Why don't we receive AP for killing keep guards, mages, archers, etc?

LonePirate

@nukeyoo‌

You really do not get it, do you? What is the purpose of the game play in Cyrodiil, the game's PVP zone? It is not killing players. If this was a true PVP zone in your idyllic world where wiki definitions are law regardless of how ZOS has hybridized them in their game, then maybe your views would actually carry some weight and standing. Given how the PVP was implemented in this game, your reliance on one definition only terms only proves how outdated they have become.

Let me repeat for you as reading comprehension may be a challenge for you. The goal of this PVP zone is to control the six keeps around the Imperial City. That is the goal we are all trying to achieve. We are simply competing with other players in the process. However, the competition with other players is optional and is not required at all in order to complete the PVP zone objectives. Killing these NPCs is required to achieve this goal. I think the PVP zone rewards of AP should be offered for completing these mini-tasks en route to completing the PVP goal. Evidently, you prefer to cling to outdated definitions that really are not applicable to this game so you can use them as a crutch to support your position which already has holes in it because of the XP/VP they offer and the AP gained from repairs.

If you want to eliminate all of these keeps and their NPCs and simply place players in a varied topographical battlefield in order to honor your strict, archaic definitions of PVE and PVP, then I would certainly be open to that discussion. However, that is not the game we are playing. This game has offered up a PVP zone objective which contains tasks that offer no PVP zone rewards, which I think is wrong. When unfounded fears of farming and dependencies on outdated terms are used to support an opinion, then that opinion is on pretty shaky ground.

Gisgo

You keep saying the same thing with a different wall of text everytime.

You would like NPCs to reward APs.
Almost everybody else does not.
Draw your conclusions.

LonePirate

Gisgo wrote: »

You keep saying the same thing with a different wall of text everytime.

You would like NPCs to reward APs.
Almost everybody else does not.
Draw your conclusions.

My viewpoint is one based on consistency with the purpose of the zone. Give these NPCs a reward of 1 AP for all I care. Just give them something.

Views contrary to mine are based on absurd, outdated definitions used in other games or are based on fears that someone's leaderboard position may be jeopardized.

My opinion may be a minority one but at least it is in the spirit of the game's PVP zone objective and is not based on irrelevant wording or selfish and meaningless positioning. That conclusion is pretty evident.

Gisgo

Because you make a matter of principle out of a matter of gameplay, and you shouldnt.

Rewarding for objectives makes sense on paper, but makes the game boring while playing it.

I am very familiar with the concept of "playing for the realm", but the moment you reward it with points its not "for the realm" anymore.

LonePirate

Gisgo wrote: »

Because you make a matter of principle out of a matter of gameplay, and you shouldnt.

Rewarding for objectives makes sense on paper, but makes the game boring while playing it.

Oh, the irony when this post is taken in context with some of your other posts!

I can only wonder what you think about playing a game with no rewards for accomplishing objectives if you think it is boring to play a game that actually rewards players for those objectives.

Gisgo

LonePirate wrote: »

I can only wonder what you think about playing a game with no rewards for accomplishing objectives if you think it is boring to play a game that actually rewards players for those objectives.

Well since you asked, if i would make an RvR game i would keep virtual rewards completely out of it.
No alliance points, no gear, no realm abilities, just titles and bragging rights for playing the game well and owning your enemies, their land, their keeps.

Server/faction politics kept me play daoc for years, not having to grind up to RR11.

But this isnt my game, or yours.

LonePirate

Gisgo wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I can only wonder what you think about playing a game with no rewards for accomplishing objectives if you think it is boring to play a game that actually rewards players for those objectives.

Well since you asked, if i would make an RvR game i would keep virtual rewards completely out of it.
No alliance points, no gear, no realm abilities, just titles and bragging rights for playing the game well and owning your enemies, their land, their keeps.

Server/faction politics kept me play daoc for years, not having to grind up to RR11.

But this isnt my game, or yours.

I could potentially support a system with no rewards whatsoever as it would be better than this hybridization we have now, which neither of us prefer. You want no rewards and I want every task and objective to offer a reward, even if it is a bare minimal one. I prefer carrots at the end of my sticks and you don't, which is perfectly fine. I'm guessing we both think our view is the better one for the game. As you said though, it's not our game. We simply play it want it to be better.

Gisgo

Yeah i hate carrots in videogames with a passion.
Actually if i ever open a software house ill call it rotten carrot or something.

Cody

so people don't farm them all day for easy free AP point's the emperor problems right now would be MUCH worse if you got AP from NPC guards.

