6 Issues - Magika builds vs Stamina Builds

Kupoking

I play and main a stamina builded templar (I know, not the best combination, but I promised myself I would not change the orientation of my character's build towards a cookie cutter build so please, no ''you should roll XXX class'' please. Besides, I have a sorc and a dk alt to test other options for stam build already).

I've leveled and put point into Bows, Dual Wield, 2 handed, 1 Handed and Shield and tested all of them. I'm wearing 7 medium and currently trying as hard as I can to make stam builds in general as optimal as possible in : 1v1 PvP, Regular AvA, Dungeons and Raids.

Right now with my build I reach 190 - 200 weapon Damage and in between 33-45% crit chance, depending on the gear/ weapon I use, as well as the Shadow Mundus Boon. I have legendary items and by sets consist of Night Mother/Hundling Rage and Dominion gear for PvP. Even with that, I still feel like I am extremely uncompetitive against, half geared or lower VR magika users.

But to be honest, I feel kind of disheartened after all of my attempts and testings. Some major factors makes Magika builds so damn more easier to run and so much more effective and that not only DPS wise but also in terms of CC, sustain and survivability. Here is a small point form recap of my observations. Note that I mostly use Stam templar vs Magika templar for my examples only because it is the class I know best.

1- Stats distribution
Magika users will only raise two stats : Magika and Health. Stam build requires you to at least get 1500 magika, if not to softcap it. Otherwise, it will hurt the build as you need those magika abilities for survivability, sustain, CC and to boost DPS. Therefore where do stam users cut? Health. A huge blow to your survivability.

2- Blocking mechanics
In PvP in general, especially in 1v1 situations, I have observed that ALL Magika users (unless they are unskilled or clueless) will be blocking 80% of the time while casting magika abilities. This not only reduces the incoming damage but also makes them immune to CC (which completely counter a dual wield build based on extra damage on CCed targets) the other 20% of the time where they will not block is if they have immovable on or run out of stamina. But note that stamina starvation can be dealth with by two effective ways : 1) Bash/Block stam cost reduction on jewelry, 2) High stam regen/Pots. The saddest part is that even with 2000 stam, I cannot outblock a magika user with 1200 stam, because I actually use the stamina to do damage and to survive. Also note that many, many Magika build in 1v1 duels involves the use of 1handed and shield in order to abuse the blocking mechanic.

3-Ultimates
We seriously lack of good ultimates for stamina users. Right now the only option we have is Flawless Dawnbreaker, because the 13% increased damage is simply a must. Its not even an option to replace it. Since Magika build have to much survivability, you need that extra edge to kill one. Of course, you could run another more damaging ult on your second bar, like Soul Assault for example. But if you do, the decreased damage you will deal on that bar will be noticable. As of magika users, most of the ults are more adapted to their gameplay.

4- General utilities of skills
In general, stam skills lack of GOOD general utility. Here I am talking about Healing, Damage Shields, Healing Reduction to name a few. Sure, some abilities will give some utility like for example Brawler will give a nice damage shield. But it will never compete with the general utility of a Blazing Shield. The only honourable mentions I have here towards stamina build is Executionner (2 hander) and Lethal Arrow. 50% heal reduction makes it extremely easier to snipe down targets that get healed. BUT the difference with a Magika templar that uses Dark flare + Power of the Light combo is that if I get attacked by a melee character at close range, my survivability rate is pretty close to zero, while the on the other hand, the magika templar will have an array of abilities to survive the assault. Same could be said with a Sorc that would just blink away for instance. In other words, I've seen them survive for a *** long time while being ganked, even by multiple attackers. As for me, I can't afford the mistake to get caught in such manner.

5- Spammable abilities
Stamina users simply cannot spam their abilities. Stam is too precious to be wasted. You must dodge, block, sprint in order to stay alive. Same cannot be said with magika, as I often see in 1v1 fights a NB spam Swallow Soul, A templar spam Biting Jabs, A DK spam Molten Whip, A Sorc spam Blink/Cristal Shards (all that while blocking, see point number 2). I guess that a lot of them use sets bonuses like the Warlock or Seducer that makes magika management so much more effective. Sad to see that stam users dont have a good counterpart except Stam Regen or Stam Cost Reduction.

