Top reasons for guild exodus

Sleepydan

Meh. I found a couple rp guilds and once I started getting into it I'm having more fun than I have in a while.

Kililin

Sleepydan wrote: »

Meh. I found a couple rp guilds and once I started getting into it I'm having more fun than I have in a while.

Now imagine the fun to be had in a mmo game actually supporting role playing ...

wrlifeboil

What happens in eso when the guild leader doesn't log on for long time or quits?

epoling

The one guild I am in that really fell apart was for what I consider a totally ridiculous reason. I joined this guild on day 2 of the game. On day 3 they were already talking about how good the guild would be in Wildstar. However, the real game to be in would be Archeage. And they were encouraging everybody to put their money into ships for Star Citizen. They were really jumping games faster than devs can make them. ESO didn't have a chance with them because they had moved on before they started playing. Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of people like that nowadays. Short attention spans so unable to stick with anything long enough to see how it turns out.

Reykice

Most people i know like the added content VR levels provide....

The rest is true... the 5 abilities crap gets boring after a while and its always restrictive. All it does is make people use the same build as its always something that works a little better vs other things.

So all this does is it ruins any diversity, nobody will use some skills because they are only good in certain situations and you can`t afford to keep them on your bar...

Not to mention if you use passives... if you use 2-3 passive skills then you are left with only 2 active ones... this makes for a very boring game play.

Then you have the Trials that add NOTHING... you can craft better gear so why even bother? The leader board? Ha.

After that what`s left to do? No arena PvP to just jump in and have some quick fun, no dungeons that are so hard it takes ages to clear like a 2-3h raid...

This makes people quit after reaching the level cap... as there is really nothing else left to do, no way to get better gear or advance your character....

There should always be something left to grind out, its an MMO, if you can`t give players something to do to keep playing they will quit. Pure and simple.

You could have just made this single player with co-op... it would have been the exact same thing... so either add specific MMO style things to do and grind or just give up and stop wasting money as players will keep on quitting.

Kililin

epoling wrote: »

The one guild I am in that really fell apart was for what I consider a totally ridiculous reason. I joined this guild on day 2 of the game. On day 3 they were already talking about how good the guild would be in Wildstar. However, the real game to be in would be Archeage. And they were encouraging everybody to put their money into ships for Star Citizen. They were really jumping games faster than devs can make them. ESO didn't have a chance with them because they had moved on before they started playing. Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of people like that nowadays. Short attention spans so unable to stick with anything long enough to see how it turns out.

Thats why a game has to get you hooked from the start.
They would have stayed, but unfortunately game developers don't get it since WoW. At least not in the mmo sector.

This games developers either ignore critics because we are wrong and the majority enjoys the game, or they are in total denial whats happening.
Personally i think it is the latter. And thats the reason for me to leave after my subscription runs out. I buy a longer one for every game that is interesting in the first 30 days, because i know there will be problems.

FFS they are not even able to acknowledge problems, or explain why they are doing the things they do.

Tandor

On the subject of changing guild populations, this was always going to be an issue in a game that allowed you to join up to five guilds, thereby removing any semblance of loyalty, community or long-term viability, and where a major part of the incentive to join those guilds was to access the deeply flawed trading system. Most guilds don't serve the purpose in this game that they traditionally serve in other MMOs.

Phantorang

ZoS really should pull the game back, and continue beta, and re-release when the game got some actual content worth gaming for.

-No large scale raids, this is absurd and is a huge reason PvP guilds are the only ones that works. PvE guilds got nothing to do together, except 12 man dungeon in Craglorn, but its small and the rewards arent that good. Craglorn IS fun, I think its fun to beat the Archives, but its to little to late.

-Class balance, with Templar DPS, 3 templars and 1 other class cannot do Spindleclutch due to bad dps, thats ridiculous, a templar is a burden for the group, unless you know some exploit.

-only 5 abilities, the swapping doesnt count, it cant be relied upon, it stucks, lags or even does nothing. Game is made for console, thats more and more obvious.

-The game isnt ready for consoles yet, its been postponed at least 6 months, the PC game should have been too, maybe even a year at the current state of the game.

Paying for beta testing makes people feel screwed. Tons of players just vanished, and very few will return unless the game is relaunched with the minimum of expectations we should have for an ESO game.

