Veteran System Changes Preview

lerial32

All I have to say is THANK YOU a million times over. I appreciate so much that you are listening to what the community is saying. I look forward to experiencing the changes. I have hope that I will reach VR12 now. Yay!

Nazon_Katts

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Easier with more XP. What a shame.

I definitely won't be grouping with these "new" Vets anytime soon.

Can the "original" Vets get some sort of Title?

Actually XP gain is going down for the Vet Zones, not up.

"vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote:
Are there any plans to change the amount of veteran experience needed to level? This really needs to come down quite a bit if the veterans are going to be as easy a 1-50. Talk about boredom.

ZOS_JessicaFolson Wrote:
We do have some changes planned to address that, yes. We'll be going into more detail about them in the July Road Ahead letter, and the QuakeCon panel."

Unless I misread that... I guess we'll see for sure then the "Road Ahead" comes out.

The amount needed should be toned down. Not the gain. And it seems that is what they are planning to do.

Audigy

I think ZO is walking a very dangerous path now with the changes to the VR difficulty.

In my opinion content past max level should be significant more challenging than the content before that. That's why its the max level content after all, it is supposed to keep you busy for months and not a day or two.
To me there is no real point in doing the VR content if its as easy as the level content and you become bored doing it like at WOW with the daily quest content at max level.

I honestly think removing group elements from an MMO is never a good idea in general, especially if you replace that group element in the open world with pointless dungeon grinding like Blizzard did and obviously ZO wants to do as well.

Sad news, again a vocal minority had a huge impact on an MMO.

someuser

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom, The issue is not that people don't want to group and form social bonds. Please understand that there has been a lot of feedback on these forums to the contrary. The issue is the way you implemented this vision simply was not fun; it did not provide a rewarding experience .

I have been a huge supporter of this game and will continue to support this game. However, while balancing vet content is good, please don't loose sight of the bigger picture. Players want to have meaningful interactions with one another and we want reasons to group. That does not necessarily mean we want the devs to simply take the difficulty slider bar and push it to one end of the spectrum to force people to group. The goal should be to create situations and environments where players want to group.

Thank you for taking the time to consider your customer's feedback

sincerely
someuser

Darzil

So, is this bringing VR5 Realm content, say, down to VR5 Cyrodiil level? If so that sounds reasonable.

I'm surprised to hear it's designed to promote grouping, given the monsters in solo veteran quests were buffed at the same level as others in the zone. Plus of course, as we don't yet have the improvements for being able to group with others who are at different stages of a quest, grouping doesn't really work well in ESO yet.

Lord_Draevan

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

The amount needed should be toned down. Not the gain. And it seems that is what they are planning to do.

Ah, so it'd be changed to, say, 50,000 XP to get from Vet 1 to Vet 2 instead of 100,000?
Or would it be that quests and mobs provide more XP?

phreatophile

Audigy wrote: »

I think ZO is walking a very dangerous path now with the changes to the VR difficulty.
[snip]
Sad news, again a vocal minority had a huge impact on an MMO.

Rather than the ever vocal "learn to play" minority, which based on what i quoted, I assume you are a part of; I think it was more likely a vast silent majority: the players one would expect to see in VR zones but simply aren't there that motivated this change. Simple triage...stop the bleeding.

ShedsHisTail

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Easier with more XP. What a shame.

I definitely won't be grouping with these "new" Vets anytime soon.

Can the "original" Vets get some sort of Title?

"Since you guys haven't actually made any significant changes I can play through, I'm just gonna go ahead and over-react now. Is that cool?"

The_Sadist

As a veteran rank 8 (almost 9) grinding through quests in my first enemy faction (last zone!) I think this is nerf is a little uncalled for. The content IS harder but that simply means I die more and can't face roll any and all content I come across. I'm told the last faction (5-10) is extremely hard for a rank 5, but I suppose I spent a bit too much time grinding for professions. I'm hoping the middle ground is truly middle. This is an MMORPG, the fact people are complaining about how hard content is and refuse to group up because of 'immersion' and other such nonsense is ridiculous. Craglorn aside there is literally only 2 reasons to group up, public dungeons (which I'll be able to solo it sounds in the future) and instanced dungeons. Dolmens and World Bosses were pretty manageable from 1-50.. nerfing veteran ranked ones may make them equally as laughable. A friend and I have been grinding content together and between the two of us and everything is relatively easy.. and that's just with 1 other person! If people weren't so ochlophobic they'd find a person as soon as they enter a veteran rank zone and grind / quest with said person.

