Charge&Talon Combo

nukeyoo

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

English is not my native english, these are international forums, get over it. It seems you are the only one who didn`t get my message.

If you would`ve bothered checking the posts of this thread you`d quickly realize what I was saying with my first sentence. No insult at all. Since you obviously haven`t I will waste a bit more of my time with explanations to someone who`s just trying to look clever:

nukeyoo wrote: »

If you're going to attempt to insult someone you could you please arrange the insult in a grammatical manner that allows people to understand it? Or was it an insult? I can't tell.

As I said I could not understand whether you were implying insult. Regardless of what the language is being spoken/written if it is grammatically unclear; people may not understand it. They shouldn't be required to read the entire thread to decipher the grammatical meaning behind your single post.

To which I had read the entire thread before I said I did not understand. Rereading it a second time did not help either. It's meaning is left open to ones own interpretation thus me asking for the intended meaning.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Please quote me saying DKs should stop using invasion & talons! Please quote me complaining, that my chain casted shards cause me to die to DKs! Learn to read posts before answering to them. You make yourself look like a fool throwing wild accusations into an otherwise totally objective discussion (well, aside of a few comments which were not made by me).

As far as "wild accusations" I threw none out. Please "quote me" where I specifically implicate you of saying or doing something you didn't. You put yourself in a hypothetical situation of "Dieing while doing stuff is fun, dieing while lieing down is not". I used a hypothetical situation of what most likely could happen to you and a means of possibly avoiding it.

I never said the situation happened to you; that's why I used the word "if". Nor did I claim you said DK's to stop using it; just that expecting that was "dumb and slow".

Mojomonkeyman wrote:

It was never up to discussion for me whether people have to find solutions around the issue (thats the most natural process), nor that I have problems dealing with it (which I don`t), I was just highlighting that there is indeed an issue with cc mechanics very well displayed and experienced by the example of the DK class.

Since it was not up for discussion for you; you're chastising me for offering people a possible solution around the issue until it can be addressed?

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Yeah, now keep on writing passive-aggressive paragraphs trying to convince the world that you`re a great forum warrior with ingenius ideas on how to work around issues.

So much love.

I'm not attempting to convince anyone of anything. I merely offered a suggestion for folks until the matter is addressed; which was met with your disdain. To which I've responded. I apologize if our conversation has offended you. I meant no insult.

God bless

HiP

so much hate here !
we all know all DKs are noob players that have to rely on exploiting bugs anyway to kill other players, that's not news, no need to defend yourself

more seriously, that bug does not occur occasionnaly at all, it happens all the time. even if you have enough stamina to break the stun AND dodge roll out of the root. (which negates completely your combo, but leaves us open to the next cc).
also, asking people to block all incoming charges is silly. situational awareness also includes resources awareness. if you have just enough stamina to cc break, you should not always block charges. in RvR games, it's rarely 1v1, so blocking your charge when i'm low on stamina leaves me open to your next CC, or the CC of your allies, i'd much rather take your charge stun/KD, break it, and benefit from 5 sec of cc immunity that protects me from your AND your allies...

if you think your combo is effective on most players, because they always lie down and die, maybe it is because you always get the bug, and think badly of all your targets ("dumb and slow"...), while maybe they all tried to break free but could not because of the bug.
taking all that into account, what does it mean for your combo when it's fixed ?half of the players will continue to die until they learn to break your cc's quickly, but the other half will show you that your combo actually gives them an advantage in the fight.

maybe a DK with green dragon blood, spec'd in one hand + shield (keeping his block up 100% of the time) won't be able to understand... until he dies from the bug several times in a row.

nukeyoo

HiP wrote: »

asking people to block all incoming charges is silly. situational awareness also includes resources awareness. if you have just enough stamina to cc break, you should not always block charges. in RvR games, it's rarely 1v1, so blocking your charge when i'm low on stamina leaves me open to your next CC, or the CC of your allies, i'd much rather take your charge stun/KD, break it, and benefit from 5 sec of cc immunity that protects me from your AND your allies...

HiP wrote:

that bug does not occur occasionnaly at all, it happens all the time.

The first highlighted quote does not happen if the second occurs like you say.

There are times when not blocking/dodging CC is favorable. Never said there wasn't. But if you're being bugged out "all the time" and dying lying on the ground with resources left over. Perhaps rolling the dice in hopes of breaking CC which never works is the silly choice until the issue is addressed?

