Money Back Request.

Tandor

People bought the game initially, and if they're still here then they've had good value from that purchase. The subscription is optional and anyone who feels he/she isn't getting ongoing value doesn't have to keep paying it.

Demands for money refunds aren't the accepted thing, they're just today's forum replacement for yesterday's demands for class action lawsuits.

They never materialised either.

Tandor

Hoamaii wrote: »

I bought lots of games that I did not like and simply stopped playing them. But I never before felt like I had bought an unfinished game.

This must be your first MMO, then. Most of the MMOs of the last 15 or so years have had a mix at launch of incomplete content, unbalanced classes (especially in PvP because no-one likes dying and it's always the developers' fault), lack of housing, auctions and other core features, inadequately optimised server code, frequent maintenance downtime, broken quests, and the other myriad things people complain about with this game, not to mention the early gold seller spam (which seems to have disappeared now, haven't seen any in-game announcements or mails for weeks now, but then I gather they've all gone to that other new game which we were told was going to be perfect but where many of the same complaints are also being made).

I'm not defending Zenimax, just pointing out that pretty well every other MMO has had its own share of problems at launch, and very probably always will, so the only real solution for those who don't like it is not to play any MMO until say 6 months after launch by which time it will have generally settled down.

Endolith

Regardless of what you think of a refund request, posting a request for a refund in the forums is moronic. Those people are trolling.

Night_Watch

I just know that it is likely that I will be 'flamed' for what I am about to write but I ask that anyone reading should read the whole thing and not just 'cherry pick' to make an argument!

There are many different countries in our world and they all have differing approaches to 'consumer rights'. Indeed, there can be different approaches to such rights within regions of a country.

A common believe in the EU and UK is that everything a person buys is covered by the exact same 'consumer rights' legislation. While there are common factors to all types of purchase and somewhat common rights, not everything purchased is covered by every 'consumer right'. Common rights for the consumer include that the product or service bought is;

• of satisfactory quality,
• fit for purpose, and
• meets any description.

However, there can be other factors that affect the rights of the consumer with regard to specific purchases an example with regard to 'Digital Content' follows;

'If the digital content didn’t meet these quality rights, you would be entitled to a repair or a replacement of the digital content where practical, or failing that (that is, if the repair or replacement would take an unreasonable amount of time or cannot be done without significantly inconveniencing you), you would be entitled to some money back. You would only be entitled to return the faulty digital content for an immediate refund if the digital content was in a physical item (eg it is on a disk or embedded in goods such as a digital camera).

Other digital content rights would allow the trader to update the digital content within the terms of the contract, entitle you to a refund if the trader sold you the digital content without having the right to do so, and entitle you to a repair (if possible) or limited compensation if the trader fails to use reasonable care and skill to prevent the digital content (whether free or paid for) from damaging your device or other digital content'

- http://discuss.bis.gov.uk/consumerrightsbill/what-are-my-rights-under-the-draft-bill-when-buying-digital-content/#1

The linked page is where I quote from and has interesting links relating to UK consumer rights.

It should be added that, generally speaking, no matter what contract that a consumer signs up to, that contract cannot supersede UK law - no matter what the 'seller' argues. That is not to say that the contract or parts therein cannot be legally binding (please read the whole thing before commenting - I'm sure there are exceptions!).

Now then! With all that opinion, quoted fact and whatnot out of the way we have ESO to talk about.

Is ESO of satisfactory quality? This one can be argued about and there may well be more than one answer. I do not think that there is an easy yes or no in the case of ESO.

Is ESO fit for purpose? Though I have had first hand experience of some of the faults of issues of ESO, I generally play the game fine (and have had good CS). Others have reported massive game breaking experiences though. Again, this one could be argued over.

Does ESO meet description? I suppose this depends on the gamers personal experiences. It would depend on how much of the description a player has read, how much the player had played and wether the two fit or not. For me, the game is working as it should (mostly) as described. Then again! I do not play any PVP, have no avatar over level 30 (ish) and as yet have not encountered many of the problems other peopl have.