6- Resto Staff
Every single person I duel uses a resto staff. Right now its pretty much unbeatable. The Magika regen you get from the heavy attack gives enough to Magika users to increase their DPS, Survive almost indefinitly, Give them time to build enough Ult to melt you with a DK banner or a Soul Assault. Some might say : but you can interrupt a resto staff heavy attack or CC it. To that my answer is : true, unless they use Immovable, which not only makes them immune to CC but also adds 1000+ armor and spell resist. Then the only thing the stam user can do is hit and hope for big crits.

To conclude I hope the new sets in 1.3 will change it for the best even though I have little hope to be honest as I feel buffs to crits% will be countered in PvP by the use of Impenetrable traits on small peices and that due to softcaps, Weapon Damage bonuses wont be as effective as anticipated. But at least its a step in the right direction and I welcome those changes with open arms as it might give the a small edge to make myself a little more competitive.

Mumyo

Didn't they also say that they will change the ultimates so you also gain additional damage by stamina and not only by magika?

I met some very good stam users in duels and was pretty impressed how strong they can be but all in all the diversity is missing in those builds.

I think u hit the facts pretty good and we should keep watching the situation after patch 1.3 and if u ask me... immovable should only be usable with something like at least 5 heavy armor parts or something.

Another problem is that they changed twilights and willows back into spellcrit so at the end the magika spellcritboys won the debate. I am a templar too and will continue sticking to magika because its the most effective way to play a templar in a team but i also got yellow staminagear because i love to play that style too.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

I agree with you. But Zenimax don't think like us.

I really want to know what can say the guy that have clicked LOL on your thread.

Kego

Mumyo wrote: »

if u ask me... immovable should only be usable with something like at least 5 heavy armor parts or something.

This should be a no-brainer. Every Armor Ability should only be usable with 5 pieces, where the specific Passive gets aviable, too.

Would be nice to see this change already in 1.3.2. It is more than necessary.

Sotha_Sil

This is an interesting thread with good suggestions and pointing out what's going wrong. There are a lot of suggestions made for the improvement of stamina builds and still no significant results. They should really wake up and work on it faster because it ruins the game diversity and fun.

semp3rfi

Yup, agreed.

They need to add a a resource trade or other dynamics

For example a stamina user could feat

mana barrier: blocking uses magika
Extreme conditioning: sprinting/dodging extends to mana bar
Mages bane: striking a staff user with a melee weapon drains mana aswell as stamina if they are blocking.

Just some ideas, they dont do anything for the dmg difference however.

dragnier

Kego wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

if u ask me... immovable should only be usable with something like at least 5 heavy armor parts or something.

This should be a no-brainer. Every Armor Ability should only be usable with 5 pieces, where the specific Passive gets aviable, too.

Would be nice to see this change already in 1.3.2. It is more than necessary.

I don't know about requiring 5 pieces, but perhaps have those abilities scale based on the number worn up to 5 pieces. For example, Immovable would have 20% effectiveness per heavy armor piece worn up to a max of 100%. This would prevent people from using it without any heavy armor but would still give usefulness in some hybrid armor situations.

madangrypally

Another big issue is Stamina builds makes most class abilities suck. Lets take a Nightblade duel wield stamina build.

I stack stamina and at soft cap. My Weapon Damage is also at soft cap. My Max Magicka is low as well as my spell damage.

Now my duel wield abilities will do more damage but all my damage class abilities will do crap damage. That means ambush and concealed weapon for example is now not as viable for a stamina build. I know they are magicka skills but they still should synergies well with stamina builds.

One main reason staffs are so popular is because a player can stack Magicka and the staffs abilities as well as the class abilities scales off of Max Magicka. Then it is simple for some classes to get to soft cap in both spell damage and weapon damage thus making their weapon and class trees synergies very well.

Solution is this:
Change how abilities scale based on either Max Magicka or Max Stamina based on whichever one is highest.

