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Justice System and Wayshrines
Haewk
✭✭✭
Will players with bounties still be able to use Wayshrines?
What about banks?
What about vendors?
What about banks?
What about vendors?
2
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Haewk✭✭✭I cant think of a reason why they couldn't.
Steal and get caught.
CC guard.
Run to bank and offload stolen stuff.
Pay bounty without losing stolen stuff.
Sit at the Wayshrine and kill NPCs.
Guards / player guards show up.
Port out.
Log alt in.
Check to see when things settle down.
Log bounty char in.
Port back to town.
Resume killing.3 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭I cant think of a reason why they couldn't.
Steal and get caught.
CC guard.
Run to bank and offload stolen stuff.
Pay bounty without losing stolen stuff.
Sit at the Wayshrine and kill NPCs.
Guards / player guards show up.
Port out.
Log alt in.
Check to see when things settle down.
Log bounty char in.
Port back to town.
Resume killing.
Good questions and post.
But, aww now Haewk, they are gonna call you an elitist and griefer for even having the forethought to think things through and i.d. potential discrepancies. I sincerely hope you are active on the test server when the Justice System gets "tested" (lol).
That anyone would even ask why after your first post gives one pause. o-0
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭I cant think of a reason why they couldn't.
Steal and get caught.
CC guard.
Run to bank and offload stolen stuff.
Pay bounty without losing stolen stuff.
Sit at the Wayshrine and kill NPCs.
Guards / player guards show up.
Port out.
Log alt in.
Check to see when things settle down.
Log bounty char in.
Port back to town.
Resume killing.
Good questions and post.
But, aww now Haewk, they are gonna call you an elitist and griefer for even having the forethought to think things through and i.d. potential discrepancies. I sincerely hope you are active on the test server when the Justice System gets "tested" (lol).
That anyone would even ask why after your first post gives one pause. o-0
And who do you refer too by 'they'?
I don't think asking why not is reason for pause. Many of the issues on that 'list' are not issue due to the fact that you can not use Wayshrines while in combat anyway.
With a large bounty, running from a wayshrine to the bank would be almost impossible. As soon as you are spotted you will enter combat. Therefore be unable to open up dialog with a banker. Or use the wayshrine again.
However if you have a small bounty, why wouldn't you be able to use Wayshrines? It would be silly if you could not.4 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »I cant think of a reason why they couldn't.
Steal and get caught.
CC guard.
Run to bank and offload stolen stuff.
Pay bounty without losing stolen stuff.
Sit at the Wayshrine and kill NPCs.
Guards / player guards show up.
Port out.
Log alt in.
Check to see when things settle down.
Log bounty char in.
Port back to town.
Resume killing.
Good questions and post.
But, aww now Haewk, they are gonna call you an elitist and griefer for even having the forethought to think things through and i.d. potential discrepancies. I sincerely hope you are active on the test server when the Justice System gets "tested" (lol).
That anyone would even ask why after your first post gives one pause. o-0
And who do you refer too by 'they'?
I don't think asking why not is reason for pause. Many of the issues on that 'list' are not issue due to the fact that you can not use Wayshrines while in combat anyway.
With a large bounty, running from a wayshrine to the bank would be almost impossible. As soon as you are spotted you will enter combat. Therefore be unable to open up dialog with a banker. Or use the wayshrine again.
However if you have a small bounty, why wouldn't you be able to use Wayshrines? It would be silly if you could not.
Avoiding pointing out those who are calling for private PvE phased instances for each of 'their' Justice System encounters so they have no consequences to deal with while making it fair for them to partake of the Justice System is what I meant by 'they'.
And as to your "As soon as you are spotted you will enter combat." Hmm...thinkin' here that invis pots and stealth abilities MIGHT give a means of avoiding detection if one or one and THEIR ACCOMPLICES has already killed a guard or player character(s) who were trying to stop one and then was on the way headed to a shrine. o-0
Not thinkin' I would mosey along with blinking lights to draw attention on my way to the wayshrine...I'd probs use boulders or other natural barriers and stay close to walls etc while attempting to get to said wayshrine myself.
