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RIP SORC!
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Adamon2✭✭✭What was ZOS trying to achieve with this change? Did reducing the duration of shields to 6 seconds accomplish this?
If I'm in PVP and getting "pounded on" I'm spamming shields. 6 sec or 26 sec doesn't matter.
If I'm in PVP and getting hit but not so bad, I just have to work my shields more frequently into the rotation. This reduces DPS cause I have to cast shields again instead of a damage skill (shields after 4 damage skills vs shields after 10 damage skills).
If I'm in PVE it's probably more like the PVP in the previous paragraph.
So the only thing this changed was reducing our DPS in longer fights? Was that the problem with sorcs that needed fixing?3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What was ZOS trying to achieve with this change? Did reducing the duration of shields to 6 seconds accomplish this?
If I'm in PVP and getting "pounded on" I'm spamming shields. 6 sec or 26 sec doesn't matter.
If I'm in PVP and getting hit but not so bad, I just have to work my shields more frequently into the rotation. This reduces DPS cause I have to cast shields again instead of a damage skill (shields after 4 damage skills vs shields after 10 damage skills).
If I'm in PVE it's probably more like the PVP in the previous paragraph.
So the only thing this changed was reducing our DPS in longer fights? Was that the problem with sorcs that needed fixing?
Perfect summary of whats happening and the answer is: No.
Sorcs getting a pounding will be even harder to kill. Ppl are going to be so happy. Inb4 next nerf with to be announced DLC in late summer.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No it´s not. Which is why your argument is wrong. As i´ve said i play both classes. You can´t just say casting 4 spells for the same outcome where the other class uses two is the same.
Oversimplified to get the same healing both classes cast:
Shield, rapid reg, siphon, 1st dmg spell <== for sorc
Shield, swallow, swallow, swallow <== for NB
NB has done atleast double the amount of dmg the sorc has in that timeframe (and only if the first cast is a procced frag as everything else is way lower dmg).
Edit: Ofc it´s currently a little different as the shield lasts longer which gives the sorc a lot of breathing room - maybe too much. But 6s will be too little. I don´t want 20s shields back (atleast not for pvp for arena i want them). But maybe 8s on hardened.
No arguing for keeping status quo of live. I´ve been in favor of removing shieldstacking since 1.6. It´s just ZOS approach of a topic always feels out of touch with the actual game.
no not rapid and quick siphon. you only need one or the other. Additionally, you would use one of them to open with then go shield. rapid regen has the advantage of being able to cast on yourself without engaging in combat. Additionally, they have longer durations. Further, the approach to sorc wopuld be different then that of a nb. For instance, sorc can go curse, rapid, shield, damage ability timed with curse equally more damage in that amount burst than a nb. all while haveing the benefit of a shield and rapid still ticking away. A nb approaches it with maybe a dot, shields, swallow soul. more sustain damage less burst. different approaches coming to equally viable ends.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No it´s not. Which is why your argument is wrong. As i´ve said i play both classes. You can´t just say casting 4 spells for the same outcome where the other class uses two is the same.
Oversimplified to get the same healing both classes cast:
Shield, rapid reg, siphon, 1st dmg spell <== for sorc
Shield, swallow, swallow, swallow <== for NB
NB has done atleast double the amount of dmg the sorc has in that timeframe (and only if the first cast is a procced frag as everything else is way lower dmg).
Edit: Ofc it´s currently a little different as the shield lasts longer which gives the sorc a lot of breathing room - maybe too much. But 6s will be too little. I don´t want 20s shields back (atleast not for pvp for arena i want them). But maybe 8s on hardened.
No arguing for keeping status quo of live. I´ve been in favor of removing shieldstacking since 1.6. It´s just ZOS approach of a topic always feels out of touch with the actual game.
no not rapid and quick siphon. you only need one or the other. Additionally, you would use one of them to open with then go shield. rapid regen has the advantage of being able to cast on yourself without engaging in combat. Additionally, they have longer durations. Further, the approach to sorc wopuld be different then that of a nb. For instance, sorc can go curse, rapid, shield, damage ability timed with curse equally more damage in that amount burst than a nb. all while haveing the benefit of a shield and rapid still ticking away. A nb approaches it with maybe a dot, shields, swallow soul. more sustain damage less burst. different approaches coming to equally viable ends.
My NBs noncrit swallow soul more than doubles my sorcs crit rapid regen ticks. When spammed swallow soul heals at the same frequency as rapid (ofc NBs swallow is depending on dmg that´s why i comfortably add refreshing path).
Currently on live i agree. Different approach with the same result though i would say NB burst potential equals that of sorcs with harvest + will.
When NB has the same shield as the sorc effectively? Hell i´m not going to chose my sorc in that scenario.