I bought ESO with limited knowledge of the product and limited expectations, I experienced a couple of problems that got sorted fairly and quickly by CS and I have made the choice to continue my subscription based on my experiences with ESO to date. I cannot fairly ask for a refund.

Others bought the game and have had (it would seem) no end of problems. Should they get a refund? Maybe, maybe not! Each 'case' should be looked at individually and treated fairly.

Who would continue to pay a subscription if they truly thought the game [ESO] or service recieved was truly so bad though?

Some folk paid upfront for long subscriptions and it would not seem fair for them not to get a refund for time they are not going to play due to closing their account. I'm sure there is a whole legal and moral minefield in such cases.

For me, it is a case of pay monthly until I feel that ESO is not worth my subscription.

I truly feel bad for those other gamers that are experiencing very real and bad problems with the game and can (maybe) see why they would want a refund. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that refunds will not be given in many cases.

Tannakaobi

I got my money back for 'A realm reborn' they didn't need to do that, but I asked and they did. The only reason I gave them was that I thought the game was poor. Had they not given me my money back, I wouldn't have been all that bothered to be honest and I didn't expect it, but I asked and they did.

One thing I can say is I am infinitely more likely to purchase another game from Square Enix as I consider them to have good customer service. It's just a shame that all there games are cack these days.

I haven't seen anything in ESO worthy of asking for my money back. The game punches well below expectations, but it's really not a bad game.
Some of the things people have stated are really bad though, like not being able to log on for weeks. I'd want my money back if that happened to me, but I have not had any problems like this.

Corew

The only game I've been sufficiently annoyed with to ask for a refund was GW2, I demanded a refund on the grounds of "fraudulent behavior" and got it

As for this game, I actually got a refund without asking for one.. I had to buy the game again and CS copied my chars over from the old account...

Cogo

JungleBoot wrote: »

There is one major difference I would like to point out to you. I have played games on a PC way before I played games on a console. But, I got over it pretty quick. Because when something is wrong with a game, the developer has no excuse. Every spec the developer needs is sitting in front of them in a specification document. They can't turn it around and blame it on my PC because it doesn't meet their requirements or uses hardware they didn't expect anyone to have.

I have to ask you to read my reply to you again.

I asked, why consoles was BETTER then PC for a MMOs.
Nothing else. Not regular games, not surfing the net, music and everything else you mentioned.

I understand that when reading, one can get the wrong impression, but there a limit when someone makes things up. This creates drama where it can be avoided, just by reading.

I stated in my reply, that the power of consoles is that your game works right away. No hassle.
As you say, Consoles are the same "pc", with the same platform.

However, all platforms have the same issues in games and any software. The software needs to be coded for that platform, just like Windows, Mac, Xbox, PS3, Linux, etc.

I did not say Consoles are worse then PC for MMOs.
I asked 2 questions to discuss this, not to say one or the other are "best".
I added 2 more questions, based on your reply.

Question 1:
Do consoles upgrade graphic drivers?

Question 2:
Can you "patch" a console game?


I fully understand that consoles are "better", for you . This is a personal view for everyone regarding anything.
To avoid any more misunderstandings, Consoles have the big feature, very much same to phones, to work instantly, easy for everyone, from 3 years old to 95. You press a button and the button shows in big text what it does. "Play Game". "Start movie X" (No idea why you stated that)

My statement regarding a PC might be better suited for MMOs, with mouse and keyboard, which Consoles also have. Is based on the fact that there are more choices of software and hardware for PC platforms, then for consoles.

This does not mean either are better or worse in general. Just who they suit the best for.

I can even say, that without my own interest in any phone or consoles.
Both consoles and Phones are the future and big market in IT.
How do I know this? I work in IT.

However, IF, Consoles can choose to use a windows platform, just like you have on a PC, then in regard to software for windows, they are the same.

I do not know, if consoles have, or can add a regular Windows 8, just like a PC.

Question 3:
3. Can consoles boot up a normal Windows OS?

Please do not mistake my questions, that consoles are built with the same technology as PC, but a different type of hardware, which I can not find any hardware upgrades too.

"New graphic card X" to upgrade your current Xbox. I have not seen that. I could have missed it?