Edited by Anastasia on July 30, 2014 10:59AM2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wayshrines need to be barred for anyone with a bounty.
I got a LOL on this post, must mean the pvp crew disagree with this idea and want to exploit wayshrines by running away.
http://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8 Edited by babylon on July 30, 2014 11:03AM5 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭
And as to your "As soon as you are spotted you will enter combat." Hmm...thinkin' here that invis pots and stealth abilities MIGHT give a means of avoiding detection if one or one and THEIR ACCOMPLICES has already killed a guard or player character(s) who were trying to stop one and then was on the way headed to a shrine. o-0
That's the point though right? I'd be disappointed if I somehow managed to get all the way across town avoiding NPC guards and Players, killing a couple to clear the wayshrine, managing to get to a wayshrine undetected only to find it unusable.Not thinkin' I would mosey along with blinking lights to draw attention on my way to the wayshrine...I'd probs use boulders or other natural barriers and stay close to walls etc while attempting to get to said wayshrine myself.
And this is exactly why you will have player guards. If you are being tracked by more than one player guard it will be really hard for you to do this.
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Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps Wayshrines will not be useable when a guard is approaching to accost you? If you do manage to get out, then the bounty would still be there when you come back anyway.
Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
I'd also be interested in knowing what happens to your bounty if an NPC guard kiils you. It can't be wiped completely, because the cost of repairing your gear after death could be much less than your bounty.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
And this is exactly why you will have player guards.
Nah, just need to make wayshrines unusable so people can't flee so easily. Don't need player guards if a person can't use the wayshrine.
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
And as to your "As soon as you are spotted you will enter combat." Hmm...thinkin' here that invis pots and stealth abilities MIGHT give a means of avoiding detection if one or one and THEIR ACCOMPLICES has already killed a guard or player character(s) who were trying to stop one and then was on the way headed to a shrine. o-0
That's the point though right? I'd be disappointed if I somehow managed to get all the way across town avoiding NPC guards and Players, killing a couple to clear the wayshrine, managing to get to a wayshrine undetected only to find it unusable.Not thinkin' I would mosey along with blinking lights to draw attention on my way to the wayshrine...I'd probs use boulders or other natural barriers and stay close to walls etc while attempting to get to said wayshrine myself.
And this is exactly why you will have player guards. If you are being tracked by more than one player guard it will be really hard for you to do this.
Yes, good points Tannakaobi! I just believe it will not be as difficult as you do to 'get away'. That is IF this is implemented in such a way as to provide interesting player content. I'm excited either way. Haven't been in an r-p guild for years but this Justice System seems like a perfect distraction which could become even more!
I'd love for it to provide a bit of coin as well. And its very good to have something to look forward to and take my focus off the whole stam/magicka conundrum tbh.
Edited by Anastasia on July 30, 2014 11:13AM3 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I suppose you also want 'Travel To' teleporting and map-click Wayshrining banning too?3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
Stolen goods needs to be unsellable/untradeable/non-storable in bank, and should not be able to be crafted with, or people would just run with a friend and offload the stolen goods to the friend, dump it all in the bank, or simply use the items at a trade station.4 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
And as to your "As soon as you are spotted you will enter combat." Hmm...thinkin' here that invis pots and stealth abilities MIGHT give a means of avoiding detection if one or one and THEIR ACCOMPLICES has already killed a guard or player character(s) who were trying to stop one and then was on the way headed to a shrine. o-0
That's the point though right? I'd be disappointed if I somehow managed to get all the way across town avoiding NPC guards and Players, killing a couple to clear the wayshrine, managing to get to a wayshrine undetected only to find it unusable.Not thinkin' I would mosey along with blinking lights to draw attention on my way to the wayshrine...I'd probs use boulders or other natural barriers and stay close to walls etc while attempting to get to said wayshrine myself.
And this is exactly why you will have player guards. If you are being tracked by more than one player guard it will be really hard for you to do this.
