ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

K

Valkanos wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Ulfsild + Pulsar combo easily kills a regular pack of 32k mobs.

HA is at good spot atm. Have pure NB with stats:
42k+ HP
30k resistances + major evasion
17k pen
63k+ DPS 3m parse (rotation: Surprise + HA + HA, repeate)
6k HPS and 16k burst (crit)
Infinite mag and stam sustain (no potions)

It's a mirracle ZOS didn't nerf it yet.

63k DPS only? Did you miss half your HA on the dummy? Because that seems really low. Post a screenshot of the parse so the experts can have a look and give you some free tips on how to keep pressing that one button. It really shouldn’t be this complicated.

"3m parse".. I assume that's not on a trial dummy so no group buffs/debuffs present.

Have no idea about all that trial dummy hype. Most of you have never been, and probably never will be, in a group that actually provides that many buffs.

Valkanos wrote: »

With 63k DPS on an HA build? You’re right. They probably will never make it. And if 63k is their HA parse, I can only imagine what their 2bar parse looks like... 23k maybe? That’s pretty good, I believe.

63k is solo parse on 3 mil dummy with no buffs. That build is for soloing vet dlc dungeons. On trial dummy it will be something like 110k.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I know a guildee that has specialised in 1 bar builds, and does very well indeed; their 1 bar warden was particularly effective.

Have played 1 bar sorc, and 2 bar arcanist, and I disagree with a poster here that the arc is more ‘complicated’ to play. It really is not.

I don’t understand the 1 bar hatred. Anything that enables players to access parts of the game that previously were very ‘gatekept’ is good.

There are complaints here about the lack of players doing trials - well what do you expect if there are people preventing others from joining, rather than encouraging? Trial leads that ask for unrealistic top tier damage based on what they have seen on a stream are not helpful.

1 bars gave some players a chance to join, and do decent damage. So what is the issue?

I am genuinely curious, if anyone cares to enlighten me, what the skill curve of playing a 1-bar or HA build is. Like I said, I have not played such a build— my experience with 1-bar is limited to an only-jabs build, werewolf, and leveling in Skyreach. I know from personal experience (of mid-top parsing in content and attempting to be good at parsing on the dummy. Key word is attempting, I always fail to reach the peak of damage.) that arcanist has the potential to be more complicated than it’s been portrayed as on this thread. Reducing arcanist to “pressing two buttons” doesn’t make for a GOOD arcanist. I didn’t even mention builds specific for trash and burning, which HA builds cannot do since they have to use HA-boosting sets.

In return, I will answer the trial question. Midgame is said to have died long ago. There are certainly still guilds who do midgame, but I suppose it is less prevalent. What this means is less people willing to prog with low dps and low skill players (a stereotype of HA builds), proportionally more people want to get an easy, clean clear. It’s a video game, no one’s being paid to teach people, so it is an unrealistic expectation for people to suffer in a prog they do not want for a stranger.

The stereotype is based in experience: HA players getting very defensive and refusing to change anything about their build, lacking skill (such as standing behind the healer even when told to stand in front of the healer), and lacking damage (whether due to the state of the build or because the wielder has edited the standard build to be worse). The tension on the forums about HA and oakensoul only further this problem, but I also recognize my part in that as well. Of course, people know stereotypes do not apply to everyone… but between two strangers, would they pick the HA player? Perhaps not. I don’t know how the stereotype problem gets resolved but first step is in recognizing it and second step is in understanding why it exists.

Valkanos wrote: »

You see, this is exactly why asking for HA builds to be nerfed doesn't make much sense... at least not to me.
This guy, RD, usually plays a Necro 2bars build and has good DPS, probably more than most 1bar players. And yet... here he is, excluding players simply because their builds are considered "trash".
He doesn't ask if they know the mechanics. He doesn't ask about their experience. No. He asks for DPS!!! Amazing...
And then people say, "ESO is nice". It is... when players have high DPS or use 2bar builds. That's it.
That's what ESO is. Nothing else: toxic elitism masking itself as group management." as @Magic_Charmer said.

@Valkanos
Thanks for the shout-out and for bringing a concrete example to the table. That screenshot perfectly proves my point. It is heartbreaking to see how the Group Finder is being used to gatekeep content based purely on a dummy parse rather than player skill, mechanics knowledge, or cooperation.

When a game turns into a spreadsheet check where "off-meta" equals "trash", the community loses its soul. Thanks for standing up against this toxic trend.

