Nightblade Update

Aoifesan

LordTareq wrote: »

Haste needs a serious look at. As it stands it provides absolutely no or at best a very, very minimal dps increase even if spamming exclusively light attacks. Utter waste of an ability slot.

The current state of the Nightblade is absolutely inexcusable after almost 2 months...

Well yes an ability that give a 30% increase to weapon speed attacks that are already at 1 second intervals will provide a benefit that is almost imperceptible.

Valerien

I have been looking at different options and it does seem that while Nightblade is under powered, but more so if you take the traditional dw medium armour build which should be the most optimal build.

Now I would happily explain the issue and my views on how it may be fixed, breaking down the skill lines etc but if the Devs don't care then it seems like I am only telling people that already know this issue what they are which is pointless.

The easiest way to fix nightblade is increased damage. If your single target attacks can't kill an opponent very very quickly 3 on one with the lack of defensive skills open to a single target dps nightblade are too low. They simply can't toe to toe for long with the mobs. They sure can't come back from a stun or knock down where they get hit but a red circle or two.

Takeda_Shingen

I will try this time to keep a promise .... never again have my 1st character Assassin - Ranger it is so disappointed to choose with your heart what you like and finding in the leveling that your class it's just a crap.

This class suppose to be overpower with bows against mobs and fighting with blades any single npc. But nop in the last 10 years every mmo includes this class and doing the same mistake having it as useless.

We have tanks, we have healers, we have mages ... and here end the classes because we can't realize that an "arrow in the knee" it's more power-able from a distance than a heavy armor with a two-hand sword. We can't realize that is more critical an attack from the shadow than from something we see running towards us.

V9 and the nightblade class it seems just waste of time, waste of payment, generally waste. You need to have an army for backup you can't rush and take down 2 enemies only with strategy hiding and hoping everything will go as you wish, You will not end with your own DEATH.

So the major question is what lead you in the first place to make the class. If you believed that many people would like it (at least 25%) why you have disappointed them?

I don't know if the players want a "fix" on the class or an upgrade or anything else. What I believe is that any player wants his class to be equal good against the others and that seems haven't crossed your mind. Do not feel bad it happened also in other previous mmo, you aren't the first ones doing this mistake.

It is my mistake for 3rd time and I hope will keep my promise and never again make 1st character a "waste".

Thanks for wasting time in my chosen class.

davidetombab16_ESO

u waste u time guys, a simple improvement for some abilities will not be enough, the Nightblade must be totally revised. L2R, learn to reroll!
this is the way

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

Aetherian Archive Trial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-AihITyYqQ

4 Man Dungeons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pODBGHKF2VU

Morticielle

Sangeet wrote: »

I feel that nightblades are crap, compared to DK and Sorc, especially the AOE root, +AOE Impulse allows them to train 10 ! mobs in a dungeon, aoe them to death, where i struggle to kill 3 Mobs group, mostly i need to avoid them. This is not funny, when they kill 3x times faster, they level especially faster.

First, this is a total exaggeration. A sorcerer usually can not kill 10 mobs at a time. Second, here is written, that every class has to have the exact same abilities? If you want that, then go play Rift, where every class has heals, damage, crowd control and buffs. Only stealth is atm reserved for rogue, but I am shure they will change that too in the future.

Sangeet wrote: »

The problem is: our AOE CC abiity is fear, which distributes mobs, where Sorc and DK can concentrate this mobs in one spot, also their CC ability does additional damage to the mobs, where our CC only occupies the mobs for a short duration, 4 seconds.

And once more: Where is written, that every class has to have the same abilities as others classes? The abilities of the nightblade were well known before release of this game, so if you decided to play a nightblade you had to be o.K. with those abilities or you didn't give it much thought and are now crying because of your mistake.

@ Zenimax: Don't make the mistake to make every class the same. It was a bad idea to give every class stealth (and I say that as a sorceror who loves to kill others players out of stealth), don't make more mistakes like that. Fix the broken abilities on NB and that's it.

shiva7663 wrote: »

Why do VR8 skeevers exist at all?

Because they leveled up and earned their rank by killing players like yourself.

Edit: Corrected one typo.

Aoifesan

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »

I feel bad for you Nightblades. I also have a V2 Nightblade, but re-rolled on a DK because I was getting smoked in Vet content (more likely due to my rush-in-dk-style of play). I am excited to get back to my NB once I hit V12 on my DK but will wait until they are fixed.


