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Proof Dropped gear > Crafted by HUGE difference

UserT123
UserT123
Soul Shriven
I'm not even going to waste time explaining my reasons... the pictures should do it justice... I certainly hope for once a dev actually looks at (and responds) these posts.

crafted item with legendary max level armor reduction glyph:
i580ib.jpg


dropped (pvp) item with same enchant. Also legendary:
28brvdj.jpg


This really makes crafted gear worthless. Not only is the glyph godly (Non-crafted) in comparison but it also opens up extra slots for other sets because it only requires 3 pieces.

Please anyone with legitimate arguments, for either side of this issue, post comments and screenshots of other comparisons. This is getting old.
Edited by UserT123 on May 28, 2014 7:58AM
  • ArRashid
    ArRashid
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    Wait, so there is an actual Akaviri (non-craftable) style? Or is that just the imagination of the addon's owner?

    On the subject:
    I think our craftable glyphs were really nerfed somewhen along the way, and they forgot to change pre-made items to reflect that change.
  • UserT123
    UserT123
    Soul Shriven
    ArRashid wrote: »
    Wait, so there is an actual Akaviri (non-craftable) style? Or is that just the imagination of the addon's owner?

    On the subject:
    I think our craftable glyphs were really nerfed somewhen along the way, and they forgot to change pre-made items to reflect that change.

    The style is definitely a unique look, different than what is craftable. Akaviri or not, I don't know for sure.

    As for the "change to pre-made" items, all these items were made/upgraded today. Nothing is from pre patch, including glyphs. (not sure if I understood your comment).
  • RangerChad
    RangerChad
    ✭✭✭
    That's one of the most OP enchantments I have ever seen... lol Yeah dropped gear has always been superior from what I have seen in this game. VR zone dungeons have some decent set bonuses I cannot find matches for out in the world. I understand it gives people reason to grind a dungeon for a set though. However there is no decent alternative for a crafting master who has 90% of their skill points in crafting. The difference is ease of access (crafted) and random, possibly time consuming dungeon/ mob farming (dropped).
  • UserT123
    UserT123
    Soul Shriven
    RangerChad wrote: »
    That's one of the most OP enchantments I have ever seen... lol Yeah dropped gear has always been superior from what I have seen in this game. VR zone dungeons have some decent set bonuses I cannot find matches for out in the world. I understand it gives people reason to grind a dungeon for a set though. However there is no decent alternative for a crafting master who has 90% of their skill points in crafting. The difference is ease of access (crafted) and random, possibly time consuming dungeon/ mob farming (dropped).

    That would be fine with me if it weren't for the fact that players were told from the beginning (even before release) that "the best gear in the game will come from crafters"... unless that was a statement strictly in regards to all items must be upgraded to legendary by crafting, then this was a huge spit in the face to players. If this was intended to be Zenimax's way of telling players crafted gear will be better... then they should really adjust the stats/sets on all gear in the game, because as of right now crafted gear is inferior.
    Censorious wrote: »
    Are you telling me that the time and effort I've spent raising Enchanting and Clothing to max level has been completely wasted?

    I'm PvP player - I don't do dungeons at all and there's no dropped loot in PvP. So apparently I'm going to be unable to compete.

    That's another nail in the coffin for me.

    The PvP "dropped" sword I posted is looted in pvp, not pve. You can obtain this item by doing nothing but pvp; Either in the gear boxes that they mail to you (if you are insanely lucky) or if you pay enormous amounts of AP.

  • LonePirate
    LonePirate
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    ✭✭✭
    The emailed Rewards for the Worthy PVP chests seem to be tied to the accumulation of Alliance Points during the hourly recalculation of leaderboard points. If you have earned a sufficient number of points for the time period, you will receive one. I have also noticed I will occasionally receive one a short period after turning in one of the four mission board quests or a scroll quest. Of course, those all reward AP so that is probably why.
  • RomedyMC
    RomedyMC
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    That looks like a high-end PvP reward to me. In any MMO I have played the high-end rewards have always been very very nice. Think the Grand Marshal's weapons in vanilla WoW.

