Proof Dropped gear > Crafted by HUGE difference

UserT123

Many of the crated glyphs arent even receiving the benefit from "infused" trait.

BrassRazoo

If hard working crafters are made redundant, no sooner will a cash shop appear to replace them.
No that this is a bad thing. but just saying to replace all that skill a cash shop is about the easiest way to go.

Veshal

So I'm guessing you upgraded the dropped gear through crafting?

Fuzzylumpkins

Maverick827 wrote: »

RomedyMC wrote: »

I feel like you kind of missed the point of crafting.

I feel like Zenimax kind of missed the point of crafting.

I feel like Zenimax kind of missed the point of everything.*

Fixed

Comaetilico

well the fact that at the moment the best armor & weapon setup for dps is light armor + resto staff... and the fact that resto staff drop are all for healing/support... and that the best light armor drop are only usefull for one member in the group (wise mage and worm cult)...

makes crafted set the best choice for any other member of the group... in particular set like twlight embrace, night mother and willo path are the most usefull for caster dps... a 10% crit chance... couple with the additional 6% crit chance from the crit trait of the staff... the only dropped set that could bring such a result is the "imperium" pvp set... but unfortunately it comes with Destro staff only... so you get a 5% crit chance (you have to spaw out one of those 2 set in order to get the bonus from imperium... so you get a 10% in place of 5%) against the 10% bonus damage from the resto staff passives... and you also have to find the RIGHT destro staff since it can come with every trait and you have to find the crit one or you will end up with even less crit that the crafted set...


about the enchant... the problem lies in the armor reducing one... and probably the armor increase (but I don't hink that anyone would really use armor increase instead of spellpower/weaponpower or reduce cost on jewels...) stat increase are almost indentical and is what is mostly used on armor... also to really see the difference you have to drop the item in its purple version... if you get the green one and upgrade it to gold... or craft it and directly enchant it with gold the difference become inexistant (and for some it is even in favor of the crafted one)


so no... aside from a few exception dropped items are not superior to crafted ones... they may have some higher value (for example named dropped weapon have a few more point of weapon damage... but we'r talinking about 2 point here...) but have overall lesser usefulness when it comes to set bonus or possible combination


even when you go and make a comparison between wise mage (the actual best in slot for caster dps... and rember that you want only one of those in your group/raid) and the 5% crit rate set + additional bonus (either armor reduction or 10% increased incoming healing) you get down to a 5% increased damage (that is what test gave as the effect of the wise mage) against a 2,5% increased damage (the effect of a 5% crit with base crit damage... if you increase crit damage this will increase) + additional ultimate generation (crit generate more ultimate that normal hit)... they come pretty close and if you have some additioal bonus on crit (like critical surge for sorc for example) you may even end up having more usefulness out of the crit set rahter than the wise mage...

R0M2K

I dont see the problem here:

Dropped gear should be always better than crafted gear because:

1- you have a chance to get it
2- gives incentives to raid/pvp

In fact dropped gear should be buffed even more.

Gillysan

OP misinformation since it was dropped gear upgraded to Legendary.

My one concern is why do they allow anyone to upgrade and not someone who actually leveled up a craft? This part really chaps my hide.

Comaetilico

Gillysan wrote: »

OP misinformation since it was dropped gear upgraded to Legendary.

My one concern is why do they allow anyone to upgrade and not someone who actually leveled up a craft? This part really chaps my hide.

because if you havent upped your craft you can do it but it cost you more than twice ^^'

without ranking up and buyng the apropriate perk upgrading a weapon from purple to gold consume 20 gold material...

with full point in the perk it only cost 8 gold materials ^^'

going at 2k per gold material (a resonable price... you can buy them between 1,5 and 3k each) the difference in price is from 40k down to 16k... a 24k gold difference per purple to gold conversion... if it's just a single weapon... well you can do it by yourself spending a little more... but if you want a full gold armor... that will be 24k * 7 = 168k gold more than someone with full crafting perk ^^' yes... you can do it.... but do you really want to waste that much money?

UserT123

Gillysan wrote: »

OP misinformation since it was dropped gear upgraded to Legendary.

My one concern is why do they allow anyone to upgrade and not someone who actually leveled up a craft? This part really chaps my hide.

