Money Back Request.

Cogo

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Consoles are getting better, in fact with the introduction the Xbox One and PS4, for the first time consoles are better than the 'average' PC. Sure PC's are more versatile but consoles work on a fitness for purpose basis. If all you are doing is playing games, watching TV and using social media then consoles are better.

You get more for your money with consoles too. PC's that can cope with the type of games that consoles are running cost much more, Twice the price, even if you build your own.

Yep, agree completely. I only have PC I think because I am so set in my ways. I want to build em piece by piece. And control every damn "service" that tries to use the OS.

Consoles are, like I said, and other person stated. No fuzz. Works. Grandma age 99 can use it.

I do think it going that way, but I still think PCs will be around even in 20 years, but not as much.

Funny, in 2007 the VP of Ericsson said that in 5 years, people will not need computers, but only use their phones. Even us in the IT business though...sure...good sales pitch.

Wasn't 5 years, but today, I see lots of people surfing, watching series and movies with high quality! On the bigger phones. Heck, some people spend more time on their phone then with people! Hehe.

Hardware and computer technology is going forward much faster then before.
We reached a few limits. CPU for example, needs a new technology to go past the 4Ghz burning up rate.

Check what 8 cores costs today. I sold similar technology to companies late 90ies and early 2000. Suns unix server machines. The big ones. Think a good 1 Mill euro was standard. That Megaserver had a similar power what a powerful PC on linux that supports 8 cores (cause Microsoft dont get their damn thing working yet). And the price for this Linux server. Max 10.000 Euros. And the BIG cost is DISCS and support.

Back to subject. I am very happy for the answered the guy gave. It means very safe future for ESO. The Consoles gonna be the "Security".

I just hope consoles players are ready for MMOs.

Requiemslove

yodased wrote: »

When did this become a thing? I've never in my life thought to request my money back from any sort of entertainment purchase.

Its like the people that go to a movie and demand their money back because they didn't like the movie.

I'm not trying to flame or call out anyone, I'm genuinely curious as to when this became the excepted response to not liking an entertainment purchase.

When I was growing up, if I bought a game from Toys-R-Us for my Atari or NES and didn't like it, welp you are screwed thanks for your cash.

I'm not saying its not feasible, nor expected; to be taken care of as a consumer if you feel you were cheated or mislead somehow, but blatantly asking for a refund of an entertainment purchase because you are unhappy is foreign to me.

Can someone explain this to me without involving my mother or my fanboi status?

Thanks.

To answer your question some gamers have a wrongful sense of entitlement. In fact @circilion‌ summed my point up nicely, even though @circilion‌ was taking the pi**. Some actually are EXACTLY like that, they are like "this is not what I wanted it to be like, you wont change this this this and this and make my gaming experience in the game completely tailored to ME, I want MY MONEY BACK" And when they don't get it, they whine, and *** and complain until the cows come home and then whine *** and complain some more. This is not to say some points they make are not valid, but others who make exactly the same point make them in a more constructive and less deliberately hostile way and want the game to succeed as opposed to what the entitled ones want, which is for this game to fail out of spite that they don't get what they feel is owed them.

Now before I get flamed into oblivion here, can I just point out this is "probably" only a very small percentage of people who post on the forums, like less than 3%, the rest are either those who don't like what the game is, are upset that they bought it, but don't actually expect a refund, or don't like what the game is [on the whole] but ultimately want it to be as good a game as its initial promise showed it could be.

Cogo

yodased wrote: »

They advertised a video game, I purchased a video game, I play a video game.

This is my main point that has been hit on a few times already in this thread.

If you have had a situation where the physical game would not play, you could not do anything, then sure a refund is probably appropriate for you.

If you have simply not enjoyed the playstyle, or you feel the quests were too buggy or grouping is bad or any of the other myriad "problems" people have with this game, then no you deserve nothing.

You purchased a game, you got a game. Just because that game isn't the game you thought/wanted/wished/hoped/prayed it would be, does not entitle you to a refund in my mind.

My last job included selling services for HP. One was customer support.
I do not care how much money someone would pay me. No way in feakin hell I would work as those poor people in CS who 90% of the calls have nothing to do with a valid support case.

I saw some reports and listened to the recorded work. People are.....
I dont know. I dont want to call my fellow humans for names, but the huge number of people who blame everything on everyone else except themselves.

Was it like this 20 years ago? Or have we become 5 years old the whole bunch of us?