Question 4.
When upgrading for example, a Xbox. Does that not mean, buying a new Xbox? Not just a part for your current?

Would someone mind to reply to my questions, cause I am curious. Again, nothing to do with what is "best". My questions are related to how MMOs would work on consoles in the longer term.

Edit: I removed a lot of junk text I wrote, which @mablung ,in his colorful way shown me how to do.

Worstluck

Only game I can recall that I got a refund for was Diablo 3. I had been a very long battle.net supporter and Blizzard had been good to me, however, Diablo 3 at the beginning was so horrible. I lived 25 miles from the server location and I consistently had ping over 400 the first few weeks. Only played the game 5 hours, called them, they gave me a refund no questions asked.

I wouldn't expect this from most companies though. Asking for refunds through the forums is pointless and not constructive. If people really wanted a refund they would call or email customer service, not announce it publicly.

Lunshea

Tashira wrote: »

The same can be said for purchasing a car. You buy it and sign the contract and agree to it. This does not mean that if you bought a car that had consistent problems that you would not take it back and ask for a refund, would you?

No, asking for a refund for ESO and similar games due to some lag and some bugs...is more like like buying an icecream at McDonalds, stuff it in your trunk and drive home only to find it has melted, then drive back and ask to get your money back.

LrdRahvin

Lunshea wrote: »

Tashira wrote: »

The same can be said for purchasing a car. You buy it and sign the contract and agree to it. This does not mean that if you bought a car that had consistent problems that you would not take it back and ask for a refund, would you?

No, asking for a refund for ESO and similar games due to some lag and some bugs...is just like like buying an icecream at McDonalds, stuff it in your trunk and drive home only to find it has melted, then drive back and ask to get your money back.

I'd never ask for a refund for melted ice cream mixed with oil and various other goop from the bottom of the trunk...it'd still be better than how this game is going :'(

jimfopao2

If you are buying a boxed game at a retail outlet then you are buying it based on a description and images provided by the developer or marketing company. If you purchase said product based on this provided information and then discover this information misrepresents the actual contents and/or state of the game then you will likely feel deceived.
If you buy almost any other item and discover that it differs markedly from the advertised product then you can usually make a case for a refund at the point of purchase.
This is why people want a refund. They paid for an advertised product and received ***.

Fairydragon3

Tashira wrote: »

Ok so....

Asking for your money back for a product is an ok thing to do. In fact we all purchased a product from zenmax. Just like going to the store and buying a copy of an operating system or other programs. You purchased the software and agreed to the TOS.

The same can be said for purchasing a car. You buy it and sign the contract and agree to it. This does not mean that if you bought a car that had consistent problems that you would not take it back and ask for a refund, would you?

Why is buying software different? It isn't. How many companies buy software today and if it doesn't work they return the product to the manufacturer for a refund. This happens daily in the real world.

Not quite following how you can say asking for a refund is not correct........

That's because software cant work on everything. Many people will purchase items that they don't really know about. I know I've bought my share of games that I never was able to get working on my computer because I didn't know what I was doing at the time, or because my computer plain wasn't good enough.

The TOS exists to ensure that no one is guaranteed a refund based on the nature of this game. The fact that it is a PC MMO rpg that requires constant development and monitoring means they can go willy nilly on refunds. Their TOS states that they don't have to even give them out. But there is still a process for them, for certain situations. Going back to the movie analogy the theater doesn't have to give you your money back, because it is in their business terms. However if their is something wrong with the projector, or something of that nature, they will still refund because they value your patronage.

Basically they give refunds to people who deserve it, but if you've been in game and have played a good bit, despite what you are into, you are being given what you paid for, becasue although you paid for the game initially, due to the nature of the game, a subscription is require witch is the service of access to the servers, customer support, and fixing issues.

Their has to be rules to protect the company from those that just feel entitled, but are not deserving

SystemiK

Lol, you would probably have a better chance getting an ESO refund by going outside and demanding it from your neighbors than screaming about it on this forum. But, people do love to hear the sound of their own discontent around here...that will never change.

