RIP SORC!

Elevenstorm · April 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Universe · April 2016

6-8 seconds duration of wards ? Is this a joke ?
They will be completely useless in both pvp and pve(veteran maelstrom).
If this will go live, the 100 champion points of bastion will have to be relocated since there will be no reason for using the wards(especially in pvp).
The 100 points can be used for increasing the physical, magical/etc damage reduction as a compensation.
Though I don't think that investing in damage reduction will be enough to survive.

Birdovic · April 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Well, we can also make zenimax take away stealthing so gankers actually got to L2P and use their brain. I'd say that's a better solution.

i think ganking is a legit playstyle. a true ganker is going full glass canon so once they are caught they are dead. Additionally, assassins are real. people kil people from the shadows all the time. a player should be able to choose to play that way if they want. Again, there are plenty of counters to that playstyle. so long as there are counters to a playstyle, i dont think there is a problem with it.

I think shield stacking is a legit playstyle. a true shield stacker is going full magicka so once they are CC'd they are dead. A player should be able to choose to play that way if they want. Again, there are plenty of counters to that playstyle. so long as there are counters to a playstyle, i dont think there is a problem with it.

Elevenstorm · April 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

The comment was made that Sorc's do not have those abilities. Which is false. They do, however, they are less effective then on a stamina build. Thats like saying Stam sorc's don't have magicka det, healing ward, crushing shock, efficient purge... etc.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Well, we can also make zenimax take away stealthing so gankers actually got to L2P and use their brain. I'd say that's a better solution.

i think ganking is a legit playstyle. a true ganker is going full glass canon so once they are caught they are dead. Additionally, assassins are real. people kil people from the shadows all the time. a player should be able to choose to play that way if they want. Again, there are plenty of counters to that playstyle. so long as there are counters to a playstyle, i dont think there is a problem with it.

I think shield stacking is a legit playstyle. a true shield stacker is going full magicka so once they are CC'd they are dead. A player should be able to choose to play that way if they want. Again, there are plenty of counters to that playstyle. so long as there are counters to a playstyle, i dont think there is a problem with it.

yes i agree shield stacking can be a playstyle. however, on live there was no draw back to it. for proper ganking you give up sustain and once caught you are usually dead. Shield stacking on live simply allowed you to have great defense and high offense cause you could buff 2 shields and then begin fighting for a little knowing your shields would stay up for awhile unless getting full on attacked. Now, a player needs to choose to go shield stacking full defense and lack offense or vice versa. now there is a drawback to tat playstyle.

there are not plenty of counters to shields. there is one set and a champ star. for ganking there is a set, potions, every aoe in the game, magelight, and shields.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I love this. Peoples main complaint about the change is the lack of being able to go on the offensive with the shield like you used to be able to.

One- currently on live a sorc needs to reapply shields at a minimum every 6 seconds in a fight because the only way to kill a sorc is to burst their shields down quickly. So, most sorcs already play in a way that the lowered duration wont matter. Many people just look at the numbers and cry about it without realizing how it actual effects battle.

Two- sorcs still have access to more shields then everyone else. they also still have access to the longest duration shield at 8 seconds. perhaps now sorcs use that morph. although you lose some shield size, the 8 second duration still allows a sorc to stack a 6 second shield and have 2 shields for a 6 second duration unlike other classes that will get, at best, 4 seconds of 2 shields.

three- this whole crap about not being able to got go on the offensive properlly now. that is nonsense. sorc rely on timed burst damage. you through out your curse and your dot, pop a ward, proc a frag, streak ult, ward. rinse repeat. additionally, this does bring a small element of i need to choose to shield up or attack in some instances which is nice to make people choose between a hard defense or strong offense at times. brings balance rather than having both.

four- lets not forget my little sorc friends that many mag builds rely on healing ward. a short duration shield that requires us going on defense to proc and therefore not attack. This playstyle has been around for awhile, so complaining about how big of a nerf this is is just a joke. in fact, because of the timing involved in a sorcs burst, a sorc can setup their burst and go into defensive mode while they wait to time their burst whereas other players require quick burst that require a full offensive.

five- l2p. omg you might not be able to run around with 15k health anymore and all divines. stop crying. pump your health and throw on some impen if you feel like your having trouble. remember when nb were crying about the nerf to cloak and the buff to magelight? guess what, everyone l2p and it is not an issue. People realized that when they actually started playing it didnt make as much of a difference as they thought it would. Same thing here. Not going to make as much of a difference as you think it will.