IE: I play the Stamina duel wielding Nightblade and have 2500 Stamina but only 1200 Max Magicka. I use ambush and it still cost Max Magicka but instead of the damage scaling off of Max Magicka it now scales off of Max Stamina.

Same for Ultimate's. Make them scale off of whichever stat is higher.

While they are at it they can redo the class abilities that work off of weapon crit to also scale off of weapon damage. IE: Biting Jabs, Flame Lash, and Ambush all work off of weapon crit but scales off of spell damage. This hurts melee builds because the item sets normally come with weapon crit, weapon damage, stamina, and are medium armor. So to build a weapon crit melee build a player will be wasting set bonuses.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

As a Templar, I would love to see the day, put a full set Heavy armour, wield a DW, 2H, Shield and be as effective as with my full set light armour, magicka build.

I want to be able to cast some magicka based abilities, but they cost so much Magicka on Templar, and they are close to useless when not wearing 7/7 light. In comparison, Sorcerers, Nightblades, Dragonknights magicka based abilities cost significantly less for the same if not more damage output.

And I am not only talking about normal class abilities but for Ultimates also.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Is frustrating to see how ZeniMax aren't doing nothing to fix stamina builds in this patch. I have stopped to play until Zenimax fix this issue but after 4 months waiting I am doubting that they will do it some day.

Daethz

Blocking Idea: Staffs should use a Magical Block that depletes Magicka, have a magical shield bubble pop up on the center of your staff while blocking.
Otherwise your measly wooden staff would snap in half from the first blade.

Jaxom

madangrypally wrote: »

Solution is this:
Change how abilities scale based on either Max Magicka or Max Stamina based on whichever one is highest.

IE: I play the Stamina duel wielding Nightblade and have 2500 Stamina but only 1200 Max Magicka. I use ambush and it still cost Max Magicka but instead of the damage scaling off of Max Magicka it now scales off of Max Stamina.

Same for Ultimate's. Make them scale off of whichever stat is higher.

While they are at it they can redo the class abilities that work off of weapon crit to also scale off of weapon damage. IE: Biting Jabs, Flame Lash, and Ambush all work off of weapon crit but scales off of spell damage. This hurts melee builds because the item sets normally come with weapon crit, weapon damage, stamina, and are medium armor. So to build a weapon crit melee build a player will be wasting set bonuses.

Quoting this for extra effectiveness. This solution would go a long way to help stamina builds. I also think they need to increase the Medium Armor trait "Athletics" to like 5% per peice for a total of 35% reduce cost of Dodge, but also add CC break to it. This would give Stamina builds an option and decrease the double dipping of the Stamina pool without having to resort to massive changes (creating a 3rd resource for example).

Mumyo

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Is frustrating to see how ZeniMax aren't doing nothing to fix stamina builds in this patch. I have stopped to play until Zenimax fix this issue but after 4 months waiting I am doubting that they will do it some day.

Actually they did a lot in this patch and i would say that it's smart to first see what happens before making more drastic changes! The new sets are very fine except the revamped willows and twilights due to the whiners!

A new max dmg softcap for melee was set and also a reduction of spelldmg! The new set diversity fives many new options to stambuilds... I think at least in pvp we will see some bad guys going for stam... im looking forward to it!

timidobserver

Stamina heavy builds do need some help.

However buffing stamina won't really help the primary issue. The primary issue is motivation. Players who are motivated by RP, aesthetics, some noble idea of what they want their character to be, or whatever are going to always be weaker than players that are motivated by theorycrafting the most powerful builds they can come up with using whatever the game has to offer.

Kego

Stamina DMG in PvP isn't that big of an issue. You can do fine there. But in PvE it is currently Gamebreaking if TOP DDs with Light Armor an Magicka Skill deal around 1.400 DPS and Medium Armor, Stamina Skills around 900 DPS.

Shaun98ca2

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I play and main a stamina builded templar (I know, not the best combination, but I promised myself I would not change the orientation of my character's build towards a cookie cutter build so please, no ''you should roll XXX class'' please. Besides, I have a sorc and a dk alt to test other options for stam build already).