Valkanos wrote: »

You see, this is exactly why asking for HA builds to be nerfed doesn't make much sense... at least not to me.
This guy, RD, usually plays a Necro 2bars build and has good DPS, probably more than most 1bar players. And yet... here he is, excluding players simply because their builds are considered "trash".
He doesn't ask if they know the mechanics. He doesn't ask about their experience. No. He asks for DPS!!! Amazing...
And then people say, "ESO is nice". It is... when players have high DPS or use 2bar builds. That's it.
That's what ESO is. Nothing else: toxic elitism masking itself as group management." as @Magic_Charmer said.

The screenshot shared by @Valkanos should make everyone reflect on what this community is becoming. Seeing a Group Finder listing that explicitly excludes players solely because they run a Heavy Attack build is disheartening.

It’s no longer about "managing group efficiency" or asking if a player knows the mechanics. It has degenerated into an arbitrary, toxic filter. A build is just a tool, but some people treat it as a metric of human worth in this game.

What makes this behavior truly cruel is who it hurts the most. Heavy Attack and 1-bar builds are not just a "lazy choice"—for many, they are an accessibility lifeline. They allow casual players, solo adventurers, older gamers, and people with physical or neurological disabilities to actually participate in endgame content that would otherwise be locked away due to high-intensity rotation requirements.

When the elite tier of this community decides to mass-ban HA builds based on a stereotype, they aren't protecting the integrity of a trial run; they are actively alienating human beings. They are telling a portion of the player base: "We don’t care if you know the mechanics, we don't care if you survive—your presence is 'trash' because you don't play the way we want you to."

The recent AoE nerfs were already a heavy blow from the developers, but the weaponization of those nerfs by the player base to enforce toxic gatekeeping is much worse. We need to remember that there is a person behind the screen. Distinguish the players by their attitude and execution, not by the tool they choose to use.

Soarora wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I know a guildee that has specialised in 1 bar builds, and does very well indeed; their 1 bar warden was particularly effective.

Have played 1 bar sorc, and 2 bar arcanist, and I disagree with a poster here that the arc is more ‘complicated’ to play. It really is not.

I don’t understand the 1 bar hatred. Anything that enables players to access parts of the game that previously were very ‘gatekept’ is good.

There are complaints here about the lack of players doing trials - well what do you expect if there are people preventing others from joining, rather than encouraging? Trial leads that ask for unrealistic top tier damage based on what they have seen on a stream are not helpful.

1 bars gave some players a chance to join, and do decent damage. So what is the issue?

I am genuinely curious, if anyone cares to enlighten me, what the skill curve of playing a 1-bar or HA build is. Like I said, I have not played such a build— my experience with 1-bar is limited to an only-jabs build, werewolf, and leveling in Skyreach. I know from personal experience (of mid-top parsing in content and attempting to be good at parsing on the dummy. Key word is attempting, I always fail to reach the peak of damage.) that arcanist has the potential to be more complicated than it’s been portrayed as on this thread. Reducing arcanist to “pressing two buttons” doesn’t make for a GOOD arcanist. I didn’t even mention builds specific for trash and burning, which HA builds cannot do since they have to use HA-boosting sets.

In return, I will answer the trial question. Midgame is said to have died long ago. There are certainly still guilds who do midgame, but I suppose it is less prevalent. What this means is less people willing to prog with low dps and low skill players (a stereotype of HA builds), proportionally more people want to get an easy, clean clear. It’s a video game, no one’s being paid to teach people, so it is an unrealistic expectation for people to suffer in a prog they do not want for a stranger.

The stereotype is based in experience: HA players getting very defensive and refusing to change anything about their build, lacking skill (such as standing behind the healer even when told to stand in front of the healer), and lacking damage (whether due to the state of the build or because the wielder has edited the standard build to be worse). The tension on the forums about HA and oakensoul only further this problem, but I also recognize my part in that as well. Of course, people know stereotypes do not apply to everyone… but between two strangers, would they pick the HA player? Perhaps not. I don’t know how the stereotype problem gets resolved but first step is in recognizing it and second step is in understanding why it exists.

