Refund crafting materials or cancel setbonus changes

Snit

Syntse wrote: »

Tried to look through the Dev Tracker but was not able to see any comment on these threads from devs. Since they are doing such overhaul I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated by players to know how they are going handle this set change..

They're overwhelmingly likely to ignore the issue. Once a change gets to PTS, it's nearly certain to make it to live. PTS appears to be mostly for stability testing.

There have been a few cases where they've reacted to player feedback. But they usually don't even acknowledge it, other than reminding us not to insult each other too much

Snit

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Here's a tip.
Make new stuff.

Yes, that's what most people will do. The complaint is that they're being forced to do so, when some have 100k, or 200k invested in current gear. It's odd for gear currently being worn to be nerfed (and if you're a DPS focused on spell crit, having that change to health recovery is a definite nerf). It's therefore perceived as unusual and unfair.

This change affects a minority of the player base, so naturally it attracts comments from the unaffected who either don't care, or who enjoy the fact that someone else got stepped on. Because... people.

Samadhi

I have a 3 piece Willows Path set upgraded to Yellow.
I have a 5 piece Twilight's Embrace set upgraded to Purple.

Both of these sets will no longer have benefit to me after the update.

I don't mind replacing them with newly crafted and upgraded sets.
I don't need the materials replaced.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Snit wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Here's a tip.
Make new stuff.

Yes, that's what most people will do. The complaint is that they're being forced to do so, when some have 100k, or 200k invested in current gear. It's odd for gear currently being worn to be nerfed (and if you're a DPS focused on spell crit, having that change to health recovery is a definite nerf). It's therefore perceived as unusual and unfair.

This change affects a minority of the player base, so naturally it attracts comments from the unaffected who either don't care, or who enjoy the fact that someone else got stepped on. Because... people.

I don't think this is a case of schadenfreude so much as simply people having unrealistic expectations and the backlash that ensues. I agree that the answer should not have been to nerf the set gear, maybe add bonuses if you equip more pieces or just add new set gear and leave the current alone. The fact is that as it stands they are not going to do that and right or wrong it's not something that every MMO hasn't done at one time or another. Threatening to quit the game over something that you should be fully aware could have happened at anytime is just childish. It's in the agreement. I can only assume that people aren't aware of it or they simply didn't take it seriously. The bottom line is that they are not owed anything legally or otherwise from ZOS.

Matuzes

Snit wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Here's a tip.
Make new stuff.

Yes, that's what most people will do. The complaint is that they're being forced to do so, when some have 100k, or 200k invested in current gear. It's odd for gear currently being worn to be nerfed (and if you're a DPS focused on spell crit, having that change to health recovery is a definite nerf). It's therefore perceived as unusual and unfair.

With new sets you can have more spell crit. Rised softcaps for magica and more ways to get spell power will rise your dps more then 10% spell crit. People are just to lazy to create character on PTS and test how new patch works.

People who complain about changes, just want best gear without any effort.

Syntse

Snit wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Tried to look through the Dev Tracker but was not able to see any comment on these threads from devs. Since they are doing such overhaul I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated by players to know how they are going handle this set change..

They're overwhelmingly likely to ignore the issue. Once a change gets to PTS, it's nearly certain to make it to live. PTS appears to be mostly for stability testing.

There have been a few cases where they've reacted to player feedback. But they usually don't even acknowledge it, other than reminding us not to insult each other too much

And PTS offers new templates so this cannot be verified even there. I would hope they would react a bit since this really effects people who are thinking on creating new set of armors.

Maverick827

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Threatening to quit the game over something that you should be fully aware could have happened at anytime is just childish.

Gear changing to such a degree is not something that anyone would expect to happen - MMO veterans or otherwise.

The only thing childish in this thread is people bring against refunds.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Threatening to quit the game over something that you should be fully aware could have happened at anytime is just childish.

Gear changing to such a degree is not something that anyone would expect to happen - MMO veterans or otherwise.

The only thing childish in this thread is people bring against refunds.

I'm sorry but it is expected. To say that it's not something anyone would expect is just incorrect. I certainly wasn't surprised. I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

Maverick827

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

Lyall84

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

Changing set bonuses? Not too often. Making all the "shiny epix" completely useless? Every single MMO that ever released an expansion or raised a level cap.

Same thing happened in this game when Craiglorn was released. Did it suck having to deconstruct VR10 gear in hopes to get a few of my materials back to upgrade VR12 gear? Absolutely. Was I expecting some sort of refund due to player outlash? Of course not.

Rule of the game is to knock down your sand castle periodically so you continue to play and build it back up. Otherwise you get bored and leave the sandbox.

Good thing about this is that we know in advance. So start farming and stocking up.