NBs need some serious buffs though...I was in Cyrodil today and while I am getting better at PvP I am no expert and I was getting ganked solo by V5+ NBs and they just could not hurt me (I'm only V7 btw). They should be able to blow me up. They have the jump on me, hit me for like half health and stun me, yet I can break out heal and destroy them...they need their skills fixed ASAP.

I do this with a Sword and Board Nightblade. Take three and four mobs and kill them all.

Grao

Grim13 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

So let me get this straight: longer than 15 seconds, at least 5 or 6 mobs, melee and non-vampire.

I'm going to assume that you don't want two-hander or sword-and-board, either. Or werewolves. And probably no stealth-spam tactics or group play or nothing against daedra, werewolves, undead or vampires (because you benefit from fighters guild). Oh, and only VR5 and up, because we all know the games on easy mode till them.

Well apparently you need to resort to hyperbole and assumptions instead of simple reasoning.

It should be longer than 15 seconds because Id like to see if theyre actually able to handle a place like, lets say Sanguine's Demense, with multiple 4-6 mob packs crowding the corridors one pack after another. It should be melee because thats what I expected to be able to do with a class described as exceling through stealth, skilled blade use and speed. Non-vampire because I dont think being a vampire should be a requirement of making the basic, class-related archetype build work. Same goes for werewolves... tho tbh Im not sure youd get much of a benefit from that one. Fighter guild stuff... sure why not... keep in mind tho that if your ability to perform hinges on enemies being undead/daedra youll be SOOL when theyre not. Stealth? Sure. Part of the archetype. Group play? Wasnt this whole thing about soloing stuff? If you want to talk about group play Id rather chat about NB viability in Crag trials as dps compared to other classes.

Moderator Note: Edited quote to attribute it to the correct user.

Sanguine Demise is a PUBLIC DUNGEON. NOT meant to be solo. Sorry, but for you I have only one thing to say L2P.

Once again an unfair comment as they can be soloable, If I can sometimes do it on a nightblade, other classes could do it without problems.

No, not unfair, just truth. The content you named and the specifications given in this post (mobs of 6 or more) are not meant to be played solo! I know the Nightblade Class has serious issues and I am sorry for that, I really am, but if, once fixed, nightblades are able to run through group content appropriated for their lvl while completely alone they should be nerfed, just like DK are getting nerfed.

Understand, I am saying I want Nightblades to be fixed and work properly, but not for them to be the new ridiculous op class. That will only cause more problems.

And you should not be playing group content while solo. Do you have some social problems? Lack friends? L2P >.>

Ok, so when I witnessed Sorcerers soloing this dungeon, one day... and DKs soloing it, the next... that's A-Ok with you?

The bloody Sorcerer, in light armour, ran into the centre of each grouping and spammed destroy staff until they were all dead... then ran into the centre of the next group of Mobs in Sanguine's Demesne and did the same... over and over...

If a NB pulls 2-3 of those, he's toast 75% of the time.

..But, hey, we're wrong to expect to be able to solo the same dungeon as half of the other classes in the game can.

Sure. o_0

How silly of us.

That is not a problem with the nightblade class, but with some of the others. Also, exaggeration just makes you sound silly, did you even checked what level was the sorcerer in question? (I ask cause I main sorcerer and some of the large packs can kill you if you are in their level).

I know Nightblades have issues and I do believe they need to be fixed, I just think you guys are using REALLY STUPID examples in this post. Public dungeons are group content, they are not meant to be soloed by any class... So complaining that Nightblades are broken just because they can't do it is simply silly and stupid.

NBs are broken because several of their abilities don't work, not because they are not overpowered like dragon nights. Make better posts or shut up >.>

martymart76_ESO

Haxer wrote: »

Well that's disappointing, considering my main is a medium armor DW Nightblade. *sigh* How is this not hotfix worthy? I can only turn out ALT's for so long Zeni pleeease.

Exactly. IT IS hotfix worthy, and we haven't gotten a hotfix, but you can be damned sure that the other classes, if they were as broken, would. I'm sorry, but I don't think ZOS knows how to build an assassin class functionally.

They need to go play Skyrim.

Grao

I have to agree with @Morticie, each class is meant to have debilities and areas where they exceed. Though Nightblades are currently suffering because of the many bugs, that has nothing to do with their lack of AoE Damage. That is intended by design.

Nightblades are meant to exceed on single target damage as a assassin class. Dragon Knights are meant to exceed on survivability as a tank class. Templars are meant to exceed as healers and sorcerers exceed on utility and AoE damage. Each class is special for a reason...

Nightblades don't feel special because abilities they need are not working. Once those abilities are fixed, then we will be able to see what they are really capable of.