Not sure which part is misinformation... the part where I showed 2 items (1 crafted, and one looted in PvP) to compare, or the part where they have both been upgraded to equal qualities (for fair comparison).

As you said "they allow ANYONE to upgrade" even if they literally have zero points in crafting and are at level 1 blacksmithing, they can upgrade to legendary. Meaning you aren't using "crafting" at all to upgrade. It is true it would make it cheaper, but that still doesn't change the fact that you do NOT need a crafter to obtain 1 of those weapons (or to upgrade it).

Or did I misunderstand your question? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Gillysan

The dropped item wasn't Legendary when it dropped. It was green, blue or purple. The process of improving is a function of crafting, as they have defined it in this game. The final stats can be argued over but that doesn't change that you crafted it to Legendary from it's original.

Itoq

I haven't had very top gear or crafted much since UO but it seems to me that crafted gear should reach the same level as dropped gear but only when one of the ingredients is dropped by a similar difficulty mob that drops the finished gear. And that the rarity of the ingredient is at about the same or very slightly better drop rate than the finished dropped gear.

RazzPitazz

I have a question. When was the enchantment placed on the crafted item? As I understand, enchantment agfects will also increase while upgrading items.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

I feel its the other way around but oke, this is a example that it might be better.. but mostly Crafted gear > dropped ( except trials )

Maverick827

RomedyMC wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

RomedyMC wrote: »

I feel like you kind of missed the point of crafting.

I feel like Zenimax kind of missed the point of crafting.

@ Maverick827 - Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the point of crafting, then?

To...craft things?

It's not called Upgrading, after all.

Anastasia

Gillysan wrote: »

OP misinformation since it was dropped gear upgraded to Legendary.

My one concern is why do they allow anyone to upgrade and not someone who actually leveled up a craft? This part really chaps my hide.

---

Yep. ;o(

Anastasia

Gillysan wrote: »

The dropped item wasn't Legendary when it dropped. It was green, blue or purple. The process of improving is a function of crafting, as they have defined it in this game. The final stats can be argued over but that doesn't change that you crafted it to Legendary from it's original.

---

Yea - except most people who read pre-launch interviews and even into the early days of the game firmly believed that those CRAFTED UPGRADES TO LEGENDARY would HAVE to be made by vetted/capped/leveled CRAFTSMEN/WOMEN...

NOT that Joe Smoe or Elly Kelly could buy some gold from the local *** seller and BUY the ingredients needed for the upgrade and ANYONE could then do said LEGENDARY upgrades. ;o[

Hciliata

To OP--the only thing I wonder is, have you actually confirmed that the "-1240 armor" enchant really causes that much armor reduction in combat? The reason I wonder is that I have seen previews that lie, eg when crafting bonus sets with infused sometimes the set bonus will scale up in the preview but won't actually be scaled up on the finished item. Famously the achievements bug is just a "display" problem supposedly, the zeros don't reflect the hidden reality that your achievements are still "there" somehow. Both of these cases are slightly different than yours I admit, but I still would be very curious to see if your dropped item really has that -1200 effect in combat, or is just a "display" lie. Please test and report, sorry if I missed a reference to that in this thread.

MrGhosty

I've taken my time leveling and from start up until my current Lvl 40 Crafted stuff is 90% of the time the superior path. With careful planning you can essentially get two trait bonuses by wearing armor from two different sets, add in something like the base traits that further allow you to tailor the armor to your build specifically I wouldn't exactly say they weren't telling the truth. Drops should have super special items in them because it's a rush, everyone can get access to them either by doing the quest/dungeon/pvp or by buying the item from the person who did. All things feed into the ecosystem.

That said, I believe Crafting needs a major overhaul. I would like to see a crafting guild like Fighters or Mages guild that offers quests to get special item ingredients and this guild wouldn't be open to anyone who hadn't done serious investment in the particular skill line. We also need more customization options on the armor, be it through dyes, ability to learn how to craft alternate versions of gear, the ability to apply two traits to a weapon or clothing via expensive skill point system.

My biggest problem with crafting atm isn't how much of an edge it gives me over dropped loot, but that there is really no way for crafters to be "special" A crafter should be able to generally spec into multiple avenues of craft but at a certain point only be able to specialize in one thing, stuff like unique weapons, armor variants, ability to craft trait sets from any crafting station, or whatever.