All in all it's a fine line, make it too easy and people will be rank 12 waiting for content before the week is out, probably complaining about how easy veteran rank content is and how there's no content out there, but change it radically and you'll see a lot of people leave. I can't really complain, I have 4 alts to level! Ultimately it should be interesting if done correctly.

This is NOT Skyrim 2.0. It needed to be said.

shawnpreub18_ESO1

It’s difficult to imagine people really grouping for the VR zones given the quest system isn’t at all group friendly.

If you simply add another / more options for leveling from VR1 forward, that would work just as well, if not better.

Also you really need to revisit your group finder tool. It’s simply not good enough yet.

Darzil

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Easier with more XP. What a shame.

I definitely won't be grouping with these "new" Vets anytime soon.

Can the "original" Vets get some sort of Title?

Well, there is no way to tell now the difference between people who got their VR rank chain killing dungeon bosses in groups rather than doing the content. I know many of the people I meet doing the quests are already VR12, and often need a lot of help.

Nazon_Katts

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

The amount needed should be toned down. Not the gain. And it seems that is what they are planning to do.

Ah, so it'd be changed to, say, 50,000 XP to get from Vet 1 to Vet 2 instead of 100,000?
Or would it be that quests and mobs provide more XP?

Dunno, probably one or the other, but the answer was rather vague, just that there would happen something in this regard.

lerial32

The_Sadist wrote: »

This is an MMORPG, the fact people are complaining about how hard content is and refuse to group up because of 'immersion' and other such nonsense is ridiculous.

I am only speaking for myself...I don't "refuse" to group.....I can't find groups that want to do the 4 man quests in Craglorn....everyone just wants to grind. For me, it isn't about immersion, it is about being able to actually get to experience the content without having to always depend on other people.

Dayv

Very glad to hear of these changes. I'll see how they go and hopefully I'll be able to persuade friends to come back.

Targanwolf

Thanks for the update.
I am a SOLO player.....I appreciate the effort to make solo play possible and not try(I just won't group) to force grouping on me.

Lord_Draevan

lerial32 wrote: »

I am only speaking for myself...I don't "refuse" to group.....I can't find groups that want to do the 4 man quests in Craglorn....everyone just wants to grind. For me, it isn't about immersion, it is about being able to actually get to experience the content without having to always depend on other people.

Yeah, Craglorn is impossible to find a group unless it's for grind or Trials... I still have a bunch of quests I haven't completed since Craglorn launched. Sitting in my journal. Mocking me. Judging me

spliffmaster2b16_ESO

To be honest I liked the level of difficulty that it had so far. The only problem I had while leveling solo through veteran content was the combat unresponsiveness.

Audigy

phreatophile wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I think ZO is walking a very dangerous path now with the changes to the VR difficulty.
[snip]
Sad news, again a vocal minority had a huge impact on an MMO.

Rather than the ever vocal "learn to play" minority, which based on what i quoted, I assume you are a part of; I think it was more likely a vast silent majority: the players one would expect to see in VR zones but simply aren't there that motivated this change. Simple triage...stop the bleeding.

You can drop your insults towards me as much as you want, it wont change the fact that I am right.

Its not about learn to play, its about content that we now lose because of people that want to rush to VR 12. You need to realize that there is nothing past VR 12 and nothing has been announced yet to change that.

The reason why people are not at VR zones is simply put their time. I don't know what type of life you have, but most people have a job, girlfriend, boyfriend or a whole family. These people simply put are not yet at the VR zones or have just started.

By dumping down the VR content the long levity of the game will be lowered as there is nothing past VR 12. The Story ends there and all you have is a boring item grind in trials and dungeons.

ZO is walking a very dangerous path with the removal of VR content and the danger is huge that they remove any type of solo player or small group content in future just like Blizzard did.

I don't know about you, but I enjoy playing with a friend or two. I enjoy being a healer or tank in a group while I quest. All this will be gone when content is dumped down so much that you can roll with your butt over the keyboard and hit the "I win teddy".

Do you honestly think that this is what an ES player wants? An item hunt in a never ending rotation of dungeons and trials while every story element is a walk in the park until its fully removed from the game?

I am shocked how less people learned from WOW. If you want to see why the change is bad, WOW is the perfect example for it.