Halrloprillalar

Gisgo wrote: »

Yeah i hate carrots in videogames with a passion.
Actually if i ever open a software house ill call it rotten carrot or something.

To be fair, GW2 had a 'no-carrot' philosophy that I got pretty bored with (in PvE) and a very zergy objective-less RvR system that I also got quite bored of (that and no horses... and you thought Cyro was bad). The no-reward arena system ("SPvP") was actually quite fun for a while but was not conducive to permanent groups and friendships/alliances/guilds and favored fotm systems that I eventually gave up on as well. Wasn't a fan of the 'random type gear piece for looks' reward thing either.

There has to be some carrot, it is a game after all. Leaderboards for long term campaigns are excellent balance of a standard type reward (like gear, a la WoW) and no-carrot (like GW2) imo. Ideally they wouldn't be topped by exploiters, but alas... everywhere there is a shortcut...

But back to the subject:
The ONLY type of pvp in this game (currently) is AvA. For it to be plagued with PVEness would be an insult to the pvp playerbase (even moreso than the absurd merc nonsense a week or so ago). I do NOT want to see "LF keep grind group Cyro" or "WTB flip trades at arrius LM" type garbage in /z.

Gisgo

GW2 didnt have factions, hence no pride, not even a shade of it.
I dont know how they could think it was going to work.

But anyway my opinion (im pretty radical) is that once you stop looking at "numbers" there are plenty of carrots around. Your banner on an enemy keep being the biggest carrot for this kind of game. Too bad we dont even have banners

I have friends playing planetside 2 several months after having hit BR100 (the cap).
There is no more carrot for them and they are still enjoying it.

Sorry for derailing but its getting interesting

Halrloprillalar

Gisgo wrote: »

GW2 didnt have factions, hence no pride, not even a shade of it.
I dont know how they could think it was going to work.

Well it was 'realm'-based but yea, idk. I guess they thought there would be some huge realm pride thing going on... I didn't really get it either.

LonePirate

NookyZooky wrote: »

so people don't farm them all day for easy free AP point's the emperor problems right now would be MUCH worse if you got AP from NPC guards.

I'm sorry but this fear is completely baseless. Make these guards offer up 1 AP when they are killed or limit the AP to the top three contributors of the kill. Nobody will be farming these NPCs because their contribution to the Emperor scores will be meaningless.

Is there anyone on this forum who is not fraught with absurd paranoia about the leaderboards being affected by this change? Everything resets in 10 days and there are far easier ways to earn AP. I am sure glad I don't live my life fearing such meaningless changes to a video game.

Samadhi

I'd much rather just see the guard NPCs removed from Cyrodiil entirely.

As it stands now, though, I'm glad they at least do not give AP.

Gisgo

LonePirate wrote: »

Is there anyone on this forum who is not fraught with absurd paranoia about the leaderboards being affected by this change?

Im not paranoid about the leaderboard im paranoid about most players being paranoid about the leaderboards
You can say its not affecting me as long as i dont care but once everyone around me is farming instead of having fun it is affecting me too.

Halrloprillalar

Samadhi wrote: »

I'd much rather just see the guard NPCs removed from Cyrodiil entirely.

As it stands now, though, I'm glad they at least do not give AP.

I can see why they're needed but I'm perfectly fine with them not giving AP.

XP/VP is fine (they are annoying to fight at the very least) and I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of soul gem/potion chance, since AvA is quite the gold sink.

Halrloprillalar

@LonePirate‌ would you really be satisfied if they only gave 5 AP each? Like I don't even see how that makes killing them any more worthwhile.... except for bots.

LonePirate

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

@LonePirate‌ would you really be satisfied if they only gave 5 AP each? Like I don't even see how that makes killing them any more worthwhile.... except for bots.

I would be satisfied with 1 AP. I merely threw out 100 AP because it is a small number given the task. I can run scouting missions and receive 250 AP all day long and they do not impact the PVP objectives in this game at all, not to mention their ridiculous ease. I don't think it is unreasonable to toss out a few AP for killing these NPCs, especially since their super elite status is on par with the skulls bosses in the PVE zones.

ZheinLevin

Because..
"LFG Cyrodiil NPC AP Grind" will inevitably happen while "Get the f**king scroll back" is happening.

Halrloprillalar

LonePirate wrote: »

I can run scouting missions and receive 250 AP all day long and they do not impact the PVP objectives in this game at all, not to mention their ridiculous ease.