I've leveled and put point into Bows, Dual Wield, 2 handed, 1 Handed and Shield and tested all of them. I'm wearing 7 medium and currently trying as hard as I can to make stam builds in general as optimal as possible in : 1v1 PvP, Regular AvA, Dungeons and Raids.

Right now with my build I reach 190 - 200 weapon Damage and in between 33-45% crit chance, depending on the gear/ weapon I use, as well as the Shadow Mundus Boon. I have legendary items and by sets consist of Night Mother/Hundling Rage and Dominion gear for PvP. Even with that, I still feel like I am extremely uncompetitive against, half geared or lower VR magika users.

But to be honest, I feel kind of disheartened after all of my attempts and testings. Some major factors makes Magika builds so damn more easier to run and so much more effective and that not only DPS wise but also in terms of CC, sustain and survivability. Here is a small point form recap of my observations. Note that I mostly use Stam templar vs Magika templar for my examples only because it is the class I know best.

1- Stats distribution
Magika users will only raise two stats : Magika and Health. Stam build requires you to at least get 1500 magika, if not to softcap it. Otherwise, it will hurt the build as you need those magika abilities for survivability, sustain, CC and to boost DPS. Therefore where do stam users cut? Health. A huge blow to your survivability.

2- Blocking mechanics
In PvP in general, especially in 1v1 situations, I have observed that ALL Magika users (unless they are unskilled or clueless) will be blocking 80% of the time while casting magika abilities. This not only reduces the incoming damage but also makes them immune to CC (which completely counter a dual wield build based on extra damage on CCed targets) the other 20% of the time where they will not block is if they have immovable on or run out of stamina. But note that stamina starvation can be dealth with by two effective ways : 1) Bash/Block stam cost reduction on jewelry, 2) High stam regen/Pots. The saddest part is that even with 2000 stam, I cannot outblock a magika user with 1200 stam, because I actually use the stamina to do damage and to survive. Also note that many, many Magika build in 1v1 duels involves the use of 1handed and shield in order to abuse the blocking mechanic.

3-Ultimates
We seriously lack of good ultimates for stamina users. Right now the only option we have is Flawless Dawnbreaker, because the 13% increased damage is simply a must. Its not even an option to replace it. Since Magika build have to much survivability, you need that extra edge to kill one. Of course, you could run another more damaging ult on your second bar, like Soul Assault for example. But if you do, the decreased damage you will deal on that bar will be noticable. As of magika users, most of the ults are more adapted to their gameplay.

4- General utilities of skills
In general, stam skills lack of GOOD general utility. Here I am talking about Healing, Damage Shields, Healing Reduction to name a few. Sure, some abilities will give some utility like for example Brawler will give a nice damage shield. But it will never compete with the general utility of a Blazing Shield. The only honourable mentions I have here towards stamina build is Executionner (2 hander) and Lethal Arrow. 50% heal reduction makes it extremely easier to snipe down targets that get healed. BUT the difference with a Magika templar that uses Dark flare + Power of the Light combo is that if I get attacked by a melee character at close range, my survivability rate is pretty close to zero, while the on the other hand, the magika templar will have an array of abilities to survive the assault. Same could be said with a Sorc that would just blink away for instance. In other words, I've seen them survive for a *** long time while being ganked, even by multiple attackers. As for me, I can't afford the mistake to get caught in such manner.

5- Spammable abilities
Stamina users simply cannot spam their abilities. Stam is too precious to be wasted. You must dodge, block, sprint in order to stay alive. Same cannot be said with magika, as I often see in 1v1 fights a NB spam Swallow Soul, A templar spam Biting Jabs, A DK spam Molten Whip, A Sorc spam Blink/Cristal Shards (all that while blocking, see point number 2). I guess that a lot of them use sets bonuses like the Warlock or Seducer that makes magika management so much more effective. Sad to see that stam users dont have a good counterpart except Stam Regen or Stam Cost Reduction.

6- Resto Staff
Every single person I duel uses a resto staff. Right now its pretty much unbeatable. The Magika regen you get from the heavy attack gives enough to Magika users to increase their DPS, Survive almost indefinitly, Give them time to build enough Ult to melt you with a DK banner or a Soul Assault. Some might say : but you can interrupt a resto staff heavy attack or CC it. To that my answer is : true, unless they use Immovable, which not only makes them immune to CC but also adds 1000+ armor and spell resist. Then the only thing the stam user can do is hit and hope for big crits.