I love the combat and questing in this game, but what really catches my interest is the crafting, so the idea of essentially making crafting a two tiered system makes sense to me. Tier 1 is what we have now, easy for everyone to get access to all the basic functions and have a Tier 2 for the dedicated crafters that lets them specialize and do some cool things.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

if dropped gear was better then crafted there just wouldn't be any more incentive to craft your own gear... we would all look like silly clones. If I want to wear khajiity style with specific enchant I should have to hunt for an underpowered piece just because I want that style. Crafted gear will ALWAYS be superior to dropped gear for the whole reason that good crafted gear takes time money and dedication to do.

Laerania_ESO

Value 80, at least you can sell a bunch of those crafted swords to a npc vendor and get more gold for horse food.

RPG... I never thought I could see the day when "R" means ridiculous.

Gillysan

R0M2K wrote: »

I dont see the problem here:

Dropped gear should be always better than crafted gear because:

1- you have a chance to get it
2- gives incentives to raid/pvp

In fact dropped gear should be buffed even more.

I disagree. Also, this is not what they have been saying all along regarding crafting. I'll bit my tongue on the next comment because it is not a nice comment.

Hciliata wrote: »

To OP--the only thing I wonder is, have you actually confirmed that the "-1240 armor" enchant really causes that much armor reduction in combat? The reason I wonder is that I have seen previews that lie, eg when crafting bonus sets with infused sometimes the set bonus will scale up in the preview but won't actually be scaled up on the finished item. Famously the achievements bug is just a "display" problem supposedly, the zeros don't reflect the hidden reality that your achievements are still "there" somehow. Both of these cases are slightly different than yours I admit, but I still would be very curious to see if your dropped item really has that -1200 effect in combat, or is just a "display" lie. Please test and report, sorry if I missed a reference to that in this thread.

This game has a lot of bugs. The obvious ones are being worked on but the harder to notice ones really worry me. There have already been some display bugs fixed. I wonder how long it will take for us to muddle through these before they are uncovered and fixed.

The one thing that bothers me the most is that any fool & his gold can make Legendary. No dedicated crafter needed.

Razzak

Another promise they failed to deliver on. Or another example of politically ambiguous statement.

KerinKor

Food4Thought wrote: »

Is it just me or is this conversation starting to make everybody's head hurt?

It's end-game gear, I don't do end-game so it doesn't matter to me .. let the phat lewt collectors argue over how OP 1% is, IDK.

Rhazmuz

Yea crafting is starting to look like a bore and useless side thing.. First we spend months and months to learn all traits for the different armor pieces, only to be able to craft with sets that are half as interesting as the ones we find doing PvE or PvP.

On top, the values on crafted enchants seem to be blown away by the dropped ones as well???

How about you, @Zenimax take a little look at this issue, and show crafters some love? Start by making more interesting crafted sets, and buff enchanting so VR10-12 crafted enchants are actually the best in the game.

Sendarya

as for anyone being able to upgrade, if you do not bother to learn traits, people can bring up plain levels pretty fast just to get the temper reduction skill up 2/3 and upgrade their own gear. Again, making people who dedicated themselves to the craft and spent months learning all those traits, unessential.

Gilvoth

kinda not good for crafters, sory to say

cris13crossb16_ESO

From looking at those images it seem more like there is an issue with the enchanting profession. The blacksmithing looks to be as Zeni promised, the sword is slightly (yes I know, 2) better than the dropped one.
I wonder is this is a bug or an oversight, either way I hope Zeni see this and make adjustments to enchanting to make it comparable with the dropped glyphs.

Pmarsico9

Resolution:

Instead of dropping gear drop Yellow and Purple reagents as well as allow for special sets to be crafted on forges following bosses.

I agree this needs looked into and I disagree this game should provide anything better via one avenue or the other.

FunkyBudda

RIP crafting, no point in continue to invest when dropped gears are better.

psychoman88ub17_ESO

Censorious wrote: »

Are you telling me that the time and effort I've spent raising Enchanting and Clothing to max level has been completely wasted?

I'm PvP player - I don't do dungeons at all and there's no dropped loot in PvP. So apparently I'm going to be unable to compete.

That's another nail in the coffin for me.

There r sets you can buy for pvp