Please come to Wabbajack and talk about easy pvp objectives or AP gain by actual pvp.

Jaxom

LonePirate wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

@LonePirate‌ would you really be satisfied if they only gave 5 AP each? Like I don't even see how that makes killing them any more worthwhile.... except for bots.

I would be satisfied with 1 AP. quote]

So why even change it at that point? Chances are they will break something in the process anyway.

Zintair

Op has definitely not played WAR and saw the PvE trading that occured.

I think the way AP is gained is fine, what NEEDS to change is that AP is practically useless.

Still sittin on a few million AP with nothing but siege to use it on.

LAME

Where is my Legendary PvP gear set bonuses?!?!?

LonePirate

Zintair wrote: »

Op has definitely not played WAR and saw the PvE trading that occured.

I think the way AP is gained is fine, what NEEDS to change is that AP is practically useless.

Still sittin on a few million AP with nothing but siege to use it on.

LAME

Where is my Legendary PvP gear set bonuses?!?!?

You have a few million AP and you're against the inconsequential change of adding even a single AP as a reward for killing these NPCs? You really do not understand the issue here, do you? Your sense of proportion is also completely out of whack if you are unable to comprehend the difference between 1 (or 100) and1,000,000.

Gisgo

And whats the difference between 1 and 0, Pirate?

LonePirate

Gisgo wrote: »

And whats the difference between 1 and 0, Pirate?

A matter of principle. Reward players for completing a task, even if that reward is as minimal as the game can permit.

Gisgo

LonePirate wrote: »

A matter of principle.

I see your point, but as i already said: gameplay > principles.

Actually: gameplay > anything.

Zintair

LonePirate wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Op has definitely not played WAR and saw the PvE trading that occured.

I think the way AP is gained is fine, what NEEDS to change is that AP is practically useless.

Still sittin on a few million AP with nothing but siege to use it on.

LAME

Where is my Legendary PvP gear set bonuses?!?!?

You have a few million AP and you're against the inconsequential change of adding even a single AP as a reward for killing these NPCs? You really do not understand the issue here, do you? Your sense of proportion is also completely out of whack if you are unable to comprehend the difference between 1 (or 100) and1,000,000.

I think you lack a basic understanding of human principle.

People will take the avenue of least resistance. Therefore they will sit up ALL night farming resource guards and letting them respawn to garner AP and potential get leaderboard or Emperor on a campaign (especially the low pop ones)

I have millions of AP from actually killing people, defending keeps and attacking defended ones. THAT is a working system. The problem is nothing to spend it on.

You really feel the need to be rewarded for killing PvE mobs in a PvP zone?

Go do Daily quests or something. Or maybe a Trial in Craglorn.

If your ONLY argument is to MINIMALLY reward players, then wtf is the point? You say principle? What principle? It makes NO SENSE.

Doing something just to do it is NEVER justification for anything.

Lowbei

"bads would rather farm npcs to gain the points that everyone else competes for"

Halrloprillalar

Zintair wrote: »

Op has definitely not played WAR and saw the PvE trading that occured.

I think the way AP is gained is fine, what NEEDS to change is that AP is practically useless.

Still sittin on a few million AP with nothing but siege to use it on.

LAME

Where is my Legendary PvP gear set bonuses?!?!?

Personally I think gear grinding shouldn't be a thing in PVP. Especially considering how many people farmed AP by exploiting.

If anything there should be some kind of 'unique' siege/consumables/trinkets specifically for group utility. I would def pay 1k AP for markers (people, wall, ground, enemy, etc) or 'sentry wards' of some kind. Hell I'd even use it to buy soul gems ffs.

But anyway, back to the topic.

There will never be AP for PVE.

LonePirate

Gisgo wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

A matter of principle.

I see your point, but as i already said: gameplay > principles.

Actually: gameplay > anything.

Without principles and a uniform set of rules, gameplay is meaningless.

Some of the fear mongering conspiracy theorists on here would scare me if I could ever stop laughing at the epic stupidity of their posts. No one will be farming these guards if they reward a single AP upon the kill. Why would people farm these if they can run several scouting missions in the time it takes to obtain 250 kills and the 250 AP obtained from a single scouting mission? Why would someone spend hours killing several hundred of these guards when they can receive the same amount of AP for a single kill of a player - a player who is likely far easier to kill than one of these skull boss equivalent guards? What would stop a player from an opposing faction from hiding in a tower and killing one of these players who thought it would be a good idea to farm these guards for that single AP each? I guess paranoia prevents the exercise of rational thought for some people around here.