Wifeaggro13

Well hopefully they are listening now. Subs are up

nudel

Phantorang wrote: »

-Class balance, with Templar DPS, 3 templars and 1 other class cannot do Spindleclutch due to bad dps, thats ridiculous, a templar is a burden for the group, unless you know some exploit.

This is not true.

I have done that exact dungeon with 3 templars, all filling different roles. One temp was a light armor healer with resto staff. One was a tank with heavy armor and sword/board. Third temp was an archer dps in medium armor. Oh and before you start claiming some other class clearly carried us, our 4th was a nightblade.

We had no problems.

Most_Awesome

They need Arena's PvE and PvP.

PvE one could be 1-4 players fighting waves of npc's bit like (DOW2 The Last Stand)
Game needs daily's to do this is an mmo after all, and the crap in cyrodil dont count.

wrlifeboil

Tandor wrote: »

On the subject of changing guild populations, this was always going to be an issue in a game that allowed you to join up to five guilds, thereby removing any semblance of loyalty, community or long-term viability, and where a major part of the incentive to join those guilds was to access the deeply flawed trading system. Most guilds don't serve the purpose in this game that they traditionally serve in other MMOs.

I don't think that guilds have the same draw that they used to as in the early mmos. Most players nowadays don't want to be locked into a guild. In the old school mmo days, you HAD to be in a guild and kiss the guild leader's *** to see certain content in the game. Players today won't put up with the crap that those players had to just to secure a raid spot or be in a good pvp guild. Not for free at least.

SFBryan18

They are in guilds from games that are not TES, and they want to turn this game into those. I am glad they are leaving. I hope this game moves toward TES more than MMO.

anakaki

Need more end content. Trials are way too easy. The difficult part is not to crash, bugg out etc. So luck is a big factor.

Additionaly, they should remove time until they atleast balanced the classes.

david271749

Kililin wrote: »

Sleepydan wrote: »

Meh. I found a couple rp guilds and once I started getting into it I'm having more fun than I have in a while.

Now imagine the fun to be had in a mmo game actually supporting role playing ...

Are there any you can recommend? @Kililin‌

Stratti

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.

1). Imbalances , Stamina and weapon builds not end game Viable , armor extremely in favor of light.Weapons extremely favor staves.

2). Trials , a lot can be said about them and nothing anyone has said seems to be enjoyable. People do not like the limited res, all it does is force people to break group reform and reset. the timer really means nothing. Having the PVP ultimate makes for a complete exploit and avoidance of mechanics, trial gear is garbage. you can craft anything better in game with 8 traits. no real reward for your end game content aside form a few sets.

3).Grouping and phasing makes for a horrible experience in frustration at times. not being able to help guildies with quests that you have already done in story is bad.

4). ( this one i don't agree with i like the system) Five ability slots and clunky targeting system many would like a few more abilities on their bar and an additional ultimate choice.

5) .VR has actually diluted your endgame and created a unwanted grind and in the process completely thined your end game content. there are no real 4 man's at VR 12 nor itemization to support it. craglorn is a messy exploit system that actually created a horrible community of man children.

6). There is less diversity in your current class system then would be in a very hard lined class restrictive system. its created a caster world were roles in end game consist of caster's . Tanking in general is a DPS role with a CC and a taunt.Mechanics and skill lvl is severly misguided way to simple of a role that borders the line of a DPS role way to much.

Funny thing is we all enjoyed the 1 -50 great fun!

Our differences on another thread aside thank you for your post.

I truly believe , although I am not there yet, a lot of the end game issues come from the elitist husk starting to form. I think real eso guilds who value each other will do trials as they were intended to be without elitism and cookie cutter set ups to smash trial timers.

I think that there is an element of the heroic raid guild mentality from Wow that is creeping there. I know that my guild has many many v12 and once we level more up through Craiglorn we will do trials . I would be shocked if officers only took current FOTM builds .

The bulk of the reasons that you have shared for me seems like complaints because people want an MMO the way they think it should be and cannot handle anything different.

Stratti

Shiroro wrote: »

No staircase for VR12s to climb. No legitimately fun way to climb the staircase to VR12 because you're forced to skip all of the alt zone content.

That's rubbish. I have done about 3 hrs of Zerg Anamoly with guildies . The rest has been following the journal . I'm up to east marsh at V6 vs v9 no issues. When I'm done 10 I will go back through the solo POI and get a guild group for world bosses and dolmen.