GreySix

Lunshea wrote: »

Tashira wrote: »

The same can be said for purchasing a car. You buy it and sign the contract and agree to it. This does not mean that if you bought a car that had consistent problems that you would not take it back and ask for a refund, would you?

No, asking for a refund for ESO and similar games due to some lag and some bugs...is more like like buying an icecream at McDonalds, stuff it in your trunk and drive home only to find it has melted, then drive back and ask to get your money back.

Think the best analogy would be a similar subscription service, to say something like HBO. If HBO showed nothing but 70s crap movies after advertising the latest and greatest movies most recently out of theaters, a large number of folks would likely unsubscribe and request refunds.

Fairydragon3

GreySix wrote: »

Lunshea wrote: »

Tashira wrote: »

The same can be said for purchasing a car. You buy it and sign the contract and agree to it. This does not mean that if you bought a car that had consistent problems that you would not take it back and ask for a refund, would you?

No, asking for a refund for ESO and similar games due to some lag and some bugs...is more like like buying an icecream at McDonalds, stuff it in your trunk and drive home only to find it has melted, then drive back and ask to get your money back.

Think the best analogy would be a similar subscription service, to say something like HBO. If HBO showed nothing but 70s crap movies after advertising the latest and greatest movies most recently out of theaters, a large number of folks would likely unsubscribe and request refunds.

...it's good in a sense this is an example of what is happening here in eso, except those people wouldn't get refunds. HBO movies always fluctuate (much like the state of ESO) and they too have technical problems. Their TOS also protects them from people who don't understand that HBO pays for the right to show those movies, and they sometimes break, and must do repairs thus, leaving people out of the entertainment, but this is all one service provided by HBO. Once purchased, it is up to the consumer if they like the way they handle things, and it is up to the customer to rather to continue to support HBO, or move on to netflix, or another company that MIGHT perform better.

Or we could also compare this to Internet Service providers

Cogo

jimfopao2 wrote: »

If you are buying a boxed game at a retail outlet then you are buying it based on a description and images provided by the developer or marketing company. If you purchase said product based on this provided information and then discover this information misrepresents the actual contents and/or state of the game then you will likely feel deceived.
If you buy almost any other item and discover that it differs markedly from the advertised product then you can usually make a case for a refund at the point of purchase.
This is why people want a refund. They paid for an advertised product and received ***.

In the case of almost any product, this is true.

MMOs are different because of their nature.

You are correct, that a refund is valid (depending on contract and understanding of the product) if the Companies description, features and images are not met.

In ESOs case, I have not seen any valid reason for a refund. NOT YET!
Zenimax are delivering their service as stated, NOT what people THINK it is.

MMOs are different then other games. BUT, the lag problem in Cyro for example, IS a service that is not working currently, but as you see, they are working to fix it. This is normal in MMOs. NOT INSTANT FIX! But in some sort of time in the MMO world. So far, the company still have time to fix this. Not by much.....but soon. Or YES, they break THIS feature as promised.

This is ONE feature that's needs working on.
There are many features that does work, and they keep deliver service as promised on the "pack".

I side note, there are players who complain when they do deliver a service they promised, that works. Like the added items to the world you can pick up.
Delivered as promised. And people complain! ??????????

Still today, with players who do like ESO and want it to work, still are not aware of the service promised, which is delivered, that included in your subscription, you get every 4-6 weeks, new content/something, added. You do not need to pay for expansions, just the subscription.

This is the service we bought, as stated in black and white. Which they deliver.

Go back to may and early June. You will see TONS of players who did not read anything on the product description, and only based the game on their own assumption, wrong information from friends or the serious lack of proper reviews. Short but not 100% accurate, IF ESO was not:
1. WoW 2
2. Skyrim online
3. Everything working and included at start. (This is a MMO, not a normal game.)
4. A free game for 30 days. Might been the only thing they read on the pack.
5. Their own view what ESO should be

Then they "discovered" that ESO was not for them.

I am sorry! But in these cases, the only one to blame is the one buying the product.