Yeah, I remember how NB cried about Magelight... and I remember how it got nerfed within days, too. Didn't the duration of its effect get cut in half, as well as the range?

Thanks for the lesson, Nightblades! I'll keep crying like you guys did until the duration of Ward gets walked back to something reasonable.

Elevenstorm · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I love this. Peoples main complaint about the change is the lack of being able to go on the offensive with the shield like you used to be able to.

One- currently on live a sorc needs to reapply shields at a minimum every 6 seconds in a fight because the only way to kill a sorc is to burst their shields down quickly. So, most sorcs already play in a way that the lowered duration wont matter. Many people just look at the numbers and cry about it without realizing how it actual effects battle.

Two- sorcs still have access to more shields then everyone else. they also still have access to the longest duration shield at 8 seconds. perhaps now sorcs use that morph. although you lose some shield size, the 8 second duration still allows a sorc to stack a 6 second shield and have 2 shields for a 6 second duration unlike other classes that will get, at best, 4 seconds of 2 shields.

three- this whole crap about not being able to got go on the offensive properlly now. that is nonsense. sorc rely on timed burst damage. you through out your curse and your dot, pop a ward, proc a frag, streak ult, ward. rinse repeat. additionally, this does bring a small element of i need to choose to shield up or attack in some instances which is nice to make people choose between a hard defense or strong offense at times. brings balance rather than having both.

four- lets not forget my little sorc friends that many mag builds rely on healing ward. a short duration shield that requires us going on defense to proc and therefore not attack. This playstyle has been around for awhile, so complaining about how big of a nerf this is is just a joke. in fact, because of the timing involved in a sorcs burst, a sorc can setup their burst and go into defensive mode while they wait to time their burst whereas other players require quick burst that require a full offensive.

five- l2p. omg you might not be able to run around with 15k health anymore and all divines. stop crying. pump your health and throw on some impen if you feel like your having trouble. remember when nb were crying about the nerf to cloak and the buff to magelight? guess what, everyone l2p and it is not an issue. People realized that when they actually started playing it didnt make as much of a difference as they thought it would. Same thing here. Not going to make as much of a difference as you think it will.

Yeah, I remember how NB cried about Magelight... and I remember how it got nerfed within days, too. Didn't the duration of its effect get cut in half, as well as the range?

Thanks for the lesson, Nightblades! I'll keep crying like you guys did until the duration of Ward gets walked back to something reasonable.

This seems to be a common strategy for ZOS to find "balance". They test extremes and then settle in the middle somewhere. Unless they forget about their current "projects" and leave the extreme ability in the game for far too long.

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

The comment was made that Sorc's do not have those abilities. Which is false. They do, however, they are less effective then on a stamina build. Thats like saying Stam sorc's don't have magicka det, healing ward, crushing shock, efficient purge... etc.

So much less effective that using them regularly in pvp will actually get you killed. If my sorc slots and uses caltrops he loses ~70% of his stamina and is therefore vulnerable to cc at that point. A stam sorc using healing ward would be a complete waste of magicka for them. Wasting your resources in pvp will get you killed. Therefore saying magicka builds don't have access to expensive stamina skills is true, so stop being pedantic for the sake of it.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I love this. Peoples main complaint about the change is the lack of being able to go on the offensive with the shield like you used to be able to.

One- currently on live a sorc needs to reapply shields at a minimum every 6 seconds in a fight because the only way to kill a sorc is to burst their shields down quickly. So, most sorcs already play in a way that the lowered duration wont matter. Many people just look at the numbers and cry about it without realizing how it actual effects battle.