Some of my guildies rushed to v12 which is cool and there choice . We are not forced to skip anything at all and I regret skipping to 50 when I did.

Wifeaggro13

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.

1). Imbalances , Stamina and weapon builds not end game Viable , armor extremely in favor of light.Weapons extremely favor staves.

2). Trials , a lot can be said about them and nothing anyone has said seems to be enjoyable. People do not like the limited res, all it does is force people to break group reform and reset. the timer really means nothing. Having the PVP ultimate makes for a complete exploit and avoidance of mechanics, trial gear is garbage. you can craft anything better in game with 8 traits. no real reward for your end game content aside form a few sets.

3).Grouping and phasing makes for a horrible experience in frustration at times. not being able to help guildies with quests that you have already done in story is bad.

4). ( this one i don't agree with i like the system) Five ability slots and clunky targeting system many would like a few more abilities on their bar and an additional ultimate choice.

5) .VR has actually diluted your endgame and created a unwanted grind and in the process completely thined your end game content. there are no real 4 man's at VR 12 nor itemization to support it. craglorn is a messy exploit system that actually created a horrible community of man children.

6). There is less diversity in your current class system then would be in a very hard lined class restrictive system. its created a caster world were roles in end game consist of caster's . Tanking in general is a DPS role with a CC and a taunt.Mechanics and skill lvl is severly misguided way to simple of a role that borders the line of a DPS role way to much.

Funny thing is we all enjoyed the 1 -50 great fun!

Our differences on another thread aside thank you for your post.

I truly believe , although I am not there yet, a lot of the end game issues come from the elitist husk starting to form. I think real eso guilds who value each other will do trials as they were intended to be without elitism and cookie cutter set ups to smash trial timers.

I think that there is an element of the heroic raid guild mentality from Wow that is creeping there. I know that my guild has many many v12 and once we level more up through Craiglorn we will do trials . I would be shocked if officers only took current FOTM builds .

The bulk of the reasons that you have shared for me seems like complaints because people want an MMO the way they think it should be and cannot handle anything different.

Well some of the complaints are that is not what they marketed. like Caster builds are currently the only viable end game builds.
there are DPS checks in this game and most of them are un achievable by melee specs . yes they are complaints but they are legitimate and a very very wide body of people are all saying the same thing. from personal experience its actually the elitists that are staying and pushing through. And these complaints are mainly that the game was marketed with certain aspects are not there. mainly the play as you want . sorry but if you have not done VR trials delves in crag. and a few of the Vr dungeons do not allow for anything but casters in light armor then this would not be an experience you could re late too. this is called cookie cutter builds and its exactly what the devs said would not be the case, it is definately imbalanced. and a large protion of the population is at end game which would be considered V1 and beyond. two and a half months into a launch people hitting that is not elitists they are daily players that enjoyed the game until this point. elitists were V10 2 and a half weeks after launch.

SilverWF

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.
Pay2play system is way too hard

That's all you was need to wrote, instead of creating excuses.

Wifeaggro13

SilverWF wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.
Pay2play system is way too hard

That's all you was need to wrote, instead of creating excuses.

no where was subscription model ever mentioned and i don't recall anyone saying the were quitting because it was P2P . and diffculty was never an issue Mechanic exploits were.

Stratti

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.

1). Imbalances , Stamina and weapon builds not end game Viable , armor extremely in favor of light.Weapons extremely favor staves.

2). Trials , a lot can be said about them and nothing anyone has said seems to be enjoyable. People do not like the limited res, all it does is force people to break group reform and reset. the timer really means nothing. Having the PVP ultimate makes for a complete exploit and avoidance of mechanics, trial gear is garbage. you can craft anything better in game with 8 traits. no real reward for your end game content aside form a few sets.

3).Grouping and phasing makes for a horrible experience in frustration at times. not being able to help guildies with quests that you have already done in story is bad.

4). ( this one i don't agree with i like the system) Five ability slots and clunky targeting system many would like a few more abilities on their bar and an additional ultimate choice.

5) .VR has actually diluted your endgame and created a unwanted grind and in the process completely thined your end game content. there are no real 4 man's at VR 12 nor itemization to support it. craglorn is a messy exploit system that actually created a horrible community of man children.

6). There is less diversity in your current class system then would be in a very hard lined class restrictive system. its created a caster world were roles in end game consist of caster's . Tanking in general is a DPS role with a CC and a taunt.Mechanics and skill lvl is severly misguided way to simple of a role that borders the line of a DPS role way to much.