Maverick827

Lyall84 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

Changing set bonuses? Not too often. Making all the "shiny epix" completely useless? Every single MMO that ever released an expansion or raised a level cap.

Considering the former and the latter are two entirely separate circumstances, and we're only experiencing and discussing the former, I rest my case.

Selodaoc

Thats exactly it. Were not talking about an expansion or raised level cap.

Matuzes

Selodaoc wrote: »

Thats exactly it. Were not talking about an expansion or raised level cap.

Big thanks to @ZOS for that. In mostly all other MMOs you have only one option for endgame set. In TESO you can decide what to wear.
People crying about 2 or 3 sets, you know why? Because rest sets are moderate, bad or totally sucks, thats why ZOS change them. After patch, we will have more options to choose.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

DAOC (artefacts mainly)

EVE Online (changed ships, missiles, ECM many times, including skills that took 2 months to learn) and years after the game was out. Rendering years of play and training completely useless and gazillions spent on weapons & ships down the sink. (that took years to gather).

SB (when came out)

SWG

Want more?

Maverick827

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

DAOC (artefacts mainly)

EVE Online (changed ships, missiles, ECM many times, including skills that took 2 months to learn) and years after the game was out. Rendering years of play and training completely useless and gazillions spent on weapons & ships down the sink. (that took years to gather).

SB (when came out)

SWG

Want more?

SB = Shadowbane? I don't recall any item stat changes post-launch. Even if there were, Shadowbane wasn't a very gear-focused game. It was incredibly easy to get and replace gear in that game (and I mean actually easy, not easy in the way people say obtaining 100 Dreugh Wax is easy).

If you're referring to the loss of FC gear, that only happened during the reboot, the most last-ditch of last-ditch efforts after the game was entirely dead. It would only have affected an incredibly small handful of players, probably only a dozen or so. This change will affect tens of thousands in what should be the game's most crucial of times.

I can't seem to find any information regarding the other games online. Do you have any sources?

Also, how would refunds negatively affect you?

Artemiisia

Maverick827 wrote: »

Brandoid wrote: »

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Brandoid wrote: »

To the posts about spending 300k and the one about the guy's friend having 1million gold worth of gear: Bull$h1t.

You/they are doing it wrong. You got scammed hard by whoever sold you the mats.

So playing with different builds and using multiple legendary vr12 sets is doing it wrong? Wow I'm glad your not a dev because I certainly would not play a game made by u.

Not that is not wrong at all. I simply cannot imagine using so much time acquiring that much gold just give it to another player who is asking too much for it.

I see legendary materials go for as low as 2k sometimes, but it stands to reason that you can't always get that kind of a deal, so let's say 2.5k on average.

You need 8 legendary materials to upgrade 1 item, so that's 2.5 * 8 = 20k per item.

Now, you need either 8 or 9 pieces per set. Let's just stick with 8. So for one set, that's 160k. If you have two sets, then that's 320k.

Seems like pretty standard numbers to me.

Some even have 3 sets of armors.

pvp armor
pve heal armor
pve dd armor

thats already 480k from legendary mats

not counting the glyphs u need to make as well, for crafted gear, thats another 60k worth of mats for 3 sets

Selodaoc

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

DAOC (artefacts mainly)

DaoC never changed stats on artifacts to something completly different.

Matuzes wrote: »

Big thanks to @ZOS for that. In mostly all other MMOs you have only one option for endgame set. In TESO you can decide what to wear.
People crying about 2 or 3 sets, you know why? Because rest sets are moderate, bad or totally sucks, thats why ZOS change them. After patch, we will have more options to choose.

Thats all good, we all want more options. However they shoudla added more sets, not change existing sets completly to make them useless for people already wearing them.

It might be ok for people that hit VR12 1month+ ago and already have mats/gold to craft new sets by doing trials etc, but some of us just hit VR12 couple of days ago and dont have the replacement materials.
We dont want to farm public dungeon mobs along with the bots just to make up for ZOS stupid decisions. I detest any kind of "farming" and i already collected my stuff for VR12 once.

Zerikin

If they were just nerfing the stats, say reducing the spell crit on willow to 4% that would be fine, the set still does the same thing. Completely changing the bonus is not a normal or acceptable change without compensation.

akriden

Samadhi wrote: »

I have a 3 piece Willows Path set upgraded to Yellow.
I have a 5 piece Twilight's Embrace set upgraded to Purple.

Both of these sets will no longer have benefit to me after the update.

me too and 2 other crafted sets will be useless for me. i'll quit, if this patch goes live with these changes.

Feidam

The level of "I demand X" in this game is staggering. Yes it sucks that we will have to remake all our sets, but it is hardly the end of the world. I encourage you to take a step back though and look at the larger picture. These changes are continuing to move the game in the right direction. The willow set seems to be the one most are upset about and the change to that set isn't going to destroy anyone's build if they wear it for a bit.