Exactly as expected. It didn't take long for someone to jump in and try to rationalize the blatant discrimination shown in that screenshot.
@Soarora , your argument about "midgame progression" and "not being paid to teach strangers" is a textbook strawman argument. You are shifting the goalposts to hide a toxic attitude behind a mask of pragmatism.
Look at that screenshot again.
Carefully.
RD is not filtering people based on their clear history, their knowledge of the mechanics, or even their actual in-game performance. He is blanket-banning an entire build archetype regardless of the player's individual skill or actual DPS output.
To justify this by saying "HA players are stereotyped as low skill, lazy, and bad at positioning" is pure prejudice.
A bad, lazy, or stubborn player will fail mechanics, ignore the healer, and wipe the group whether they are using a 1-bar Heavy Attack setup or a hyper-optimized 2-bar meta rotation.
Blaming the build for a player's attitude is a lazy excuse to practice gatekeeping.
By defending this behavior, you are confirming exactly what we've been saying: the absolute hatred toward HA builds isn't about numbers, efficiency, or group safety anymore. It is a purely emotional, elitist gatekeeping.
Some people are just deeply bothered by the fact that someone else can clear content by playing differently, and they use these pathetic, unverified stereotypes to protect their digital ego.
When a community prefers a rigid spreadsheet check over evaluating actual player capability, it doesn't look "hardcore"—it just looks incredibly toxic.

Magic_Charmer wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I know a guildee that has specialised in 1 bar builds, and does very well indeed; their 1 bar warden was particularly effective.

Have played 1 bar sorc, and 2 bar arcanist, and I disagree with a poster here that the arc is more ‘complicated’ to play. It really is not.

I don’t understand the 1 bar hatred. Anything that enables players to access parts of the game that previously were very ‘gatekept’ is good.

There are complaints here about the lack of players doing trials - well what do you expect if there are people preventing others from joining, rather than encouraging? Trial leads that ask for unrealistic top tier damage based on what they have seen on a stream are not helpful.

1 bars gave some players a chance to join, and do decent damage. So what is the issue?

I am genuinely curious, if anyone cares to enlighten me, what the skill curve of playing a 1-bar or HA build is. Like I said, I have not played such a build— my experience with 1-bar is limited to an only-jabs build, werewolf, and leveling in Skyreach. I know from personal experience (of mid-top parsing in content and attempting to be good at parsing on the dummy. Key word is attempting, I always fail to reach the peak of damage.) that arcanist has the potential to be more complicated than it’s been portrayed as on this thread. Reducing arcanist to “pressing two buttons” doesn’t make for a GOOD arcanist. I didn’t even mention builds specific for trash and burning, which HA builds cannot do since they have to use HA-boosting sets.

In return, I will answer the trial question. Midgame is said to have died long ago. There are certainly still guilds who do midgame, but I suppose it is less prevalent. What this means is less people willing to prog with low dps and low skill players (a stereotype of HA builds), proportionally more people want to get an easy, clean clear. It’s a video game, no one’s being paid to teach people, so it is an unrealistic expectation for people to suffer in a prog they do not want for a stranger.

The stereotype is based in experience: HA players getting very defensive and refusing to change anything about their build, lacking skill (such as standing behind the healer even when told to stand in front of the healer), and lacking damage (whether due to the state of the build or because the wielder has edited the standard build to be worse). The tension on the forums about HA and oakensoul only further this problem, but I also recognize my part in that as well. Of course, people know stereotypes do not apply to everyone… but between two strangers, would they pick the HA player? Perhaps not. I don’t know how the stereotype problem gets resolved but first step is in recognizing it and second step is in understanding why it exists.

@Soarora
I completely understand your point about midgame progression and the frustration of dealing with players who refuse to learn mechanics or listen to callouts. Those are valid issues, but they are player issues, not build issues.

A toxic or lazy player will be a liability whether they wield a 1-bar Heavy Attack build or a complex 2-bar meta setup. By automatically filtering out HA players based on a stereotype, groups are missing out on reliable, survival-oriented players who can easily clear the content.

The core of the problem is that this recent nerf didn't just lower the skill ceiling—it completely shattered the AoE viability for casual, solo, or disabled players who relied on the Lightning Staff to enjoy the game. Gatekeeping them out of trials based on stereotypes only deepens the divide.

This is true, it is a player issue… and stereotyping is a human issue. I do want to point out in regard to “survival-oriented”… that is another aspect of the stereotype. People don’t want DPS who are constantly dead but they don’t want people who are “survival-oriented” either. They not only want people to do mechanics correctly, they want people to deal damage whilst doing so.

But I also want to add that not only did the reduction in AoE damage hurt the damage potential of these builds… from my understanding, it also made it less fun. I supported the loss of AoE ticks as a temporary measure to deal with the 1-shots in PvP, but I agree with OP: it’s time to bring back the AoE ticks.

peacenote wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

Hello.

We need your help. With the latest rework of the Lightning Staff, we lost the ability to properly damage large groups of targets.
Please restore the passive. Our build was built on it, without it, we're just wasting our time heavy-attacking.

For example, to kill a bunch of mobs in Craglorn (while gathering resources), we used to use 1-2 heavy attacks before nerf.
A DK or Arcanist also kills mobs in one breath or beam.

