RIP SORC!

DDragon · April 2016

Regarding Stamina sorcerers:

This one thinks there is a bit of problem with issue detection. Modification of thundering presence (which is in this one opinion terrible, since it makes sorc passive - disintegrate - not applicable) is mostly an AoE damage enhance. This one is mostly a PvE player and as a PvE player this one never had any issue with AoE damage. There was always problem with single-target DPS, which is way too low comparing both to magika-users or stamina-users.

This one is just a simple-minded khajiit, but it thinks that adding stamina-version of crystal fragment would solve an issue. If there is no desire to change terribly revamped second morph of crystal fragments, maybe add a toggle-ability to daedric armor - just like it was done with pets. The reason it to add a strong single-target damage-making class-passive supported ability (just like WB is being used but with bonuses to class passives).

Furthermore some stamina-based single-target dot should be added (this one think there is a space here in twilight morph, which is atm used only for leveling). Revamping it to add damage over time effect and maybe give major/minor berserker for few seconds would be great. It would also add so long begged for stamina version of pets. There are so many daedric creatures, that this twilight might get morphed into something else (maybe Malacath's ogrim?) and it would be lore-OK.

Also please change the synergy of storm antronach. While the idea of adding berserker is nice one, it only adds it to one player, which makes this ultimate pretty useless in case of trials. Make it to apply to 6 or 12 people.

This one is writing this only from PvE point of view, this one does not care about PvP.

Vangy · April 2016

Digiman wrote: »

Don't think people realize their cheering for this change also means LA is another full damage shield, it may be short but it means you have to keep DPSing harder against 2 full damage shields.

So ultimately this solved nothing, it doesn't address LA survivability it just made it harder against shield stackers especially when said shields are gone in less then 5 seconds.

Laugh it up, cause you lost.

I think with changes and shields only lasting 6 seconds we at least force the sorc to keep rebuffing every 6 seconds. If you want to keep both harness and hardened up you will have less then 2-3 seconds to Dps Lol. By all means stand there and mash 2 buttons every 6 seconds. Not to mention the serious toll this will take on your magicka bar against stamina toons cos you get no mag back from harness agaisnt them. One good cc and splat.

This change won't stop shield spammers. That's good. It's a legit line of play. It will however stop shield stacking as outlined above. You can't dps or sustain properly while trying to maintain 2 6 second duration shields.

Magdalina · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Why should stealth players hit one button and stay invisible? Maybe they should try refreshing that every six seconds. L2P!

20 seconds is too long, 6 is too short. The answer is somewhere in between. 10 or 12 maybe?

one, that is a single class that can do that. two, you do have to refresh cloak. in fact you have to do it every 2.9 seconds, so that argument is out the window. no one is taking away the ability to use your shield against the possibility of a ganker. you simply just have to hit one button more often than before. heck, by the time you have to reapply it your mag would have regened anyway.

everyone seems to keep forgetting that there is an 8 second shield. but ooooohhhhhhh noooooo i have to choose between two skills rather than have one go to that everyone uses awwwwwwwwwwww. the choices..........to many choices zos awwwwwwwww. stop it. you mean we all have to choose between a larger shield or higher duration ooooo noooo. whats that......the 8 second one can translate to more damage mitigation because the extra time gives me the opportunity to stack annulment......noooooooooo......i have to think about build dynamics??? i cant just run the same sorc setup as everyone else because......choices awwwwwwwwwww.

just saying...

We get two choices, one of which is a stupid pet shield. Neither are as good as Harness Magicka, which everyone gets.

I get it, you think this is a great idea making our class defense worse than a light armor skill that everyone has.

Please show us on the doll where the bad sorc touched you.

no, i dont think a class shield should be outdone by a non-class shield. perhaps that is where the adjustment needs to be made. but as for the duration. i dont have a prooblem with that.

So what is the point of choosing a sorc class then? In PvP they can still shield stack somewhat and have Streak(which is NOT a viable escape skill but it still provides great mobility in combat) and Mines and Curse, okay.