What are you trying to sell me. I do play both classes you´re discribing and it´s not working the way you say it is. Basically i´m sitting in my yellow car and you´re trying to tell me it´s green.Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 20:36<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No. If health damage is done you either need health regen or a heal to make back what was lost. A shield delays health damage, and if a sorc and nb both took health damage the nb would be the one getting out of the bad position faster with a heal. The sorc would need to keep spamming shields until their regen could get them back up if we are only taking both using 2 skills. Unless of course people now love sorcs spamming shields. Who knew?
Let me clarify. Rapid regen. A sorc using rapid regen or quick siphon.with a shield will heal up roughly has fast as a Nb with a shield and swallow soul since the need to Nb strife.
And nightblades have a choice. They can do different things. How fun is it to have to do something because the alternatives that come from your class choice fail?
a sorc can do different things to. a nb could choose to drop swallow soul forbowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No it´s not. Which is why your argument is wrong. As i´ve said i play both classes. You can´t just say casting 4 spells for the same outcome where the other class uses two is the same.
Oversimplified to get the same healing both classes cast:
Shield, rapid reg, siphon, 1st dmg spell <== for sorc
Shield, swallow, swallow, swallow <== for NB
NB has done atleast double the amount of dmg the sorc has in that timeframe (and only if the first cast is a procced frag as everything else is way lower dmg).
Edit: Ofc it´s currently a little different as the shield lasts longer which gives the sorc a lot of breathing room - maybe too much. But 6s will be too little. I don´t want 20s shields back (atleast not for pvp for arena i want them). But maybe 8s on hardened.
No arguing for keeping status quo of live. I´ve been in favor of removing shieldstacking since 1.6. It´s just ZOS approach of a topic always feels out of touch with the actual game.
no not rapid and quick siphon. you only need one or the other. Additionally, you would use one of them to open with then go shield. rapid regen has the advantage of being able to cast on yourself without engaging in combat. Additionally, they have longer durations. Further, the approach to sorc wopuld be different then that of a nb. For instance, sorc can go curse, rapid, shield, damage ability timed with curse equally more damage in that amount burst than a nb. all while haveing the benefit of a shield and rapid still ticking away. A nb approaches it with maybe a dot, shields, swallow soul. more sustain damage less burst. different approaches coming to equally viable ends.
My NBs noncrit swallow soul more than doubles my sorcs crit rapid regen ticks. When spammed swallow soul heals at the same frequency as rapid (ofc NBs swallow is depending on dmg that´s why i comfortably add refreshing path).
Currently on live i agree. Different approach with the same result though i would say NB burst potential equals that of sorcs with harvest + will.
When NB has the same shield as the sorc effectively? Hell i´m not going to chose my sorc in that scenario.
What are you trying to sell me. I do play both classes you´re discribing and it´s not working the way you say it is. Basically i´m sitting in my yellow car and you´re trying to tell me it´s green.
which is why I said the problem is with sorcs burst right now. I think there is some tinkering that needs to be done with some skills and ults. My point is that shields are in a good spot. it is still a fact that sorcs can stack two reliable shields. Next the focus should be on tweaking other skills such as the other morph of frag. If sorcs burst and skills are tweaked, everything else falls into place.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No. If health damage is done you either need health regen or a heal to make back what was lost. A shield delays health damage, and if a sorc and nb both took health damage the nb would be the one getting out of the bad position faster with a heal. The sorc would need to keep spamming shields until their regen could get them back up if we are only taking both using 2 skills. Unless of course people now love sorcs spamming shields. Who knew?
Let me clarify. Rapid regen. A sorc using rapid regen or quick siphon.with a shield will heal up roughly has fast as a Nb with a shield and swallow soul since the need to Nb strife.
And nightblades have a choice. They can do different things. How fun is it to have to do something because the alternatives that come from your class choice fail?
a sorc can do different things to. a nb could choose to drop swallow soul forbowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No it´s not. Which is why your argument is wrong. As i´ve said i play both classes. You can´t just say casting 4 spells for the same outcome where the other class uses two is the same.
Oversimplified to get the same healing both classes cast:
Shield, rapid reg, siphon, 1st dmg spell <== for sorc
Shield, swallow, swallow, swallow <== for NB
NB has done atleast double the amount of dmg the sorc has in that timeframe (and only if the first cast is a procced frag as everything else is way lower dmg).
Edit: Ofc it´s currently a little different as the shield lasts longer which gives the sorc a lot of breathing room - maybe too much. But 6s will be too little. I don´t want 20s shields back (atleast not for pvp for arena i want them). But maybe 8s on hardened.