Two- sorcs still have access to more shields then everyone else. they also still have access to the longest duration shield at 8 seconds. perhaps now sorcs use that morph. although you lose some shield size, the 8 second duration still allows a sorc to stack a 6 second shield and have 2 shields for a 6 second duration unlike other classes that will get, at best, 4 seconds of 2 shields.

three- this whole crap about not being able to got go on the offensive properlly now. that is nonsense. sorc rely on timed burst damage. you through out your curse and your dot, pop a ward, proc a frag, streak ult, ward. rinse repeat. additionally, this does bring a small element of i need to choose to shield up or attack in some instances which is nice to make people choose between a hard defense or strong offense at times. brings balance rather than having both.

four- lets not forget my little sorc friends that many mag builds rely on healing ward. a short duration shield that requires us going on defense to proc and therefore not attack. This playstyle has been around for awhile, so complaining about how big of a nerf this is is just a joke. in fact, because of the timing involved in a sorcs burst, a sorc can setup their burst and go into defensive mode while they wait to time their burst whereas other players require quick burst that require a full offensive.

five- l2p. omg you might not be able to run around with 15k health anymore and all divines. stop crying. pump your health and throw on some impen if you feel like your having trouble. remember when nb were crying about the nerf to cloak and the buff to magelight? guess what, everyone l2p and it is not an issue. People realized that when they actually started playing it didnt make as much of a difference as they thought it would. Same thing here. Not going to make as much of a difference as you think it will.

Yeah, I remember how NB cried about Magelight... and I remember how it got nerfed within days, too. Didn't the duration of its effect get cut in half, as well as the range?

Thanks for the lesson, Nightblades! I'll keep crying like you guys did until the duration of Ward gets walked back to something reasonable.

duration was cut from 5 to 3 seconds. range stayed.

i have zero issue with testing establishing that the duration should be tweaked a few seconds. that is fine. However, much of this discussion comes from people who just read the patch notes and started QQ. mage light was changed based on testing feedback. not based on the QQ.

by all means go and test it and come back with some solid reasons as to why it should be changed. based on my testing (alfbeit short testing thus far) i have not seen a change in playstyle mainly because against a player you are more often then not reapplying the shields within 6 seconds anyway. additionally, the 8 second shiled still allows for decent shiled stacking with annulment which people seem to forget got a buff.

Minalan · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Why should stealth players hit one button and stay invisible? Maybe they should try refreshing that every six seconds. L2P!

20 seconds is too long, 6 is too short. The answer is somewhere in between. 10 or 12 maybe?

one, that is a single class that can do that. two, you do have to refresh cloak. in fact you have to do it every 2.9 seconds, so that argument is out the window. no one is taking away the ability to use your shield against the possibility of a ganker. you simply just have to hit one button more often than before. heck, by the time you have to reapply it your mag would have regened anyway.

everyone seems to keep forgetting that there is an 8 second shield. but ooooohhhhhhh noooooo i have to choose between two skills rather than have one go to that everyone uses awwwwwwwwwwww. the choices..........to many choices zos awwwwwwwww. stop it. you mean we all have to choose between a larger shield or higher duration ooooo noooo. whats that......the 8 second one can translate to more damage mitigation because the extra time gives me the opportunity to stack annulment......noooooooooo......i have to think about build dynamics??? i cant just run the same sorc setup as everyone else because......choices awwwwwwwwwww.

just saying...

We get two choices, one of which is a stupid pet shield. Neither are as good as Harness Magicka, which everyone gets.

I get it, you think this is a great idea making our class defense worse than a light armor skill that everyone has.

Please show us on the doll where the bad sorc touched you.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Minalan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Why should stealth players hit one button and stay invisible? Maybe they should try refreshing that every six seconds. L2P!