Evergreen

Grao wrote: »

NBs are broken because several of their abilities don't work, not because they are not overpowered like dragon nights. Make better posts or shut up >.>

Since Dragon Knights will never be brought into balance the sky is the limit for buffing Nightblades. I don't think Nightblades should be buffed to the extreme that Dragon Knights are at right now but something clearly needs to be done soon to bring the class up to par.

zhevon

Grao wrote: »

I have to agree with @Morticie, each class is meant to have debilities and areas where they exceed. Though Nightblades are currently suffering because of the many bugs, that has nothing to do with their lack of AoE Damage. That is intended by design.

Nightblades are meant to exceed on single target damage as a assassin class. Dragon Knights are meant to exceed on survivability as a tank class. Templars are meant to exceed as healers and sorcerers exceed on utility and AoE damage. Each class is special for a reason...

Nightblades don't feel special because abilities they need are not working. Once those abilities are fixed, then we will be able to see what they are really capable of.

Of course you're right about the AOE but that basically causes severe problems with the forced solo'ing of "harvester" class bosses. The other problem is we tend to be squishy and the generic AI on mobs is rush at you like hell on fire basically making them very difficult to kite successfullly or even to escape when overwhelmed. A lot of the areas are designed so stealth basically useless (as well as being shared by all classes). Its just a big frustrating mess.

And to top it all off with a cherry all the DKs out there keep talking about certain instances being "gut" checks.

GreasedLizard

@Morticielle‌ Very nice!

@Grao‌ Sorcerer skill lines don't really scream 'AoE' as the Temp/Dk lines show their fortes

Ultimates are where all 3 other classes really excel. NB had 'one big daddy' that was highly situational and was nerfed into oblivion.

NB still builds the best AE destro with Power Extraction

I 'think' NB lines push you towards a high sustain blender spec, but so much seems broken (Haste for one, DW scaling for another) PE -> Whirling Steel execute with max passives can actually be far deadlier than Pulsar can ever hope to be. (far less sustainable though)

Attack Speed mods need to be reworked. Med AR passive + Haste + [broken] Flurry (needs to apply buff after the animation is finished). Power Extraction should scale linearly off all of this and make a beast DW, but it does not. Siphoning Strikes should scale off this immensely too.

Melee needs a buff in general, as lower uptime on boss fights and greater need of time and resources for avoidance/mitigation.

frwinters_ESO

Aoifesan wrote: »

taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »

I feel bad for you Nightblades. I also have a V2 Nightblade, but re-rolled on a DK because I was getting smoked in Vet content (more likely due to my rush-in-dk-style of play). I am excited to get back to my NB once I hit V12 on my DK but will wait until they are fixed.


NBs need some serious buffs though...I was in Cyrodil today and while I am getting better at PvP I am no expert and I was getting ganked solo by V5+ NBs and they just could not hurt me (I'm only V7 btw). They should be able to blow me up. They have the jump on me, hit me for like half health and stun me, yet I can break out heal and destroy them...they need their skills fixed ASAP.

I do this with a Sword and Board Nightblade. Take three and four mobs and kill them all.

I do to. the rushing in isnt a DK ability, its from sword and board. I rush in stub, stab stab, claok, vield striek, stunned again stab stab roll away, charge, stun stab stab, ultimates in there somewhere, roll away from Talons and standards then rush in stun stab stab.

Any class can do the rush stun stab stab method not just the DK. Sword and Board!

Erlindur

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that everything that is wrong with the Nightblade comes from a single bad decision. If you take a look at the archetype NB, medium armor, DW/ bow build, everything screams single target dps. Lots of crits, sneak attacks, abilities that do more damage from stealth, siphoning to keep sustained dps, even a way to lose agro in case you overdo damage and start drawing the boss attention. We have the design of the typical single target dps in most MMOs.

So what went wrong? What was the problem they wanted to solve and ended up messing up the whole class? PvP. A single target dps like that, would be able to one shot every other class in the game, usually from a distance and with relative impunity. The forums (or fora) would be loaded with threads screaming, NERF NBs. So, here comes the bad decision. Preemptively nerf NB damage output, in levels that they cannot one shot anyone. Yes, but this is a single target no-damage-per second, dear developers. This is a class you designed for a role and then you took that role away. Naturally, that leaves you with a class that not fits anywhere.