In PvE? Our class shield is worse(or at best the same as) than a non class shield. Okay. Our class spammable attacks...oh wait, we don't have those. Our class self heals...wait, don't have those either. Surge is NOT a reliable selfheal, not to mention it relies on high dps and crits, making it useless for tanks(I thought we were trying to give people more versatility here?). Our group heals...are now present but depend on a pet with 10k health. Who can be protected by Ward except Ward now lasts 6 seconds. Having to babysit Twilight with 20 second shield in order to have a heal slightly better than BoL was alright, having to do it with 6 seconds is just silly. Why not just roll templar instead for easymode BoL spam? Our amazing group utility...consists of one CC(which most dps won't be slotting anyway) and Negate which sorc dps can't really use because we have to use Overload to do at least somewhat competitive dps. Our execute is the weakest execute in game. Our dps is on the lowest end of the spectrum without Overload and it is NOT the highest one even with Overload(not to forget Overload bugs out literally every 3rd attack and means you gotta save your ultimate to do any competitive damage so no ulti-ing trash or anything).

So remind me, why would one choose to use a sorc in PvE if this change goes live again?

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Justice31st I don't mean to be trolling mate its not about the double shield stacking that could have been easily removed its about us mages getting nerfed and affecting PVE , they could of done many things even decrease it from 20 sec to 10 sec remove double shield as i mentioned above have a CP points to make shields longer ect this effects us allot especially PVE players now temps will need to work harder in order to heal us, before we were able to sustain and do big DPS.

And im sure you understand as well when your templer got nerferd you were upset

"Radiant destruction nerf, unpurgable siege weapons(cleansing ritual nerf), focus healing passive nerf, and breath of life nerf. Anyone else regret spending so much time on your Templar healer?
Edited by Justice31st on February 4, 2016 1:14PM"

So there is no need to be a troll this next updated mages were affected next updated could be NB or Templer.

Meh....

Dks got nerfed .... Sorcs rejoiced

Temps have been getting their bee hinds poked since the dawn of ESO... Sorcs met up every friday night and laughed about it over beers.

Nbs got cloak nerfed...Sorcs threw a new year party...

Now sorcs getting nerfed and you want everyone to suddenly come to their senses and help?? GG not going to happen sadly.

LOL, what nerf did NB's cloak get? It's as strong as ever, it needs another nerf, lol. NB's are still the favoured class of ZoS.

They removed it's purge and with the changes to mage light and evil hunter, every can have a reveal button while at the same time boosting their damage output.

W0lf_z13 · April 2016

although i agree that the 6 seconds change time is a HUGE difference.... I also have to agree with everyone else who says shields in battle dont last 20 seconds, I find myself thowing on shields every 8 to 10 seconds during a fight mixed in with a potion and some attacks and i do fairly well in pvp ... as a sorc you CANT rely ONLY on shields to win a fight... streak.... cfrag, ensnare.... throw some cc into the mix and you should do fine

Minalan · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Im gonna put a little simple math to this.

Currently in Cyro my hardened ward with my magicka and bastion levels, sits at about 13k (on the Cp campaigns of course)

13k. To drop this shield in 6 seconds, you would need about 2.2k DPS single target. That is resto heavy attack channeled. Any sorc today is already refreshing that shield well before six seconds have passed if they are taking damage. In fact, in six seconds I might refresh mine 2 or 3 times, it depends on circumstances.

At the same time, I am attacking already. All at the same time I am refreshing shields as needed, I am alternating in attack specials and LA weaves as necessary for ult gain, all the good stuff. So in a six second window, I might throw a frag, a curse, 3-4 shields, a det, an ult, 2-5 light or heavy attacks, and an entropy. Thats right now today. All possible with animation canceling and knowing how skills have to be ordered for maximum speed/efficiency. I am also moving all over the place, behind walls, trees, up and down hills, roll dodging, breaking free, usually mashing spacebar to hop for funsies as well. Sorcs press a lot of buttons when they know what they are doing, and pressing them correctly is a skill we learned through months of trial and error. Shields are a natural part of it. PROTIP - Shields proc frags, the more I shield, the more I frag. So shields actually = damage output.

What I do NOT do is stand still with a 20k single cast shield for 30 seconds throwing crushing shocks and frags at people and ignoring my shield bar, like many of you seem to believe is all sorcs do. What seems like an unending shield, was us already recasting it repeatedly. Derp.

Now, if that doesnt explain quite clearly why this change doesnt matter in the slightest, I dont know what to tell you.

The change destroys pressure builds.

I regularly have my shield 2 or 3 seconds before running out while trying to kill players (sometimes it does run out). What this change does is lowering DPS for non cookie cutter builds by having to reapply shields more often.