No arguing for keeping status quo of live. I´ve been in favor of removing shieldstacking since 1.6. It´s just ZOS approach of a topic always feels out of touch with the actual game.
no not rapid and quick siphon. you only need one or the other. Additionally, you would use one of them to open with then go shield. rapid regen has the advantage of being able to cast on yourself without engaging in combat. Additionally, they have longer durations. Further, the approach to sorc wopuld be different then that of a nb. For instance, sorc can go curse, rapid, shield, damage ability timed with curse equally more damage in that amount burst than a nb. all while haveing the benefit of a shield and rapid still ticking away. A nb approaches it with maybe a dot, shields, swallow soul. more sustain damage less burst. different approaches coming to equally viable ends.
My NBs noncrit swallow soul more than doubles my sorcs crit rapid regen ticks. When spammed swallow soul heals at the same frequency as rapid (ofc NBs swallow is depending on dmg that´s why i comfortably add refreshing path).
Currently on live i agree. Different approach with the same result though i would say NB burst potential equals that of sorcs with harvest + will.
When NB has the same shield as the sorc effectively? Hell i´m not going to chose my sorc in that scenario.
What are you trying to sell me. I do play both classes you´re discribing and it´s not working the way you say it is. Basically i´m sitting in my yellow car and you´re trying to tell me it´s green.
which is why I said the problem is with sorcs burst right now. I think there is some tinkering that needs to be done with some skills and ults. My point is that shields are in a good spot. it is still a fact that sorcs can stack two reliable shields. Next the focus should be on tweaking other skills such as the other morph of frag. If sorcs burst and skills are tweaked, everything else falls into place.
Well then i think we agree. Something with the class is out of place with the shieldchange. Just a different view on where to actually fix it.
In terms of PVE adjusting DPS outside of overload is definetly needed so yours is a valid option too.
Edit: I still don´t think shields are fine. They will still be too strong when multiple people attacking someone only casting shields imho.Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 21:05<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭Addressing Hardened Ward in a way that does not remove Battle Spirit nerfing of shields is just plan lazy.
This is a quick "fix". Not a good one.
I HATE magicka sorcs ... that said Hardened Ward didn't need its duration changed. It need it scaling changed.
The fact that it is based of a stat that is MAXED when min/maxing DPS means max dps=max damage mitigation. There is no glass cannon. You can spend your CP to boost both at the same time too. There is no trade off and that leaves a shield that is so HUGE in PVE on a DPS character that in PVP must be nerfed. Instead of fixing the way the skill is scaled (while maintaining its usefulness) ZOS picked the lazy fix and nerfed all Shields, even the ones based on Health. (All magicka based shield need to be scaled differently).
BOL has suffered several nerfs, while never addressing the actual issue with BOL and healing. IT'S TO DAMN POWERFUL IN PVE, and there fore to powerful in PVP. ZOS needs to stop being lazy and actually balance skills so that Battle Spirit nerfing becomes a thing of the past and then classes can TRULY BE BALANCED. Giving more Healing to classes negatively effected by Battle spirit nerf of healing (DK and Sorc w/ TG) doesn't fix the issue at its core. The Templar class has received attention in the opposite direction. Our healing doesn't get balanced so others doesn't need buffed. We simply lost all defensive skills while having our DPS raised to be on par with all other classes. Homogenization at it's worst.
They choose not to address shield stacking, which would have required some more work. They could have done it 1 of a dozen ways suggested on the forums that would have been a REAL fix and an actual IMPROVEMENT on the game but instead they did the easiest thing possible. Change all duration to 6. What did that take? 15mins?
These issues have changed, and IMO ruined, the very identity of the Templar class. Now it might alter the Sorc class in away that leaves you looking for another class to call home. Good luck.1 -
TiberX✭✭✭✭Funny thing is that ZOS feels sorcs need nerfs but NB are OK!
Thats shocking TBH Officer of Ghosts and Goblins0 -
RoxyPhoenix✭✭✭✭I blame the non life elite players! Those forever shield stacking super Sorcerers, those bol spamming bringing themselves from nearly death Templars, those perma blocking laughing at ur dmg Dragonknights, those cowardly vanishing meta burst Nighblades and all those dodge rollers, shufflers, snipers, ambushers, fraggers, jabbers, reflecters, tornado users who utilized their in-game given assets beyond the usual pug understanding.
A little sarcasm to make you guys cheer up a bit.
And on a more serious note, at this moment you all kinda know whats the future meta gonna look like, if nothing gets changed you still got a month or so to prepare urself a new build or a new char and have some more fun, cus at the end of the day its all about fun, innit ?2 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »With sorcs running around with 50k magicka, 2k regen, those shield nerfs were needed.
Did we all just forget that harness magicka now absorbs ALL DAMAGE?.