Off topic
On a side note, the big attention ESO have got, even more negative then positive, MIGHT lead to a lesson for some players to find out what they are buying. It doesn't matter if ESO is a success or not (I HOPE SO MUCH THEY FIX IT SO IT IS!!!!), but the sheer press, numbers of players who came to a new type of MMO, might:
Start to think again, before they buy their next game.

Even if I loathe Wildstar and for my life can not understand anyone below teenagers liking that game. Wildstar have done the same as ESO. Educated people into looking what they are buying. Or not....if someone wants to keep throwing away their money.

I am concerned about the past 5-6-7 years trend, that demands more and more to be what they want, instantly and think the companies have some sort of mind reading capability. I do not blame people too much for this, but our AWESOME advancement in technology. We DO get a lot of what we want, instandly, services like facebook, marketing software on computers, etc, is able to put you in a category where you get the info you want.

Go to most online selling sites. Where you been before and bought something, you get suggestions what would be interesting to you. And more then less....its correct! This is advancement of technology....not magic ;-)


Today, you can be a person who never have used a computer before, and just like learning to drive a car....it doesn't take long before you can use it.

10 years ago, it wasn't as easy. 20 years ago, you needed to have a lot of knowledge OR being a kid who is interested. This is true today as well.
The "best" players, or those who understands the fastest, is not us "experienced" users. Its kids and teenagers. Sorry...sad but true.

Progression is GREAT! But I wonder....is it starting to take away peoples own ability to DO something?

Example: To get a group in ESO, some people ONLY use the group finder.

The idea to ask others, use chat channels, wait a bit, use guild and friend list to ask, seams to not even be an option.....or even something they consider?

Dont have a guild or any friends in game? I am sorry, but that's life.
Can't blame the game for that. Any game.

Mablung

Cogo wrote: »

TOO MANY WORDS

Is this a technique to just farm LOLs?

JungleBoot

Question 1:
Do consoles upgrade graphic drivers?

I think you intuitively know the answer to this question yourself. So, I will answer in this way. What drives the need for a manufacturer to upgrade graphic drivers? Ever so often the PS3 received software updates to improve general stability. What was actually "patched" is never really stated.

Question 2:
Can you "patch" a console game?

This is debatable. Some games run directly off disc and don't require any kind of install. However, many games receive some sort of patch since there always appears to be something installed to the console drive. Skyrim, for example, was installed to the drive. Bethesda put out more than one patch for the system and it's still a heaping pile. I believe this is a direct result of being ported to PS3 and not being directly designed for it.

Question 3:
Can consoles boot up a normal Windows OS?

Don't honestly know the answer to this. There are "geeks" out there that have tinkered with their PS3s and gotten them to do things beyond design. Different processor designs which generally means different instructions sets.

Question 4.
When upgrading for example, a Xbox. Does that not mean, buying a new Xbox? Not just a part for your current?

You can upgrade the hard drive by replacing the current one with a larger capacity drive. But, that is about it. You can't go out and buy the latest graphics card and throw it in there. That defeats the purpose of having a standardized box.

necrolineage

Chryos wrote: »

incandescent wrote: »

If you went to the cinema and the projector broke down, wouldn't you expect your money back?

Yeah, but this game is not broke though. Some people just are not happy with it. Every patch the game becomes more refined, and get's better.

Hmmm do you have downloaded the same patch than me ? For me the only thing who is more refined and better is the amound of bugs !

Volkodav

DeLindsay wrote: »

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

The problems wouldnt be so bad to live with if it wsnt for the rather large chunk of money you plop down just to DL the thing months before you even can play it. I paid $59.00 just for the privilege to put this game into my PC.I didnt get the free 5 days,and now I pay every month.With WoW you DO NOT pay an initial fee just to DL it.You just pay for each months usage.And dont flame me for mentioning WoW,but since we're talking about MMOs it fits. Asking for the initial fee back isnt wrong if you feel you have been played a fool.And many people feel this way,even if others of you do not.