20 seconds is too long, 6 is too short. The answer is somewhere in between. 10 or 12 maybe?

one, that is a single class that can do that. two, you do have to refresh cloak. in fact you have to do it every 2.9 seconds, so that argument is out the window. no one is taking away the ability to use your shield against the possibility of a ganker. you simply just have to hit one button more often than before. heck, by the time you have to reapply it your mag would have regened anyway.

everyone seems to keep forgetting that there is an 8 second shield. but ooooohhhhhhh noooooo i have to choose between two skills rather than have one go to that everyone uses awwwwwwwwwwww. the choices..........to many choices zos awwwwwwwww. stop it. you mean we all have to choose between a larger shield or higher duration ooooo noooo. whats that......the 8 second one can translate to more damage mitigation because the extra time gives me the opportunity to stack annulment......noooooooooo......i have to think about build dynamics??? i cant just run the same sorc setup as everyone else because......choices awwwwwwwwwww.

just saying...

We get two choices, one of which is a stupid pet shield. Neither are as good as Harness Magicka, which everyone gets.

I get it, you think this is a great idea making our class defense worse than a light armor skill that everyone has.

Please show us on the doll where the bad sorc touched you.

no, i dont think a class shield should be outdone by a non-class shield. perhaps that is where the adjustment needs to be made. but as for the duration. i dont have a prooblem with that.

Elevenstorm · April 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

The comment was made that Sorc's do not have those abilities. Which is false. They do, however, they are less effective then on a stamina build. Thats like saying Stam sorc's don't have magicka det, healing ward, crushing shock, efficient purge... etc.

So much less effective that using them regularly in pvp will actually get you killed. If my sorc slots and uses caltrops he loses ~70% of his stamina and is therefore vulnerable to cc at that point. A stam sorc using healing ward would be a complete waste of magicka for them. Wasting your resources in pvp will get you killed. Therefore saying magicka builds don't have access to expensive stamina skills is true, so stop being pedantic for the sake of it.

I see you have two sorcs. Please deposit salt here with the rest of them.

thestampede38 · April 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

The comment was made that Sorc's do not have those abilities. Which is false. They do, however, they are less effective then on a stamina build. Thats like saying Stam sorc's don't have magicka det, healing ward, crushing shock, efficient purge... etc.

So much less effective that using them regularly in pvp will actually get you killed. If my sorc slots and uses caltrops he loses ~70% of his stamina and is therefore vulnerable to cc at that point. A stam sorc using healing ward would be a complete waste of magicka for them. Wasting your resources in pvp will get you killed. Therefore saying magicka builds don't have access to expensive stamina skills is true, so stop being pedantic for the sake of it.

I see you have two sorcs. Please deposit salt here with the rest of them.

Ha!

Adamon2 · April 2016

1. If the damage done to your shields in 6 seconds is MORE than your shield strength it does not matter if the duration is 6, 26, or 60 seconds. Whether PVP or PVE, this version change to shield duration has no affect on this situation. You're still going to spam it. I play a sorc btw.

2. If the damage done to your shields in 6 seconds is LESS than your shield strength you have to cast it more frequently than in previous versions which consumes more magicka. This comes into play more during PVE fights than PVP. In PVE who cares if a sorc has gigantic shields and stacks them to the dual moons; IT'S PVE. It just becomes annoying to have to cast it more frequently and chew up magicka. In PVP you might get lucky and fight a damage challenged opponent and your shields will last longer than 6 seconds requiring you to cast it more frequently than in previous updates. But if they're not hitting that hard you might go shieldless for a bit anyway. I don't see how this change does anything more than increase magicka use.

3. In PVP when your not in a fight but on the move you have to cast it more frequently (every 6 seconds instead of every 26 seconds) to avoid being one-shot ninja ganked. Preventing ganking becomes more annoying with this change; cast > ride > cast > ride.

This change could be viewed as the gank-assist shield change. I don't think ZOS intended this. I don't think this change was thought through carefully. Put it back to 26 seconds and define better what you're trying to achieve, then formulate a better change.

Vangy · April 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

This sort of pigeonhole thinking is what got Sorc's into this situation in the first place.

Lol wut, try to put vigor on a magicka sorc to use.
Hybrid Builds are not a thing currently, and its been a looooong time since it has been at all.