Sorcs, you now have 3 shields, ALL of which absorb ALL DAMAGE ffs.
except u can't cast 3 together... if u did... you'd only be casting shields...and no attacks
but let me guess... you still have a problem with them not attack and casting shields right?
Damn OP sorcs still living <.< they need to die faster.
Casting shields can proc frags which can kill on its own with a curse. So curse shields and drag on procs you take no damage and deal high damage.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
Pallio✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread breaks down into two groups:
People that don't play sorc and hate their shields..
And people that used to play Sorc and now hate ZOS.8 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
That was the reason I omitted shields from the sorc's survival toolkit, since everyone has them now (I was talking about UNIQUE class skills.) Not to mention that other classes (with superior passive healing) synergizes better with short duration universal shields.
Resto staves are not the answer since sorcs don't have a class dps spammable, and they'll need to switch bars to do healing (we all know how reliable switching bars is.) Anyone can slot annulment on any bars regardless of weapons. Finally, resto staves do provide a BoL-type replacement, but funnel/jabs/embers still provide reliable healing during damage that are unique to those classes.
Sorcs still have the longest shield. And you can't just omit shields from Sorcs tolls just because everyone has one now. It still remains that Sorcs have more which is for some reason being completely understated in this topic. Additionally, I don't believe in giving every class a variation of the same attacks. Also, jabs are unreliable. Dk heals are alright but still require melee range. Nb heal just got nerfed (rightly fully so imo). Additionally, swallow soul doesn't kill anyone. That build requires a burst combo to bring people down. Again, a sorcs can get hot from quick siphon and r rapid regen. Your failure to want to go outside your build to equip these skills is your fault. Additionally, sorcs don't rely on spamming an attack. A sorcs is built for timed bust damage. Perhaps if this is not your playstyle you should play another class. Why should a class change to tailor your playstyle?
Quick siphon? LOL. If you knew how that spell worked, you would have never suggested such a thing. You are spending far too much time here telling other sorcs how to play. From what you have typed in this thread, it's evident you are hardly the expert on sorcerers.Edited by Joy_Division on 30 April 2016 14:32Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.5 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
That was the reason I omitted shields from the sorc's survival toolkit, since everyone has them now (I was talking about UNIQUE class skills.) Not to mention that other classes (with superior passive healing) synergizes better with short duration universal shields.
Resto staves are not the answer since sorcs don't have a class dps spammable, and they'll need to switch bars to do healing (we all know how reliable switching bars is.) Anyone can slot annulment on any bars regardless of weapons. Finally, resto staves do provide a BoL-type replacement, but funnel/jabs/embers still provide reliable healing during damage that are unique to those classes.
Sorcs still have the longest shield. And you can't just omit shields from Sorcs tolls just because everyone has one now. It still remains that Sorcs have more which is for some reason being completely understated in this topic. Additionally, I don't believe in giving every class a variation of the same attacks. Also, jabs are unreliable. Dk heals are alright but still require melee range. Nb heal just got nerfed (rightly fully so imo). Additionally, swallow soul doesn't kill anyone. That build requires a burst combo to bring people down. Again, a sorcs can get hot from quick siphon and r rapid regen. Your failure to want to go outside your build to equip these skills is your fault. Additionally, sorcs don't rely on spamming an attack. A sorcs is built for timed bust damage. Perhaps if this is not your playstyle you should play another class. Why should a class change to tailor your playstyle?
Quick siphon? LOL. If you knew how that spell worked, you would have never suggested such a thing. You are spending far too much time here telling other sorcs how to play. From what you have typed in this thread, it's evident you are hardly the expert on sorcerers.
ya, i actually enjoy that skill. I know how it works. There are a couple builds i run with that skill. See, the issue is everyone trying to run the same setup all the time. Diversify a little more and you would learn how to use skills like quick siphon to your advantage and reliably. The refusal to got outside the fotm build for a particular class is the fault of the players, not zos.
I am simply providing alternatives for people who seem to think a 6 second shield is the end all be all for sorcs. I am sorry that I dont rely on fotm builds to "do it all." Im sorry that when i see a change I adapt. Im sorry that i use other skills outside of the same 5 everyone uses and am still very viable. I am sorry that I am willing to change my builds around in order to cover weaknesses. o wait......no im not.
From what I have read in this thread it is obvious how many sorcs want to run what they want to run without wanting any weakness to that playstyle. People want their class to have everything the other clasees have. Might as well have one class then.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
That was the reason I omitted shields from the sorc's survival toolkit, since everyone has them now (I was talking about UNIQUE class skills.) Not to mention that other classes (with superior passive healing) synergizes better with short duration universal shields.
