Maintenance for the week of June 18:
· [COMPLETE] Xbox One: North American and European megaservers for patch maintenance – June 20, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®4: North American and European megaservers for patch maintenance – June 20, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC)
We are aware that some Steam players are having issues logging into the North American and European PC/Mac megaservers. We are actively investigating and will let you know when we have an update. Thank you!

Was this some sort of, demonstration?

GrfxGawd
GrfxGawd
✭✭✭
As a graphic designer and UI professional for nearly 20 years I know there's times when underlying code changes break things. Sometimes a little, sometimes everything ends up having to be scrapped. It's part of the business.

But literally every single addon I run, was broken, by what you did, except one - mine. And that's because my piddling little 32 byte file is outside your environment. You can't touch it, you can't change what it does or how it behaves. It doesn't even need ESO, it can be used for any application to make more resources available while limiting cores so other processes aren't starved.

What happened today was very, very disruptive to your most ardent supporters. Those who gain nothing by adding significant value to what you profit from. And to those who use those privately developed, personally funded intellectual properties to enrich their gaming experience.

The licensing agreement forced to accept as TOS, killing settings files. Many things just thrashed, completely and utterly inoperable. I spent hours trying to discover what's even salvageable. Most wasn't. I lost valuable data, and valuable time that could, should have been spent enjoying/playing the game.

We've already lost some of the Major players in the addon scene. Some of the best third party developers who contributed the most widely used third party additions to TESO. For the betterment of your community, and your paying customers others stepped up and took over most of those projects.

You have tough choices to make. Every business venture does. But maybe sit yourself in the chair of gamer Joe, or coder Jane - try to sit there and stare at your screen and see everything broken, and feel that. Feel that weight settle in. Feel the disappointment, feel it turn to frustration, to uncertainty - to paint it vivid, distrust.

It plants the very real seed that your efforts, your investment as a player and/or a developer are jeopardized.

No one is ever comfortable with a rug being jerked out from underneath them in a business relationship, ever. And as a former professional working for globally top ranked companies at the leading edge of their industries, I know for fact you are all too aware and familiar with that feeling yourselfs. But you get paid. We have to pay for the privilege.

Sincerely,
Bryan Montford
Beta Participant, Imperial Edition Pre Order customer, and (very) minor third party "developer" for TESO gamers.
Edited by GrfxGawd on June 25, 2014 7:57AM
You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • Cairenn
    Cairenn
    ✭✭✭
    @zgrssd It's summed up here, along with the abbreviated patch notes here.

    I've been talking to ZOS and they will hopefully be able to give me a changelog of for the API tomorrow (well, today technically, but I haven't slept yet so still 'tomorrow' in my mind ;) ). I'll get it posted as soon as I get it.
    Cairenn
    Co-founder & Administrator
    ESOUI
  • zgrssd
    zgrssd
    ✭✭✭✭
    Cairenn wrote: »
    @zgrssd It's summed up here, along with the abbreviated patch notes here.

    I've been talking to ZOS and they will hopefully be able to give me a changelog of for the API tomorrow (well, today technically, but I haven't slept yet so still 'tomorrow' in my mind ;) ). I'll get it posted as soon as I get it.
    In short:
    There is a bug with Saved Variables that might result in restting your addon saved vars (settings and saved values).
    That is slightly annoying. But not the planemeld some people make it out to be.
    Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
    Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
    Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
    Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
    Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
    Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
    Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS

    Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)

    If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.
  • GrfxGawd
    GrfxGawd
    ✭✭✭
    zgrssd wrote: »
    What exactly did happen? I am on the EU server and could not test the 1.2.3 version of the game yet.
    I read some claims that Tamriel is going down, but nothing concrete.

    In turn what you wrote here is nothing but a rant. This is the Addon forum, we don't need any rants.
    If you have question to us, ask that question. If you are a developer solving problems should be your first instict - not talking about them.

    My addon didn't break because what I'm doing is not dependant upon the game. My utility will never break until windows changes the underpinnings of the OS.

    It seemed to me almost a hostile gesture at the third party developer community. Maybe you LIKE seeing your work broken.