Btw I play a sorc and have been subject to this bug many of times. Less so when I started to block and dodge more. I'm not saying it will win the fight doing so, but at least the person may avoid being a pin cushion laying on the ground with full resources screaming profanities at their kb/monitor and threatening to throw their mouse across the room.

Mojomonkeyman

@nukeyoo‌

Thanks for explaining yourself. Just wanted to make clear that my sole intend replying in this thread was to agree that unbreakable cc is indeed a problem, no matter what class or skill combination is causing it.

The grammar/insult thingy got me on the wrong foot, guess. Apologies.

Best regards

HiP

nukeyoo wrote: »

The first highlighted quote does not happen if the second occurs like you say.

There are times when not blocking/dodging CC is favorable. Never said there wasn't. But if you're being bugged out "all the time" and dying lying on the ground with resources left over. Perhaps rolling the dice in hopes of breaking CC which never works is the silly choice until the issue is addressed?

Btw I play a sorc and have been subject to this bug many of times. Less so when I started to block and dodge more. I'm not saying it will win the fight doing so, but at least the person may avoid being a pin cushion laying on the ground with full resources screaming profanities at their kb/monitor and threatening to throw their mouse across the room.

you would be right if every ennemy that charges me with a shield always root me instantly afterwards
the bug happens all the time, yes : every time you get both type of cc on you at the same time. if they are applied separately, and you break them one after the other before the root comes, you're safe.

i prefer learning to play the right way, and dying from the bug, instead of pickup up bad habits until the bug is fixed. correcting a bug is easier and faster than correcting a habit.
at the beginning of the game, i used to block everything, that turned out to be a very poor tactic. choosing what to block and what to endure allowed me to stay alive, and kill my opponents, especially when i found myself alone against 2 or 3 ennemies with a very limited stamina pool. in our specific example, breaking the charge, but keeping the root (even with the dot hurting badly) is a valid choice as long as you have the control of your character.

nukeyoo

To each their own

apostate9

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

show previous quotes

apostate9 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

It's broken. I love when the same garbage DK does this to me repeatedly like its the only two skills they have on their bar.. So bad.. So bad..

In other words, you hate getting roflstomped because you suck at PVP. You wish opponents would show how elite they are, and use a broader spectrum of inefficient skill combos, thus giving you more time to spam your broken crystal shards or whatnot. So to recap, *garbage players* are the ones that crush you repeatedly like an insect, and *good* player are the ones who accommodate you, and die.

Understood.

Try an easier game. Here's a hanky.

Uhm, he was talking about players mainly using two skills that, in combination, reportedly cause cc break to not work. Sorry, that it is your class that can reproduce this abuse with 100% certainty, but your analysis is pretty much crap.

According to your logic, any exploit would be legit and "good", just because it is efficient?

I played serious PvP games for 10 years (starcraft) and I can guarantee you, repeatedly pressing two buttons that you know bugging out cc break is not the definition of good play...

I smell someone`s afraid he`s not as good of a player he might think he is and is afraid of losing his only way of getting kills.

Understood.

Try a serious pvp game. Here`s a hanky.

Maybe we should compare PVP ranks? Or would that invalidate your "crappy players win more while good ones are supposed to help me beat them" philosophy? Cuz on the note of Starcraft, that crap doesn't fly there either. Do you get all bent like this when you get cannon rushed too?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Tintinabula

Like I said, I get perma stunned a handful of times. Maybe learn to use Charging maneuver..I use it a lot.

Halrloprillalar

It is much worse when I am holding block, actually hitting an instant ability but instead I am just moonwalking in place because 2-3 people happened to hit their invasion on me at once. Then I can't cast and die.

Agrippa_Invisus

Just have Unstoppable and Purge on the same bar.

Invasion bounces off you and then you just purge the Talons away from yourself (and anyone else nearby), ridding the DoT it puts on you in the process. Resto staff and/or Soul Strike the DK to get around Wings as well.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

There seem to be a lot of weird situations where you can't break out of a CC, not limited to charge/talons. Having an "immobility" while having a "stun/knockdown" seems to be a major cause of inability to break CC. It comes from any combination of being immobilized and being stunned/knocked down simultaneously.

One of these patches broke it cuz I know it wasn't always doing this, and of course most people who know about and have the skills available it are using the cc bug combo to their advantage.. and of course will say its not a bug "counter it".

