Hm, when could we expect the lift of the DNA - since you announced the event hope its soon rather than "soon". And does it means, we will see some radicalish changes in combat?

Blobsky wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

On a serious note why are we choosing the players tht stream themslves abusing every exploit in the gm as some kind of tester? Do they even try committing themselves to the non 1vX classes? Templars and DKs have been suffering and need and total class nuke.

Templar is absurdly strong in PvP (Says a guy who streams it regularly) but that isnt relevant anyway - everyone is from a PvE backgroumd or a community figurehead e.g. reddit

Yeh doesnt bode well for PvP improvements.

Good to see that a lot of new people got invited to it and not just the same people, even if some are returning. Remember that it was a great experience being there last time. Will not be returning personally but good to know some people that had and have had great feedback are going. Have fun and help make the game better guys. Hope we get some great theorycrafters to come with. @Taylor_MB you going? I would have recommended you, done really great stuff for the community and knows the formulas well. Damage mitigation theorycrafters need to represent

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Very excited to be returning and working with everyone

Get them to fix Sap Essence please. Even adding a minor snare to it would be awesome for NB tanks. A health scaling shield in the Shadow line would be a dream come true for me, too.

(Last idea is just spitballing, not wholly serious.)

Seems my invitation got lost somewhere no seriously, hope it goes well and you guys can improve the game together

Would've loved to go to the states, haven't been there yet.

Ixtyr wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Very excited to be returning and working with everyone

Get them to fix Sap Essence please. Even adding a minor snare to it would be awesome for NB tanks. A health scaling shield in the Shadow line would be a dream come true for me, too.

(Last idea is just spitballing, not wholly serious.)

While I agree NB tanks need some help, I wholly disagree that Sap is where buffs are needed. Sap is insanely strong, especially in PvP, and is a major part of the reason why NBs make for better Destro bombers than other classes. In general, PBAoEs are vastly overtuned and they all need nerfs (while single target and conal/cleave damage needs buffs and/or revamps).

NB tanks are facing the same issue that old-school Templars and DKs have faced for years - their defining strength was gutted and nothing has really replaced it. For NBs it was the insane sustain capabilities, for old DKs it was Dynamic Ulti.

I'm sure Gil and the others have plenty of notes and feedback of their own, and I have plenty of thoughts as well, so I'm sure it'll come up and be discussed.

Sap is strong against zergs in PVP, as you’ve alluded to, but it loses considerable might in small scale and is borderline irrelevant when facing one target (better to use Entropy). I think that highlights one of the issues with this closed-feedback loop is that the reps will be speaking toward issues that they feel are important and not necessarily what Joe Schmoe needs to understand his class or to experience his class fantasy. That player will likely never see the inside of a Vet Trial and may step into Cyro during the yearly PVP festival while utterly clueless about what a Destro-bomber is.

I’m also highly skeptical that all this community/ rep feedback will result in anything concrete or game-changing to the class dynamic for Summerset or even the rest of 2018. With CP, power creep, gear creep, and all the class revisions, they need to do something like what WoW does with their major expansions: completely rebuild the skill tables and synergies.

Do I think this will happen? The cynic in me says “no”. Am I hopeful nonetheless? Sure. I’m a fantasist at heart.

Edit: I do think that if ZoS is doing this whole “tank/ heal/ dps” tree for each class, we should see more health scaling abilities in all the class trees, as was done with Warden. It encourages properly built tanky builds while discourages people picking the most advantageous ability that offers no drawback (lower magika pool for example, if you’re stacking health).

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Very excited to be returning and working with everyone

Get them to fix Sap Essence please. Even adding a minor snare to it would be awesome for NB tanks. A health scaling shield in the Shadow line would be a dream come true for me, too.

(Last idea is just spitballing, not wholly serious.)

While I agree NB tanks need some help, I wholly disagree that Sap is where buffs are needed. Sap is insanely strong, especially in PvP, and is a major part of the reason why NBs make for better Destro bombers than other classes. In general, PBAoEs are vastly overtuned and they all need nerfs (while single target and conal/cleave damage needs buffs and/or revamps).

NB tanks are facing the same issue that old-school Templars and DKs have faced for years - their defining strength was gutted and nothing has really replaced it. For NBs it was the insane sustain capabilities, for old DKs it was Dynamic Ulti.

I'm sure Gil and the others have plenty of notes and feedback of their own, and I have plenty of thoughts as well, so I'm sure it'll come up and be discussed.

Sap is strong against zergs in PVP, as you’ve alluded to, but it loses considerable might in small scale and is borderline irrelevant when facing one target (better to use Entropy). I think that highlights one of the issues with this closed-feedback loop is that the reps will be speaking toward issues that they feel are important and not necessarily what Joe Schmoe needs to understand his class or to experience his class fantasy. That player will likely never see the inside of a Vet Trial and may step into Cyro during the yearly PVP festival while utterly clueless about what a Destro-bomber is.

I’m also highly skeptical that all this community/ rep feedback will result in anything concrete or game-changing to the class dynamic for Summerset or even the rest of 2018. With CP, power creep, gear creep, and all the class revisions, they need to do something like what WoW does with their major expansions: completely rebuild the skill tables and synergies.

Do I think this will happen? The cynic in me says “no”. Am I hopeful nonetheless? Sure. I’m a fantasist at heart.

Edit: I do think that if ZoS is doing this whole “tank/ heal/ dps” tree for each class, we should see more health scaling abilities in all the class trees, as was done with Warden. It encourages properly built tanky builds while discourages people picking the most advantageous ability that offers no drawback (lower magika pool for example, if you’re stacking health).