    I posted this for Zenimax, not for you. Sometimes a company needs to hear from the people that pay their checks.

    Thanks for your input.
    You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • zgrssd
    zgrssd
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sharee wrote: »
    GrfxGawd wrote: »
    I posted this for Zenimax, not for you. Sometimes a company needs to hear from the people that pay their checks.

    If you do not want to post for other players, use the ingame feedback, not a public forum.
    That.

    If you rant in a public forum, people are in thier right to be annoyed by your rant. You choose to have them affected by it.
    Instead of making it a thing between your target and you (feedback Formular).
    Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
    Leonida Peterson (EU), Daggerfall, Kajiit Nightblade, Tank & main Crafter
    Kurga Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Ork Dragonknight, Provision Mule
    Coldblood Peterson (EU) Argonian Templer, Daggerfall, Healer
    Incendia Peterson (EU), Dominion, Dunmer Dragonknight, fire DPS & healer
    Haldor Belendor (EU), Ebonhart, Breton Sorcerer, Tank
    Fuliminictus Peterson (EU), Ebonhart, Altmer Sorcerer, Electric DPS

    Me babbling about PvE roles and Armor, Short Guide to Addon Programming (for Programmers)

    If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.
  • SkOODaT
    SkOODaT
    ✭✭
    I'm at that point login yesterday and everything was a mess spent hours trying to figure it out just to give up because they couldn't be bothered to release an API change log one of my favourite addons I've created and never got to release is garbage now spent hours and hours making it , they removed get target x,y for no reason, I don't care about new vet dungeon or FOV I say roll back the client put back the API changes
  • mumok
    mumok
    ✭✭✭
    Well said.
  • Ojustaboo
    Ojustaboo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    zgrssd wrote: »
    There is a bug with Saved Variables that might result in restting your addon saved vars (settings and saved values).
    That is slightly annoying. But not the planemeld some people make it out to be.

    Depends on the addon.

    I'm usually good at making frequent copies of my lua files, but haven't done so for a couple of weeks (my fault I know)

    The Librarian addon and the HarvestMap addons have taken me weeks to build up. The Harvest Map one isn't so important as it's easy to replenish, but there's a fair few books I've filed away for future reading.

    Sure there's a web site with every book on but thats not really the point. If I was stupid enough to log into the game without backing up my lua files I can assure you that many many other players will, and a lot of them will have never made any backups either.

    Maybe the devs should add something in future that automatically creates a copy of the SavedVaribles directory upon the first login after a patch?
  • Newlyn
    Newlyn
    Soul Shriven
    Oh, when they release the update if they do of the existing addons I'm using actually, I will have to expend like ten minutes again to reconfigure them all. I want my money back. Oh wait, I never paid them, good.
  • GrfxGawd
    GrfxGawd
    ✭✭✭
    Newlyn wrote: »
    Oh, when they release the update if they do of the existing addons I'm using actually, I will have to expend like ten minutes again to reconfigure them all. I want my money back. Oh wait, I never paid them, good.

    Ten minutes! You come set up mine! Apparently you're a lot faster with that than I am.

    Seriously, I really did spend a couple hours off and on working on the issue. There were two sets of gamers though that it made me concerned for. Those less technically inclined than myself (hey, there's at least, 4 of them, out there, someplace) and the addon developers. I hope it's just a 10 min fix for all the guys and gals making the stuff that helps make our gaming experience better.

    My addon, isn't. It's a 32 byte .bat file. It's not even a utility.
    You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • GrfxGawd
    GrfxGawd
    ✭✭✭
    Ojustaboo wrote: »
    Maybe the devs should add something in future that automatically creates a copy of the SavedVaribles directory upon the first login after a patch?

    Don't hold your breath for any gesture of support for addons, other than the obligatory directory from Zenimax. Not trying to bag on them, but they made it very clear with that TOS addendum they wash their hands of anything addon related. And I'm not going to knock them for that. As a business I couldn't support code I didn't write either.
    You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • Newlyn
    Newlyn
    Soul Shriven
    GrfxGawd wrote: »
    I hope it's just a 10 min fix for all the guys and gals making the stuff that helps make our gaming experience better.