My mag sorc runs shuffle on her overload bar cos in case you havent noticed, this game is elder snares online. Literally everyone and their grandma's running bombard spam and its broken root..... I run 35k max mag and 15k stam... Sometimes giving up 2-3k magicka can work wonders for mag sorcs. Sadly 90% of mag sorcs run 40k max mag with 7/7 divines and full LA..... Ofcourse you are going to die the second your ward drops... Builds like these are only used by top pros who know how to kite and position.. If you are the average player try to build like ALL THE OTHER CLASSES in the game do. Run at least 5 impen and get some bit of health and stam even though you are a mag toon. You dont HAVE to get 40k mag and 3.5k spell power to be competitive... That's just one of the ways to play sorc. My sorc runs 5 impen and 5/1/1 with 35k mag, 15k stam and 3k spell power... This way I dont get rooted and CC'ed till Im dead... + run immovability pots will work wonders with the new harness magicka.. Its a buff to sorcs not a nerf... Its only a nerf if you were 100% reliant on keeping ward up.. Open up your tunnel vision from mag stacking to a little diversity. The same way my stam DK runs at least 15k magicka to help with keeping wings and igneous up when I need them...

ForsakenSin · April 2016

( from my other post)

Hey while we are at nerfing our shields

Marvel can you nerf captain america shield making him only be able to use it for 6 sec as well its not fair for other avengers or the enemies

joking aside i don't think this should have been implemented why can't PVP and PVE be separated there are many players who love to do dungeons and having 20sec helps allot when you are glass cannon and considering they nerferd heal from templer it helps.

Yes i know i will get L2P ect however my mage has one job and that is huge DPS as quick as possible while been able to stay alive..

Separate PVP from PVE and let those in PVP whine and get their nerfs

Or as mentioned just add this:

1) Remove shield stacking
2 ) Leave PVP shield reduction
4) Add bastion to add seconds to the all shields
5 ) Place starting time be from 6 sec to 20 sec with max 100cp and max mana or stamina to determinant the strength of the shield.

And done! then everybody can adjust to their play style pvp or pve no more nerfing or whining , you are ok with 6 sec fine that works for you not for everybody else spend CP points in something else , we need 15-20 sec for pve not a problem we will just invest in new bastion skill. ( or some other skill so in order to get that 20 sec we need to remove CP from something else ect )

So simple.....

ForsakenSin · April 2016

Justice31st I don't mean to be trolling mate its not about the double shield stacking that could have been easily removed its about us mages getting nerfed and affecting PVE , they could of done many things even decrease it from 20 sec to 10 sec remove double shield as i mentioned above have a CP points to make shields longer ect this effects us allot especially PVE players now temps will need to work harder in order to heal us, before we were able to sustain and do big DPS.

And im sure you understand as well when your templer got nerferd you were upset

"Radiant destruction nerf, unpurgable siege weapons(cleansing ritual nerf), focus healing passive nerf, and breath of life nerf. Anyone else regret spending so much time on your Templar healer?
Edited by Justice31st on February 4, 2016 1:14PM"

So there is no need to be a troll this next updated mages were affected next updated could be NB or Templer.

Rylana · April 2016

For the love of god, stop using the word "salty" in this thread, its so overdone by this point its lost any and all meaning.

Now, a good lot of you in this thread who are clearly anti-sorc seem to have this air of smugness about you that sorcs are now going to be easy mode free kills.

Ill counter with this - I will giggle a little inside every time one of you bads tries to come at me post patch, and laugh even more when you realize not a damn thing changed for me or any other sorc that actually knows how to play the class, is used to taking damage already, isnt a fotm reroll from when sorcs actually were OP, etc.

You really have no clue if you think youre going to be able to kill me or any other competent sorc player any easier (or at all) after this change.

if anything youre going to find out really really fast that sorc is actually the most skilled class, and has been for a very long time. Whoever fed you the koolaid that it was easy mode, lied to you. Get ready to have your hopes, dreams, and aspirations crushed by those of us that have been playing the class as our mains long enough to actually learn it past some stupid cookie cutter build a streamer put out.

