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Trials completion in 11mins?
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captain_awesome✭✭✭If you go into wayrest sewers, go all the way to the last boss, take your time, have a cup of tea, some cake. Have a nap too. Then send one player outside - maybe to repair their gear.
When he comes back kill the last boss and it gives you the speed run title.
I discovered this by accident when i went out to repair my gimpy templar.
The exploit you are referring to is probably something similar to this.^Dominion FTW.2 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Mh, sounds like what I'd picture a PvE MOBA to be. Seriously, I am glad you guys enjoy it, but that's so not my cup of tea and thus am left with grinding again. Hope there's more in-depth large group content on the horizon.
It's kinda funny tho, rushing rushed content meant for rushing."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭The completion is legit, you cant blame top players for using the tools they are given.
The blame is on who created a game where everyone can be everything as long as you are a DK.3 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
Aw, man.
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
captain_awesome✭✭✭The completion is legit, you cant blame top players for using the tools they are given.
The blame is on who created a game where everyone can be everything as long as you are a DK.
"You cant blame top players" for all rolling the 2 OP classes and all rolling the same OP builds. You cant blame top players for farming the emperor title either.
Haha. Lame.Dominion FTW.2 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭captain_awesome wrote: »The completion is legit, you cant blame top players for using the tools they are given.
The blame is on who created a game where everyone can be everything as long as you are a DK.
"You cant blame top players" for all rolling the 2 OP classes and all rolling the same OP builds. You cant blame top players for farming the emperor title either.
Haha. Lame.
Sounds like jealousy to me.
Competitive players will test things until they find the optimal setup, its what they like doing and you cant blame them for doing what they like.
Its on the DEVs to design a game that is either balanced and not open to exploits.
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captain_awesome✭✭✭captain_awesome wrote: »The completion is legit, you cant blame top players for using the tools they are given.
The blame is on who created a game where everyone can be everything as long as you are a DK.
"You cant blame top players" for all rolling the 2 OP classes and all rolling the same OP builds. You cant blame top players for farming the emperor title either.
Haha. Lame.
Sounds like jealousy to me.
Competitive players will test things until they find the optimal setup, its what they like doing and you cant blame them for doing what they like.
Its on the DEVs to design a game that is either balanced and not open to exploits.
No I'm not jealous at all.
It's on Devs to make the game fair and fun for all classes, NB and Templar are not fun to play at all right now. DK and Sorceror are fun to play.
But! It's also on you/us as players not to exploit, to have some moral courage. To play the game as it's intended to be played. Unfortunately this game is full of people without any moral courage, full of people exploiting. The Emperor title is a prime example, and those teams posting these times have many ex-emperors in them. Plus taking advantage of weak mechanics, stacking 2 OP classes, running the same OP spec. It's just plain lame.
You get your 15 minutes of forum fame, sure. Well done LOL.Dominion FTW.4 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭Did you see the video? They did nothing that was "not intended", they did not "exploit".
All they do is playing at a very high level, like it or not, thats not against the rules.
Its just a terribly designed game.2 -
captain_awesome✭✭✭I saw it and it's lame. Nothing impressive there at all. We all know DK and Sorc are super OP and have been from beta. We all know NB and Templar are gimped. We all know a huge chunk of the population re-rolled DK and Sorc and we all know a bunch of NB's and Templars quit the game rather than grind.
All I see there is a bunch of people on the OP classes using the OP unbalanced specs. If they ran different specs and had an even number of each class and then did it in 11 minutes I would be impressed.
If they did it without any pvp buffs (no exploited emp buffs) I would be impressed.
Until that happens - this is always gonna be Lame.
Edited by captain_awesome on May 26, 2014 6:10PMDominion FTW.6 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭See, i was right, its jealousy.
Game is broken, and instead of blaming it on who designed it broken, you are hating players that are playing the most efficient build. In your mind, they are "exploiting".
TL;DR jealousy.
As an NB im out of that ***, couldnt care less, and i see the problem where it really is: class/skill balance in this game does not exist.Edited by Gisgo on May 26, 2014 6:12PM2 -
Wargasmo✭✭✭The current problem with trials is that classes aren't even close to balanced, but even within a class - builds aren't balanced. The DKs and sorcs on the leaderboards at the moment are running very similar builds - you won't see much variation. When ZOS implements a dps check that won't allow 95% of builds and classes to succeed, you get what we currently have. It would be nice if they'd just make the fights HARD, rather than a complete failure if you aren't meeting 1000 dps or something eye-roll worthy. The latter (and current state) only fosters elitism and exclusion of classes and builds, which is hardly healthy for the longevity of the game.