Agreed on the Tank/Heal/DPS tree item, and that some skills and lines do just need rebuilt (at least partially).

My point with Sap is that it's already an 8m spammable reasonable cost good damage skill that grants you Major Sorcery and heals you for damage done - it has more than enough going for it and I'd rather see other heavily underutilized skills either replaced or reworked to provide additional boons, rather than just making an already strong skill even stronger. The fact that it isn't as useful in some situations as it is in others is a good thing IMO, it means that's one less skill that becomes completely essential for everyone playing that class to slot, and pigeonholing someone into having to use a skill isn't good for balance or build diversity. Buffs to Sap (in a vacuum where nothing else is changed) just aren't the route I'd go, because as much as you say "this buff wouldn't affect me", the team can't ignore the fact that it would impact a significant chunk of the player base. If they did add a hard snare to Sap as you said, I'd at least want to see the damage and healing both brought down (which, to be fair, I want to see anyway).

Joy_Division wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

On a serious note why are we choosing the players tht stream themslves abusing every exploit in the gm as some kind of tester? Do they even try committing themselves to the non 1vX classes? Templars and DKs have been suffering and need and total class nuke.

Templar is absurdly strong in PvP (Says a guy who streams it regularly) but that isnt relevant anyway - everyone is from a PvE backgroumd or a community figurehead e.g. reddit

Not quite. You are an absurdly strong player with hundreds and hundreds of days /played going solo PvP. You would make any spec absurdly strong in PvP because you are so much better than the vast majority of people you fight.

Templar is what it's pretty much always been: middle of the pact. Good at some things. Not so good at others.

Just about to say this. I can take my off meta templar and smash some pugs but the second I meet an equally competent or greater player the weaknesses in the Templar kit instantly shines.

mb10 wrote: »

So patch notes on Apr 3 I hope

The personal feeling of this one is that date is much too early for a full set of Pants Notes.

However perhaps in the next week or so we might start to see a little more information appearing.

This is to be expected yes if perhaps we may be travelling to Test Tamriel in mid to late April.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just want to reiterate not everyone attending is a streamer - we've chosen a wide variety of players with different strengths based on our needs. This is also not the same thing as the class rep program we recently announced; this effort has a completely different focus. Lastly, remember not everyone attending has chimed in this thread - and they don't have to if they're not comfortable doing so.

I know you folks at ZoS take a lot of heat for the perception of inviting folks that some people do not feel are representative of the community. People may disagree with me, but I think going all the way back to Summer 2014 with the guild Summit, the representation, while not perfect, has been diverse.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Vanthras79 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

So patch notes on Apr 3 I hope

I am eagerly awaiting the natch potes.

I am expecting quality memes.

I'm eagerly awaiting them too just to get disappointed and start crying afterwards.

I'm eagerly awaiting them too so I can finally have some new topics to tro... constructively debate.

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just want to reiterate not everyone attending is a streamer - we've chosen a wide variety of players with different strengths based on our needs. This is also not the same thing as the class rep program we recently announced; this effort has a completely different focus. Lastly, remember not everyone attending has chimed in this thread - and they don't have to if they're not comfortable doing so.

I know you folks at ZoS

For the LAST time Joy, it's "ZOS", not "ZoS".

It's not "Zenimax of Studios".

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just want to reiterate not everyone attending is a streamer - we've chosen a wide variety of players with different strengths based on our needs. This is also not the same thing as the class rep program we recently announced; this effort has a completely different focus. Lastly, remember not everyone attending has chimed in this thread - and they don't have to if they're not comfortable doing so.

I know you folks at ZoS take a lot of heat for the perception of inviting folks that some people do not feel are representative of the community. People may disagree with me, but I think going all the way back to Summer 2014 with the guild Summit, the representation, while not perfect, has been diverse.

Then I look forward to reading the reports from people about they representations they made to ZOS about rebuilding the in-game crafting economy, as well as all the measures to support RP play... in addition to ZOS's positive responses to these representations.

If that actually happened then it would just about make my day.

Interesting that you should mention diversity and the 2014 summit. My memory suggested that the English guilds mentioned were predominantly competitive PvE and PvP guilds. So I checked, Gina's post lists 11 English guilds. I'd probably pitch about 7 of those 11 as being specifically PvP or PvE centric guilds (rather than social/casual, crafting or RP). What would your estimate be? How many of that number identified themselves as RP-heavy guilds? I'd be interested in your insight.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone, just want to reiterate not everyone attending is a streamer - we've chosen a wide variety of players with different strengths based on our needs. This is also not the same thing as the class rep program we recently announced; this effort has a completely different focus. Lastly, remember not everyone attending has chimed in this thread - and they don't have to if they're not comfortable doing so.

I know you folks at ZoS take a lot of heat for the perception of inviting folks that some people do not feel are representative of the community. People may disagree with me, but I think going all the way back to Summer 2014 with the guild Summit, the representation, while not perfect, has been diverse.

Then I look forward to reading the reports from people about they representations they made to ZOS about rebuilding the in-game crafting economy, as well as all the measures to support RP play... in addition to ZOS's positive responses to these representations.

If that actually happened then it would just about make my day.

Interesting that you should mention diversity and the 2014 summit. My memory suggested that the English guilds mentioned were predominantly competitive PvE and PvP guilds. So I checked, Gina's post lists 11 English guilds. I'd probably pitch about 7 of those 11 as being specifically PvP or PvE centric guilds (rather than social/casual, crafting or RP). What would your estimate be? How many of that number identified themselves as RP-heavy guilds? I'd be interested in your insight.

I roleplay as an Argonian Handbag-in-Training, does that count?