You cannot PLAY WoW before paying for it except that lol F2P to level 20 with so many restrictions you might as well go play Warcraft instead. There is NEVER any promise or guarantee that anyone who spends money on a thing will enjoy said thing. So what that you can DL WoW before buying it and subbing to it to actually play, that's not a valid comparison. There is NO WAY you would be able to properly determine that you would like WoW with it's awful F2P option before paying for it, then deciding you want your money back.

Also WoW didn't have any form of F2P option for something like the first 6 years, nor did it offer digital DL until iirc WotlK. Once again invalidating your main argument.

Just an FIY,..I'm not one of those asking for their money back,so no,I wont go play WoW.Thing is,about WoW,..you dont have to pay $59.00 up front to play it.Only $15.00. So,if I dont want it anymore,I've only lost that small amount,not the larger one.There's kinda a big difference in pricing.
Also,I wasnt making an arguement,simply stating my own opinion.If I wanted to argue,I'd head over to my tumblr. :}

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Tashira wrote: »

Ok so....

Asking for your money back for a product is an ok thing to do. In fact we all purchased a product from zenmax. Just like going to the store and buying a copy of an operating system or other programs. You purchased the software and agreed to the TOS.

The same can be said for purchasing a car. You buy it and sign the contract and agree to it. This does not mean that if you bought a car that had consistent problems that you would not take it back and ask for a refund, would you?

Why is buying software different? It isn't. How many companies buy software today and if it doesn't work they return the product to the manufacturer for a refund. This happens daily in the real world.

Not quite following how you can say asking for a refund is not correct........

Why 3 months down the line are you asking for a refund. I could see it if you just bought the game and were still in the free time given to you...

Tabbycat

If you bought the product and took it home and tried to get it to work but it wouldn't, then I would think that maybe you might be able to get a refund on the product, at the manufacturer's discression.

But if you purchased a product and used it for several months and then decided you weren't satisfied with it... well isn't that sort of like buying a fancy dress for a special occasion, wearing it to the occasion, and then taking it back to the store to try to get a refund because you don't need it anymore?

Talrenos

You can get a refund, its actually quite easy unless you literally paid cash for a box and the monthly fees.

First, contact your BBB branch, file a complaint, request a full refund as a resolution. That *may* work, but usually not. Depends on how ZOS takes the BBB reports seriously or not.
Second, contact your credit card company, they actually *can* reverse the charges and take the money back from ZOS.

How do I know this? Simple, many years ago I did it to FunCom for the horrible launch of Anarchy Online. You remember, the one where for 2 weeks the game was literally broken where every mob in the game became invincible? Yeah, that game. I got my money back for the box I bought and the first months sub fee.

It can be done, but remember, if you do it, your never going to play ESO again, and you may regret that later when they get everything fixed up and your left out in the cold with only WoW to go back to...

Cogo

JungleBoot wrote: »

Question 1:
Do consoles upgrade graphic drivers?

I think you intuitively know the answer to this question yourself. So, I will answer in this way. What drives the need for a manufacturer to upgrade graphic drivers? Ever so often the PS3 received software updates to improve general stability. What was actually "patched" is never really stated.

Question 2:
Can you "patch" a console game?

This is debatable. Some games run directly off disc and don't require any kind of install. However, many games receive some sort of patch since there always appears to be something installed to the console drive. Skyrim, for example, was installed to the drive. Bethesda put out more than one patch for the system and it's still a heaping pile. I believe this is a direct result of being ported to PS3 and not being directly designed for it.

Question 3:
Can consoles boot up a normal Windows OS?

Don't honestly know the answer to this. There are "geeks" out there that have tinkered with their PS3s and gotten them to do things beyond design. Different processor designs which generally means different instructions sets.

Question 4.
When upgrading for example, a Xbox. Does that not mean, buying a new Xbox? Not just a part for your current?

You can upgrade the hard drive by replacing the current one with a larger capacity drive. But, that is about it. You can't go out and buy the latest graphics card and throw it in there. That defeats the purpose of having a standardized box.

Thanks! And I did not know that consoles gets updates. That answers the question. Curious that you don't get a patch list?

This removes my concerns if an MMO would be possible on Consoles.
HELL yeah it is!