Mojomonkeyman

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Just have Unstoppable and Purge on the same bar.

Invasion bounces off you and then you just purge the Talons away from yourself (and anyone else nearby), ridding the DoT it puts on you in the process. Resto staff and/or Soul Strike the DK to get around Wings as well.

Or they just fix the unbreakable cc and people can break out of it?!

Agrippa_Invisus

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

show previous quotes

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Just have Unstoppable and Purge on the same bar.

Invasion bounces off you and then you just purge the Talons away from yourself (and anyone else nearby), ridding the DoT it puts on you in the process. Resto staff and/or Soul Strike the DK to get around Wings as well.

Or they just fix the unbreakable cc and people can break out of it?!

Of course they should fix it.

Until then, there's the solution.

Halrloprillalar

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Just have Unstoppable and Purge on the same bar.

Invasion bounces off you and then you just purge the Talons away from yourself (and anyone else nearby), ridding the DoT it puts on you in the process. Resto staff and/or Soul Strike the DK to get around Wings as well.

tickling a DK until they fall over from laughter and die...

naturn

Even if the dk attackers using this bug to immobilize me were killed and I somehow survived,at times I have actually had to reboot the game so I could move or I was stuck and couldn't move from the spot at all. This is clearly not something the designers intended. BTW even /reloadui didn't help.

maxilaub17_ESO

Honfold wrote: »

So I have not seen much discussion of this on the forums or at least not enough of it. I am not sure if this is a bug or an intentional feature so any clarification would be great. Like many of you have experienced, the DK charge then talon combo creates a stun that you cannot break. You are forced to sit through the duration of the charge stun unable to break out of it. I have also experienced this with other CC combos like charge and crystal shards. So are some CCs just broken, is it a design feature, and has ZOS said anything about it?

THIS IS NOT A DK EXCLUSIVE BUG!

I'm a DK and have experienced this "unbreakable stun" from any class who can do a sword and shield charge (invasion) with a root. I hate it as much as you and hope it is a bug that will be fixed soon. Like you it doesn't happen to me every time, but even having a near full stamina bar I can't break the stun/root lock that occasionally happens.

Just to be clear the mechanics should be that you first need to break the stun, then if enough stamina left, roll out of the root; however what happens is you can't break the stun, all abilities are unusable including the right-hold, left click combo that normally breaks a stun. You just sit there eating damage mashing buttons that do nothing.

Xsorus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnvKToIPj7M&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Its not just Knockdown + Root

In this video i get attacked by multiple people, but that's not a problem..I'm spamming Stun Break the entire time... and nothing happens...

Honfold

It seems that a lot of people are sensitive about the specific mention of DK abilities in this post. Just to clarify I did mention this happens with other CCs, however as @Mojomonkeyman mentioned above the reason that I have specifically mentioned DKs is that by far this bug occurs more often with the charge/talon combo. This is likely the case because just the single player is able to pull it off with out any assistance or a windup. Not saying that it is intentional, just that Talons and charge are not really a rare sight in Cyrodiil and this is happening way too much. Being a Night Blade I can actually get out of it if I break stun then use cloak to break out of talons, but cloak is bugged to hell so this usually just burns my magic before I die.

Tintinabula

Honfold wrote: »

It seems that a lot of people are sensitive about the specific mention of DK abilities in this post. Just to clarify I did mention this happens with other CCs, however as @Mojomonkeyman mentioned above the reason that I have specifically mentioned DKs is that by far this bug occurs more often with the charge/talon combo. This is likely the case because just the single player is able to pull it off with out any assistance or a windup. Not saying that it is intentional, just that Talons and charge are not really a rare sight in Cyrodiil and this is happening way too much. Being a Night Blade I can actually get out of it if I break stun then use cloak to break out of talons, but cloak is bugged to hell so this usually just burns my magic before I die.

I disagree I never get this bug with DKs I always get it with NBs .

Lowbei

i have no trouble escaping dks. have better positioning.

apostate9

SilentThunder wrote: »

first off LOL at Starcraft being a "serious" pvp game.

I have to agree that its seriously annoying that the combination of knockdown + any other CC is unbreakable. Its a bug and needs to be fixed. Any one who claims that the exploitation of a bug has any relation to actual skill is just wrong.

