicka when taking damage from attacks that utilize spell damage.

agreed. right now, me picking a Breton was a complete waste of time, for the purpose I picked her for.

Lionxoft

Armitas wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Some people believe numbers actually exist just as this game actually exists. What ever it is it is something mysterious that describes both life such as the golden mean, and matter such as the constants. It's a glimpse of something prior or simultaneous to the big bang.

You're lying.

Armitas

Lionxoft wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Some people believe numbers actually exist just as this game actually exists. What ever it is it is something mysterious that describes both life such as the golden mean, and matter such as the constants. It's a glimpse of something prior or simultaneous to the big bang.

You're lying.

If I am lying now then the following is true. "This sentence is false".

Huntler

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Basically a percentage penetration against a percentage defense (spell resists) should NOT be additive, it doesn't make sense, it should be multiplicative. Given that it is additive right now (subtractive even though thats not a word) means that spell resists have 0 point in PvP.

Aoe_Barbecue

Armitas wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Some people believe numbers actually exist just as this game actually exists. What ever it is it is something mysterious that describes both life such as the golden mean, and matter such as the constants. It's a glimpse of something prior or simultaneous to the big bang.

Filthy Platonists! If "one" exists, then qualia are no longer epistemically private. This is why I'm a Thomist .

Lionxoft

Huntler wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Basically a percentage penetration against a percentage defense (spell resists) should NOT be additive, it doesn't make sense, it should be multiplicative. Given that it is additive right now (subtractive even though thats not a word) means that spell resists have 0 point in PvP.

Uhhh you're telling the wrong guy (Me). Reach out to the leads.

I just kill things.

Armitas

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any information on if this in an intended mechanic?

This because if this is intended the eso devs and I have to have a discussion on how math works, especially percentages of things.

"What is math?"

Some people believe numbers actually exist just as this game actually exists. What ever it is it is something mysterious that describes both life such as the golden mean, and matter such as the constants. It's a glimpse of something prior or simultaneous to the big bang.

Filthy Platonists! If "one" exists, then qualia are no longer epistemically private. This is why I'm a Thomist .

Nah I'm a light platonist. I think light platonism is useful for communication in that when we say things we refer to something, but not an actual existing something. Heavy leads to all sorts of absurdities like Shakespeare plagiarizing hamlet from the netherrealm.

Aoe_Barbecue

Abstract entities having real ontological value is a troubling proposition for me though. It would imply that qualia have real existence apart from experience and this is a fundamental breakdown in causality imo. (The material cause of qualia being sense organs detecting reality.) I think language actually referring to propositional truth doesn't become incoherent in a non-platonist world because qualia are referent to experience, and experience assumes objectivity.

Armitas

For light it won't have a real, and consequently messy, ontology to explain. Things like quarters are just referential objects to abstract terms. So I can refer to "quarters" in a true sentence when I say "four quarters makes a dollar". But it doesn't require me to explain how quarters came to exist at or before the bang. I just need to acquaint a person with the abstract term and the abstract object. Or in the perspective of qualia I need to associate the abstract term of "quarter" with the qualia experience of a quarter and then a person can successfully and truthfully communicate when they say "four quarters makes a dollar". But that is as far as it goes, there is no realism expected in it, it's just a way of using a term to refer to a qualia.

Basically we use it so that we can say "four quarters makes a dollar" and still refer to something true though not necessarily something extant.

reagen_lionel

This thread has derailed immensely since the last I posted in here.. o_O

pitdemon_ESO

I'd like to see Spell Penetration as a whole be removed from the LA tree and get put on armor as a trait. It would be funny to see people having to choose between that and crit reduction in PvP.

Thechemicals

Jaxom wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

So does this make Marked Target worth using if you're in medium armour?

Based on these results, it seems that Mark Target would negate all resistances for both Spell and Armor since it's 75%. With the 300 Pen we get just from being in Cyrodiil, it would act similarly, I think.

Marked target *ignores armor/spell defense, not negate. if you mark a target who has 1k armor you will ignore 750 armor. If you additionally penetrated his resistances with a skill/passive/attribute it would calculate from 1k armor.