I for one will not be rerolling, if anything ill be playing my sorc more just to smash you smug fools right in the faces with how wrong you are. As an added bonus, I might even finish Victoria (my AD sorc) in time for patch day, just so I can show those of you in EP how misguided you are as well.

Salty you say? I legitimately welcome this change, because it gives you all this false sense of security, and I will feed all up on that.

Vangy · April 2016

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Justice31st I don't mean to be trolling mate its not about the double shield stacking that could have been easily removed its about us mages getting nerfed and affecting PVE , they could of done many things even decrease it from 20 sec to 10 sec remove double shield as i mentioned above have a CP points to make shields longer ect this effects us allot especially PVE players now temps will need to work harder in order to heal us, before we were able to sustain and do big DPS.

And im sure you understand as well when your templer got nerferd you were upset

"Radiant destruction nerf, unpurgable siege weapons(cleansing ritual nerf), focus healing passive nerf, and breath of life nerf. Anyone else regret spending so much time on your Templar healer?
Edited by Justice31st on February 4, 2016 1:14PM"

So there is no need to be a troll this next updated mages were affected next updated could be NB or Templer.

Meh....

Dks got nerfed .... Sorcs rejoiced

Temps have been getting their bee hinds poked since the dawn of ESO... Sorcs met up every friday night and laughed about it over beers.

Nbs got cloak nerfed...Sorcs threw a new year party...

Now sorcs getting nerfed and you want everyone to suddenly come to their senses and help?? GG not going to happen sadly.

Derra · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

O man. Now you need to choose to play defense or offense or some balance of the two. Ahhhhhbbbb. Come on now.

And yet now sorcs will be the only class needing to do so, Templar's BoL, DKs insane inanate damage reduction and immunity, NBs, stealth which I've still to this day not seen Cloak get the same treatment as Sorcs Bolt Escape, which is not a escape unless the player the sorc is escaping from has a L2P problem. I'm fine with them taking away sorcs shields if they give sorcs more burst or another way to play competitive with the rest of the big boys more so looking at you Mageblades, Stam DKs and Stamblades in the DB DLC.

But as another mentioned sorcs will and always have adapted to all of the sorcs nerfs in the past so why not now. Tho if the nerf is truly too much which is what I'm trying to figure out now on the PTS as I type this, well you can expect to see very few sorcs and the future and possible many players that only have a sorcerer on their account to look elsewhere for their mage-like entertainment.

Damn, I'm soo glad I've got a Mageplar, and a Mageblade also into the veteran ranks! at least for me no change for me this time around. Just will possible be forced to learn how to play one of those class. Oh well such is the nature of the beast.

Sorcs will be fine. This really doesn't effect fights against competent players. Most fights Sorcs reapply their shields inside of 6 seconds because the other player has to keep constant pressure to get through the shields. People complain from simply reading without testing.

You statement is mostly: "I´ve seen/read/experienced this somewhere but most likely pulled it straight from my behind".

Against competent players my shields run out with 20s duration on a regular basis when i´m on the offense because it takes ages to break players and it will take even longer when every 6th cast has to be a defensive one to avoid getting 1 shot.

On top of that 6s shield duration is going to be a pain in the ass when trying to complete maelstrom arena AND it nullifies every attempt ZOS made to make pets vaible. Pets only survive when they have a shield 5k HP extra will change jack s*** about that.

Rylana · April 2016

Im gonna put a little simple math to this.

Currently in Cyro my hardened ward with my magicka and bastion levels, sits at about 13k (on the Cp campaigns of course)

13k. To drop this shield in 6 seconds, you would need about 2.2k DPS single target. That is resto heavy attack channeled. Any sorc today is already refreshing that shield well before six seconds have passed if they are taking damage. In fact, in six seconds I might refresh mine 2 or 3 times, it depends on circumstances.