    That said, this would be excellent for PvE as well. It gives some incentive to players, like me, who abhor PvP in today's world.

    I'd be interested to see if the dropped armor is also above the crafted armor. I can get behind the idea of high-end weapons being better than a crafted weapon. What about the armor?
  • Azarul
    Azarul
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    Did this item drop legendary, or was it upgraded from green,blue, or purple? As I understood it there would be no legendary drops.
  • liquid_wolf
    liquid_wolf
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    The item was upgraded to Legendary.

    The Covenant's set has been absolutely FANTASTIC from the PvP rewards I've gotten.

    Hands down, it is my go-to set when I need to replace something.

    Probably does need to be adjusted/fixed to be more in-line with what can be crafted.
  • Liquid_Time
    Liquid_Time
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    Wow.. Just wow. Basically crafting is useless other then creating some basic quick sets to avoid repairs as you grind. Once the desired level is hit, respect and never touch crafting again.. What a sad site this it.

    Add something that can allow crafting to be in par with drops/AP items..

    I mean people are going to grind for the exp in dungeons anyways.. Why should that be one of the few ways to obtain the best gear? Simply add a bonus to items that are created by craters, so there is a true reason for crafting. At this rate there will be so many unneeded high level mats around that the prices will really low.

    Just my opinion..
    ¸.•¨)
    ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
    (¸.•´ (¸.•`
    Liquid_Time'*-.¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-•-.¸_¸.-••¤
    ╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
       IGN: Liquid Past || Rank: V14 || Class: Nightblade || World Skill: Vampire
    ╚═══════════════════════════════════════════════════╝
  • leandro.800ub17_ESO
    leandro.800ub17_ESO
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    Lets say a player has 2500 armor.
    With crafted you can reduce by 600 each 4s and more 500 (chance)= 1100
    With drooped its 1240 each 4s

    Its a chance gain plus 140 difference so i think its ok considering someone could have it without going to dungeons (also its a chance to have it drooped remember)
    Still good craft in my opiniion
  • Gisgo
    Gisgo
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    I dont know i love my crafted gear and i wouldnt take anything else, maybe its just a matter of class, but hunding rage + night's mother is a good combo for me and its 100% crafted and its the only way to mix and match infused and impenetrable correctly.


    Btw the crafted great sword does more damage :|
    Edited by Gisgo on May 28, 2014 4:51PM
  • Sendarya
    Sendarya
    ✭✭✭
    Well, this sucks. But to be fair, it is specifically the ENCHANT that sucks. The actual crafted sword alone is superior. The set bonus is confusing though.

    But yes, it appears that when they said that crafted stuff would be the best in the game, they meant we would just be upgrading drops.

    Are these things BoP? If so, then we REALLY are screwed, as people will just level crafting themselves to upgrade their own gear. If not, at least your skills will be needed to upgrade stuff.
    Owner of the Traveling Tavern, serving superior and consummate foods and drinks for all your leveling needs! :p
    The Traveling Tavern is now closed, until veteran loot tables and rare food mats are fixed. I am very sorry to all my loyal customers!
  • UserT123
    UserT123
    Soul Shriven
    Lets say a player has 2500 armor.
    With crafted you can reduce by 600 each 4s and more 500 (chance)= 1100
    With drooped its 1240 each 4s

    Its a chance gain plus 140 difference so i think its ok considering someone could have it without going to dungeons (also its a chance to have it drooped remember)
    Still good craft in my opiniion

    I am assuming your extra 500 (chance) armor reduction is coming from the set being night mothers? This implies that you are comparing the 1240 armor reduction enchant on the pvp sword to the the 600 enchant + 3 pieces of gear on the pve. In order to get armor reduction even close to a single pvp enchant is to have 3 pieces of gear with a given set... not really a good argument for the sake of things being balanced.
  • Food4Thought
    Food4Thought
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    Is it just me or is this conversation starting to make everybody's head hurt?
  • seanolan
    seanolan
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    When did they make it possible to craft VR12 weapons?
  • Gisgo
    Gisgo
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    When Craglorn and VR12 went live.
  • Kronosphere
    Kronosphere
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    crafting needs actual rare mats other than the improvement items. otherwise if they make crafting really good u can just insta get the best gear. they should release super rare items required for sets or something
    ~House Indoril~
    Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.