Tup3x

I don't really get the veteran content thing at all. Why shouldn't I just make new character instead? It's story wise pretty ridiculous idea too - fight against your own faction in some cases.

Shunravi

Well, this may make me less proud of my 'tamriel hero' achievement, and as much as i like the difficulty, i suppose this is good for those who don't. honestly i have mixed feelings about this. I want to see more people in the vet zones, to be sure, but dumbing stuff down does not make me feel too good about it. idk.. the challenge was like a breath of fresh air compared to how easy the content was getting. i finally had to actually care about what i was doing vs just pressing a few buttons to see what happens.
i honestly wish there was more i could say... maybe make the sabotage option people are asking for, then return cadwell's to its current state? or have a special something for those of us who have done it at this difficulty? idk, something.

Dissentinel

I was looking forward to the challenge. Hopefully they won't make it too much easier.

Akhratos

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Easier with more XP. What a shame.

I definitely won't be grouping with these "new" Vets anytime soon.

Can the "original" Vets get some sort of Title?

You are not that veteran if you ignore the buff to VR came with CRAGLORN. Pre Craglorn vets already completed it easier than post-Craglorm veterans.

See how much is worth your fake veteran elitism already?.

The_Sadist

lerial32 wrote: »

I am only speaking for myself...I don't "refuse" to group.....I can't find groups that want to do the 4 man quests in Craglorn....everyone just wants to grind. For me, it isn't about immersion, it is about being able to actually get to experience the content without having to always depend on other people.

And that will probably be the case when I'm ready for Craglorn due to the dwindling player base (lack of endgame issues and whatnot) paired with the fact I'm not part of an overly active guild of my faction. Apparently joining the right guild is key in this sort of situation. The issue is some content should require an individual to be dependent on other players, thus MMORPG. Otherwise it would be solo outside of a few instances and PvP which, in my opinion, isn't a MMORPG.

So while I can understand the frustration of finding 3 people for a quest (which I'll probably experience first hand in a few weeks), I also think making content easy mode isn't the answer. If veteran rank 1-10 is made easier you'll see a lot more players in Craglorn which may mean more people to quest with, so it has the potential to be a decent change if done correctly.

tengri

Sounds... good. In theory.
Well, we will see how it actually plays out of course...

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE test changes more before you put it on live... fixing one thing and breaking 5 others in the process is simply not acceptable.
For example quests that I did complete just fine with one char are now a month later broken for another char... simply ridiculous.

Droric

What happened to the days where games were so hard you had to learn to control your emotions before you could earn the skills necessary to read the "Thanks for playing, now do it again on HARD MODE," screens? (rhetorical question)

I personally like the feeling I get when I'm excelling in an area that gives others the dreaded, "Nerd R-R-R-Rage." It reminds me that I earned that skill.

Okay, my soap box just broke. I'm done. Keep up the good fight, Zen. There will always be haters.

rayeab16_ESO

for all the people complaining about 'nerfed' difficulty, why not just add a toggle?

when you get the quests (silver and gold i mean) have the guy ask a question about how hard do you want it to be?
if you answer that you thought the path you took to get here, was hard and long, it set you to the new lower difficulty.
however, if you say 'it was a breeze. have you got anything harder?' he set you back to the difficulty it is now....

(course, for me personaly, i would like a 3rd option when i reply....actualy, i have a sister in each aliance, can i please just go learn from them?' and then i can go do something less boaring than going through all the self same questlines i just did with my alts...)

Nova Sky

Justiciar wrote: »

Can we get an achievement for those that completed it pre Nerf?

Well, if we're going to start handing out achievements like candy, then I imagine a lot of us are going to want one for having to put up with varying degrees of whininess on the forums — from the diehards to the casuals to everyone in-between.

The achievement could be called "Forum Survivor" and worth 15 points.

Locnaar

I, for one am just glad to have some communication on the forums . It is restoring my faith that someone, anyone is trying to communicate with the common players who do not always speak up on the forum pages.
Thank-you @Zos_JessicaFolsom for letting us know that we are being heard

SteveRuimy

let's go casual yay

RazielSR

I'm starting to believe again.

Anyway the lack of soul in the content will be the same I guess. I mean, it will continue being an alternate reality, isnt it? Nobody will know who are you, dolmens still appearing, daedras...like if you never had defeated Molag Bal.

But, at least, you are gonna make VR more interesting.


I have to say, THANK YOU for listening.