At the same time, I am attacking already. All at the same time I am refreshing shields as needed, I am alternating in attack specials and LA weaves as necessary for ult gain, all the good stuff. So in a six second window, I might throw a frag, a curse, 3-4 shields, a det, an ult, 2-5 light or heavy attacks, and an entropy. Thats right now today. All possible with animation canceling and knowing how skills have to be ordered for maximum speed/efficiency. I am also moving all over the place, behind walls, trees, up and down hills, roll dodging, breaking free, usually mashing spacebar to hop for funsies as well. Sorcs press a lot of buttons when they know what they are doing, and pressing them correctly is a skill we learned through months of trial and error. Shields are a natural part of it. PROTIP - Shields proc frags, the more I shield, the more I frag. So shields actually = damage output.

What I do NOT do is stand still with a 20k single cast shield for 30 seconds throwing crushing shocks and frags at people and ignoring my shield bar, like many of you seem to believe is all sorcs do. What seems like an unending shield, was us already recasting it repeatedly. Derp.

Now, if that doesnt explain quite clearly why this change doesnt matter in the slightest, I dont know what to tell you.

Derra · April 2016

Rylana wrote: »

Im gonna put a little simple math to this.

Currently in Cyro my hardened ward with my magicka and bastion levels, sits at about 13k (on the Cp campaigns of course)

13k. To drop this shield in 6 seconds, you would need about 2.2k DPS single target. That is resto heavy attack channeled. Any sorc today is already refreshing that shield well before six seconds have passed if they are taking damage. In fact, in six seconds I might refresh mine 2 or 3 times, it depends on circumstances.

At the same time, I am attacking already. All at the same time I am refreshing shields as needed, I am alternating in attack specials and LA weaves as necessary for ult gain, all the good stuff. So in a six second window, I might throw a frag, a curse, 3-4 shields, a det, an ult, 2-5 light or heavy attacks, and an entropy. Thats right now today. All possible with animation canceling and knowing how skills have to be ordered for maximum speed/efficiency. I am also moving all over the place, behind walls, trees, up and down hills, roll dodging, breaking free, usually mashing spacebar to hop for funsies as well. Sorcs press a lot of buttons when they know what they are doing, and pressing them correctly is a skill we learned through months of trial and error. Shields are a natural part of it. PROTIP - Shields proc frags, the more I shield, the more I frag. So shields actually = damage output.

What I do NOT do is stand still with a 20k single cast shield for 30 seconds throwing crushing shocks and frags at people and ignoring my shield bar, like many of you seem to believe is all sorcs do. What seems like an unending shield, was us already recasting it repeatedly. Derp.

Now, if that doesnt explain quite clearly why this change doesnt matter in the slightest, I dont know what to tell you.

The change destroys pressure builds.

I regularly have my shield 2 or 3 seconds before running out while trying to kill players (sometimes it does run out). What this change does is lowering DPS for non cookie cutter builds by having to reapply shields more often.

Will i be even harder to kill? Yes. Will it be harder to kill people that know what they´re doing? Yes.

That´s exactly the direction i did not want the class to go. More tank less dps.

ForsakenSin · April 2016

Derra that's all understandable and it's amazing however what will happen when the patch comes out and you will no longer be able to cancel animation ?

ForsakenSin · April 2016

Vangy I was not aware of that and it sux

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Justice31st I don't mean to be trolling mate its not about the double shield stacking that could have been easily removed its about us mages getting nerfed and affecting PVE , they could of done many things even decrease it from 20 sec to 10 sec remove double shield as i mentioned above have a CP points to make shields longer ect this effects us allot especially PVE players now temps will need to work harder in order to heal us, before we were able to sustain and do big DPS.

And im sure you understand as well when your templer got nerferd you were upset

"Radiant destruction nerf, unpurgable siege weapons(cleansing ritual nerf), focus healing passive nerf, and breath of life nerf. Anyone else regret spending so much time on your Templar healer?
Edited by Justice31st on February 4, 2016 1:14PM"

So there is no need to be a troll this next updated mages were affected next updated could be NB or Templer.

Meh....

Dks got nerfed .... Sorcs rejoiced

Temps have been getting their bee hinds poked since the dawn of ESO... Sorcs met up every friday night and laughed about it over beers.

Nbs got cloak nerfed...Sorcs threw a new year party...

