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Can we have a PC MMO for our PC, please?

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  • Gremlis
    Gremlis
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    The concept of less is more certainly doesn't apply to pc games. If I wanted to only have 5 buttons I would be playing a console. I play a pc because it has tons of options, but only if you use them! I should have 10-12 attacks if I want. Because its not on my bar I some how forgot how to use it, even if on the same weapon I have slotted? Stop dumbing down pc games to match the console users.
  • Fleymark
    Fleymark
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    Gremlis wrote: »
    The concept of less is more certainly doesn't apply to pc games. If I wanted to only have 5 buttons I would be playing a console. I play a pc because it has tons of options, but only if you use them! I should have 10-12 attacks if I want. Because its not on my bar I some how forgot how to use it, even if on the same weapon I have slotted? Stop dumbing down pc games to match the console users.

    Totally agree, but I guarantee that's what happened with this game. And when I see all these people clamoring for solo everything I can't help but think they really should be playing console games. Or WoW and its clones.

    Can't tell you what a hard time I had starting this game with this hotbar situation.I've been playing stealth / assassin types for well over a decade in every mmo I play. Hide stealth whatever always goes on the 0 key. Here I couldn't get it further than 5. Just drove me crazy. I was literally having a harder time controlling abilities in fights with 5 keys than I do in most games with 12 because it threw me off so much. At one point almost thought about remapping 5 to 0 lol but then I'd have to remember that when on the other bar. Lol

    The other thing, too, is having to use 2 hands to control your toon....not sure I could have handled more than 5 hotkeys when I started because of this. Lol Most MMOs you move with direction keys and left hand key abilities...mouse is for pointing and selecting and the very occasional camera look. Here you have to aswd movement and weave in abilities while constantly riding mouselook with the other hand....which you can't workaround because you have to be ready to attack and block with mouse buttons. Why? Because the game was designed for a controller with 2 joysticks and 2 triggers. LOL

    I'm genuinely concerned having to play like this has damaged me for normal MMOs.

    I'm telling you, no PC gamer wants to hear this but we are playing the port of a console game...we just got it first. Probably so we could pay to beta test it for the console masses.

    I'm being cynical as hell, but tell me I'm wrong. Lol
    Edited by Fleymark on June 21, 2014 5:33AM
  • Laura
    Laura
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    Other than the absolutely horrible wheel I love this games UI more than any mmo I have ever played.

    You have addons to change it if you want to - this post is null.
  • Preachan
    Preachan
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    Folks who complain about the 6 skills only skillbar tend to forget, that this is a build / deck based MMORPG.

    Allright, not doing as good as TSW at that point (skill choices are more important there than here, and you got to decide which passives to use); but still - it's about choosing what to take with you. Managing your deck and combining wisely.

    Not the lame old "Oh, there's colorfull buttons all over my screen, let's push some!".
    One of the top reasons I stopped some other MMOs.
  • Mablung
    Mablung
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    ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »
    Mablung wrote: »
    ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »
    babylon wrote: »
    ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »
    babylon wrote: »
    badmojo wrote: »
    Quick slot wheel being a wheel instead of a drop down menu is bad because?

    Bringing up a massive wheel up in the middle of your screen then flicking round that wheel to select a potion to switch your potion of choice in the middle of a fight in a dungeon or something is ridiculous.

    The UI was built by crazy people who have never gamed a day in their life and/or we are beta testing for consoles, which is their real target market because some clown at HQ convinced them consoles are the way forward (pssst clown they're not, one day soon we will all have PCs in our lounges hooked up to our tv sets and stereos and more).

    It's not new, though. It's called a radial menu, and has been in a number of PC games before.
    Games we don't play maybe. Proper MMOs use hotbars.

    Proper MMO? A proper MMO being an MMOG, an MMORPG, an action MMO, what?

    Star Wars Galaxies introduced a radial menu well before NGE.

    Another game that uses radial menu's was Battlefield 2. Not an MMO at all, no, but action focused.

    The radial menu used in SWG was not needed for combat, so that portion of your argument is invalid in this context.

    Don't get crazy with the proper MMO definition. You know what the meaning is especially in the context of this thread/game.

    One of my examples, Battlefield 2, uses radial menu's extensively, even during combat (as callouts).

    That said, the radial menu (or a by-line option, like some addons) could be set so that you don't have to do three extra steps just to activate a potion. Hold q, highlight potion, let go of q. Potion activates automatically, instead of requiring q to be pressed again. One less step.

    How is Battlefield 2 even relevant to this discussion? Completely different genres. Completely different playstyle required.

    Stop being an apologist and looking for grains of salt to substantiate your arguments.
    Edited by Mablung on June 21, 2014 6:59AM
  • Mablung
    Mablung
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    Laura wrote: »
    Other than the absolutely horrible wheel I love this games UI more than any mmo I have ever played.