  • Ragnafrak
    Ragnafrak
    ✭✭
    It's not that the best gear in the game comes from crafters, it's that crafters have a role in making the best gear in the game.

    It was always stated that crafted gear will be "numerically" better at the same level as dropped gear; however, dropped gear can have unique enchants.

    Drops with insane enchants like this will exist, but this does not mean that crafters are not necessary. The role of crafters is to become able to apply the upgrades those drops to get them from green to blue to purple to yellow.

    This way, PvE players still have something to grind for, if they want, and crafters will always have a role to play in end-game gear, whether it be by crafting numerically superior items or by having the skill level necessary to upgrade dropped items that players may want to use due to unique enchantments.

    IMHO, if there is an issue, it is that crafted sets still have a way to go before they are on par with dropped set bonuses.

  • Gisgo
    Gisgo
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    Pretty much anyone can upgrade gear, there is no need for a crafter, its just more expensive because you need more upgrade mats.

    This said, crafted gear is already good, easily available, and fully customizable when it comes to traits.
    Eventually they have to add new, and possibly better, crafted sets, but i think crafted/dropped gear is balanced as it is.
    If dropped gear didnt have anything special it would be junk good for deconstruction.
    Edited by Gisgo on May 29, 2014 3:17PM
  • RylukShouja
    RylukShouja
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    Ragnafrak wrote: »
    It's not that the best gear in the game comes from crafters, it's that crafters have a role in making the best gear in the game.

    It was always stated that crafted gear will be "numerically" better at the same level as dropped gear; however, dropped gear can have unique enchants.

    Drops with insane enchants like this will exist, but this does not mean that crafters are not necessary. The role of crafters is to become able to apply the upgrades those drops to get them from green to blue to purple to yellow.

    This way, PvE players still have something to grind for, if they want, and crafters will always have a role to play in end-game gear, whether it be by crafting numerically superior items or by having the skill level necessary to upgrade dropped items that players may want to use due to unique enchantments.

    IMHO, if there is an issue, it is that crafted sets still have a way to go before they are on par with dropped set bonuses.

    While I mostly agree with this, the sheer disparity between the two enchants needs to be looked at. More than double the armour reduction does not swap nicely for two points of weapon damage.

    Whether crafted armour is "the best" or not, it should at least come close...if you are crafting a legendary greatsword and putting a legendary enchantment on it, you should have slightly higher base damage and slightly lower enchantment effect. Like 1000 armour reduction vs 1240. The enchant should not literally double in effect...
  • Anastasia
    Anastasia
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    UserT123 wrote: »
    ...

    That would be fine with me if it weren't for the fact that players were told from the beginning (even before release) that "the best gear in the game will come from crafters"... unless that was a statement strictly in regards to all items must be upgraded to legendary by crafting, then this was a huge spit in the face to players. If this was intended to be Zenimax's way of telling players crafted gear will be better... then they should really adjust the stats/sets on all gear in the game, because as of right now crafted gear is inferior.


    Yes. That is the literal, exact wording used in many pre-launch interviews and streams. Best gear in the game will come from crafters UPGRADING various loot and/or drops; upgraded to legendary by crafters. Whether one wants to twiddle about with is it realllllly crafted is the best, or is upgrading reallllly crafting makes no difference>

    The end result is the most fabulous crafted and the most fabulous dropped gear can still be 'improved' by.......regular adventurers running through dungeons? ...by regular adventurers farming, stalking, fixating, obsessing on particular mobs? No.

    NO. The better than, best available, most umpteenth maxed stats available on gear / weapons/ whatever is/will be available ONLY if a Master or Mistress Crafter UPGRADES it. Which means = Crafted => is zee BEST.