Now sorcs getting nerfed and you want everyone to suddenly come to their senses and help?? GG not going to happen sadly.

LOL, what nerf did NB's cloak get? It's as strong as ever, it needs another nerf, lol. NB's are still the favoured class of ZoS.

Vangy · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Justice31st I don't mean to be trolling mate its not about the double shield stacking that could have been easily removed its about us mages getting nerfed and affecting PVE , they could of done many things even decrease it from 20 sec to 10 sec remove double shield as i mentioned above have a CP points to make shields longer ect this effects us allot especially PVE players now temps will need to work harder in order to heal us, before we were able to sustain and do big DPS.

And im sure you understand as well when your templer got nerferd you were upset

"Radiant destruction nerf, unpurgable siege weapons(cleansing ritual nerf), focus healing passive nerf, and breath of life nerf. Anyone else regret spending so much time on your Templar healer?
Edited by Justice31st on February 4, 2016 1:14PM"

So there is no need to be a troll this next updated mages were affected next updated could be NB or Templer.

Meh....

Dks got nerfed .... Sorcs rejoiced

Temps have been getting their bee hinds poked since the dawn of ESO... Sorcs met up every friday night and laughed about it over beers.

Nbs got cloak nerfed...Sorcs threw a new year party...

Now sorcs getting nerfed and you want everyone to suddenly come to their senses and help?? GG not going to happen sadly.

LOL, what nerf did NB's cloak get? It's as strong as ever, it needs another nerf, lol. NB's are still the favoured class of ZoS.

Rml.

Rune_Relic · April 2016

ginoboehm wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

why do you buff dks and nbs in the stamina field sooooooo much while they are already the two dominating stamina classes?

I think templars are in a very good place ATM IMHO.

DKs have historically been magicka biased but the goto tank class.
As a resource neutral (light heavy bonus) tank class, it makes sense to get that balance right.
Templars are the man in the middle build with resource/heals, so focus between Magicka/stamina and tank/dps
NB and sorcs ? It stands to reason one should be a stamina dps archetype and one a magicka dps archetype.

So from a class = archetype poit of view...
Tank - stamina/magicka balance - DK
Healer - stamina/magicka balance - Templar
Magicka DPS - Sorc
Stamina DPS - NB

Doesnt stop you picking up a resto for healing.
Doesnt stop you goign 1h+s for tanking.

Giving the sorc massive endless shields makes them a tank + DPS class

IMHO this is all a rationalisation and balancing attempt.
Still dont agree with heal on damage....and never will.
You want to heal...heal. Dont dps.
You want to dps...dps. Dont heal.

Digiman · April 2016

Don't think people realize their cheering for this change also means LA is another full damage shield, it may be short but it means you have to keep DPSing harder against 2 full damage shields.

So ultimately this solved nothing, it doesn't address LA survivability it just made it harder against shield stackers especially when said shields are gone in less then 5 seconds.

Laugh it up, cause you lost.

Derra · April 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

why do you buff dks and nbs in the stamina field sooooooo much while they are already the two dominating stamina classes?

I think templars are in a very good place ATM IMHO.

DKs have historically been magicka biased but the goto tank class.
As a resource neutral (light heavy bonus) tank class, it makes sense to get that balance right.
Templars are the man in the middle build with resource/heals, so focus between Magicka/stamina and tank/dps
NB and sorcs ? It stands to reason one should be a stamina dps archetype and one a magicka dps archetype.

So from a class = archetype poit of view...
Tank - stamina/magicka balance - DK
Healer - stamina/magicka balance - Templar
Magicka DPS - Sorc
Stamina DPS - NB

Doesnt stop you picking up a resto for healing.
Doesnt stop you goign 1h+s for tanking.

Giving the sorc massive endless shields makes them a tank + DPS class

IMHO this is all a rationalisation and balancing attempt.
Still dont agree with heal on damage....and never will.
You want to heal...heal. Dont dps.
You want to dps...dps. Dont heal.

Only that shields are even stronger now for tanking purposes.

Magica templar and NB outperform magica sorc dps.
Stam DK outperforms stam NB.