Funny thing is we all enjoyed the 1 -50 great fun!

Our differences on another thread aside thank you for your post.

I truly believe , although I am not there yet, a lot of the end game issues come from the elitist husk starting to form. I think real eso guilds who value each other will do trials as they were intended to be without elitism and cookie cutter set ups to smash trial timers.

I think that there is an element of the heroic raid guild mentality from Wow that is creeping there. I know that my guild has many many v12 and once we level more up through Craiglorn we will do trials . I would be shocked if officers only took current FOTM builds .

The bulk of the reasons that you have shared for me seems like complaints because people want an MMO the way they think it should be and cannot handle anything different.

Well some of the complaints are that is not what they marketed. like Caster builds are currently the only viable end game builds.
there are DPS checks in this game and most of them are un achievable by melee specs . yes they are complaints but they are legitimate and a very very wide body of people are all saying the same thing. from personal experience its actually the elitists that are staying and pushing through. And these complaints are mainly that the game was marketed with certain aspects are not there. mainly the play as you want . sorry but if you have not done VR trials delves in crag. and a few of the Vr dungeons do not allow for anything but casters in light armor then this would not be an experience you could re late too. this is called cookie cutter builds and its exactly what the devs said would not be the case, it is definately imbalanced. and a large protion of the population is at end game which would be considered V1 and beyond. two and a half months into a launch people hitting that is not elitists they are daily players that enjoyed the game until this point. elitists were V10 2 and a half weeks after launch.

Be real casters are the only viable end game dps

That is rubbish - what you need to say is current group leaders want to have caster dps because it is deemed better. No evidence whatsoever other than group think. I've watched a night blade carve up 3 mobs like tofu much faster
Than any caster

Fact 1 - we cannot access the data of other players dps, itemisation of anything for that matter

Fact 2 - most guilds that are true guilds are not doing trials yet so it is pug Frostmourne style

You can argue with me but I suggest finding a good guild that values it's members . Get into a guild run trial run. Stay away from the current crop of idiots who have pushed hard to hit trials

I have done vet Dungeouns but I'm at v6 so not the other stuff. Being a tank it's not really an issue for me. But I do enjoy theorycrafting , tables spreadsheet and we have none of that available here. We cannot even get a ratio on damage reduction. A v12 guildie and I were trying to but it involves actually getting hit and recording values.

Point is group leaders have no data. Zero. They are going off instinct. Many pulls are done badly from what I have heard. I've watched the trials on the stream and they were just lame zergfests by the look .

Tl;dr : I agree that people feel that way but it isn't based in fact but group think and assumption. We do not have access to the data to determine others dps let alone what is best in which scenario

coryevans_3b14_ESO

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

Curious. The guilds I am in are thriving and players I know aren't complaining about the end game. A few people on my friends list are also in growing guilds. Why are some guilds diminishing while others grow?

Guilds give up and the remains that actually stay in the game are joining others. We just took like 10 People cause their guild "died".

So the quantity of guilds in general is decreasing. And Guilds that are staying around are profiting alot from that by gaining the remaining players as new members.

But even with that. there are more people leaving than we can gain..

LOL I do love when people have 0 facts to back anything up.

AEnoch

That is rubbish - what you need to say is current group leaders want to have caster dps because it is deemed better. No evidence whatsoever other than group think. I've watched a night blade carve up 3 mobs like tofu much faster
Than any caster

That's burst DPS. Nightblades are sprinters when it comes to damage dealing. Burst DPS doesn't get far in trials. It's the sustained dps that's needed.

Wifeaggro13

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.

1). Imbalances , Stamina and weapon builds not end game Viable , armor extremely in favor of light.Weapons extremely favor staves.

2). Trials , a lot can be said about them and nothing anyone has said seems to be enjoyable. People do not like the limited res, all it does is force people to break group reform and reset. the timer really means nothing. Having the PVP ultimate makes for a complete exploit and avoidance of mechanics, trial gear is garbage. you can craft anything better in game with 8 traits. no real reward for your end game content aside form a few sets.

3).Grouping and phasing makes for a horrible experience in frustration at times. not being able to help guildies with quests that you have already done in story is bad.