Resto staves are not the answer since sorcs don't have a class dps spammable, and they'll need to switch bars to do healing (we all know how reliable switching bars is.) Anyone can slot annulment on any bars regardless of weapons. Finally, resto staves do provide a BoL-type replacement, but funnel/jabs/embers still provide reliable healing during damage that are unique to those classes.
Sorcs still have the longest shield. And you can't just omit shields from Sorcs tolls just because everyone has one now. It still remains that Sorcs have more which is for some reason being completely understated in this topic. Additionally, I don't believe in giving every class a variation of the same attacks. Also, jabs are unreliable. Dk heals are alright but still require melee range. Nb heal just got nerfed (rightly fully so imo). Additionally, swallow soul doesn't kill anyone. That build requires a burst combo to bring people down. Again, a sorcs can get hot from quick siphon and r rapid regen. Your failure to want to go outside your build to equip these skills is your fault. Additionally, sorcs don't rely on spamming an attack. A sorcs is built for timed bust damage. Perhaps if this is not your playstyle you should play another class. Why should a class change to tailor your playstyle?
Quick siphon? LOL. If you knew how that spell worked, you would have never suggested such a thing. You are spending far too much time here telling other sorcs how to play. From what you have typed in this thread, it's evident you are hardly the expert on sorcerers.
ya, i actually enjoy that skill. I know how it works. There are a couple builds i run with that skill. See, the issue is everyone trying to run the same setup all the time. Diversify a little more and you would learn how to use skills like quick siphon to your advantage and reliably. The refusal to got outside the fotm build for a particular class is the fault of the players, not zos.
I am simply providing alternatives for people who seem to think a 6 second shield is the end all be all for sorcs. I am sorry that I dont rely on fotm builds to "do it all." Im sorry that when i see a change I adapt. Im sorry that i use other skills outside of the same 5 everyone uses and am still very viable. I am sorry that I am willing to change my builds around in order to cover weaknesses. o wait......no im not.
From what I have read in this thread it is obvious how many sorcs want to run what they want to run without wanting any weakness to that playstyle. People want their class to have everything the other clasees have. Might as well have one class then.
Well, everyone are already getting hardened ward, so we're well on our way to get one class as you say. Now we just need wings, cloak and BoL available to everyone and it's complete.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Rakkul✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Sorcs tears are TASTY! So many cry babies and quiters because no more op shields stacking....
As you like to say to us, magicka dk`s " GET GOOD"
Stop copy pasting something without actually checking it out.
There will be more Shield stacking, not less.
In pvp Sorc shields never lasted 20 secs, they were getting refreshed every few seconds - nothing will change in regard to this.
Only now you'll see more shields.
If The DB changes where intended to prevent shield stacking, this ain't gonna do it.
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bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
That was the reason I omitted shields from the sorc's survival toolkit, since everyone has them now (I was talking about UNIQUE class skills.) Not to mention that other classes (with superior passive healing) synergizes better with short duration universal shields.
Resto staves are not the answer since sorcs don't have a class dps spammable, and they'll need to switch bars to do healing (we all know how reliable switching bars is.) Anyone can slot annulment on any bars regardless of weapons. Finally, resto staves do provide a BoL-type replacement, but funnel/jabs/embers still provide reliable healing during damage that are unique to those classes.
Sorcs still have the longest shield. And you can't just omit shields from Sorcs tolls just because everyone has one now. It still remains that Sorcs have more which is for some reason being completely understated in this topic. Additionally, I don't believe in giving every class a variation of the same attacks. Also, jabs are unreliable. Dk heals are alright but still require melee range. Nb heal just got nerfed (rightly fully so imo). Additionally, swallow soul doesn't kill anyone. That build requires a burst combo to bring people down. Again, a sorcs can get hot from quick siphon and r rapid regen. Your failure to want to go outside your build to equip these skills is your fault. Additionally, sorcs don't rely on spamming an attack. A sorcs is built for timed bust damage. Perhaps if this is not your playstyle you should play another class. Why should a class change to tailor your playstyle?
Quick siphon? LOL. If you knew how that spell worked, you would have never suggested such a thing. You are spending far too much time here telling other sorcs how to play. From what you have typed in this thread, it's evident you are hardly the expert on sorcerers.
ya, i actually enjoy that skill. I know how it works. There are a couple builds i run with that skill. See, the issue is everyone trying to run the same setup all the time. Diversify a little more and you would learn how to use skills like quick siphon to your advantage and reliably. The refusal to got outside the fotm build for a particular class is the fault of the players, not zos.