Will i be even harder to kill? Yes. Will it be harder to kill people that know what they´re doing? Yes.

That´s exactly the direction i did not want the class to go. More tank less dps.

It's not tanky, not when you can just CC someone a couple of seconds into their shield and nuke them.

With a longer shield, the counter play was to cast it a little more often, but with a six second shield what are you going to do? Refresh it every two seconds just to survive a couple of CC's?

This is ass, it needs to go back. The only viable builds I've seen are stacking stamina on a *** sorcerer.

ZOS_DaryaK · April 2016

We've removed a few posts that were strictly trolling or baiting. Please remember to keep things civil, that means no personal attacks.

technohic · April 2016

As much as I find it hilarious that a shiled that was much stronger than blazing shield and a lot more duration gets nerfed to the same short duration while still being that much stronger of a shield and people cry about it; I have to say that I would rather they had just gotten rid of STACKING shields and just made the shorter ones last longer. I would rather shields be a more prep to protect from an ambush than spam while fighting.

They left the stacking and actually made it more effective to spam them up in combat as there are more strong shields now to stack. The entire point of doing this I feel will be a failure and the only thing that will happen is some sorc whining.

Cinbri · April 2016

I remember long time ago when i talked about Sun Shield and its low 6 sec duration, many people said 6 sec is enough for damage shield and it should not be increased. Well, i can say same for now than.

CP5 · April 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

I remember long time ago when i talked about Sun Shield and its low 6 sec duration, many people said 6 sec is enough for damage shield and it should not be increased. Well, i can say same for now than.

When you use blazing shield you want it to explode for its damage. I saw a health stacked player in pvp running blazing shield as their main damage source, once they got attention and the shield kept popping everyone around them died. That shield is designed to expire early, the sooner the better.

Makkir · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Edit: And the worst part being that nerf to duration of shields only changes the survivability when ganked. Every moron with a bow is salivating already.

@Derra Don't know about you but I think there's a lot more merit now running radiant or defensive rune at minimum.

Makkir · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Let me ask you something, how is this even an issue?

If you're in a fight your shield isn't going to last 8 seconds. Why is this even an issue, are you all just posting because you see it has a time reduction?

Nothing has changed...

If anything sorcs now have 3 shields against physical damage.

It´s not. The only thing changing is sorcs are now super vulnerable for ganking. Which i suspect was the main point.

The Harness/Dampen change is stupid - no other way to put it. Now ppl are going to stack three shields all of them absorbing every type of dmg a solution only zos could come up with.

Players: We want less shields.
ZOS: Ok everyone gets a hardened ward.
Players:

annulement should require 5pc light armor

RoyalPink06 · April 2016

To start with, I don't like being forced into light armour (or Kleenex, as some call it lol) in order to get the magicka passives, and then they nerf our wards on top of that? 6 seconds is a little extreme. Maybe a compromise somewhere in the middle would be more appropriate, or only have the 6 second duration apply when you enter Cyrodiil, since shields are reduced there anyway.

I guess us sorcs will have to implement a new rotation and learn to get comfortable with it, if this change goes live.

DjSolJAH · April 2016

I think all the NBs and other classes who are not running or testing a sorc on the PTS need to gtfo these threads. Stop trolling with your meaningless opinions and QQs

I would like to see some real feedback from actual sorcs doing actual testing on the PTS. Go take your trolling back to the general discussion forum and stop filling PTS threads with petty garbage.

TheBull · April 2016

Lucky28 · April 2016

Digiman wrote: »

Don't think people realize their cheering for this change also means LA is another full damage shield, it may be short but it means you have to keep DPSing harder against 2 full damage shields.

So ultimately this solved nothing, it doesn't address LA survivability it just made it harder against shield stackers especially when said shields are gone in less then 5 seconds.

Laugh it up, cause you lost.

yep. not to mention that some classes that where already really hard to kill will get 10x harder to kill then sorcs currently are as every class will not have hardened ward.

Mush55 · April 2016

Is it really that hard to separate pvp from pve in this game in regards to skills and timers ?

ajwest927 · April 2016

ZOS need to listen the QQers, sorcerer wards were fine they way it was before. It's not our fault they can't break our wards fast enough.