Now, to kill a bunch of three mobs, we need to use 3-6 heavy attacks (damaging one mob at a time). Our damage against AoE mobs has dropped threefold!
This is a huge nerf to our builds, especially considering we don't have a lot of damage, and that was the key to our builds—good AoE damage.
Now it's gone, and we're extremely sad because our builds are completely broken.
It's like heavy attacking in random sets—the result is almost the same.
We loved our builds, we played them all this time - and they were the best the game could give to us.

1- Could you by chance link to the patch notes that describe what changed? I tried searching 3 - 4 times and looking through the notes and I can't find exactly when this was introduced.

2- That said, I want to say that based on the information in your post, I fully support your stance. This is clearly about utility so I'm really not understanding why so many responses here are talking about parses and whatnot. Nobody expects HA builds to be BIS glass cannons. But being able to handle multiple targets and not go one by one is kind of essential for builds that take a bit for a payoff. That's why the cleave is so important to the Arcanist beam - otherwise it would be a horrible experience when using the beam in trash. Just imagine for a moment what it would be like if damage only hit the target at the furthest end of the beam and only at the end of the channel.

Completely unrelated to HA builds, even, IIRC this is not the first time the lightning staff was nerfed in such a way, to make AOE less viable, and I remember feeling it because I always used lightning staves to add damage as a healer during pulls when healing wasn't needed. It was something like... damage only hit at the end of completing the heavy attack, instead of building throughout, because it was supposedly causing issues in PvP, which made my contributing damage as a healer useless because things would be dead before I could complete my attack. That may not be exactly the mechanics but that's how I remember it. And from my perspective, it was a bummer and made my runs less "fun" for what didn't seem to be a compelling reason, at the time. :P

My bad. First I need to write the problem.

Tri Focus IIWith Destruction Staff Equipped Fully-charged Inferno Staff Heavy Attacks deal an additional 8180 Flame Damage over 20 seconds. Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. Fully-charged Ice Staff Heavy Attacks grant you a damage shield that absorbs 6600 damage. This effect scales off your Max Health. While an Ice Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina.

<== Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. ==>

So they remake only last hit of lightning staff HA do damage. It is very uncomfortable change - because on big mobs you lose 2/3 of your DPS from it (it hits 3 times) - and on small mobs they die faster than you do last hit - so you do not really do any AOE DPS.

It was made patch before - we try to play 1 update like it becomes - but a lot of people who play HA just say - I walk away, it will not fix. I decided write about this change that we do not like it.

It was very strange fix, we try to play with it but - HA is based on AOE damage of HA ttack so - game become really bad for us.

Soarora wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I know a guildee that has specialised in 1 bar builds, and does very well indeed; their 1 bar warden was particularly effective.

Have played 1 bar sorc, and 2 bar arcanist, and I disagree with a poster here that the arc is more ‘complicated’ to play. It really is not.

I don’t understand the 1 bar hatred. Anything that enables players to access parts of the game that previously were very ‘gatekept’ is good.

There are complaints here about the lack of players doing trials - well what do you expect if there are people preventing others from joining, rather than encouraging? Trial leads that ask for unrealistic top tier damage based on what they have seen on a stream are not helpful.

1 bars gave some players a chance to join, and do decent damage. So what is the issue?

I am genuinely curious, if anyone cares to enlighten me, what the skill curve of playing a 1-bar or HA build is. Like I said, I have not played such a build— my experience with 1-bar is limited to an only-jabs build, werewolf, and leveling in Skyreach. I know from personal experience (of mid-top parsing in content and attempting to be good at parsing on the dummy. Key word is attempting, I always fail to reach the peak of damage.) that arcanist has the potential to be more complicated than it’s been portrayed as on this thread. Reducing arcanist to “pressing two buttons” doesn’t make for a GOOD arcanist. I didn’t even mention builds specific for trash and burning, which HA builds cannot do since they have to use HA-boosting sets.

In return, I will answer the trial question. Midgame is said to have died long ago. There are certainly still guilds who do midgame, but I suppose it is less prevalent. What this means is less people willing to prog with low dps and low skill players (a stereotype of HA builds), proportionally more people want to get an easy, clean clear. It’s a video game, no one’s being paid to teach people, so it is an unrealistic expectation for people to suffer in a prog they do not want for a stranger.

The stereotype is based in experience: HA players getting very defensive and refusing to change anything about their build, lacking skill (such as standing behind the healer even when told to stand in front of the healer), and lacking damage (whether due to the state of the build or because the wielder has edited the standard build to be worse). The tension on the forums about HA and oakensoul only further this problem, but I also recognize my part in that as well. Of course, people know stereotypes do not apply to everyone… but between two strangers, would they pick the HA player? Perhaps not. I don’t know how the stereotype problem gets resolved but first step is in recognizing it and second step is in understanding why it exists.