I am not better myself. Not a refund, but example I been following Everquest next for years now, since I love Everquest. And that games got loads of features, looks great, Old school EQ developers. Whole package with new ideas and AI and...lots.

The same second I saw. Free-to-play. My years of interest dropped in 1 second, and I have not even looked at anything since.

Sure, free-to-play, I have a lot of valid reasons against. But how the hell do I know that it wouldnt work?

Requiemslove

You do not, but your bias against F2P affects your reasoning. That is the answer you need, friend.

Cogo

Requiemslove wrote: »

You do not, but your bias against F2P affects your reasoning. That is the answer you need, friend.

I AM bias. Because I "know" that free-to-play attracts players I rather not get close too.

And I want security in a game. I want to know it will be some sort of similar to their plan...if they have one.

Zenimax does, and the crazy thing they do is including anything in the sub.
New way, good I feel.

But you dont get me to play a free-to-play, game. Why? Cause I am like everyone else. I "know" its bad......how the hell can I say that?

vanillexhope

RedMiniStapler wrote: »

That ToS or EULA don't really apply to the residents of EU. I mean people can't just flat out and ask for refund just because they don't like the game, but if it isn't working as intended (too many bugs to the point you can't even play) then they are entitled for refund. The law will side with consumers rather than the company.

Yes the terms make room with their language for such circumstances:

"Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You."

yodased

I actually have played a couple of really good f2p mmo's before they became P2W. There is a WoW clone called Runes of Magic that was pretty fun back in the day, was F2P and if you liked the WoW experience, it was that and some more.

Also, Tera is a great F2P game IMO, boring at endgame with little good PVP, but great game for PvE.

You actually brought up a HUGE HUGE HUGE thought for me @Cogo‌

All things being equal, free-to-play time is congruent with ESO time. They may have different "value", but are the same "product"

Does anyone that feels their time paid into ESO not working deserving a refund also applies to F2P games not "working as advertised"?

Maybe not $15 a month, but its the same concept. Are you entitled for compensation of your time because the game didn't play the way you wanted?

killedbyping

Shut up and give my money back !

cigarsmoker

This is a weird situation with the advent of downloaded purchases.

In the OPs post if you bought that NES or Atari game and didn't like it you could return it for a refund to Toys-R-Us or where ever you happened to get it from. Now because for a lot of people there are no disks just a code to download whatever information is needed to play the game the waters are muddied.

Do you get a refund for deleting the game?
Do you get a refund for returning hard copy disks?
Do you get a refund for closing your account?

What exactly should the hard and fast rule be for this?

I don't know. I wish I did. I thought about it for a while and the only thing I can come up with is too confusing to even try an type it out.

The only thing I can say positively is that Game Time paid for is gone, just like a movie ticket. You paid to see the show, if you disliked the show you don't get your money back.

Cogo

yodased wrote: »

I actually have played a couple of really good f2p mmo's before they became P2W. There is a WoW clone called Runes of Magic that was pretty fun back in the day, was F2P and if you liked the WoW experience, it was that and some more.

Also, Tera is a great F2P game IMO, boring at endgame with little good PVP, but great game for PvE.

You actually brought up a HUGE HUGE HUGE thought for me @Cogo‌

All things being equal, free-to-play time is congruent with ESO time. They may have different "value", but are the same "product"

Does anyone that feels their time paid into ESO not working deserving a refund also applies to F2P games not "working as advertised"?

Maybe not $15 a month, but its the same concept. Are you entitled for compensation of your time because the game didn't play the way you wanted?

Good question, but my view of MMOs is simply reality. They work like they should. Takes time to stabilize. I feel fully I get my sub money worth.

They even keep their promises to release new stuff every 4-6 weeks...even if some people complains about that! Heh

Sub fee for me is cheat, save, I know what I get, and it keeps a type of player away. Depending on what company drives it and their plans...Sub is prefered.

Zeni has a 5 YEARS plan, with constant released new content. Cost? Sub fee.
No expansion......

Good question tough. I know to little about players in FTP games, other then Project Entropia.

You should be careful agree with me....the mob might attack you. I seam to be a big bullseyes here.. hehe.

Rainsage

In the interests of self-disclosure, I have unsubscribed from ESO after a month of play. I am not seeking a refund because I know I'll never get one. I was not given an exit survey of why I decided to unsubscribe, which speaks volumes to this company's interest in criticism and honest feedback.

The level of ESO fanaticism and defense of the game honestly surprises me on these forums. It's almost as bad as Yelp, where many of the positive reviews and the reactionary responses to negative reviews are done by company insiders.