    Heh. I don't have any problem for them if they take ages to fix or update addons as long as they do it well. Also, nobody forces them to update it, although they should know beforehand updates will come making their old addons useless and needed to update.

    Also, most of the addons doesn't make our gaming experience better, but easier and faster. For example, showing the skyshards in a map doesn't mean for everyone that it's good... exploration... you know.

    Anyway, If you're only attached to play this game after some months because you have some addons installed, Elder Scrolls Online and Having fun in a game, you're doing it wrong.

    All in all, concealing yourself as a hero of those developers while you don't give a *** for them but for your lost game addon settings, it's quite funny. Good luck with that, whatever you're doing.
    Edited by Newlyn on June 25, 2014 5:20PM
  • desciviib14_ESO
    desciviib14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    As usual fanboys to the rescue of a company who made a bad decision. Yes, breaking the game of people who pay you is a badbusiness decision. Yep, I need addons and they need money so ain't we in a bind. I'm sure a few of you would have something to say despite the fact that ALL MMO's fail due to finances. So, in short ZOS will drive themselves into the ground like any number of past mmos or they'll wise up and realize that economic cold shoulders are easily returned in a stagnant economy. Before some fool says "go then", I'm sure ZOS would appreciate you telling paying customers to leave...afterall, such ridiculousness has worked well for other mmos...right?!?!
    There is nothing here of interest to any nations; as a matter of fact, there is nothing here but people.
  • Gillysan
    Gillysan
    ✭✭✭✭
    Careful with your responses, the moderators will censor you.

    This doesn't happen to third party sites for EVE. Any changes to the API are known months in advance and during one particular change the "old" way was supported for a whole year while switching to the new system. CCP knows how important their data is to third party sites & their customers.

    They don't wash their hands of this responsibility. :)
  • Newlyn
    Newlyn
    Soul Shriven
    Now a mad grammanazi-wannabe. Well, as someone said, this guy is begging for likes, give them to him and he will be happy.
    Edited by Newlyn on June 25, 2014 7:24PM
  • Gillysan
    Gillysan
    ✭✭✭✭
    Newlyn wrote: »
    GrfxGawd wrote: »
    I hope it's just a 10 min fix for all the guys and gals making the stuff that helps make our gaming experience better.

    Anyway, If you're only attached to play this game after some months because you have some addons installed, Elder Scrolls Online and Having fun in a game, you're doing it wrong.

    I think the drama from the OP is over the top. However, your comment I quote above I take complete exception from said words. I'm sure someone will step in with either a new addon or maybe the original authors will fix them. I won't be playing until there is a fix or new addon to take the place of X4D Bank and Advanced Filters.

    I logged off after going to the bank to deal with my crafting materials. I absolutely will not play the game without an inventory manager. It was ok for the first couple of tiers and when I had only a couple of characters. Now I have 6 characters and 6 crafters and 9 tiers worth of materials to deal with.

    ingeniousclown has already responded for Advanced Filters, so looks like that will be fixed. wilson0x4d hasn't been seen since before Craglorn so this one could be a dead addon.
  • GrfxGawd
    GrfxGawd
    ✭✭✭
    Gillysan wrote: »
    ingeniousclown has already responded for Advanced Filters, so looks like that will be fixed. wilson0x4d hasn't been seen since before Craglorn so this one could be a dead addon.

    Yes, most all the devs are scrambling trying to post fixes, but I'm worried about how many are willing to play this game of Don't Support the Third Party Devs. We have lost several of the best, the brightest, the most talented addon devs we were gifted with already. My tiny little .bat file is impervious to all of this, but these guys are doing some heavy lifting. A quality addon just doesn't fall out of a *** box. And some of these guys are honestly, and in my opinion rightfully angry and upset.
    You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • GrfxGawd
    GrfxGawd
    ✭✭✭
    ScardyFox wrote: »
    Some of the sycophants here defending this hot mess are grotesque.
    Sycophant, how utterly accurate and descriptive!
    If they get a few more together I'm thinking they can start their own Fanboy Fantasy Football League. They can be the EUTESOFBFFL.
    You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • Gillysan
    Gillysan
    ✭✭✭✭
    GrfxGawd wrote: »
    ScardyFox wrote: »
    Some of the sycophants here defending this hot mess are grotesque.
    Sycophant, how utterly accurate and descriptive!
    If they get a few more together I'm thinking they can start their own Fanboy Fantasy Football League. They can be the EUTESOFBFFL.