    Master or Mistress Crafter = player who has put in the effort, time and dedication to becoming the best in a particular craft.

    Do we know already ALL craftable upgrades which will become available for craftspersons in the AZ's or other upcoming content? Not yet. So, plans that include avenues for our Craftspeople to continue in the future to be able to UPGRADE loot/gear/items are still yet to be seen, yes? Doesn't mean those paths/traits/abilities aren't coming.

    *Bandages horse and administers generous ampule of Moonsugar...
    Edited by Anastasia on May 29, 2014 4:25PM
  • Anastasia
    Anastasia
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ragnafrak wrote: »
    It's not that the best gear in the game comes from crafters, it's that crafters have a role in making the best gear in the game.

    It was always stated that crafted gear will be "numerically" better at the same level as dropped gear; however, dropped gear can have unique enchants.

    Drops with insane enchants like this will exist, but this does not mean that crafters are not necessary. The role of crafters is to become able to apply the upgrades those drops to get them from green to blue to purple to yellow.

    This way, PvE players still have something to grind for, if they want, and crafters will always have a role to play in end-game gear, whether it be by crafting numerically superior items or by having the skill level necessary to upgrade dropped items that players may want to use due to unique enchantments.

    IMHO, if there is an issue, it is that crafted sets still have a way to go before they are on par with dropped set bonuses.


    Thanks Ragnafrak - your post brings clarity to the mudpool herein. Very well explained.

  • RomedyMC
    RomedyMC
    ✭✭✭
    RomedyMC wrote: »
    I feel like you kind of missed the point of crafting.
    I feel like Zenimax kind of missed the point of crafting.

    @ Maverick827 - Perhaps you could enlighten us as to the point of crafting, then?

  • RylukShouja
    RylukShouja
    ✭✭✭
    Anastasia wrote: »
    UserT123 wrote: »
    ...

    That would be fine with me if it weren't for the fact that players were told from the beginning (even before release) that "the best gear in the game will come from crafters"... unless that was a statement strictly in regards to all items must be upgraded to legendary by crafting, then this was a huge spit in the face to players. If this was intended to be Zenimax's way of telling players crafted gear will be better... then they should really adjust the stats/sets on all gear in the game, because as of right now crafted gear is inferior.


    Yes. That is the literal, exact wording used in many pre-launch interviews and streams. Best gear in the game will come from crafters UPGRADING various loot and/or drops; upgraded to legendary by crafters. Whether one wants to twiddle about with is it realllllly crafted is the best, or is upgrading reallllly crafting makes no difference>

    The end result is the most fabulous crafted and the most fabulous dropped gear can still be 'improved' by.......regular adventurers running through dungeons? ...by regular adventurers farming, stalking, fixating, obsessing on particular mobs? No.

    NO. The better than, best available, most umpteenth maxed stats available on gear / weapons/ whatever is/will be available ONLY if a Master or Mistress Crafter UPGRADES it. Which means = Crafted => is zee BEST.

    Master or Mistress Crafter = player who has put in the effort, time and dedication to becoming the best in a particular craft.

    Do we know already ALL craftable upgrades which will become available for craftspersons in the AZ's or other upcoming content? Not yet. So, plans that include avenues for our Craftspeople to continue in the future to be able to UPGRADE loot/gear/items are still yet to be seen, yes? Doesn't mean those paths/traits/abilities aren't coming.

    *Bandages horse and administers generous ampule of Moonsugar...

    Except that that's not true. Literally anyone can upgrade any item to legendary. The difference is a few gold coins for some legendary mats.
  • seanolan
    seanolan
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    Yeah, upgrading from purple to gold is expensive no matter what, but anyone CAN do it. And anyone can extract golds from ores over enough time.
  • Anastasia
    Anastasia
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    Anastasia wrote: »
    UserT123 wrote: »
    ...

