Why does every medieval/fantasy game leave out polearms nowdays?

Lynx7386

Back before even beta started up, there were a ton of polls on the official ESO forums back on the bethesda site asking about what weapons we most wanted to see in the game. It was already known that we'd have the basics - swords, maces, axes, greatswords, mauls, battleaxes, and staves - but the polls included a variety of other weapons, some common in ES lore and others not.

Polearms and spears always topped those polls, ranking even above hand to hand combat and throwing weapons.

Spears were a usable weapon in TES III: Morrowind, and polearm/spear weapons have been established in elder scrolls lore since as far back as I can remember. Why, then, do we not have any in ESO?


Polearms are among the most widely used weapons in the history of warfare, far more common on any historical battleground than the sword. Even when the firearm was introduced to the battlefield, polearms were still utilized in the form of bayonets attached to the muzzles of longrifles. Despite their common use in history, however, they are left out of nearly every RPG and MMORPG released in the last decade. Why do developers have such a seeming hatred for polearms and spears?

Vis

I want a blade attached to the end of my destro staff for unhorsing riders.

Lynx7386

A few of the staves look like they could possibly double as polearms in melee combat, but the fact is you cant actually swing them or stab with them, all you can do is swirl them around like harry potter and watch magic sparkles fly from the 'blade'. Very disappointing.

thebigfist

agreed. i want 2h polearms and 1hand spears.

AinGeal

I know one of the racial staff looks kinda like a spear. Although I agree, polearms would be great.

khele23eb17_ESO

Rushing for release is why. Some things they obviously didnt have time for.

Neutronium_Dragon

They were common in real world historical warfare because they were the standard for massed armies, but most polearms simply aren't practical for the sort of combat you see in games like TESO. They're marvelous when used by a well-trained squad in formation in a relatively open environment and that isn't being bombarded while they do so. They're generally bad choices otherwise. Polarms just aren't going to work with a combat model that involves constantly dodge rolling out of AoEs (nevermind how you'd manage to pull that off while holding onto something like a pike), that only sometimes grants the convenience of open terrain, and that involves a handful of unhistorically-capable weirdos for whom squad discipline is an alien concept.

Quaesivi

Polearms/Spears would work only if their range would be 10m, roughly the double of the melee range, otherwise pointless. But I'd really like to use a spear instead of a sword while tanking, most definitely, its historically effective afterall.

Mablung

I have to imagine there would be some balance issues with these items. You are talking about weapons that were designed for real world situations where they provide a specific reach advantage over their opponent. To balance these you would have to implement some sort of speed debuff along with a damage buff to the weapon type. Balancing like I said would be difficult.

I would love to see some form of the short spear in game at the very least.

Laura

this is a very good question. I love polearms

Terminus

I actually talked to Nick Konkle about spears during the Tamriel Garden last year, because many people were rallying about them.
This is what he had to say:

Nick Konkle wrote:

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can really do with a spear. You can poke people with it with a jabbing motion, but there isn't really much else. It's not an effective weapon for close combat. We might add pikes in later though.

Spears? no. Polearms/Pikes? Maybe, I'd like to see them added.

Mablung

Terminus wrote: »

I actually talked to Nick Konkle about spears during the Tamriel Garden last year, because many people were rallying about them.
This is what he had to say:

Nick Konkle wrote:

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can really do with a spear. You can poke people with it with a jabbing motion, but there isn't really much else. It's not an effective weapon for close combat. We might add pikes in later though.

Spears? no. Polearms/Pikes? Maybe, I'd like to see them added.

Cannot do anything with spears? Tell that to the Spartans.

Haxer

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Rushing for release is why. Some things they obviously didnt have time for.

XD like Guild halls, player housing, the ability to meet up with groups in game, Craglorn, theives guild, dark brotherhood, guild store features...

Mablung

Haxer wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Rushing for release is why. Some things they obviously didnt have time for.

XD like Guild halls, player housing, the ability to meet up with groups in game, Craglorn, theives guild, dark brotherhood, guild store features...

All items that are basic in an Elder Scrolls title.

AinGeal

For polearms, here is a gladiator in Aion using one. Don't mind the weird resolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mkIrImDsmA

Spears are not much different. They can be swung, thrust, thrown, etc.

Nick Konkle wrote:

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can really do with a spear. You can poke people with it with a jabbing motion, but there isn't really much else. It's not an effective weapon for close combat. We might add pikes in later though.

This just proves the lack of creativity that they have.

Varicite

Mablung wrote: »

Terminus wrote: »

I actually talked to Nick Konkle about spears during the Tamriel Garden last year, because many people were rallying about them.
This is what he had to say:

Nick Konkle wrote:

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can really do with a spear. You can poke people with it with a jabbing motion, but there isn't really much else. It's not an effective weapon for close combat. We might add pikes in later though.

Spears? no. Polearms/Pikes? Maybe, I'd like to see them added.

Cannot do anything with spears? Tell that to the Spartans.

To be fair, they mostly poked people w/ them w/ a jabbing motion. :P

Mablung

Varicite wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Terminus wrote: »

I actually talked to Nick Konkle about spears during the Tamriel Garden last year, because many people were rallying about them.
This is what he had to say:

Nick Konkle wrote:

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can really do with a spear. You can poke people with it with a jabbing motion, but there isn't really much else. It's not an effective weapon for close combat. We might add pikes in later though.

Spears? no. Polearms/Pikes? Maybe, I'd like to see them added.

Cannot do anything with spears? Tell that to the Spartans.

To be fair, they mostly poked people w/ them w/ a jabbing motion. :P

True but they would throw them and occasionally slashed with them. We can take a fantasy turn with it and look at the way Achilles fought in the movie Troy.