Dps checks aren't the issue with the game. Every good zone should have a few dps checks. This not only encourages players to maximize potential output, but also forces them to play well and avoid deaths. A good dps check should prevent success if more than a few people in the raid die before the final few % of boss health. A Hardmode type dps check (endboss maybe?) should prevent success if any player dies at all.
Of course, the way you tune these fights is to assume that your average raid does x dps and set soft and hard enrages via this timeframe. The problem right now is that with class imbalance as glaring as it is, you are forced to either have fights that a stacked raid just blows through because it's too easy, or a raid encounter that forces stacking and pretty much severely limits the number of Templars you can take and shuts out NB's completely.
As it stands, we get the worst of both worlds. Encounters are tuned to be easy, hence the laughable 11 min clears by stacked groups, and the pug community, well aware of class imbalance, is perpetuating its own system of discrimination. People want DK and sorc stacked raids with a temp healer or 2. NB's get the shaft.
Basically, ZOS needs to fix class balance first. Tone down DK's to sorc level, and then buff Templar and NB to be competitive with that. This would give them a basis for tuning encounters around that actually works for the population as a whole. Secondly, and more importantly, ZOS needs to not make their content so *** easy. Tight dps checks need to be complemented by interesting mechanics that demand situational awareness. We don't want the dps check boss followed by the don't stand in fire boss followed by the kill the adds boss. We want each boss to be challenging on multiple levels. We want the boss with a strict dps check that drops fire on the ground, shoots lazers, spawns tornadoes that follow us around. calls in his troops to help him, and has a portal phase where we split up into 2 groups to do interesting tasks, kill small mini bosses whose health needs to be kept level with each other, and complete a Rubik's cube before coming back out and reengaging the boss. We want bosses that tether and reset so people stop abusing them with pathing issues. We want bosses that have end chest type loot rather than simply looting their corpses so we don't have fungal grotto 2.0.
So ya, ZOS, stop fixing all the little bugs and small issues with obscure quests that very few people actually care to do. WE DONT CARE. We don't even like questing. Fix class balance. No one likes to be a second rate citizen and that's the biggest reason people will leave your game. Give us well thought out endgame encounters. Craiglorn bosses have some interesting mechanics, and if you took the mechanics from all the AA bosses and put them together, you'd have a great pve encounter. But by themselves, the bosses are just cheese fights that we tank and spank with 11 other randomly collected people. IF there's no endgame progression challenge, I'd rather play D3 if I wanted to play rng-did-my-loot-drop games.
ZOS obviously doesn't have enough employees to deal with all their game's issues. They need to prioritize. I don't care if my game crashes every now and then. Memory leak? still playable? other fish to fry! Bugged side quest that lore_nut_001 cries about? rest of us don't care. Bankorai achieve broken so people can't get a vanity title? c'mon. Spend your time and resources bringing us the content that we want and make us all feel like equal baseline players in this game. Bug fixes and even certain exploit fixes can wait. Balance the classes already before the game dies, then give us real content before the top end of the player base leaves. Even casual terribads don't want to group with other casual terribads. They use group finder in hopes that they'll get a carry. If there's no content worth doing there will be no one left to do the heavy lifting for the casual loretards left in the game.2 -
Zaxq✭✭✭Just checked the EU leaderboards.
The 4th and 2nd fastest clears for two of the trials have been completed by a group of 2 players.
1 sorc and 1 DK.
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The current problem with trials is that classes aren't even close to balanced, but even within a class - builds aren't balanced. The DKs and sorcs on the leaderboards at the moment are running very similar builds - you won't see much variation. When ZOS implements a dps check that won't allow 95% of builds and classes to succeed, you get what we currently have. It would be nice if they'd just make the fights HARD, rather than a complete failure if you aren't meeting 1000 dps or something eye-roll worthy. The latter (and current state) only fosters elitism and exclusion of classes and builds, which is hardly healthy for the longevity of the game.