    I'm telling you man, stick to the topic at hand, you are going to get censored. Go for a walk, play another game, let the anger dissipate.
  • GrfxGawd
    GrfxGawd
    ✭✭✭
    mumok wrote: »
    I wish I could click the awesome button like 5 times.
    I did, but like the LUA API, it doesn't work...

    Wykkyd's frustration, that's why I posted. Like him I worked in the industry for 20+ years. Except I didn't make the code, I made all the interface elements that glued the code together that users actually interacted with. I did the images, the markup, the layout, consumer psychology, color psychology, cultural bias research, typography, UI testing and implementation, government mandated accessibility testing and tuning, and more.

    We've never met, or conversed, but everything he said - been there, done that. It's really hard to take that when your paid and it's your job. But when it's something you're doing on your own, gratis - Too much becomes too much. And I don't want to lose this guy, or the others like him. Honestly, his contribution, and that of others, have made this worth playing. What they do is every bit a part of the experience for me as the game content, especially now that I'm VR4.
    You know, I was once an optimistic gamer just like you. Then I took a patch to the game client from Zenimax.
  • ScardyFox
    ScardyFox
    ✭✭✭✭
    Wykkyd wrote: »
    I am not going to read every post in this thread. I'm not going to weigh in on who's more right than anyone else or who worded what poorly. At the end of the day you're all just users of Zenimax Online Studios' product. And that's the crux of it.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno‌, and the rest of your team, I'm going to give you a bit of advice: Disable Lua addon support entirely. Your API is overly, unreasonably limited and when it comes down to it it's fairly obvious that your company either does not really concern themselves with Lua or the API any further than as an afterthought, or that your company is utterly clueless on how to properly manage it.

    API updates must be announced in advance of upcoming patches clearly so that your addon developers (IE: those people who dedicate their free time to improving your product and garnering you additional users and accounts through their voluntary, unpaid support) can adapt to your API changes in advance and possibly even provide feedback before you cross that point of no return.

    This kind of update has become standard for ZOS and ESO. 0 warning, just pull the trigger. Leave your addon authors guessing because, well, why not... they'll just figure it all out again anyway, right?

    If I handled my day job as poorly as your API team does there jobs I wouldn't have my job. I've been in Information Technology for 22 years. I've been programming in one capacity or another for 28 years. I've been on good teams, bad teams, Waterfall projects, Scrum projects, Agile projects, blended cobbled together horribly managed projects, etc. Whatever excuses anyone wants to bat around for the way things are being handled, trust me... I've heard them. Whatever challenge you think you're facing, trust me... I've faced it (and for a lot more serious industries such as military & healthcare). Rest assured, none of the excuses make up for it.

    So... just stop. Turn it off. Be a game with a non-customisable UI like you obviously want to be and just be done with it.

    I've clocked almost two thousand hours working on addons, a website and talking to communities for this game since October 2013 pre and post launch and while I enjoy playing it I'm || close to just dumping all of my projects and walking away... mostly from the lack of "care" that I see for the subset of your community that I'm a part of.

    Thank you for this dose of reality posting.

    Are you trying to annoy people, Zenimax? Do you guys not like the adds on because it reveals how broken your game is? If we didn't have some of these add ons, we wouldn't know things were broken - so again, are you trying to cover your tracks or are you people just that damn ungrateful of these peoples` work, you can't be bother to let them know a head of time? This is bordering laughable with the level of absurdity.

    You lose a heavy hitter like Wykkyd, through sheer apathy, and you will be setting yourself up for yet another PR nightmare. You're gambling with the games reputation and you keep coming up short over and over again. Time to put the dice down and START interacting with your community - in particular with people who put so much (FREE) work into making the game better and more playable.

Sign In or Register to comment.