I have 0 interest in consoles, BUT I know the market and IF your answers are true, then MMOs are very playable on consoles, and that means a HUGE security for ESO. That also means more money/resources to ESO which means more cool stuff in game and fun to play in the long term.

GREAT, really, thank you!
If I could, I'd give you 1000 awesome!

1.
You ask, why graphic manufacturers "needs" to upgrade graphic drivers?
Ok, I am not gonna be like most people and ignore this question.

The reason why graphic cards needs new drivers, is because new technology a graphic card can support, gets upgraded and released all the time.
The platform the graphic card uses, may not support X features a card can support right away, but will when they patch their platform. Just like Windows each week.

The drivers upgrades and "unlocks" features for graphics.

The new lightning graphics we got in ESO is a good example. If you have an old driver. You do not see this. New driver, and you see it. With the same card.
Note: These upgrades give you better graphics, but no cost to performance.


2.
If a console can do this, then my question about how a console would be able to run a MMO is answered. No problem!

Your client, local software on your drive, needs to get the patch, for the MMO to work for you. Why Skyrim did it, was to add content, features and fix bugs. PC users got a patch note. Again, do not console user get this list?

You answered it!
Thanks!

3.
Ok, so only "geeks" can get a real OS to work on a console?
Then a PC and console can not be compared regarding the ability of what software to use.

Consoles rely on their creator and I THINK, you can use a browser on a console?
Then you are limited to what browsers can do and what the creator adds.

On a PC, you decide among the millions of software what to use.

Again, this is not good or bad, just what is suits you the best.

4.
To change the HD driver I did know. Costly though!
Consoles are limited to only upgrade the HD. Alright.

Yes, you are correct. It is very stable and much less problems then PCs, because every Box have the same setup. Just like you say.

However, in order to play future games, you will need to buy a box.

PC, you can just upgrade a hardware. Much cheaper in the long term.
You choose yourself what hardware suits you on PC. And what price to pay.

ESO is a good example. Some players gets very high lag, on lowest settings.
Buying a new graphic card. Even a medium one: 90 Euros is a good "standard".
Then the same user all of a sudden gets A LOT better performance, less lag, and can use higher settings along with new graphic improvements like the light in last patch.

Thank you! I have asked several people about this. Now I know.

Consoles:
No problems. Automatic. Don't have to care one bit about anything else then if the game is sold to your console.

This is why I stated that consoles ARE the future.

PCs
PC lets you decide what to use your "system" for. And have millions of applications, software and uses that consoles can not get.

Maybe with more advanced technology the Boxes will be turned into what PC can do. I think by then, we all gonna use mobile phones as computers, and attach keyboard/mouse/monitor to them anyway ;-)

Again, thanks for proper answers.

Loco_Mofo

I think it became accepted when the industry decided it was okay to released unfinished products.

vanillexhope

jimfopao2 wrote: »

If you are buying a boxed game at a retail outlet then you are buying it based on a description and images provided by the developer or marketing company. If you purchase said product based on this provided information and then discover this information misrepresents the actual contents and/or state of the game then you will likely feel deceived.

The box actually says this under requirements: "Acceptance of End User License Agreement, Terms of Service, and Privacy Policy, and account registration using enclosed one-time use activation code, required to play. "

You can find the terms of service on the website, before you buy the game.

"ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or geographic locations, at any given time, or that it will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content, for any reason.

ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law, You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, User-Generated Content and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion."

I don't know why we are even discussing this.

RedMiniStapler

That ToS or EULA don't really apply to the residents of EU. I mean people can't just flat out and ask for refund just because they don't like the game, but if it isn't working as intended (too many bugs to the point you can't even play) then they are entitled for refund. The law will side with consumers rather than the company.

I think as someone mentioned, zenimax should grand free game times for those with log in issues. They should've received bug report from them and know exactly how many days they couldn't access.

Luckily I haven't run into major bugs *knock on wood*, but I hope zenimax will do something nice for other unfortunate players.

GrimlockSaves

yodased wrote: »

When did this become a thing? I've never in my life thought to request my money back from any sort of entertainment purchase.

Its like the people that go to a movie and demand their money back because they didn't like the movie.