What would be a better alternative, at least in my mind? Follow real life. Snipers for example, exist and they are really deadly. What you did was taking their rifles away. Well, that is effective but not really fun in a game. In real life, a sniper's worst enemy is another sniper. Introduce ways to track and detect people in stealth. Mage light was the first step. Why not some general stealth detection passives in the pvp trees? Why not some track stealth passives somewhere in the NB lines? Make the NB, NB's worst enemy in pvp. Sure you would had some people one shotted, but you would probably ended up with NBs too busy hunting each other all over the map (and having lots of fun) to really bother with other classes. Would you risk taking down a sole player if you are tracking another NB or maybe have one on your tail?

No broken pve class, NBs have their role in a group, happy pvpers and a new role as scout for pvp groups.

HandofBane

So can we get some kind of further recognition of other skills/abilities reported in this thread as broken or not working properly? And maybe an update on how soon to expect actual fixes? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ?

Or should those of us who are reduced to either blowing all our gold on a respec and new gear hoping it works for us, or quitting the game for a while just close our accounts for the next couple months til you get around to fixing our class?

Harakh

It is funny how some classes come in here and tell us how fine the class is. If we say we want more AOE, some came and say not all classes should do the same, but if we NB say, why can everyone stealth all other classes say all should be good in all, it is funny some how. The Balance in this game already killed this game a bit.

DK and Sorc are the Powerhouses of TESO. Be one of them or go the hard way.

Aziz006

Attention!That is mainly about medium armor NB, do not read if you are light armor NB!

NB broken skills is not problem at all. I am an NB player I love NB skills but the problem is, even if they fix all skills, NB single-target DPS lags behind other classes. I accept that DK must have survivability and sorc must have best AoE damage. The only reason I choose nb is single target DPS not the invisibility because every class can stealth. Who cares invisibility if everyone can stealth? Not me!

Only stun NB has (expect Ambush which stuns only monsters) is dark cloak+concealed weapon combo. That costs us 700 magicka(without light armour) to stun someone and it does only 400 damage if not stealthed.
Some of you may say that it is good as opener. Is it though? Simple heavy attack from stealth does nearly same damage which can be done by all classes.

Fortunately NBs are now best for teaching you how to survive. If you are still NOOB just play NB until vr10.

LunaRae

Looking forward to implementation of Nightblade changes/fixes. To be honest I want accurate, properly functioning abilities before changes (unless changes are used to address broken abilities). Since Craglorn my crit rating went from 12% to 52% without changing skills/abilities, so thanks for that and many other fixes. But there are a few left, keep at it Zeni

F7sus4

They speak Nightblade core-rebalancing is meant to come with Thieves Guild and/or Dark Brotherhood skill-lines, so...

curlyqloub14_ESO

Sangeet wrote: »

The problem is: our AOE CC abiity is fear, which distributes mobs, where Sorc and DK can concentrate this mobs in one spot, also their CC ability does additional damage to the mobs, where our CC only occupies the mobs for a short duration, 4 seconds.

Ya know, I'm surprised fear isn't being mentioned more. Personally, I haven't bought the skill, so maybe I am way off in my assumptions about how it works in ESO, but it seems pretty much totally useless.

In dungeons, tunnels and such are usually small tight areas, with the next group of mobs being so close - it seems like a lot of potential to fear a mob and have it go running right into the next group of mobs, triggering their social assist, and effectively training yourself when the fear breaks and you now have 3 or 4 coming back at you instead of just one.

In open world, even though the spaces may be more open, groups of mobs are still relatively close to each other in most cases, so still fear seems useless.

In group dungeons, fearing mobs would potentially send them out of the AoE range of any other players, while also running the risk of pulling more mobs with a social assist.

No matter how you slice it, fear just doesn't seem viable in, well, any situation really.

Or does fear not work that way? Does it just send them running in a tight little circle without ever coming close to other mobs?

Personally, if I am in desperate need to split a pack, I'll hit one with agony to take it out of commission for 12 secs while I down the other, and hope that 1) 12 secs is long enough, and 2) no other player happens to run by and damage my stunned mob and break it. Either way, Agony at least lasts 12 secs. Fear only lasts 4, which seems pretty much a joke.

So I guess what I wonder is, does anyone here really use fear at all? I kinda' wish they would just trash it completely and give us another more useful skill. Like a quality ranged AoE and/or stun.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

glitchmaster999

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Great, then i quit..

glitchmaster999

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Great, then i quit..

Hey I could be wrong, I know they nerfed it because of an exploit so they will probably bring things up to scratch as well, templars have an awesome kit its just not up to scratch yet.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Great, then i quit..

Hey I could be wrong, I know they nerfed it because of an exploit so they will probably bring things up to scratch as well, templars have an awesome kit its just not up to scratch yet.