Dps checks aren't the issue with the game. Every good zone should have a few dps checks. This not only encourages players to maximize potential output, but also forces them to play well and avoid deaths. A good dps check should prevent success if more than a few people in the raid die before the final few % of boss health. A Hardmode type dps check (endboss maybe?) should prevent success if any player dies at all.
I wasn't implying that all dps checks are the issue, just the current one in the trials. The gargoyle boss in (I think) spindleclutch v1-5 dungeon was a pretty well executed dps check. You could accomplish it with a number of different builds and styles, I even did it with one player being rezzed. The wisp dps check however will mean complete failure even with everyone alive and running very good gear. This particular dps check needs more balance to allow for something other than staff and light armor sorc and DKs and ultimate gain tricks. Make werewolf viable for 30 seconds of burst dps, make the melee weapons more in line with magicka class abilities so stamina builds are viable, etc. You touch on this in the rest of your post, but I wanted to make sure I was clear that it's not dps checks in general that are the problem, just poorly implemented ones that have problems compounded by class and build imbalance. DPS checks should progressively get harder and harder so that even if you're a little low on dps, it becomes much harder to stay alive but it's still possible to win. The current dps check in mage's trial is just an instant wipe if you don't kill her in X seconds.
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ShintaiDK✭✭✭In relation to the scewed up mechanics. Unless you are a sorc or DK you are out of Trial groups. You can be lucky and get one, if you are a templar that is specced fully for healing.1 -
guillaume.trudelub17_ESOSoul ShrivenJust checked the EU leaderboards.
The 4th and 2nd fastest clears for two of the trials have been completed by a group of 2 players.
1 sorc and 1 DK.
Zaxq, the leaderboard position are unique per player. If the 2nd and 4th are comprised of only 2 players, it is because the people who they did it with had already registered a better time. They did it with 12 people like anybody else.
I'm ranking 5th on the NA leaderboard with only 2-3 partners at the same rank because I did it with people who ranked between 1 and 4th on previous runs and that run got a better time than the people who held 5th before our run.0 -
Harakh✭✭✭Die Welt in einem Sandkorn sehen
Und den Himmel in einer wilden Blume;
Die Unendlichkeit in der Handfläche halten
Und die Ewigkeit in einer Stunde.0 -
GreasedLizard✭✭✭
Indeed. The one day (prior to hotfix) that FTC was able to generate full raid dmg stats, I noticed two NB as the top 3 constantly.
One was v5 (Shinobi Shiroe) and another v11 (Surgical Incision)
*names something like that
Sorc was #3.
Combat Prayer + Power extraction + Pulsar = top AE staff dmg.
NB execute is also still king (but you need heavy Magicka and Spell Power)
It's barely better though lol, should be clear-cut winner.
Trash is trash, single target 'should' be a welcome forte to a raiding party.
Ultimates:
Yes NB ult are pure crap now. The changes to stealth killed 2 very viable single target ULT. Veil has utility and damage reduction, cool for one bar.
Now they are outshined by the Soul Magic ULT that everyone gets. Meteor becomes our only 'viable' AE ULT, whoohooo 900 dmg, 600 splash or something
F.Dawnbreaker I believe only works on weapon skills, so once again Class NB gets shafted. Weapons aren't viable dps (although they are feathered in between)Edited by GreasedLizard on May 26, 2014 8:56PM0 -
subecsanur✭✭✭Zos looking at leader board: "Raid has all three classes as NB where never implemented, so thats ok, but it bothers me that they only need one templar... Templar healing must be OP, lets nerf it"
The very sad part of that "joke" is that I swear devs in some games must literally think that way. There's simply no other explanation for some of the stupid stuff that some game devs do (not saying ZoS, just in general). What's worse is that yes, you pretty much can't even get into a Trial right now as a NB unless it's a Guild run or group of friends. Day one was fine because people took just about anyone as long as they weren't tards, now it's all about get it done as fast as possible so no NB sorry.
I'm one of the players who has learned to deal with the shortcomings of NB's since the beginning and I still have high hopes for the class, maybe it's just me liking playing the underdog to prove others wrong or something. Unfortunately atm there isn't much I can prove to anyone about NB lol, oh except that I can sneak to EVERY Skyshard in Craglorn Delves solo without engaging a single mob, go NB! The irony is so can any other class, we just get +25% speed while crouching HA!!