4). ( this one i don't agree with i like the system) Five ability slots and clunky targeting system many would like a few more abilities on their bar and an additional ultimate choice.

5) .VR has actually diluted your endgame and created a unwanted grind and in the process completely thined your end game content. there are no real 4 man's at VR 12 nor itemization to support it. craglorn is a messy exploit system that actually created a horrible community of man children.

6). There is less diversity in your current class system then would be in a very hard lined class restrictive system. its created a caster world were roles in end game consist of caster's . Tanking in general is a DPS role with a CC and a taunt.Mechanics and skill lvl is severly misguided way to simple of a role that borders the line of a DPS role way to much.

Funny thing is we all enjoyed the 1 -50 great fun!

Our differences on another thread aside thank you for your post.

I truly believe , although I am not there yet, a lot of the end game issues come from the elitist husk starting to form. I think real eso guilds who value each other will do trials as they were intended to be without elitism and cookie cutter set ups to smash trial timers.

I think that there is an element of the heroic raid guild mentality from Wow that is creeping there. I know that my guild has many many v12 and once we level more up through Craiglorn we will do trials . I would be shocked if officers only took current FOTM builds .

The bulk of the reasons that you have shared for me seems like complaints because people want an MMO the way they think it should be and cannot handle anything different.

Well some of the complaints are that is not what they marketed. like Caster builds are currently the only viable end game builds.
there are DPS checks in this game and most of them are un achievable by melee specs . yes they are complaints but they are legitimate and a very very wide body of people are all saying the same thing. from personal experience its actually the elitists that are staying and pushing through. And these complaints are mainly that the game was marketed with certain aspects are not there. mainly the play as you want . sorry but if you have not done VR trials delves in crag. and a few of the Vr dungeons do not allow for anything but casters in light armor then this would not be an experience you could re late too. this is called cookie cutter builds and its exactly what the devs said would not be the case, it is definately imbalanced. and a large protion of the population is at end game which would be considered V1 and beyond. two and a half months into a launch people hitting that is not elitists they are daily players that enjoyed the game until this point. elitists were V10 2 and a half weeks after launch.

Be real casters are the only viable end game dps

That is rubbish - what you need to say is current group leaders want to have caster dps because it is deemed better. No evidence whatsoever other than group think. I've watched a night blade carve up 3 mobs like tofu much faster
Than any caster

Fact 1 - we cannot access the data of other players dps, itemisation of anything for that matter

Fact 2 - most guilds that are true guilds are not doing trials yet so it is pug Frostmourne style

You can argue with me but I suggest finding a good guild that values it's members . Get into a guild run trial run. Stay away from the current crop of idiots who have pushed hard to hit trials

I have done vet Dungeouns but I'm at v6 so not the other stuff. Being a tank it's not really an issue for me. But I do enjoy theorycrafting , tables spreadsheet and we have none of that available here. We cannot even get a ratio on damage reduction. A v12 guildie and I were trying to but it involves actually getting hit and recording values.

Point is group leaders have no data. Zero. They are going off instinct. Many pulls are done badly from what I have heard. I've watched the trials on the stream and they were just lame zergfests by the look .

Tl;dr : I agree that people feel that way but it isn't based in fact but group think and assumption. We do not have access to the data to determine others dps let alone what is best in which scenario

you obviously dont use add ons. and your admittedly not in end game . you dont think people use ddps add ons and talk amongst each others there are also outside progam that will post it. and two patches ago the info was shareable in the API. and pugs are only farming the first Boss in AA. the guilds that have it on famr and making videos aare using 8 DK casters 3 sorcs and 1 templar all light amror with staves. you seem highlyunresearched and uninformed to be throwing this out here . half the threads in the forums are about melee and caster imbalance.

Wifeaggro13

/delete

Drasn

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Unfortunately all Five of my guilds are seeing a mass exodus. Every single one has said the same thing as to why.

1). Imbalances , Stamina and weapon builds not end game Viable , armor extremely in favor of light.Weapons extremely favor staves.

2). Trials , a lot can be said about them and nothing anyone has said seems to be enjoyable. People do not like the limited res, all it does is force people to break group reform and reset. the timer really means nothing. Having the PVP ultimate makes for a complete exploit and avoidance of mechanics, trial gear is garbage. you can craft anything better in game with 8 traits. no real reward for your end game content aside form a few sets.

3).Grouping and phasing makes for a horrible experience in frustration at times. not being able to help guildies with quests that you have already done in story is bad.