I am simply providing alternatives for people who seem to think a 6 second shield is the end all be all for sorcs. I am sorry that I dont rely on fotm builds to "do it all." Im sorry that when i see a change I adapt. Im sorry that i use other skills outside of the same 5 everyone uses and am still very viable. I am sorry that I am willing to change my builds around in order to cover weaknesses. o wait......no im not.
From what I have read in this thread it is obvious how many sorcs want to run what they want to run without wanting any weakness to that playstyle. People want their class to have everything the other clasees have. Might as well have one class then.
Well, everyone are already getting hardened ward, so we're well on our way to get one class as you say. Now we just need wings, cloak and BoL available to everyone and it's complete.
Yes and I find that concerning. I believe it was an attempt to further balance Stam and mag. Imo, annulment should be reduced to 6 seconds but otherwise remain as is. The new Stam shield should only stop physical based damage. That way you still have a shield for both with strengths and weaknesses without stepping on sorcs.
However, I can also differentiate from giving a shield to everyone and not the other skills you mention. Sorcs can still stack shields like no one else and the longest shieldd. Resulting in sorcs skills supplementing the mag shield. Giving everyone a bold, wings, and. Cloak would not allow the respective class to also usee their skill to supplement the skill given to all. Meaning, a sorcs can stack shields but a player can't stack burst heals or go extra invisible etc.overall. although I don't fully agree with the change to the mitigation of shields on some level, adding a shield to everyone as still a biff to sorcs because they can stack shields even better.0 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Sorcs tears are TASTY! So many cry babies and quiters because no more op shields stacking....
As you like to say to us, magicka dk`s " GET GOOD"
Stop copy pasting something without actually checking it out.
There will be more Shield stacking, not less.
In pvp Sorc shields never lasted 20 secs, they were getting refreshed every few seconds - nothing will change in regard to this.
Only now you'll see more shields.
If The DB changes where intended to prevent shield stacking, this ain't gonna do it.
Can recast ONE, cant stack 3 .... with 6 sec duration and 3 shields to keep up, even if they are insta cast, there are global cooldown / if you even know what it means. Just wait and you will see . Or go to PTS and test it. AND for what copy paste you talk about! (is not a question)Edited by Runkorko on 30 April 2016 19:570 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Sorcs tears are TASTY! So many cry babies and quiters because no more op shields stacking....
As you like to say to us, magicka dk`s " GET GOOD"
Stop copy pasting something without actually checking it out.
There will be more Shield stacking, not less.
In pvp Sorc shields never lasted 20 secs, they were getting refreshed every few seconds - nothing will change in regard to this.
Only now you'll see more shields.
If The DB changes where intended to prevent shield stacking, this ain't gonna do it.
Can recast ONE, cant stack 3 .... with 6 sec duration and 3 shields to keep up, even if they are insta cast, there are global cooldown / if you even know what it means. Just wait and you will see . Or go to PTS and test it. AND for what copy paste you talk about! (is not a question)
You can cast 3 in that duration and people do on the pts. Asditionally, for those that shield stack the 8 second duration is better because you can get 2 shields up and still have 6 sec offensive time. The difference now is that there is a detriment to shield stacking. If you stack multiple shields, then you lose offense the more you stack. It is a good trade off. Either high defense or high offense. It is no longer the beat of both worlds. That said, the ability to still have high offense and defense is still there if you are skilled enough to time everything properly.1 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »The difference now is that there is a detriment to shield stacking. If you stack multiple shields, then you lose offense the more you stack. It is a good trade off. Either high defense or high offense. It is no longer the beat of both worlds. That said, the ability to still have high offense and defense is still there if you are skilled enough to time everything properly.
cant agree more. If you do fine withs sorc will be because you are skilled player, not because of op shields/ like in live version/ and i dont say there is no good sorcs.
Edited by Runkorko on 30 April 2016 22:020 -
NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Well, we all know that Zenimax just can't balance at all. They're really just incompetent at anything else than nice storylines and shiny effects, any balance is thrown out the window for the next shiny crown store item that costs 5k crowns each (hello merchant and banker). We got the power creep that just keeps going up more and more, PvP is just a major gankfest and PvE is just all about dps.
Niether of which we can compete with now.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »With sorcs running around with 50k magicka, 2k regen, those shield nerfs were needed.
Did we all just forget that harness magicka now absorbs ALL DAMAGE?.
Sorcs, you now have 3 shields, ALL of which absorb ALL DAMAGE ffs.
except u can't cast 3 together... if u did... you'd only be casting shields...and no attacks
but let me guess... you still have a problem with them not attack and casting shields right?
Damn OP sorcs still living <.< they need to die faster.
Casting shields can proc frags which can kill on its own with a curse. So curse shields and drag on procs you take no damage and deal high damage.