To conclude I hope the new sets in 1.3 will change it for the best even though I have little hope to be honest as I feel buffs to crits% will be countered in PvP by the use of Impenetrable traits on small peices and that due to softcaps, Weapon Damage bonuses wont be as effective as anticipated. But at least its a step in the right direction and I welcome those changes with open arms as it might give the a small edge to make myself a little more competitive.

1. Stat distribution isn't really a issue for Stamina users as you claim. There are Magicka abilities that help Stamina builds regardless of points in Magicka.

2. Blocking mechanics are simply bad in this game in general since you can just hold block and cast.

3. Ultimates are being made to scale off of Magicka or Stamina so that's a fix I guess. I would of rather like actual Stamina based Ultimates instead personally.

4. General utilities of skills....This rant was SO long its hard to address. I actually find the skills Stamina builds REALLY good. Brawler for 2 handed I actually found to be BETTER than my blazing shield for me in use.

5. Spammable abilities....... Yes the abilities are anti-spam but with good use of Light/Heavy Attacks that's really a non issue. I personally like the FEEL of Stamina builds currently versus the FEEL of Magicka builds.

6. Restro Staff is OP for anything other than healer. The Magicka gain was really meant for healers but it turns out it works even better for DPSers.

At least you didn't gripe that Stamina builds have to use Stamina for Block, Dodge, Stun as I do not find this to be the issue of Stamina builds. Stamina builds are getting Stamina gain from Spellcrafting so that helps.

They simply need to increase the damage output of Light/Heavy Attacks+ abilities of Stamina builds.

With the new gear sets we get a slight shift in balance which is how they said they plan on doing things.

A few more updates and the balance SHOULD be there. Though sometimes I wonder is we should do the route of Rifts balance.

In Rift they have Melee produce higher DPS than Ranged builds as Ranged builds have an innate advantage to damage which is range. Melee having such a small range and disconnect issues makes up for the higher DPS.

Kego

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

2. Blocking mechanics are simply bad in this game in general since you can just hold block and cast.

This should be easy to solve, change the mechanic just like Melee Attacks. There is no reason to begin with, that caster can block during casting a Spell.

5. Spammable abilities....... Yes the abilities are anti-spam but with good use of Light/Heavy Attacks that's really a non issue. I personally like the FEEL of Stamina builds currently versus the FEEL of Magicka builds.

This is an interessting point of view. If I take World of Warcraft, than Rogues had around 40% White DMG with Poison Weapon Procs (Auto Attack) and 60% out of Skills. In Teso this is kinda harder, cause you have no Auto Attack, means you really have to *** your left Mouse Button for 40% White DMG.

7. Restro Staff is OP for anything other than healer. The Magicka gain was really meant for healers but it turns out it works even better for DPSers.

ZOS, please take Resto Staff to one of your Main Issues in Patch 1.4. It has to be changed in a way, that Resto Staff is no longer DPS Weapon Nr. 1 for ANY class.

In Rift they have Melee produce higher DPS than Ranged builds as Ranged builds have an innate advantage to damage which is range. Melee having such a small range and disconnect issues makes up for the higher DPS.

Not only in RIFT, in ANY MMORPG Melee DPS can push out the most DMG on a Boss, IF he could just stay and fight, what is ofc. as good as never, where in the end, the DPS of Melee and Ranged meets in the middle.

AshySamurai

- Firstly - about armor bonuses. Some offers that bonuses useable with 5 pieces. That is fantastic. Remember "play as you want"? So TBH I dont think ZOS will betray this slogan (some can say that ZOS already did it). So what if someone whant to play 2 light + 2 medium + 3 heavy? No bonuses at all? Or a little bonuses from every skill line? BTW if ZOS do what you offer, at the same moment starts a waves of complaining that ZOS force all to prefer one type of armor and not combine. So about all this in a few words - NO, that will never happen.
- Secondary - about block. I really like @Daethz idea.