    You have addons to change it if you want to - this post is null.

    I tend to agree. The UI in any game has been something I always change if it allows for it.

  • poodlemasterb16_ESO
    poodlemasterb16_ESO
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    Blackwidow wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    While the core game has many features which are designed for ease of use with a console we as PC gamers once again have the advantage of mods (add-ons) which can be used to tailor the game to our use.

    http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info258-GreymindQuickSlotBar.html
    Here is a link the the quick slots you're after, free choice of keybinds and option to disable the core games selection circle.

    I understand there are limited Mods for ESO. I use about 20 of them.

    I find it lazy of ZOS to not have a PC version for us to use.

    You have a point?
  • Gwarok
    Gwarok
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    [SNIP]
    post removed.... due to the "Moderator Note" below

    #RESPECT


    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]
    I guess I ticked off a milk drinker... /facepalm
    Edited by Gwarok on June 21, 2014 9:43AM
    "Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade

    "I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"

    "I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke

    #SKOOMA!

    (Juliet):
    ...it is nor hand, nor foot,
    Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
    Belonging to a man.
    O, be some other name!
    What's in a name?
    That which we call a rose?
    By any other name would smell as sweet.
    Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
    (Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)



  • SFBryan18
    SFBryan18
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    Preachan wrote: »
    Folks who complain about the 6 skills only skillbar tend to forget, that this is a build / deck based MMORPG.

    Allright, not doing as good as TSW at that point (skill choices are more important there than here, and you got to decide which passives to use); but still - it's about choosing what to take with you. Managing your deck and combining wisely.

    Not the lame old "Oh, there's colorfull buttons all over my screen, let's push some!".
    One of the top reasons I stopped some other MMOs.

    Amen to that. Thank you.
    Edited by SFBryan18 on June 21, 2014 8:23AM
  • Gwarok
    Gwarok
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    SFBryan18 wrote: »
    Preachan wrote: »
    Folks who complain about the 6 skills only skillbar tend to forget, that this is a build / deck based MMORPG.

    Allright, not doing as good as TSW at that point (skill choices are more important there than here, and you got to decide which passives to use); but still - it's about choosing what to take with you. Managing your deck and combining wisely.

    Not the lame old "Oh, there's colorfull buttons all over my screen, let's push some!".
    One of the top reasons I stopped some other MMOs.

    Amen to that. Thank you.

    Thank the Nine Divines this is NOT a MOAB and have to /point and /click 2 play.
    Edited by Gwarok on June 21, 2014 8:50AM
    "Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade

    "I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"

    "I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke

    #SKOOMA!

    (Juliet):
    ...it is nor hand, nor foot,
    Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
    Belonging to a man.
    O, be some other name!
    What's in a name?
    That which we call a rose?
    By any other name would smell as sweet.
    Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
    (Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)



  • Anex
    Anex
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    Fought Molag Bal last night. I'm a stamina based build with my NB (yeah.. not even what death recap suggests when I die).. and often I was just running around trying to dodge hits waiting for some STAMINA or maybe even some magicka to sun. I kept thinking "how nice it would be to be able to use a stamina potion or magicka potion to get that back up". Of course I could WHEEL to another potion less important than the health ones I had quickslotted, but then how would I be able to run around and dodge (which was impossible without stamina anyway)?

    Needless to say, it was a LONG fight. That quickslot wheel can go DIAF.
    Edited by Anex on June 21, 2014 8:58AM
    Assassination/ Dual Wield Specced Stamina-based Nightblade, because I like Hardmode apparently
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  • Pele
    Pele
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    I agree with you, OP, about QS. Despite its name, Quickslot is anything but quick.


    Turelus wrote: »
    While the core game has many features which are designed for ease of use with a console we as PC gamers once again have the advantage of mods (add-ons) which can be used to tailor the game to our use.

    http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info258-GreymindQuickSlotBar.html
    Here is a link the the quick slots you're after, free choice of keybinds and option to disable the core games selection circle.
    +Awesome. Thank-you! This should be standard. I hope the add-on's developer does not abandon it.
  • babylon
    babylon
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    Fleymark wrote: »
    The irony, tho, is if they don't do something to the vet ranks by then you will see a full scale revolt when this thing hits consoles. You think people are crying now? Zero chance your average console gamer is going to slog thru the VRs as they currently exist.

    Exactly - the vet levels will destroy console players, should be fun to watch (assuming they don't just magically nerf it for them when it's released while we had to slog through this crap on the PC because console players have a special spot in their heart and everything).
  • Tobiz
    Tobiz
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    Mablung wrote: »
    Paying to beta test for console is all that we have been doing.
    Im not entirely sure if I disagree...
    Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.
  • Blackwidow
    Blackwidow
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    Thunderchief wrote: »
    If a modder can create a pc gui in his moms basement then surely a massive game company can create 2 separate gui's for console and pc.