Another thing to consider in a game with constant content updates nothing will stay the same forever. Furthermore, it's not like we haven't had any notice here. Start collecting for you next sets.

Personally, I like the changes. Seemed off to me that you stack two and three set bonuses to begin with. While I prefer to play mage classes myself, I am hoping the new itemization will help to close/lessen the gap between magicka and stamina builds.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

MMOs? no.. any game that wants its game play to be competitive. yes.

Maverick827 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I have seen it happen many times in MMO's.

AAA MMOs? Name them.

DAOC (artefacts mainly)

EVE Online (changed ships, missiles, ECM many times, including skills that took 2 months to learn) and years after the game was out. Rendering years of play and training completely useless and gazillions spent on weapons & ships down the sink. (that took years to gather).

SB (when came out)

SWG

Want more?

SB = Shadowbane? I don't recall any item stat changes post-launch. Even if there were, Shadowbane wasn't a very gear-focused game. It was incredibly easy to get and replace gear in that game (and I mean actually easy, not easy in the way people say obtaining 100 Dreugh Wax is easy).

If you're referring to the loss of FC gear, that only happened during the reboot, the most last-ditch of last-ditch efforts after the game was entirely dead. It would only have affected an incredibly small handful of players, probably only a dozen or so. This change will affect tens of thousands in what should be the game's most crucial of times.

I can't seem to find any information regarding the other games online. Do you have any sources?

Also, how would refunds negatively affect you?

It is incredibly easy to get gear in this game..Is it wrong for me to believe you have an agenda to maintain magicka > stamina imbalance? or are you just completely naive? Gear makes up, maybe, 30 percent of your characters overall stats. The only exception being armour.(a completely useless stat since every is using resto staffs to spam class skills, checking against spell resistance) The difference between green and legendary is, maybe, 2 or 3 percent of that. you realize that small of a margin can be completely negated by missing a heavy attack or having one of your more costly spells blocked/reflected? The biggest difference gear makes is in the l/m/h passives and set bonuses, which, only a few are affected by item quality, and they aren't willows path or twilight.

The point is, this is an action/reaction based MMO. Its not warcrap, the outcome of every fight is not determined by my level > your level, or my tier of gear > your tier of gear. Even less so when your running around in zergs and the number of players on each side is uneven. seige weapons, keep npc. I could go on and on about why the quality of gear is insignificant.

What says you don't take compensation mats and completely respec to new fotm? or switch from 6 set bonus to the 8 set bonus's which will become common soon? or sell them? Who said compensation was even possible? Compensation will completely flood the improvement mats market, which is still returning from the dupe. None of you actually spent 300k on a set of legendary. Improvement mats used to be common from the dupe, and their drop rate has probably been nerfed since then. Face it. No1 was supposed to be wearing full legendary 3 months in.

akriden wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I have a 3 piece Willows Path set upgraded to Yellow.
I have a 5 piece Twilight's Embrace set upgraded to Purple.

Both of these sets will no longer have benefit to me after the update.

me too and 2 other crafted sets will be useless for me. i'll quit, if this patch goes live with these changes.

bye.

Maverick827

Birfreben_Kinghelred wrote: »

MMOs? no.. any game that wants its game play to be competitive. yes.

What is this even supposed to mean?

Maverick827 wrote: »

It is incredibly easy to get gear in this game.

No it isn't. In Shadowbane gear broke and was gone forever if you didn't keep up with the repairs. The game was designed for gear to be replaced frequently without the addition of new content (in the game's entire life span, there was only ever one increase in gear stats; day one of Shadowbane +8 Defense +40 Health was the best gear you could get, on it's last day, +9 Defense +45 Health was the best).

You would have a town full of NPCs making you gear for zero materials, it would just get made for free with no effort on your part. Also, there was no concept of bound gear in Shadowbane. The two games "ease" of getting gear isn't even remotely comparable.

Is it wrong for me to believe you have an agenda to maintain magicka > stamina imbalance?

Laughably so, because nothing about being for gear compensation has anything to do with stamina vs magicka.

or are you just completely naive?

I was naive to think that you could handle this discussion without name calling, apparently.

The point is, this is an action/reaction based MMO. Its not warcrap, the outcome of every fight is not determined by my level > your level, or my tier of gear > your tier of gear. Even less so when your running around in zergs and the number of players on each side is uneven. seige weapons, keep npc. I could go on and on about why the quality of gear is insignificant.

Are you so selfish one-track minded that you don't even consider PvE?

None of you actually spent 300k on a set of legendary.

This is an absurd statement. The prices and breakdowns have been posted many times already. You're backtracking into already-lost ground in this argument because you can't make any forward progress.