RobbaYaga · April 2016

Just a thought, but the people who have never played as a Magicka Sorc should really stop posting their ignorant assessments.

Regardless, with the endless lag in Cyrodiil, I couldn't tell you what 6 seconds actually feels like. Maybe it will seem like an eternity there, who knows, but in PvE, 6 seconds is too short (for any shield).

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2016

lithgorin · April 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we get a confirmation if this is the only changes expected for Stam Sorcs with this patch? Seems like it would cut off a lot of unnecessary complaints if we know more is coming or not (even if we dont know what it is yet).

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

The comment was made that Sorc's do not have those abilities. Which is false. They do, however, they are less effective then on a stamina build. Thats like saying Stam sorc's don't have magicka det, healing ward, crushing shock, efficient purge... etc.

So much less effective that using them regularly in pvp will actually get you killed. If my sorc slots and uses caltrops he loses ~70% of his stamina and is therefore vulnerable to cc at that point. A stam sorc using healing ward would be a complete waste of magicka for them. Wasting your resources in pvp will get you killed. Therefore saying magicka builds don't have access to expensive stamina skills is true, so stop being pedantic for the sake of it.

I see you have two sorcs. Please deposit salt here with the rest of them.

I see you got one agree and no awesome for your post. More effort required in future please. If you can find my salt you can have it. I love that hardened ward is now 6 secs, I'm more salty about the annulment buff.

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

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Thelon · April 2016

Adversity is like a strong wind. It tears away from us all but the things that cannot be torn, so that we see ourselves as we truely are.

The_Lex · April 2016

Thelon wrote: »

Adversity is like a strong wind. It tears away from us all but the things that cannot be torn, so that we see ourselves as we truely are.

Deep, man. Deep.

Kwivur · April 2016

Thelon wrote: »

Adversity is like a strong wind. It tears away from us all but the things that cannot be torn, so that we see ourselves as we truely are.

lol..

SturgeHammer · April 2016

DDragon wrote: »

It would also add so long begged for stamina version of pets. There are so many daedric creatures, that this twilight might get morphed into something else (maybe Malacath's ogrim?) and it would be lore-OK.

I am not keen on the idea of having stamina pets, but I would be all for changing one of the morphs of Storm Atro to be a giant Ogrim to drop on enemies for a large physical damage AOE Ult.

Edit: It just occurred to me that the new wind theme for Sorcs makes a good case for an Air Atronach Ult that deals physical damage.

Derra · April 2016

Makkir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Edit: And the worst part being that nerf to duration of shields only changes the survivability when ganked. Every moron with a bow is salivating already.

@Derra Don't know about you but I think there's a lot more merit now running radiant or defensive rune at minimum.

I´m already running defensive rune. Problem is a competent ganker fires a bow shot before attacking and most of the time should be able to kill you with bowheavy + style out of stealth.

Defensive rune does not help in that case.

RML might help there but i refuse to slot a skill of that limited use simply bc zos is unable to create a combat system where stealthganks are not possible.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Edit: And the worst part being that nerf to duration of shields only changes the survivability when ganked. Every moron with a bow is salivating already.

@Derra Don't know about you but I think there's a lot more merit now running radiant or defensive rune at minimum.

I´m already running defensive rune. Problem is a competent ganker fires a bow shot before attacking and most of the time should be able to kill you with bowheavy + style out of stealth.

Defensive rune does not help in that case.

RML might help there but i refuse to slot a skill of that limited use simply bc zos is unable to create a combat system where stealthganks are not possible.

Because stealth gameplay is a core mechanic of TES games.

Derra · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Edit: And the worst part being that nerf to duration of shields only changes the survivability when ganked. Every moron with a bow is salivating already.

@Derra Don't know about you but I think there's a lot more merit now running radiant or defensive rune at minimum.

I´m already running defensive rune. Problem is a competent ganker fires a bow shot before attacking and most of the time should be able to kill you with bowheavy + style out of stealth.

Defensive rune does not help in that case.

RML might help there but i refuse to slot a skill of that limited use simply bc zos is unable to create a combat system where stealthganks are not possible.

Because stealth gameplay is a core mechanic of TES games.

Fine for PvE not for PvP.

Oneshot kills from an invisible opponent are about the least desireable thing a pvp game can offer.

Also stealth gameplay does not equal stealthgank oneshots. Funny that this is the same for you