Jaxom

Thechemicals wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

So does this make Marked Target worth using if you're in medium armour?

Based on these results, it seems that Mark Target would negate all resistances for both Spell and Armor since it's 75%. With the 300 Pen we get just from being in Cyrodiil, it would act similarly, I think.

Marked target *ignores armor/spell defense, not negate. if you mark a target who has 1k armor you will ignore 750 armor. If you additionally penetrated his resistances with a skill/passive/attribute it would calculate from 1k armor.

So on this reasoning, using 1k to keep things easy, ignore 750 Armor from Mark Target, and penetrate an additional 300 but since there is only 250 armor left, you are effectively negating their armor?

reagen_lionel

Jaxom wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

So does this make Marked Target worth using if you're in medium armour?

Based on these results, it seems that Mark Target would negate all resistances for both Spell and Armor since it's 75%. With the 300 Pen we get just from being in Cyrodiil, it would act similarly, I think.

Marked target *ignores armor/spell defense, not negate. if you mark a target who has 1k armor you will ignore 750 armor. If you additionally penetrated his resistances with a skill/passive/attribute it would calculate from 1k armor.

So on this reasoning, using 1k to keep things easy, ignore 750 Armor from Mark Target, and penetrate an additional 300 but since there is only 250 armor left, you are effectively negating their armor?

No they are saying Mark Target ignores 750 armor. Any additional penetration will work as if they still have 1k armor from any other skills besides mark target is what he's saying that I gathered from what he wrote.

Turelus

So still no official answer on what's going on here.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

If any of you could at least pop in and acknowledge if this is working as intended or a bug that would be nice. As of right now it's really looking pointless to have a Spell Resistance attribute in PVP.

Heethcliff

I'm hearing and reading the same kind of things on this end. Lots of players concerned about this MASSIVE additive spell penetration bug. Playing a Nord DK with 3100+ health and soft cap just above 2k on both resistances and I'm getting blown away by a single spell pen "mage" in seconds.

Ezareth

Don't know if you guys noticed the PTS patch notes but Zenimax is listening.

Light armor just lost 14% of its spell pen. (2% per piece).

There is definitely a difference using sharpened on a staff versus not using.

Now all magic damage by nature of the spell pen nerf is going to be nerfed. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not / =

Galrukh

It is a fantastic thing, it is almost certainly not enough to bring it down to where it should be but everything helps. Unfortunately LA wearers can still get pretty close to ignoring all spell penetration by using sharpened on their staff but at least now overcapping on spell penetration will have some kind of impact.

Teiji

Hello people!

So, what are the percentages for spell resist, armor?

1000 armor = 10% less physical damage?
1000 spell resistance = 10% less magical damage taken?

Turelus

In Cyrodiil

2149 SR = 33.6%
1934 AR = 30.1%

3039 SR = 48.2%
3003 SR = 47.6%

You can check values with this add-on MitigationValue.

IcyDeadPeople

Armitas wrote: »

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Okay so I want to ask. Spell penetration pretty much negates spell resistance.

But specific elemental resistances like fire and ice resist arent affected by spell penetration right?

I don't know but its not impossible that it could. Elemental resistance shares the same cap as spell resistance. For example the cap on spell resistance is 50%. If you had 25% spell mitigation and 25% fire mitigation you would not receive any more fire mitigation by adding more fire resist. Elemental resist seems to add up just like spell resistance and fit inside the spell resist mechanic. Could someone test this on a PvP friend?

I've tested fire resist and shock resist a bit.

Fire resist reduces damage from all class abilities that use fire, such as flame lash, cinder storm, searing strikes, etc. This works the same even when target's spell resist is overcharged close to 3k.

Shock resist jewelry with legendary VR12 glyph does not affect damage at all from many class abilities that use shock damage, such as mages fury, lightning form, streak.

Shock resist only reduces damage from a couple of shock abilities: lightning flood, twilight matriarch and unstable familiar.