I ask you again, how does other people getting refunds affect you? Unless you've already told me:

Compensation will completely flood the improvement mats market

BrassRazoo

Snit wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Here's a tip.
Make new stuff.

Yes, that's what most people will do. The complaint is that they're being forced to do so, when some have 100k, or 200k invested in current gear. It's odd for gear currently being worn to be nerfed (and if you're a DPS focused on spell crit, having that change to health recovery is a definite nerf). It's therefore perceived as unusual and unfair.

This change affects a minority of the player base, so naturally it attracts comments from the unaffected who either don't care, or who enjoy the fact that someone else got stepped on. Because... people.

I assume you think I am unaffected.
I am VR12 and recently made 5 piece Night Mother and 3 Part Willow's Path all with Legendary Upgrades and Enchants and it did not cost me a cent just a bit of time and effort.

I am disappointed but my life is not ending and neither is my subscription.
I will make new stuff and I look forward to experimenting and seeing the new combinations I can make.

Birfreben_Kinghelred

Maverick827 wrote: »

Birfreben_Kinghelred wrote: »

MMOs? no.. any game that wants its game play to be competitive. yes.

What is this even supposed to mean?

It means any competitive game (a game where people attempt to actually beat one another and not just take turns flipping keeps for points to buy gear) undergoes regular balance changes.

Maverick827 wrote: »

It is incredibly easy to get gear in this game.

No it isn't. In Shadowbane gear broke and was gone forever if you didn't keep up with the repairs. The game was designed for gear to be replaced frequently without the addition of new content (in the game's entire life span, there was only ever one increase in gear stats; day one of Shadowbane +8 Defense +40 Health was the best gear you could get, on it's last day, +9 Defense +45 Health was the best).

You would have a town full of NPCs making you gear for zero materials, it would just get made for free with no effort on your part. Also, there was no concept of bound gear in Shadowbane. The two games "ease" of getting gear isn't even remotely comparable.

Have you ever tried to sell a stack of mats in this game? protip, you cant, they're worthless. i've crafted at least 20 full sets of gear since vr1, currently vr 7, and still I am vendoring 3-4 full stacks of mats every time I get to a new gear level.

Is it wrong for me to believe you have an agenda to maintain magicka > stamina imbalance?

Laughably so, because nothing about being for gear compensation has anything to do with stamina vs magicka.

Except that the only ones complaining are wearing willows/twilights, for spell crit, obviously for magicka builds. No? and with these set changes there are a lot of buffs to stamina sets. you and I both know compensation will not happen. All your trying to do is delay this change.

or are you just completely naive?

I was naive to think that you could handle this discussion without name calling, apparently.

Naive... a name.

The point is, this is an action/reaction based MMO. Its not warcrap, the outcome of every fight is not determined by my level > your level, or my tier of gear > your tier of gear. Even less so when your running around in zergs and the number of players on each side is uneven. Seige weapons, keep npc. I could go on and on about why the quality of gear is insignificant.

Are you so selfish one-track minded that you don't even consider PvE?

What I said applies to pve as well.

None of you actually spent 300k on a set of legendary.

This is an absurd statement. The prices and breakdowns have been posted many times already. You're backtracking into already-lost ground in this argument because you can't make any forward progress.

It is not, considering the first month this game had a dupe bug, I remember most legendary mats going for 1k average. I've been subbed and playing since the beginning of april. I haven't purchased any legendary or even any green improvement mats. I have 30 dreugh wax, and 14 of the blacksmithing legendary. Your telling me that the people in this thread claiming they have 3 or 4 complete legendary sets didn't buy any of those improvement mats in the first month? when the prices of said mats were a third of what they are now? The prices of legendary mats are still going up.

I ask you again, how does other people getting refunds affect you? Unless you've already told me:

Compensation will completely flood the improvement mats market

yep, you got me, in a month ill need to buy 30~ dreugh wax for the legendary achievement (only reason to get legendary mats, imo) and it's really in my self interest for the price of said mats to not drop to half of what it is now.

Next time you type out three paragraphs. say something.

Maverick827

Next time you reply to a post, format it correctly.

Selodaoc

Still wrong :P

Lord_Etrigan

Not sure if this question has been asked as I can't seem to find any info on this.

What happens to all the veteran crafting material with the DB update?
I have been hording like crazy and have a good surplus of grafting material from vet 1 to 16.

Birdovic

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

Not sure if this question has been asked as I can't seem to find any info on this.

What happens to all the veteran crafting material with the DB update?
I have been hording like crazy and have a good surplus of grafting material from vet 1 to 16.

Wow that was a thread necro at its finest

To answer your question:

V1-v16 mats will be renamed to CP10-CP160, thats all