    That would be fine with me if it weren't for the fact that players were told from the beginning (even before release) that "the best gear in the game will come from crafters"... unless that was a statement strictly in regards to all items must be upgraded to legendary by crafting, then this was a huge spit in the face to players. If this was intended to be Zenimax's way of telling players crafted gear will be better... then they should really adjust the stats/sets on all gear in the game, because as of right now crafted gear is inferior.


    Yes. That is the literal, exact wording used in many pre-launch interviews and streams. Best gear in the game will come from crafters UPGRADING various loot and/or drops; upgraded to legendary by crafters. Whether one wants to twiddle about with is it realllllly crafted is the best, or is upgrading reallllly crafting makes no difference>

    The end result is the most fabulous crafted and the most fabulous dropped gear can still be 'improved' by.......regular adventurers running through dungeons? ...by regular adventurers farming, stalking, fixating, obsessing on particular mobs? No.

    NO. The better than, best available, most umpteenth maxed stats available on gear / weapons/ whatever is/will be available ONLY if a Master or Mistress Crafter UPGRADES it. Which means = Crafted => is zee BEST.

    Master or Mistress Crafter = player who has put in the effort, time and dedication to becoming the best in a particular craft.

    Do we know already ALL craftable upgrades which will become available for craftspersons in the AZ's or other upcoming content? Not yet. So, plans that include avenues for our Craftspeople to continue in the future to be able to UPGRADE loot/gear/items are still yet to be seen, yes? Doesn't mean those paths/traits/abilities aren't coming.

    *Bandages horse and administers generous ampule of Moonsugar...

    Except that that's not true. Literally anyone can upgrade any item to legendary. The difference is a few gold coins for some legendary mats.
    Anastasia wrote: »
    UserT123 wrote: »
    ...

    That would be fine with me if it weren't for the fact that players were told from the beginning (even before release) that "the best gear in the game will come from crafters"... unless that was a statement strictly in regards to all items must be upgraded to legendary by crafting, then this was a huge spit in the face to players. If this was intended to be Zenimax's way of telling players crafted gear will be better... then they should really adjust the stats/sets on all gear in the game, because as of right now crafted gear is inferior.


    Yes. That is the literal, exact wording used in many pre-launch interviews and streams. Best gear in the game will come from crafters UPGRADING various loot and/or drops; upgraded to legendary by crafters. Whether one wants to twiddle about with is it realllllly crafted is the best, or is upgrading reallllly crafting makes no difference>

    The end result is the most fabulous crafted and the most fabulous dropped gear can still be 'improved' by.......regular adventurers running through dungeons? ...by regular adventurers farming, stalking, fixating, obsessing on particular mobs? No.

    NO. The better than, best available, most umpteenth maxed stats available on gear / weapons/ whatever is/will be available ONLY if a Master or Mistress Crafter UPGRADES it. Which means = Crafted => is zee BEST.

    Master or Mistress Crafter = player who has put in the effort, time and dedication to becoming the best in a particular craft.

    Do we know already ALL craftable upgrades which will become available for craftspersons in the AZ's or other upcoming content? Not yet. So, plans that include avenues for our Craftspeople to continue in the future to be able to UPGRADE loot/gear/items are still yet to be seen, yes? Doesn't mean those paths/traits/abilities aren't coming.

    *Bandages horse and administers generous ampule of Moonsugar...

    Except that that's not true. Literally anyone can upgrade any item to legendary. The difference is a few gold coins for some legendary mats.


    Well I stand [snip] corrected. Thanks RylukShouja for the clarification. I fumed and searched around online and asked in game and haven't found anything to counter your explanation. Still fuming, but guess I have it straight now. Anyone with the right amount of coin in their hand can BUY the number of needed ingredients and upgrade their own shiz. o-0

    So crafting is 'for fun' during the leveling experience if you want to call it that, but most of the professions mean very little once one is spending the majority of their time in the end game environs. I guess I'll stick to my herb concoctions and will probs keep messing about with stat food; otherwise I will focus on my battle expertise from now on. Sad, but humble panda.


    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
    Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 18, 2014 4:04PM
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