4). ( this one i don't agree with i like the system) Five ability slots and clunky targeting system many would like a few more abilities on their bar and an additional ultimate choice.

5) .VR has actually diluted your endgame and created a unwanted grind and in the process completely thined your end game content. there are no real 4 man's at VR 12 nor itemization to support it. craglorn is a messy exploit system that actually created a horrible community of man children.

6). There is less diversity in your current class system then would be in a very hard lined class restrictive system. its created a caster world were roles in end game consist of caster's . Tanking in general is a DPS role with a CC and a taunt.Mechanics and skill lvl is severly misguided way to simple of a role that borders the line of a DPS role way to much.

Funny thing is we all enjoyed the 1 -50 great fun!

Our differences on another thread aside thank you for your post.

I truly believe , although I am not there yet, a lot of the end game issues come from the elitist husk starting to form. I think real eso guilds who value each other will do trials as they were intended to be without elitism and cookie cutter set ups to smash trial timers.

I think that there is an element of the heroic raid guild mentality from Wow that is creeping there. I know that my guild has many many v12 and once we level more up through Craiglorn we will do trials . I would be shocked if officers only took current FOTM builds .

The bulk of the reasons that you have shared for me seems like complaints because people want an MMO the way they think it should be and cannot handle anything different.

Well some of the complaints are that is not what they marketed. like Caster builds are currently the only viable end game builds.
there are DPS checks in this game and most of them are un achievable by melee specs . yes they are complaints but they are legitimate and a very very wide body of people are all saying the same thing. from personal experience its actually the elitists that are staying and pushing through. And these complaints are mainly that the game was marketed with certain aspects are not there. mainly the play as you want . sorry but if you have not done VR trials delves in crag. and a few of the Vr dungeons do not allow for anything but casters in light armor then this would not be an experience you could re late too. this is called cookie cutter builds and its exactly what the devs said would not be the case, it is definately imbalanced. and a large protion of the population is at end game which would be considered V1 and beyond. two and a half months into a launch people hitting that is not elitists they are daily players that enjoyed the game until this point. elitists were V10 2 and a half weeks after launch.

Be real casters are the only viable end game dps

That is rubbish - what you need to say is current group leaders want to have caster dps because it is deemed better. No evidence whatsoever other than group think. I've watched a night blade carve up 3 mobs like tofu much faster
Than any caster

Fact 1 - we cannot access the data of other players dps, itemisation of anything for that matter

Fact 2 - most guilds that are true guilds are not doing trials yet so it is pug Frostmourne style

You can argue with me but I suggest finding a good guild that values it's members . Get into a guild run trial run. Stay away from the current crop of idiots who have pushed hard to hit trials

I have done vet Dungeouns but I'm at v6 so not the other stuff. Being a tank it's not really an issue for me. But I do enjoy theorycrafting , tables spreadsheet and we have none of that available here. We cannot even get a ratio on damage reduction. A v12 guildie and I were trying to but it involves actually getting hit and recording values.

Point is group leaders have no data. Zero. They are going off instinct. Many pulls are done badly from what I have heard. I've watched the trials on the stream and they were just lame zergfests by the look .

Tl;dr : I agree that people feel that way but it isn't based in fact but group think and assumption. We do not have access to the data to determine others dps let alone what is best in which scenario

I like how you enjoy theorycrafting, yet come to the conclusion that the people who have theorycrafted are completely wrong. You say we have no spreadsheets, yet people have made spreadsheets and documented the imbalance.

Fact 1- People share their numbers and try different builds,abilities, and equipment over countless hours.

Fact 2- The "true" guilds are the ones doing trials already. The "slow leveling casual" guilds are the ones not doing trials because they are too busy sniffing the flowers.

Group leaders are not going off instinct, even though it easy to do so. You don't need a dps meter to see when someone is a baddie. You don't need dps meters to see that abilities are subpar or exceptional.

TLDR: You obviously have no idea why or how theorycrafting is done. Sometimes it actually involves having to collect the data yourself (and I assure you, it's there.) Also you will have to be somewhat competent, and you sure as hell can't leave your maths at home.

anakaki

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Fact 1 - we cannot access the data of other players dps, itemisation of anything for that matter

Fact - You need to stop using fact when it's not a fact.