The only person ur killing with a curse and frag combo soly is a complete noobie. Besides with boneshield and harness magicka making it's way into the rotations that isn't going to happen. and against say a templar with purge and eclipse it's already bad enough. give them shields on top of that...or mistform/shuffle... it's definetly a bad day for any sorc.650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
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NativeJoe✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Sorcs tears are TASTY! So many cry babies and quiters because no more op shields stacking....
As you like to say to us, magicka dk`s " GET GOOD"
Stop copy pasting something without actually checking it out.
There will be more Shield stacking, not less.
In pvp Sorc shields never lasted 20 secs, they were getting refreshed every few seconds - nothing will change in regard to this.
Only now you'll see more shields.
If The DB changes where intended to prevent shield stacking, this ain't gonna do it.
Can recast ONE, cant stack 3 .... with 6 sec duration and 3 shields to keep up, even if they are insta cast, there are global cooldown / if you even know what it means. Just wait and you will see . Or go to PTS and test it. AND for what copy paste you talk about! (is not a question)
You can cast 3 in that duration and people do on the pts. Asditionally, for those that shield stack the 8 second duration is better because you can get 2 shields up and still have 6 sec offensive time. The difference now is that there is a detriment to shield stacking. If you stack multiple shields, then you lose offense the more you stack. It is a good trade off. Either high defense or high offense. It is no longer the beat of both worlds. That said, the ability to still have high offense and defense is still there if you are skilled enough to time everything properly.
And I guess im not skilled enough then... because I get my face rolled on pts.
On live I think im in a good place, and put alot of thought into my various builds. All of them except the absolute most cookie cutter build there is feel absolutely destroyed. But I guess your right. 90 days played, every dungeon done, and pvping in azura/haderous/trueflame for a year on 1 character and I am still nothing but a skill-less sorc. Thanks.
It couldn't be that this nerf is destroying diversity. it couldn't be the crazyness they've introduced this patch in making all of our opponents have our only mitigation technique + their own. classes stuff. And for everyone saying Hey it's 6 seconds...you should be able to recast every 6 seconds endlessly.... Well that doesn't help if your feared, stunned, etc. it doesn't help when ur running from point A to point B.
I'll say it again...This doesn't effect the Cookie cutter builds... it may even be a buff to them.
But to every other build it has a massive effect on. Just like proxy has a massive apparently unforseen affect on true pet builds ie 125% more damage.
90% of the people in here apparently believe if your not packing a resto staff and destro staff combo and running around doing the Curse/streak/frag/entropy/ combo and mine/proxy/mages wrath or variations of intense triple shield stacking magicka burn-burst builds you are a failure of a sorc. there were other more interesting and definitely alot more fun ways to play previous to this DB patch.
What about pve too? Why are they destroying my Tank build? 6 second shield? some of the stuns I receive since my stamina is like 9k stun me for longer then that. the delicate balance of playing a shield tank sorc is pretty much out of the question now. (you can't rely on heals from a Templar or whatever, it's about managing your resources and dodge/block/streak as many attacks are one shots, and all of them absolutely are without shields)
We don't have the passives, and sustain to effectively heal... WE can burst heal... we can shield others... but thats about as much as we can do in this department.
DPS in pve we;re the bottom of the barrel. You know we're literally going to have to remove shields from our bars to actually pve dps effectively. So the things that make sorcs...sorcs are steadily disappearing. I already don't use streak simply because gap closers make it ineffective, and it is to expensive to truly make use of... So now what im left with is... .... idk wtf you'd call it... a gutted non stealth NB?
All of this is unsatisfactory.Edited by NativeJoe on 1 May 2016 18:06650cp+ Sorcerer 100+ days /played
Broken'Stick North American Server
https://www.twitch.tv/trixytricks4 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »Sorcs tears are TASTY! So many cry babies and quiters because no more op shields stacking....
As you like to say to us, magicka dk`s " GET GOOD"
Stop copy pasting something without actually checking it out.
There will be more Shield stacking, not less.
In pvp Sorc shields never lasted 20 secs, they were getting refreshed every few seconds - nothing will change in regard to this.
Only now you'll see more shields.
If The DB changes where intended to prevent shield stacking, this ain't gonna do it.
Can recast ONE, cant stack 3 .... with 6 sec duration and 3 shields to keep up, even if they are insta cast, there are global cooldown / if you even know what it means. Just wait and you will see . Or go to PTS and test it. AND for what copy paste you talk about! (is not a question)
You can cast 3 in that duration and people do on the pts. Asditionally, for those that shield stack the 8 second duration is better because you can get 2 shields up and still have 6 sec offensive time. The difference now is that there is a detriment to shield stacking. If you stack multiple shields, then you lose offense the more you stack. It is a good trade off. Either high defense or high offense. It is no longer the beat of both worlds. That said, the ability to still have high offense and defense is still there if you are skilled enough to time everything properly.