Daethz wrote:

Blocking Idea: Staffs should use a Magical Block that depletes Magicka, have a magical shield bubble pop up on the center of your staff while blocking.
Otherwise your measly wooden staff would snap in half from the first blade.

IMO very reasonable. And synergises with lore perfectly.
And casting while blocking - that not cool. But that can do not only magika bilds. Hovewer - it ruin lore. So IMO block should be reworked.
- Thirdly - about damage. Because we all uses swords and bows for stamina build we want that weapon do max damage, but think if swords, daggers and other melee stuff starts to take more damage, than staff - who will use staffs? All start running with swords. And now you are able to create some sort DD Tank. Is it that you want?
- Forthly - my own question. Why shield skills like obsidian shield or blazing shield dont scale of health? It's pretty logical. Or not?

Kego

AshySamurai wrote: »

- Firstly - about armor bonuses. Some offers that bonuses useable with 5 pieces. That is fantastic. Remember "play as you want"? So TBH I dont think ZOS will betray this slogan (some can say that ZOS already did it). So what if someone whant to play 2 light + 2 medium + 3 heavy? No bonuses at all? Or a little bonuses from every skill line?

You do know, that this is already the case? There are already Passive Skills that only take effect if you wear 5 piece armor or if you Slot a Skill from a specific Line. You can not use any Dual Wield Skills with 1Hand and Shild eather.

And, you can always play as you want, they never said, that every playstyle will be competitive. If you want f.e. an active Skill form Armor than you should wear 5 of it. If you don't want it, than you will not have access to this skill. It is not like everyone is currently using Unstoppable but, what can not be, is that some one takes 7 piece Light Armor, slot the Skill Unstoppable and is tough like a Heavy Armor Tank.

BTW if ZOS do what you offer, at the same moment starts a waves of complaining that ZOS force all to prefer one type of armor and not combine. So about all this in a few words - NO, that will never happen.

It is already the case. If you are a Magicka User, you slot at least 5 Light Armor, if you are a Stamina User, you slot at least 5 Medium Armor. The only Armor that is currently "broken" is Heavy Armor, cause you can not DPS with it and a Light Armor Tank with Unstoppable can do better than a Heavy Armor wearer.

- Thirdly - about damage. Because we all uses swords and bows for stamina build we want that weapon do max damage, but think if swords, daggers and other melee stuff starts to take more damage, than staff - who will use staffs? All start running with swords. And now you are able to create some sort DD Tank. Is it that you want?

Currently in PvE, a Staff DD does around 1.400 DPS and a Dual Weapon User around 900 DPS. 2Handers and Bows are even worse with around 600-700 DPS.
We are not taking about making Melee way stronger than Range Nuker, we are talking about Balance. No one would cry out if Melee DPS would be 100-200 DPS lower or better than Magicka, because there are always flaws depending on Player Skill and Boss Mechanics. But currently we are taking about a gap of 500-800 DPS between Magicka and Stamina Builds.

About 1H + Shild DPS: Why not? If someone creates such a DPS Build it would contains only Skills from Classes and Guilds/World Factions. Even though, some one like this will still only wear Light or Medium Armor, cause Heavy does not provide any good DPS.

Sunrock

Very well written post. Really liked it. However the sad part is that the devs already know all this. It's not news to anyone that played during the beta even. And still they do nothing.

Sunrock

AshySamurai wrote: »

- Firstly - about armor bonuses. Some offers that bonuses useable with 5 pieces. That is fantastic. Remember "play as you want"?

Play as you want does not mean that every option will be really good. Play as you want also means that you have the option to play a really crappy build too.

monden1980b16_ESO

madangrypally wrote: »

Solution is this:
Change how abilities scale based on either Max Magicka or Max Stamina based on whichever one is highest.

Even better would be to use (magicka+stamina)/2 for calculation of class abilitiy and ultimate damage.

If only the higher of the two values is used, hybrid specs (mediocre magicka and stamina values) will still be in a disadvantage compared to those only stacking magicka OR stamina.

I think this would be a large step to balance stamina and magicka users. Maybe it could even close the gap between these two playstyles and make further balancing obsolete (some fine tuning may be still needed of course).