It wasn't long ago they added API. They have now removed it again but it's sufficient to just look at a skill to know the useage and if it's good or not. In fact, I can spot a bad player without knowing his dps.

Wifeaggro13 wrote:

Fact 2 - most guilds that are true guilds are not doing trials yet so it is pug Frostmourne style

This is simply not true. If thats the case for you, fine, but again, the fact of the matter is this isn't a fact.

Wifeaggro13 wrote:

Point is group leaders have no data. Zero. They are going off instinct. Many pulls are done badly from what I have heard. I've watched the trials on the stream and they were just lame zergfests by the look .

Again, not true. So there is no point here. API and the information we share within runs compare. I've cleared trials countless times and there's no zerging. We are pretty organized and we do very well with no wipes and on good times.

Wifeaggro13 wrote:

Tl;dr : I agree that people feel that way but it isn't based in fact but group think and assumption. We do not have access to the data to determine others dps let alone what is best in which scenario

You keep saying this, but yeah, we do.

Cogo

I think the top reasons for most guilds in most games to "loose" members is because of how they invite. If you start a guild, invite everyone who can, and within a few days, have 500 or even within 2-3 months have 500, then its normal nature. People quit, don't play, change guild, for lots of reasons.

The guilds that grows, are MOSTLY those who have some sort of invite process, which builds a community within the guild.

When I started our guild, the same day of the 5 day early access. Me and my friends from other games/real life, already had a webpage, talked and decided what alliance to be in and what type of guild we wanted to be.

We aimed to be 20 members or so. Because the base of the guild is trust in every guild member. To group, talk, items, whatever.

We have an open guild bank for all members. Also a very well working tradeskill system where for example I as a blacksmith, makes a lot of daggers, put em in bank, another member who MAIN tradeskill (You can only have 2 main tradeskills and use the guildbank for it in our guild) takes out the dagger, DC them, create new and put in bank.

Somehow we grown to 60 members. Of course, we have members who decided to not keep playing, but that always happens in MMO.

We grow VERY slowly. And the recruits who joins our guild, want to join OUR guild...not any guild. Before you even get an invite, you have to spend some time with us, before membership.

Sure, there been a lot of players who told me off after 5 mins that they cant be arsed and dont wanna join cause this is taking to long.....good, then we didnt get an impatient person.....

Every week, our guild grows. SLOW, but still grows.

Cogo

Oh yeah, I am not a hardcore RP player. But I do play my character like character it is. In my case, an ORC, who wants to be in the front, take a lot of damage and trust his group to kill the targets. I am a heavy tank.

One of the guilds I am in, is a RP guild, and even if I do not take part of their events, its very interesting to even read guildchat, where people talk as everyone was in Tamriel and in character.

For example, I get some disrespect (only playing, nothing personal), because I am an orc, pledge my honor to the Pact and fight against my own kind.

I have a story about how this come to be.

I was against 5 guild in the start. But its a very good feature, because guilds can be so many different things.

I only have 1 MAIN guild, thats where my friends are, my interest are, etc. But other guild enhances the game. At least for me.

Wifeaggro13

anakaki wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Fact 1 - we cannot access the data of other players dps, itemisation of anything for that matter

Fact - You need to stop using fact when it's not a fact.

It wasn't long ago they added API. They have now removed it again but it's sufficient to just look at a skill to know the useage and if it's good or not. In fact, I can spot a bad player without knowing his dps.

Wifeaggro13 wrote:

Fact 2 - most guilds that are true guilds are not doing trials yet so it is pug Frostmourne style

This is simply not true. If thats the case for you, fine, but again, the fact of the matter is this isn't a fact.

Wifeaggro13 wrote:

Point is group leaders have no data. Zero. They are going off instinct. Many pulls are done badly from what I have heard. I've watched the trials on the stream and they were just lame zergfests by the look .

Again, not true. So there is no point here. API and the information we share within runs compare. I've cleared trials countless times and there's no zerging. We are pretty organized and we do very well with no wipes and on good times.

Wifeaggro13 wrote:

Tl;dr : I agree that people feel that way but it isn't based in fact but group think and assumption. We do not have access to the data to determine others dps let alone what is best in which scenario

You keep saying this, but yeah, we do.

i dont know how that happened but i wrote none of those things that was a response to me trying to point out to the gentlemen there are add on's that allow us to see dps optimize rotations and at one point the info was share able. i agree with everything you have just said