And no announcement yet about fixes.. and exploit ? You mean botters, they nerf an entire class because of botters..

glitchmaster999

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Great, then i quit..

Hey I could be wrong, I know they nerfed it because of an exploit so they will probably bring things up to scratch as well, templars have an awesome kit its just not up to scratch yet.

And no announcement yet about fixes.. and exploit ? You mean botters, they nerf an entire class because of botters..

Botters used it but templars could solo anything that could be knocked back, ive seen videos of Erlexx doing it, the knockback just made sure they were perma cc'd

Blinks

Lets all start a protest outside the gates of Zenimax...You think then, they might start listening?

Nickdorlandb16_ESO

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Great, then i quit..

Hey I could be wrong, I know they nerfed it because of an exploit so they will probably bring things up to scratch as well, templars have an awesome kit its just not up to scratch yet.

And no announcement yet about fixes.. and exploit ? You mean botters, they nerf an entire class because of botters..

Botters used it but templars could solo anything that could be knocked back, ive seen videos of Erlexx doing it, the knockback just made sure they were perma cc'd

Oh please do tell me DK, Sorc cant ... Yes it was the only way to actually get passed the freaking mobs.. We dont have anything else to slow something down like that for a long time..

Also ask around and pm some times, how they are enjoying VT content now.. And how much they die now, even more

glitchmaster999

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

They are reverting biting jabs change but increasing mana cost and nerfing sorcs and dragonknights, it sounds like templars are at the level the other classes should be but I could be wrong.

Great, then i quit..

Hey I could be wrong, I know they nerfed it because of an exploit so they will probably bring things up to scratch as well, templars have an awesome kit its just not up to scratch yet.

And no announcement yet about fixes.. and exploit ? You mean botters, they nerf an entire class because of botters..

Botters used it but templars could solo anything that could be knocked back, ive seen videos of Erlexx doing it, the knockback just made sure they were perma cc'd

Oh please do tell me DK, Sorc cant ... Yes it was the only way to actually get passed the freaking mobs.. We dont have anything else to slow something down like that for a long time..

Also ask around and pm some times, how they are enjoying VT content now.. And how much they die now, even more

I play a nightblade and a templar in vet levels, trust me I know th pain but for the mean time Ive just swapped to initiating with biting jabs and then whirlwind with heals in the middle, not amazing but it gets the job done.

Jaxom

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Sangeet wrote: »

The problem is: our AOE CC abiity is fear, which distributes mobs, where Sorc and DK can concentrate this mobs in one spot, also their CC ability does additional damage to the mobs, where our CC only occupies the mobs for a short duration, 4 seconds.

Ya know, I'm surprised fear isn't being mentioned more. Personally, I haven't bought the skill, so maybe I am way off in my assumptions about how it works in ESO, but it seems pretty much totally useless.

In dungeons, tunnels and such are usually small tight areas, with the next group of mobs being so close - it seems like a lot of potential to fear a mob and have it go running right into the next group of mobs, triggering their social assist, and effectively training yourself when the fear breaks and you now have 3 or 4 coming back at you instead of just one.

In open world, even though the spaces may be more open, groups of mobs are still relatively close to each other in most cases, so still fear seems useless.

In group dungeons, fearing mobs would potentially send them out of the AoE range of any other players, while also running the risk of pulling more mobs with a social assist.

No matter how you slice it, fear just doesn't seem viable in, well, any situation really.

Or does fear not work that way? Does it just send them running in a tight little circle without ever coming close to other mobs?

Personally, if I am in desperate need to split a pack, I'll hit one with agony to take it out of commission for 12 secs while I down the other, and hope that 1) 12 secs is long enough, and 2) no other player happens to run by and damage my stunned mob and break it. Either way, Agony at least lasts 12 secs. Fear only lasts 4, which seems pretty much a joke.

So I guess what I wonder is, does anyone here really use fear at all? I kinda' wish they would just trash it completely and give us another more useful skill. Like a quality ranged AoE and/or stun.

I use Mass Hysteria (fear) and it's absolutely amazing in both PvE and PvP. It's a 30% power reduction, 52% snare and 4.5s fear that doesnt break on damage. Yes, mobs run away, but thats what I want. You can kill a group of 3 without being touched in PvE while burning them down from range. In PvP, it drains enemy Stamina since they break out of it, but I can just spam the skill. Eventually you will not have enough stamina to break out and Ill have 4.5s to burn you down. In mass raids, yeah not so great. In small scale battles, it's phenomenal. I wont take it off my bar now that I have it.