(houimetub17_ESO you have my sympathy, playing a stamina based *cough* "DPS" *cough* templar as well)

AshySamurai

@Kego‌

You do know, that this is already the case? There are already Passive Skills that only take effect if you wear 5 piece armor or if you Slot a Skill from a specific Line. You can not use any Dual Wield Skills with 1Hand and Shild eather.

And, you can always play as you want, they never said, that every playstyle will be competitive. If you want f.e. an active Skill form Armor than you should wear 5 of it. If you don't want it, than you will not have access to this skill. It is not like everyone is currently using Unstoppable but, what can not be, is that some one takes 7 piece Light Armor, slot the Skill Unstoppable and is tough like a Heavy Armor Tank.

Yep. I know about 5 piece armor passive. But this is the only one. I thought you all are talking about to make all passives 5 piece armor. And now, after you words, you know, maybe you're right. ZOS should make armor active skills for 5 piece or maybe some penalties if you less then 5 piece. Like if you wear 2 heavy, you get 20 or 40% of max skill bonus. It's pretty fair IMO.

You can not use any Dual Wield Skills with 1Hand and Shild eather.

Because you cant wield 1H+S and dual wield in the same time. You have only 2 arms))) (but if you was a Goro that would be possible )

Currently in PvE, a Staff DD does around 1.400 DPS and a Dual Weapon User around 900 DPS. 2Handers and Bows are even worse with around 600-700 DPS.

I saw this numbers somewhere here.
And now serious. If we talking about ballance, then all fine. But I really dont want melee wheapons be OP.

It's a pity that ZOS probably will not pay any attention to this post.

Reman

Okay i know this isn't about the Topic but will Twilghts really have Spellcrit again? Because befor it was pretty much the best Tank Set u can get. Mages will still be OP so why "nerf" a Tank. I mean this doesnt makes sence because ALL other Effects of this Set are tanky.

Please ZOS if this is really so plus change it back again.

Xnemesis

Jaxom wrote: »

madangrypally wrote: »

Solution is this:
Change how abilities scale based on either Max Magicka or Max Stamina based on whichever one is highest.

IE: I play the Stamina duel wielding Nightblade and have 2500 Stamina but only 1200 Max Magicka. I use ambush and it still cost Max Magicka but instead of the damage scaling off of Max Magicka it now scales off of Max Stamina.

Same for Ultimate's. Make them scale off of whichever stat is higher.

While they are at it they can redo the class abilities that work off of weapon crit to also scale off of weapon damage. IE: Biting Jabs, Flame Lash, and Ambush all work off of weapon crit but scales off of spell damage. This hurts melee builds because the item sets normally come with weapon crit, weapon damage, stamina, and are medium armor. So to build a weapon crit melee build a player will be wasting set bonuses.

Quoting this for extra effectiveness. This solution would go a long way to help stamina builds. I also think they need to increase the Medium Armor trait "Athletics" to like 5% per peice for a total of 35% reduce cost of Dodge, but also add CC break to it. This would give Stamina builds an option and decrease the double dipping of the Stamina pool without having to resort to massive changes (creating a 3rd resource for example).

I have suggested two solutions one similar to what you are asking for and another that calculates damage based off of your total resources of Magicka and stamina/2. I didn't get much positive feedback though and mostly trolls decided to comment.

The first option would require less work but encourage players to stack only one resource, while the second option is better cause it forces the player to stack their alternate resource due to over charge mechanics. It would require more work but I would love to see the pooled resources option hit PTS and then live.

Abilities would obviously still cost Magicka or stamina regardless and stacking one before the other would still be wise based on ability usage. Hybrid builds would flourish and become slightly more viable.

I would also like to see the armor/spell resist on items reduced and the cap raised a bit. Unless you are a tank in at least 5 heavy epic pieces you should not hit the cap for either.

My suggestion was to add an armor/spell resist buff in the one-hand shield line that would push you quite close to the caps could be three point passive that increases up as you lvl up. I would also remove the melee damage buff from one-hand and shield. Maybe add in an AoE shout taunt.