The stepchild treatment of NB has occured even from day one getting into the VR zone when you try to join the VR dungeons. As soon as you use the group finder and find yourself in a group as an NB, the next thing you get is the boot with the group complaining on how low our contribution is, unless you are one of the few VAMP destro or Shield bash types maybe.
But for the most part NB's are not wanted in groups.0 -
Tyr✭✭✭✭guillaume.trudelub17_ESO wrote: »Just checked the EU leaderboards.
The 4th and 2nd fastest clears for two of the trials have been completed by a group of 2 players.
1 sorc and 1 DK.
Zaxq, the leaderboard position are unique per player. If the 2nd and 4th are comprised of only 2 players, it is because the people who they did it with had already registered a better time. They did it with 12 people like anybody else.
I'm ranking 5th on the NA leaderboard with only 2-3 partners at the same rank because I did it with people who ranked between 1 and 4th on previous runs and that run got a better time than the people who held 5th before our run.
This is accurate, but 2-3 people with the right builds can finish AA. 12 people are not required.
Craglorn trials are DOA. At this point all 4 classes need a complete rework.
I usually don't say things with this kind of extremity and I have defended ZOS on the balance issues several times in this forum.
However this right here is inexcusable:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103435/dk-solos-craglorn
Edit; Actually at this point I believe they should nerf ALL the class skill trees into the ground to make them balanced against weapon/guild/world skill trees with the ultimates making them slightly preferable.
That would go the longest way to making the game balanced and also feel more like an TES game.
Imagine 12 people with no Class abilities whatsoever going into Craglorn.
Now balance the class abilities to be 10-20% more effective than that.
That would be ideal.Edited by Tyr on May 27, 2014 12:59AM2 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hexspawn: Resto/Resto DPS [Sorc]
Tripwyr Manawrath: Resto/Resto DPS [Sorc]
Niwilav: Resto/Destro DPS [Sorc]
Montiquilla Resto/Destro DPS [Sorc]
Ninjuka: Healer [Sorc]
Dyvith Manawrath: Healer [Sorc]
Metal Dimmu: Main Tank/multipurpose [Templar]
Permared: Destro DPS [DK]
Reese Withoutherspoon: Destro DPS [DK]
Luvboard: Destro DPS [DK]
Casuale: Destro DPS [DK]
Fire Shot: Destro DPS [DK]
ok at least we know know the vast array of weapons that actually are worth using .. ive been saying it for a while now welcome to "world of elder staffs online"
play any way you want you can use the resto staff OR the destro staff.. and em did i mention the resto staff? ... and em possibly the destro staff???...
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Head.hunter✭✭✭I noticed that on the boards today. 11 minutes.... hope this wasn't Aetherian Archive? Some of these bosses can't be cleared with sheer damage or combat skills. You either get to the safe zone with your group or wipe, and no amount of ultimate spamming is going to make a difference, let alone wear down each boss + the mobs in between in that amount of time.I'm just a banana from another dimension.0 -
Locke_ESO✭✭✭This is a pretty sad reflection on the state of the balance in the game that the most efficient groups are those stacked with 1 class. Class balance aside having PvP Empire benefits cross into a competitive PvE situation is just stupid.1 -
Quaesivi✭✭✭God forbid, try dealing damage in this game with any of the weapon skills at first, I dare you... you can have 12 DK for all I care, if you all equip the damagers with weapons and no magicka, I assure you, you won't complete the trial at all. Anything + Staff is more OP than others could be, which is ridiculous.1 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jp_antillb16_ESO wrote: »This is a pretty sad reflection on the state of the balance in the game that the most efficient groups are those stacked with 1 class. Class balance aside having PvP Empire benefits cross into a competitive PvE situation is just stupid.
Not just the class tho. Stacked with light armor and destro/resto staff. DK and sorcs just do better for the non-stealth/cc damage, and templar for the heals...0 -
Kronosphere✭✭✭✭can we please not nerf classes based of op builds and exploits, instead can we fix the exploits and buff the other 2 classes or something?~House Indoril~
Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.3 -
Kronosphere wrote: »can we please not nerf classes based of op builds and exploits, instead can we fix the exploits and buff the other 2 classes or something?
no, is too difficult2