Ser Lobo

Where are the slings? Whips. Polearms. Staff melee (not magick). Unarmed.

I mean, there's plenty of room out there for new skill lines and animations.

AinGeal

Whips would be awesome. I can see some of the skills for it already. One to disarm the enemy for a few seconds. Another to trip them. Yet another to pull them to you.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

What about lances

Valn

even runescape has whips and spears.

Enderus

I think the lack of javelins bothers me more, since they would fit rather well with the kind of combat you see in ESO/Elder Scrolls. A javelin (especially something of an enchanted javelin) would be AMAZING against something like a troll or a large Daedra, and not bad in quick skirmishes between mer/men/women, especially in something like a siege.

I would also like polearms too of course, but finding a fitting way to fit them in would have to have an interesting approach given the fast paced, guerrilla-like battles we see in the game.

Maybe instead of having polearms as an entirely new weapon line it would be better to combine it with the current skill lines. This could work pretty well with a lot of the already existing abilities, like ransack, shield bash attacks, and a lot of the two hander abilities would work great with something like a glaive. The tricky part there though would be the difference in weapon reach.... and I couldn't hazard a guess as to how to solve that.

Phantax

Definitely too many pole threads on the forums already....lol



I agree though, a very obvious weapon choice for a fantasy game and rarely used.

murklor007neb18_ESO

Spears and polearms doesnt make sense in high fantasy games. Mind you there are two types here:

Low fantasy - The type where magic is truly magical and rare, where armies clash and a "sorcerer" is more like Gandalf. Basicly, war is war and magic is magic. They are not one and the same. Another name is medieval fantasy, with emphasis on the medieval part. Game of Thrones is a prime example of medieval/low fantasy. It would still be that if a mage had stood atop the wall tossing the occassional fireball down on the wild folk army. But if there had been 100 mages there, it change the scope of magic...

High fantasy - A world where magic is everywhere. In an army, there would be mages every 10m in the lines tossing fireballs, popping sheilds, fighting with summoned demons etc and so on. War and magic is one and the same thing, men with swords fill the ranks but is more cannonfodder to the grand mages. Warfare is more about heroes fighting heroes than armies in formation.

Guess which genre ESO fit? The later, definetly. Defensive warfare with spears and pikes is pointless, because the enemy would simply have a mage walk forward and wipe out the entire defensive position in the flick of a finger. A polearm wont defend against a Storm Atronach dropping from the sky in the middle of your phalanx formation.

So no, I dont think pikes/polearms/spears make sense in ESO. Its not realistic in the world of Tamriel. Magic is more realistic in the world of Tamriel.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

Daoc had polearms and spears and that game came out over 14 odd years ago, I agree more weapons are needed in this game.

Phantorang

Mablung wrote: »

I have to imagine there would be some balance issues with these items. You are talking about weapons that were designed for real world situations where they provide a specific reach advantage over their opponent. To balance these you would have to implement some sort of speed debuff along with a damage buff to the weapon type. Balancing like I said would be difficult.

I would love to see some form of the short spear in game at the very least.

They seem to be balancing (trying at least) Ranged 28m weapons with Melee 5m weapons range, adding another weapon with 10m range wouldnt be that different. It even seems like some of the weapons and abiliities with superior range, also got superior dps.

This might seem weird at first, but with good gap closers its not that big advantage with ranged, stamina weapons needs a dps boost compared to destro staff though, or destro staff get a nerf (annoying that seems like everyone runs around and spams Impulse)

Templar got a spear as a magic ability, but not what we are looking for here I guess

Polearms would be cool looking, no denying that.

phaneub17_ESO

I could use a Morning Star.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

DAOC has Polearms for the Albion scum......

PBpsy

It is pretty obvious I think. They want to avoid the work on another set of animations. In this game the animations for all weapons types are the same for each skill tree. Spears would require a new animations set for each weapon skill tree. If the would use the same animations it would look stupid because for most part swinging spears is kind of dumb.I have seen games using the same sword swinging animation for spears, it wasn't pretty. To put halberds and such it would require even more animation work. I think this is why we didn't have them in previous recent TES games either

dsalter

AinGeal wrote: »

For polearms, here is a gladiator in Aion using one. Don't mind the weird resolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mkIrImDsmA

Spears are not much different. They can be swung, thrust, thrown, etc.

Nick Konkle wrote:

When you get down to it, there isn't much you can really do with a spear. You can poke people with it with a jabbing motion, but there isn't really much else. It's not an effective weapon for close combat. We might add pikes in later though.

This just proves the lack of creativity that they have.

some of the spears main features was range, it's ability to puncture through vulnerable points of armor, some were capable of slashing (less effective then pokey pokey) and in desperation could be thrown as a javalin.
so the problem is, pokey could be done, puncturing could be done and possibly the slashes but being thrown is where the blockage comes in.

Halberds did not have this issue but were pretty useless up close due to such a long handle and the heaviness of them.

i can see why they left them out for now.

tho if you pay attention to skills, throwing knives and javalins ARE in the form of skills

phaneub17_ESO

PBpsy wrote: »

It is pretty obvious I think. They want to avoid the work on another set of animations. In this game the animations for all weapons types are the same for each skill tree. Spears would require a new animations set for each weapon skill tree. If the would use the same animations it would look stupid because for most part swinging spears is kind of dumb.I have seen games using the same sword swinging animation for spears, it wasn't pretty. To put halberds and such it would require even more animation work. I think this is why we didn't have them in previous recent TES games either

Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep is basically a stabbing motion, the animation can be an actual short spear or javelin in the hand and it be the same. Two other spells in the same line also function like this as throwing spears, with one vertical and the other horizontal.