    QFT.
  • Fleymark
    Fleymark
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    Preachan wrote: »
    Folks who complain about the 6 skills only skillbar tend to forget, that this is a build / deck based MMORPG.

    Allright, not doing as good as TSW at that point (skill choices are more important there than here, and you got to decide which passives to use); but still - it's about choosing what to take with you. Managing your deck and combining wisely.

    Not the lame old "Oh, there's colorfull buttons all over my screen, let's push some!".
    One of the top reasons I stopped some other MMOs.

    I agree, and modern MMOs have turned us into button mashing monkeys. Some games are so over the top with this it's ridiculous. Most of them, actually. I like that you have to carefully choose your ability set in this game. BUT...

    A) That's not really a UI issue. The ability bar and the hotbar don't have to be the same exact thing. There's no reason we can't have the limited ability set we have now and still be able to hotkey at least our number keys how we want. Some people might like the option of putting potions on there avoiding the wheel as well as getting heavy/light attacks off the mouse, Sprint, whatever. What the hell kind of MMO has no macros? What the hell kind of MMO doesn't let you hard set an /assist macro, for that matter?

    The original EQ limited you to 8 spells on the casting bar for the very same reasons the quoted poster mentions. Activatable with alt 1-8 or you could put a spell directly on your hotbar or you could custom write macros to cast for you along with text and put that on your hotbar. Skills worked in a similar way. But the hotbar was independent of the ability limitations and the player was given the freedom to use it as preferred. That was 15 years ago.

    Having your hotkey setups clamped down like this is just lame in a modern MMO.

    B ) It has to actually work. LOL. There needs to be real balance.Otherwise you wind up with one or a couple optimal builds and everything else is forgotten. Has no place in a "play your way" game. Light and staffs anyone? But this is a different conversation.
    Edited by Fleymark on June 21, 2014 11:17AM
  • Lodestar
    Lodestar
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    Turelus wrote: »
    While the core game has many features which are designed for ease of use with a console we as PC gamers once again have the advantage of mods (add-ons) which can be used to tailor the game to our use.

    http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info258-GreymindQuickSlotBar.html
    Here is a link the the quick slots you're after, free choice of keybinds and option to disable the core games selection circle.

    So in other words, once again ZOS wanted others to shore up their shortfalls, and not accept responsibility.
  • daneyulebub17_ESO
    daneyulebub17_ESO
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    You people saying "radial menus" are fine. That's not the point.
    Radial menus aren't bad for all things--I'd be fine if they were used in, say, crafting.

    But--they're terrible for combat situations if you have to spin around a circle in the midst of battle to fine something, then hit another key to activate it.

    And this particular implementation, that doesn't let you bind to anything but the one you chose via the clumsy method they designed, is a monstrosity.

    It's like they purposefully designed it to force people to use just one type of potion in combat--certainly never more than a couple. Ruining the need and market for more specialized, 2nd or 3rd tier occasional use potions.

    And add-ons still make you hit two keys to activate a potion--not that any game should rely on 3rd party amateurs to SCRIPT a proper interface.

    They need to rework the Quick Slot bar.

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  • Ser Lobo
    Ser Lobo
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    daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »
    You people saying "radial menus" are fine. That's not the point.
    Radial menus aren't bad for all things--I'd be fine if they were used in, say, crafting.

    But--they're terrible for combat situations if you have to spin around a circle in the midst of battle to fine something, then hit another key to activate it.

    And this particular implementation, that doesn't let you bind to anything but the one you chose via the clumsy method they designed, is a monstrosity.

    It's like they purposefully designed it to force people to use just one type of potion in combat--certainly never more than a couple. Ruining the need and market for more specialized, 2nd or 3rd tier occasional use potions.

    And add-ons still make you hit two keys to activate a potion--not that any game should rely on 3rd party amateurs to SCRIPT a proper interface.

    They need to rework the Quick Slot bar.

    I do actually agree with this.

    I don't agree that it's a console-based design, or that radial menu's are somehow console-specific, or that ESO not looking exactly like WoW (which seems to be the generalization for a 'real MMO', skipping a whole decade of trends otherwise) is somehow a downfall.

    But as far as the complaint on accessing different potions in battle? Valid. Why can we not Alt+1 or Ctrl+1, etc?

    Mods can do much with the UI. But it's up to ZOS to fix the keybindings. Some want mouse movements? Let them. Some want Alt and Ctrl and Shift bindings? Let them. Some want better quickslots or easier out of combat bar rotations? Let them.
    Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
    Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
    Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.