Yes, good points Tannakaobi! I just believe it will not be as difficult as you do to 'get away'. That is IF this is implemented in such a way as to provide interesting player content. I'm excited either way. Haven't been in an r-p guild for years but this Justice System seems like a perfect distraction which could become even more! I'd love for it to provide a bit of coin as well. And its very good to have something to look forward to and take my focus off the whole stam/magicka conundrum tbh.
Agreed, I think I'm more excited about the justice system being implemented than I was for release of the game.
Judging on previous tes games I would imagine that the bounty will effect the distance that guards will see you as a criminal.
A small bounty - you will need to interact for them to recognize you.
A higher bounty - they will see you in a usual combat type distance allowing you to sneak past them and what not.
A very large bounty - they will see you before you see them and will come running from miles and kill you on sight. Or die trying...
Maybe a little more complex though. What will be interesting is how player guards will be notified. I'd like to think that the same would apply with maybe a different color glow, blue perhaps.2 -
Haewk✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
Seems reasonable. So the only way to offload stolen goods would be to sell it to a fence or use it in crafting. You should then also not be able to send it via mail.
What about trading with other players? Do they get a bounty if they take accept stolen goods in a trade?2 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I agree with unsellable (I think this will be the case anyway, unless selling to a fence), and not bankable. I think there could be some interesting systems available regarding trading; trade of stolen goods could incur a bounty as well, but you usually only get a bounty when witnessed, so I'm not sure if that would work...Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
Stolen goods needs to be unsellable/untradeable/non-storable in bank, and should not be able to be crafted with, or people would just run with a friend and offload the stolen goods to the friend, dump it all in the bank, or simply use the items at a trade station.
Regarding crafting: what you say makes sense, but there would then be no point in stealing these ingredients if you couldn't craft with them, other than to sell them for the pittance they are worth. Perhaps crafting with stolen ingredients would flag the product as stolen as well?UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
MKLS✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
Why - surely you will have to be able to store stolen stuff in banks - otherwise whats the point in stealing it in the first place - I can't see how the system could work if you prevented stolen goods from being kept in banks or you prevented criminals using way shrines.
The way I envision it was that if you got caught before you got the stolen items to the bank or the black market vendor - then you were caught and had a fine or bounty if you went mad and killed the NPC - otherwise you had effectively got away with it stealing wise.
Murder wise I thought that you were simply pvp taged the first time you got caught and basically you could not get rid of that tag no matter how many times NPC's or other players killed you until you had paid the bounty.
So basically for PVE only players provided they didn't kill any NPC's noone could touch them out of Crydocil.
Whats the point in stealing mats for crafting if you can't store them in the bank and use them when you want ?
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Regarding crafting: what you say makes sense, but there would then be no point in stealing these ingredients if you couldn't craft with them, other than to sell them for the pittance they are worth. Perhaps crafting with stolen ingredients would flag the product as stolen as well?Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
Stolen goods needs to be unsellable/untradeable/non-storable in bank, and should not be able to be crafted with, or people would just run with a friend and offload the stolen goods to the friend, dump it all in the bank, or simply use the items at a trade station.
As far as I can tell, the only reason to steal is to gain goods with a pricetag on them (to sell to a fence). Craftable goods should still be able to be obtained without stealing.
Keeping stolen goods not able to be crafted with will close another exploit loophole (offloading goods before being caught and making money off them without needing to find a fence), same as not being able to trade or bank them.3 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
Why - surely you will have to be able to store stolen stuff in banks - otherwise whats the point in stealing it in the first place - I can't see how the system could work if you prevented stolen goods from being kept in banks or you prevented criminals using way shrines.
The way I envision it was that if you got caught before you got the stolen items to the bank or the black market vendor - then you were caught and had a fine or bounty if you went mad and killed the NPC - otherwise you had effectively got away with it stealing wise.
Murder wise I thought that you were simply pvp taged the first time you got caught and basically you could not get rid of that tag no matter how many times NPC's or other players killed you until you had paid the bounty.