I'm not trying to flame or call out anyone, I'm genuinely curious as to when this became the excepted response to not liking an entertainment purchase.

When I was growing up, if I bought a game from Toys-R-Us for my Atari or NES and didn't like it, welp you are screwed thanks for your cash.

I'm not saying its not feasible, nor expected; to be taken care of as a consumer if you feel you were cheated or mislead somehow, but blatantly asking for a refund of an entertainment purchase because you are unhappy is foreign to me.

Can someone explain this to me without involving my mother or my fanboi status?

Thanks.

What if you bought a box of cookies, then you opened the box and there was a dead, stinky, good for nothing rat inside. Welcome to ESO. Why they advertised cookies, I don't know. Now I ask, why would you NOT want your money back?

Tannakaobi

Cogo wrote: »

PC, you can just upgrade a hardware. Much cheaper in the long term.
You choose yourself what hardware suits you on PC. And what price to pay.

ESO is a good example. Some players gets very high lag, on lowest settings.
Buying a new graphic card. Even a medium one: 90 Euros is a good "standard".
Then the same user all of a sudden gets A LOT better performance, less lag, and can use higher settings along with new graphic improvements like the light in last patch.

Thank you! I have asked several people about this. Now I know.

Consoles:
No problems. Automatic. Don't have to care one bit about anything else then if the game is sold to your console.

This is why I stated that consoles ARE the future.

PCs
PC lets you decide what to use your "system" for. And have millions of applications, software and uses that consoles can not get.

Maybe with more advanced technology the Boxes will be turned into what PC can do. I think by then, we all gonna use mobile phones as computers, and attach keyboard/mouse/monitor to them anyway ;-)

Again, thanks for proper answers.

Consoles are getting better, in fact with the introduction the Xbox One and PS4, for the first time consoles are better than the 'average' PC. Sure PC's are more versatile but consoles work on a fitness for purpose basis. If all you are doing is playing games, watching TV and using social media then consoles are better.

You get more for your money with consoles too. PC's that can cope with the type of games that consoles are running cost much more, Twice the price, even if you build your own.

Both have pluses and minuses imo. Personally I like to have both. It will be interesting to see how mmo's take off on the 'next gen' consoles though.

Your probably not wrong with mobile phones being the future of gaming, imagine having a wireless head set, much like a pair of glasses connected to your mobile allowing you too have that 3d virtual world experience. We could soon be playing games like ESO where you will actually be in the world rather than looking at a screen. You wouldn't even need keyboard/mouse/monitors.

I kind of wish I was being born now and had all this to look forward to rather than a hip replacement and false teeth...

yodased

GrimlockSaves wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

When did this become a thing? I've never in my life thought to request my money back from any sort of entertainment purchase.

Its like the people that go to a movie and demand their money back because they didn't like the movie.

I'm not trying to flame or call out anyone, I'm genuinely curious as to when this became the excepted response to not liking an entertainment purchase.

When I was growing up, if I bought a game from Toys-R-Us for my Atari or NES and didn't like it, welp you are screwed thanks for your cash.

I'm not saying its not feasible, nor expected; to be taken care of as a consumer if you feel you were cheated or mislead somehow, but blatantly asking for a refund of an entertainment purchase because you are unhappy is foreign to me.

Can someone explain this to me without involving my mother or my fanboi status?

Thanks.

What if you bought a box of cookies, then you opened the box and there was a dead, stinky, good for nothing rat inside. Welcome to ESO. Why they advertised cookies, I don't know. Now I ask, why would you NOT want your money back?

They advertised a video game, I purchased a video game, I play a video game.

This is my main point that has been hit on a few times already in this thread.

If you have had a situation where the physical game would not play, you could not do anything, then sure a refund is probably appropriate for you.

If you have simply not enjoyed the playstyle, or you feel the quests were too buggy or grouping is bad or any of the other myriad "problems" people have with this game, then no you deserve nothing.

You purchased a game, you got a game. Just because that game isn't the game you thought/wanted/wished/hoped/prayed it would be, does not entitle you to a refund in my mind.