    XBOX NA
    Ruze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.

    He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.

    This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.
  • Aoifesan
    Aoifesan
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    Azzuria wrote: »
    Couple of things.

    First off, ZOS chose to make the UI minimalist. It seems they wanted to recreate the Skyrim interface closely as possible. It's a choice, like or don't. There are mods that can clutter-up your screen with more MMO-like stuff.

    Secondly, yeah, they did kinda make the UI a bit more console friendly. Again, it was a design choice and one I'm not overly fond of, but you take the good with the bad.

    Only they didn't and this UI is ALL BAD.
  • AinGeal
    AinGeal
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    ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »
    The UI, in general, reflects vanilla Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim.

    The radial menu system has been a staple of many games since SWG (the first time I remember seeing and using it).

    The five-slot action bar is one of the prime elements of the modern 'Action RPG' which is also reflected in Guild Wars 2

    GW2 has 10. 5 from weapon choice, 1 heal, 3 utility and 1 elite.
  • FrauPerchta
    FrauPerchta
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    UI is fine with me except for the idiotic consumables wheel. Whom ever conceived of that should be banned from game design. Give us another bar which can only be used for consumables.
  • Singular
    Singular
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    Blackwidow wrote: »
    hk11 wrote: »
    In their defense, I saw someone playing FFXIV on PS3 and it was a total clusterf**k due the UI. I think they will have to keep it pretty simple for it to work on the console.

    Do I like this? No sir, not at all. I don't think MMOs belong on the console at all.

    Why can't they build a different GUI for the console?

    Especially if the console is going to be on a separate server.

    I thought "ok, 6 buttons plus the mouse b/c the consoles will be on" but someone else said they were getting separate servers! So...what's the problem.

    They can have limited ability bar, we can have full pc one.
    War, give me war, give me war.
  • Emperor
    Emperor
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    It's called add-ons. Download them
    If you like small group PvP (2-4 players) and solo PvP check out my video ;)https://youtube.com/watch?v=jechGImtFio

    SPOILER: The first 40 seconds of the video contains a scene from the final Molag Bal boss fight!

    .
  • Blackwidow
    Blackwidow
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    Emperor wrote: »
    It's called add-ons. Download them

    No, it really isn't.
  • badmojo
    badmojo
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    Anex wrote: »
    Fought Molag Bal last night. I'm a stamina based build with my NB (yeah.. not even what death recap suggests when I die).. and often I was just running around trying to dodge hits waiting for some STAMINA or maybe even some magicka to sun. I kept thinking "how nice it would be to be able to use a stamina potion or magicka potion to get that back up". Of course I could WHEEL to another potion less important than the health ones I had quickslotted, but then how would I be able to run around and dodge (which was impossible without stamina anyway)?

    Needless to say, it was a LONG fight. That quickslot wheel can go DIAF.

    You can still run while pressing Q and switching potions.

    Pressing Q and switching potions takes about 1-2 seconds.

    Health and stamina(& even magicka) can be combined into a single potion.

    If you couldn't run and dodge because you had no stamina, why did you to continue to attempt to run and dodge so much that you weren't able to even press Q for 1-2seconds?

    It's like your fear of using the wheel is what's holding you back, not the actual wheel itself.
    [DC/NA]
  • PBpsy
    PBpsy
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    Wait! Some people actually used the default Skyrim UI while playing Skyrim?ROFLMAO
    ESO forums achievements
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  • SamWale
    SamWale
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    I think the minimalist UI is what makes ESO look better than other MMOs in my opinion, it only shows what we NEED to see and Add-Ons give us the option of seeing more if necessary.

    Floating names above characters/enemies and flashing damage stats all over the screen is exactly what puts me off other MMOs and would absolutely ruin the experience for me!
  • p_tsakirisb16_ESO
    p_tsakirisb16_ESO
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    I like the minimalistic UI of TESO. You focus on the action not the buttons, bars etc.

    It has no clutter.

    Installed CLS just to run some tests and turned it off. I do not want a rainbow flashing on my screen all the time, and I do not care of my DPS. I am intelligent enough to know when I need improvement on my setup also.

    And that is the most annoying thing when comes to chatting tbh, when people started spamming colourful messages on the chat. Zone was bad enough, but now is a constant stream of rainbow to the point I closed it. And I do not refer to selling items by link, but having a spam of advertisement with every other word in different colour, or at the same default colours of other functions. (eg whisper).
  • Blackwidow
    Blackwidow
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    SamWale wrote: »
    Floating names above characters/enemies and flashing damage stats all over the screen is exactly what puts me off other MMOs and would absolutely ruin the experience for me!

    That's why it's called optional.
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