I would also like to see a return on stamina and health when you block a successful "HEAVY" attack for medium armor. A 100% chance to crit for light armor when you block a "HEAVY" attack(This is for all the spell casters crying about their crit nerf). And a return on health, stamina, and Magicka, when blocking a "Heavy attack for heavy armor. All could be passives and percentage based. Again only when you block a heavy attack not just fluff damage.

I would also like to see bows auto fire when a heavy attack is fully charged. As it stands you have no way to know you are full drawn. This will become even more troublesome once haste and weighted traits are fixed for bows. Either that or a sound/FX would be a nice tweak anything would help tbh.

Melee weapon damage should get a significant boost IMO. You are in the thick of battle and probably taking a ton of damage. You should be able to without a doubt cut a clothy in two ease if you get to them.

Make the armor active abilities require 5 pieces of that type. Oh the tears will flow but its a needed change.

Fix werewolf start from scratch its just plain useless in current form.

Last but not least I would like to see some weapon line ultimates.

Please feel free to expand or add to this list.

Oh and change block to 270 degrees and the rear 90 can be a 5 piece heavy passive that can be picked up but at a lovwer mitigation then the front 270. Also you can still be cced from the rear.

AshySamurai

Xnemesis wrote:

Make the armor active abilities require 5 pieces of that type. Oh the tears will flow but its a needed change.

AshySamurai wrote:

... or maybe some penalties if you less then 5 piece. Like if you wear 2 heavy, you get 20 or 40% of max skill bonus. It's pretty fair IMO.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Kego wrote: »

Stamina DMG in PvP isn't that big of an issue. You can do fine there. But in PvE it is currently Gamebreaking if TOP DDs with Light Armor an Magicka Skill deal around 1.400 DPS and Medium Armor, Stamina Skills around 900 DPS.

How!!!???.

Show me a Stamina build that can deal not 900 DPS but 600 DPS and I will take it. Assuming is not theoretical relying on critical damage.

Because 600 (theoretical) DPS I just generate with my 7/7 Light Armoured Templar, spamming Puncturing Sweep while Blazing Spear is down. This with 2100 Magicka and 117 Spell Power.

Kego

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcsztx0k9MW9M8w2lm8w2BO8GHR18IPbk8A4fM8LxRn8wABe8GFts8wAEb808A4fM8Ir3D8p7CcdBET6MdBvj6MdBvT8x7GLsfw6MwGN16MwGAs6Lsfr8t7HLsgZ6rsgW6MwS3c6MwYlv6MwYle6MwUlN6MwYl26LsgX8C7JLzqa6LzqG6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7DLzdR6MIrEf6MIrv36MIrEh8F7DMIPNU6MIPAT6MIPAh6LzrJ8O7RLdeB6rdeC6MA3FN6MA3FL8P7acLncn6rdYw8U7mrrWE8zz7pztyfm6ctyfR8za7oLGF36rGH08zf7zzNbo8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

Will net you @ 700-900 DPS depending on Bosses and Raid Buffs. (Ofc. with Heavy Attack clipping)

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

@‌Kego
Thank you mate, I will give it a try
Already saw some potential since I am Templar, for tad more dps

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

Kego wrote: »

We are not taking about making Melee way stronger than Range Nuker, we are talking about Balance. No one would cry out if Melee DPS would be 100-200 DPS lower or better than Magicka, because there are always flaws depending on Player Skill and Boss Mechanics. But currently we are taking about a gap of 500-800 DPS between Magicka and Stamina Builds.

Melee should be doing as much damage as a ranged nuker. The tradeoff of being a melee dps is that you are in harms way at all times. Even with extra armor to absorb more of a hit, you are in most circumstances in danger far more often than a ranged character. Melee also need to move of combat regularly to avoid close range boss mechanics which further cripples their dps.

Certainly not saying they should do more damage but given the inherent danger of being a melee character they certainly should not do less.

Voodoo

"The Konk" already stated he is working on improving stamina builds as well as medium Armour stats towards stamina builds.

I say some spells should be stamina based period! Lower the cost of dodge and maybe use magika to deal with being CC'd.

I am a healer but dang I like to play this game using no magika abilities if so desired.