Additionally, the usage of the Fox News and Right-Wing radio buzzword "Entitlement" surprises me on these forums. When did expecting a product that worked become "Entitlement?" Where has a corporate culture gone that used to take pride in delivering a product that worked?

Yes, this game is broken. Anyone who has tried Cyrodiil knows that this game is broken. I have not had a worse PvP experience since playing Shadowbane, and this game is going the way of Shadowbane. These forums abound with all of the reasons why this game is broken. This is not a matter of preference, or being nit-picky, or whining, or feeling "entitled." Zenimax would be wise to listen to the posters who care enough about the game to give them honest feedback, rather than the feedback of ESO zealots and apologists and (I really hope not) company insiders.

Thanks for the momentary dream that was ESO. Unfortunately for us players, it was only that - a dream.

Tannakaobi

Cogo wrote: »

Requiemslove wrote: »

You do not, but your bias against F2P affects your reasoning. That is the answer you need, friend.

I AM bias. Because I "know" that free-to-play attracts players I rather not get close too.

I used to agree with this, but my worse experiences in an mmo when it comes to players have been ESO by a clear cut mile.

I find that in ESO everyone wants to just solo, and people won't think twice about taking the node that's next to you while you are in combat, or the chest you are picking. Fortunately lock-picking is easy.

Also when I have done dungeons people are really rude, moaning because I want to listen to the story.. or just because I'm a NB. I don't bother with them anymore. I can hold my own in VR easy enough so I don't believe my DPS is all that bad and I'm not talking trials or anything. The guild/trade system is where I point my finger.

My best experience for players was in Neverwinter by a clear cut mile. I must stress that I am only talking about the friendliness of players, not the game. Neverwinter is by no means a good game imo, but a really enjoyable social environment.

Another game that had a really friendly player base was Age of Wushu.

So I no longer believe that subscriptions has any effect on which players are attracted to what games.

Tandor

Requiemslove wrote: »

[This is not to say some points they make are not valid, but others who make exactly the same point make them in a more constructive and less deliberately hostile way and want the game to succeed as opposed to what the entitled ones want, which is for this game to fail out of spite that they don't get what they feel is owed them.

What the entitled ones, as you rightly call them, want is to be able to play any game for nothing - that is what they really think is their entitlement. Since before this game even launched they have been doing everything they can to push it into F2P status so they can enjoy their "entitlement".

A lot of the complainers on the forums actually make it openly clear that the only reason they are critical of the present state of the game is the fact that there's a subscription. If it was F2P they'd be more than happy to carry on playing it, so the issues can't be all that game-breaking or they wouldn't want to play it at all.

jeradlub17_ESO

LOL I can explain it......Idiots.
The entitlement generation.

yodased

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

LOL I can explain it......Idiots.
The entitlement generation.

Nah I don't think its fair to automatically insult someone's intelligence based on the year they were born. There is a systematic shift, sure, but that's not because of age, they were taught this behavior.

Tandor

Tannakaobi wrote: »

So I no longer believe that subscriptions has any effect on which players are attracted to what games.

I have always found that the major determining factor in the level of community spirit is not the business model, it's the extent to which the game is focused on PvP. I personally prefer those games that keep the PvP to a separate server, and to be honest I think a lot of the PvP'ers prefer it that way too. In the case of TESO it would be great for every PvE'er to be able to do all of the Cyrodil PvE quests undistracted, and for every PvP'er to be able to engage in PvP anywhere in the world, but that would require separate servers and rulesets.

jeradlub17_ESO

yodased wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

LOL I can explain it......Idiots.
The entitlement generation.

Nah I don't think its fair to automatically insult someone's intelligence based on the year they were born. There is a systematic shift, sure, but that's not because of age, they were taught this behavior.

I don't know about that. I've got 4 kids all grew up in the same house under the same rule. I've taught them all the world owes them nothing it is all to be earned. Taught them all about deceptive advertising and most products don't live up to their ads every purchase is a risk/reward scenario. Yet I have one who would fall under the entitlement group thinking everything should just be given to her in life while the other three, who are actually younger than her, understand they have to earn it and things don't always live up to expectations or hopes. There is a generation in between that simply thinks this way due to the mentality of society and media as a whole while they were growing up.

yodased

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

[snip] There is a generation in between that simply thinks this way due to the mentality of society and media as a whole while they were growing up.

Didn't said it was the parents who taught them. It's not in human nature to be 'entitled'. It is a learned behavior.