So basically for PVE only players provided they didn't kill any NPC's noone could touch them out of Crydocil.
Whats the point in stealing mats for crafting if you can't store them in the bank and use them when you want ?
Small guild storage lockers would be a good start. Much of the stolen items will be jobs, so hand ins.
You can't sell stolen goods to shops, so why would the bank take them? Just by being able to store items will make the bounty worthless. Put items in bank - go talk to guard - die - save thousands.... It does not make sense and will be abused.
What about trading with other players? Do they get a bounty if they take accept stolen goods in a trade?
I'd like to think that you can trade with other thieves. Although if the thieves guild is done like the others then it would be pointless to limit it. However if you were unable to join the guild and be a guard... possibilities.2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You shouldn't be able to trade stolen goods at all, or people will be selling their fence goods to randoms who then use them to exploit their way up the Thieves Guild (if this is how it's leveled) without doing any of the work themselves.Tannakaobi wrote: »I'd like to think that you can trade with other thieves.
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ZOS have said there'll be 'fences'.Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
Stolen goods needs to be unsellable/untradeable/non-storable in bank, and should not be able to be crafted with, or people would just run with a friend and offload the stolen goods to the friend, dump it all in the bank, or simply use the items at a trade station.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 30, 2014 11:56AM2 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭
You shouldn't be able to trade stolen goods at all, or people will be selling their fence goods to randoms who then use them to exploit their way up the Thieves Guild (if this is how it's leveled) without doing any of the work themselves.Tannakaobi wrote: »I'd like to think that you can trade with other thieves.
How would people use them to level? The leveling process would be in the actual stealing.
If you can't trade stolen goods with players then you will have no player made jobs which would be a huge loss. The word used to describe the justice system was sandbox. Zenimax want players to use it in unthinkable ways. Putting limitations like use of wayshrines and trade works against this.3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
ZIs have said there'll be 'fences'.Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
Stolen goods needs to be unsellable/untradeable/non-storable in bank, and should not be able to be crafted with, or people would just run with a friend and offload the stolen goods to the friend, dump it all in the bank, or simply use the items at a trade station.
Yes. Fences should be the only way to dispose of stolen goods - no trading stolen goods with players, no selling stolen goods to shops, no crafting with the stolen goods, no banking stolen goods.3 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
ZIs have said there'll be 'fences'.Maybe banks cannot hold stolen goods.
Stolen goods needs to be unsellable/untradeable/non-storable in bank, and should not be able to be crafted with, or people would just run with a friend and offload the stolen goods to the friend, dump it all in the bank, or simply use the items at a trade station.
Yes. Fences should be the only way to dispose of stolen goods - no trading stolen goods with players, no selling stolen goods to shops, no crafting with the stolen goods, no banking stolen goods.
What possible reason would there be to not allow trade between players of stolen goods?3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
You shouldn't be able to trade stolen goods at all, or people will be selling their fence goods to randoms who then use them to exploit their way up the Thieves Guild (if this is how it's leveled) without doing any of the work themselves.Tannakaobi wrote: »I'd like to think that you can trade with other thieves.
How would people use them to level? The leveling process would be in the actual stealing.
Leveling would take place when you sell to the fence, much in the same way you level Thieves Guild in other Elder Scrolls games by selling the stolen items to the fence.
To successfully steal you need to get to a fence and trade the goods there, the actual act of stealing isn't enough - you need to escape with the goods and get to the fence.
Limiting use of wayshrines is part of this excitement for the player - just needs to be a fence outside of town somewhere. If a player escapes on foot rather than flees through a wayshrine to a town/zone where their bounty is automatically zero it rather detracts from the whole chase thing don't you think?
I mean I'd just steal something after killing all the NPCs in a room, gaining a massive bounty...then rclick my map and port to a new town/zone where my bounty is zero. All too easy to exploit.Edited by babylon on July 30, 2014 12:03PM3 -
Durban✭✭I would hope that once a criminal, you are in a different phase, where all guards and npc's are hostile or refuse to interact with the criminal. So no bank or vendors.
4