And I guess im not skilled enough then... because I get my face rolled on pts.
On live I think im in a good place, and put alot of thought into my various builds. All of them except the absolute most cookie cutter build there is feel absolutely destroyed. But I guess your right. 90 days played, every dungeon done, and pvping in azura/haderous/trueflame for a year on 1 character and I am still nothing but a skill-less sorc. Thanks.
It couldn't be that this nerf is destroying diversity. it couldn't be the crazyness they've introduced this patch in making all of our opponents have our only mitigation technique + their own. classes stuff. And for everyone saying Hey it's 6 seconds...you should be able to recast every 6 seconds endlessly.... Well that doesn't help if your feared, stunned, etc. it doesn't help when ur running from point A to point B.
I'll say it again...This doesn't effect the Cookie cutter builds... it may even be a buff to them.
But to every other build it has a massive effect on. Just like proxy has a massive apparently unforseen affect on true pet builds ie 125% more damage.
90% of the people in here apparently believe if your not packing a resto staff and destro staff combo and running around doing the Curse/streak/frag/entropy/ combo and mine/proxy/mages wrath or variations of intense triple shield stacking magicka burn-burst builds you are a failure of a sorc. there were other more interesting and definitely alot more fun ways to play previous to this DB patch.
What about pve too? Why are they destroying my Tank build? 6 second shield? some of the stuns I receive since my stamina is like 9k stun me for longer then that. the delicate balance of playing a shield tank sorc is pretty much out of the question now. (you can't rely on heals from a Templar or whatever, it's about managing your resources and dodge/block/streak as many attacks are one shots, and all of them absolutely are without shields)
We don't have the passives, and sustain to effectively heal... WE can burst heal... we can shield others... but thats about as much as we can do in this department.
DPS in pve we;re the bottom of the barrel. You know we're literally going to have to remove shields from our bars to actually pve dps effectively. So the things that make sorcs...sorcs are steadily disappearing. I already don't use streak simply because gap closers make it ineffective, and it is to expensive to truly make use of... So now what im left with is... .... idk wtf you'd call it... a gutted non stealth NB?
All of this is unsatisfactory.
Well said but I think we all know where this is going. On to the next campaign, the "Nerf Stamina DK" campaign what was ZOS thinking buffing a playstyle that was already the highest dps in the at current pulling 40 - 46k dps on bosses in dungeons.
#Staminakingmeta0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭What are you talking about? Sorcs shields are even more OP now with the extra psychical damage mitigation from shield stacking the new DB annulment buff. I am sure the Sorcs 40k magicka from not having to run the impenetrable trait in PvP (due to shields not being able to be crittable) will be fine with the extra shield recasts. And don't even get me started on PvE; that is what healers are for. Besides, how many sorcs while engaged in combat in PvP only reapply shields every 6+ seconds LOL... If you are answered you do, then your class is OP. @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_FinnEdited by Justice31st on 1 May 2016 21:13"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Justice31st wrote: »What are you talking about? Sorcs shields are even more OP now with the extra psychical damage mitigation from shield stacking the new DB annulment buff. I am sure the Sorcs 40k magicka from not having to run the impenetrable trait in PvP (due to shields not being able to be crittable) will be fine with the extra shield recasts. And don't even get me started on PvE; that is what healers are for. Besides, how many sorcs while engaged in combat in PvP only reapply shields every 6+ seconds LOL... If you are answered you do, then your class is OP. @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_Finn
Already been addressed multiple times. at least skim previous posts so you're not chirping the same repetitive crap over and over.Invictus0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The sorcs that ran 3 wards on the back bar are no longer able to do that and attack. 3 abilities + bar switch means only 2 seconds for 3, so spam bush (or any gap closer) will be mitigated by a ward (hopefully the almost dead one), then hopefully a CC break by the sorc.
At this point one ward is gone, more than likely especially if sorc is to attack, then second and third ward are gone, at most 1 sec left to switch bars and re apply wards.
Completely unviable.
Builds that ran only one ward on each bar are primarily unchanged.
To those whom say, "impenetrable! more health!" we do not have the buffs or the passives you do that make your build able to take direct hits like that. It takes everything to get to 35k health for a sorc and even then we have no heal that can compare, that two extra hits do not help us. Especially for what we would have to sacrifice3 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People underestimate how powerful a good heal is, one that you don't need to wait six seconds to activate, or slot a resto staff to use, or having a cloak that allows you to heal right up.
Sorc doesn't have a good class heal. If it did you could take the shields away and we wouldn't care.Edited by Minalan on 2 May 2016 07:392