Last off, LOL at you not knowing Starcraft is foremost among serious PVP games. It is the modern Chess, and often considered an "eSport". Koreans watch it like the SuperBowl. ESO...not so much. The fact that you don't know this just means I can stop talking to you, you've made my point better than I could hope to.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ESportsTV

Check that out. Of course, WoW and ESO aren't on there.

apostate9

naturn wrote: »

Even if the dk attackers using this bug to immobilize me were killed and I somehow survived,at times I have actually had to reboot the game so I could move or I was stuck and couldn't move from the spot at all. This is clearly not something the designers intended. BTW even /reloadui didn't help.

You realize invasion is not the only stun skill that causes this bug...right?

Tintinabula

yea actually tonight I had a Templar do it to me with javelin and some other spear crap. I DO feel your pain but its not just a "garbage DK" trick

Mojomonkeyman

apostate9 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

It's broken. I love when the same garbage DK does this to me repeatedly like its the only two skills they have on their bar.. So bad.. So bad..

In other words, you hate getting roflstomped because you suck at PVP. You wish opponents would show how elite they are, and use a broader spectrum of inefficient skill combos, thus giving you more time to spam your broken crystal shards or whatnot. So to recap, *garbage players* are the ones that crush you repeatedly like an insect, and *good* player are the ones who accommodate you, and die.

Understood.

Try an easier game. Here's a hanky.

Uhm, he was talking about players mainly using two skills that, in combination, reportedly cause cc break to not work. Sorry, that it is your class that can reproduce this abuse with 100% certainty, but your analysis is pretty much crap.

According to your logic, any exploit would be legit and "good", just because it is efficient?

I played serious PvP games for 10 years (starcraft) and I can guarantee you, repeatedly pressing two buttons that you know bugging out cc break is not the definition of good play...

I smell someone`s afraid he`s not as good of a player he might think he is and is afraid of losing his only way of getting kills.

Understood.

Try a serious pvp game. Here`s a hanky.

Maybe we should compare PVP ranks? Or would that invalidate your "crappy players win more while good ones are supposed to help me beat them" philosophy? Cuz on the note of Starcraft, that crap doesn't fly there either. Do you get all bent like this when you get cannon rushed too?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Nope, I just tend to scout my base. Even if I recognize late (i.e. when scouting my opponents base), there`s plenty of ways to deal with it/counter it.

Well, yeah and from time to time i die to cheese, it just happens. Nobody`s perfect. But that`s not due to broken mechanics but to me failing/reacting late...

Krentar_RNX

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnvKToIPj7M&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Its not just Knockdown + Root

In this video i get attacked by multiple people, but that's not a problem..I'm spamming Stun Break the entire time... and nothing happens...

Also have happened to me but with unbreakable disorients while getting massacred. There are still a large amount of bugged abilities adding extra cc effects that shouldnt.

Venom Arrow too applies "set off balance" even if you dont use casting abilities. (not sure in which exact situation)

Jarnhand

As far as I have seen reported here, the bug happens when people stack different types of CC on a target, then the game engine goes bonkers and you cannot break CC.
This can of course be exploited, so I guess we will be seeing a lot more of this, until Zenimax maybe fixes this like 2 months later...

david.haypreub18_ESO

--"•Immunity granted by Break Free and the immunity given to you after you’re hit by a crowd control ability now provide immunity to all types of crowd control."

This is from 1.3 notes on the PTS. Will this fix the bug?

Morticielle

Honfold wrote: »

So I have not seen much discussion of this on the forums or at least not enough of it.

There have been at least two different threads in which this issue was discussed. Zenimax has to be aware of this issue for quite some time now and is ignoring it like many other issues.

It is actually not alone the combination of Invasion + Dark Talons, some other combinations of CCs often have the same effect, so they cannot be broken.

Rylana

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

--"•Immunity granted by Break Free and the immunity given to you after you’re hit by a crowd control ability now provide immunity to all types of crowd control."

This is from 1.3 notes on the PTS. Will this fix the bug?

If it functions exactly as it is worded, yes.

Halrloprillalar

Rylana wrote: »

show previous quotes

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

--"•Immunity granted by Break Free and the immunity given to you after you’re hit by a crowd control ability now provide immunity to all types of crowd control."

This is from 1.3 notes on the PTS. Will this fix the bug?

If it functions exactly as it is worded, yes.

lol when is that ever the case with ZOS