Exactly as expected. It didn't take long for someone to jump in and try to rationalize the blatant discrimination shown in that screenshot.
@Soarora , your argument about "midgame progression" and "not being paid to teach strangers" is a textbook strawman argument. You are shifting the goalposts to hide a toxic attitude behind a mask of pragmatism.
Look at that screenshot again.
Carefully.
RD is not filtering people based on their clear history, their knowledge of the mechanics, or even their actual in-game performance. He is blanket-banning an entire build archetype regardless of the player's individual skill or actual DPS output.
To justify this by saying "HA players are stereotyped as low skill, lazy, and bad at positioning" is pure prejudice.
A bad, lazy, or stubborn player will fail mechanics, ignore the healer, and wipe the group whether they are using a 1-bar Heavy Attack setup or a hyper-optimized 2-bar meta rotation.
Blaming the build for a player's attitude is a lazy excuse to practice gatekeeping.
By defending this behavior, you are confirming exactly what we've been saying: the absolute hatred toward HA builds isn't about numbers, efficiency, or group safety anymore. It is a purely emotional, elitist gatekeeping.
Some people are just deeply bothered by the fact that someone else can clear content by playing differently, and they use these pathetic, unverified stereotypes to protect their digital ego.
When a community prefers a rigid spreadsheet check over evaluating actual player capability, it doesn't look "hardcore"—it just looks incredibly toxic.

I appreciate the way @Magic_Charmer spoke to me. What hurts your cause, and the forums at large, is this resortment to angry ranting. I have been nothing but calm, speaking only to my experience and my understanding of the experience of others. I am not engaging in this discussion to change people’s minds and try to force people to accept the treatment of HA players and mind you, I agree with the OP of this thread. I only engaged to share perspective so that the conversation can be grounded in reality rather than second or third hand understanding of opinions.

I usually edit but given the speed of this thread, I am replying. I want to add: I am not “the enemy” here. I hardly even do trials anymore and I sure as [oblivion] aren’t pugging them in group finder. If you’re on PC, you can see my signature: I do dungeons. I have never told someone they can’t run a dungeon with me or kicked them from a group because they are a HA player. A great draw of dungeons is that people can do whatever they want as long as it’s decent in content and nothing will have me injuring that draw.

Edit: Okay, I have one more thing to add and I’m not going to reply to myself a third time. I, too, have struggled with the conflict of how I want to play versus endgame trial standards. I understand it is not to the same level of HA though, my problem is that I use trifocus when I’m tanking and hate subclassing my tanks. This won’t get me gatekept from the pugs that I don’t do, but it can be a problem in guilds— I, like HA players, am not a blank slate to be told what to do. So-called “meta-slaves” (they call themselves this) are.

My point is on the biggest picture of all this, we are on the same side. Trials are generally uptight about their “everyone must be most effective” mindset, but there are reasons why that is and the only way to truly progress is to discuss and understand the reasons. I accept why my playstyle is shamed, the truth is I will not have as good of (de-)buff uptimes, such as from lost ultigen (s&b instead of double ice, less value from weapon trait) and lost minor brittle (my only source is hitting ele sus every 3 seconds, unrealistic for me to do with great uptime). I could argue “you claim endgame needs more tanks, so accept my build”… but that doesn’t mean people have to, when it is already shown I will not do what they tell me to.

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Keep in mind, one bar heavy attack builds are supposed to be easy, not top dps performers.

Who says that? It's a rule made up by weaving players who hated HA players, not a native game rule.
Arcanist players move two fingers and deal damage... and nobody says the Arcanist can't access endgame content.
Why shouldn't someone playing a HA build be able to do the same damage and access the very same content?

I do and everyone else who plays two bar builds. One bar builds are easier in every respect, and therefore should NEVER be as strong as two bar builds. You want easy mode, fine, but there should be a cost.

tixiyweter wrote: »

Current light attack builds got a lot from hybridization, the same time HA builds do not get proffit.

The AoE DPS cut was unjustified.

If we look on times before nerf - top builds did not have 190 k DPS.

100 K DPS was a good damage.

If look on pur class we have about 90 k DPS and good builds have 100-110 k DPS.

Now when we have may be 115k DPS the same class have 175k DPS. (I play DK so i look on DK).

So power gulf is biger, whyle the same time we use our AOE DPS.

The same time LA builds get better sustain because they get profit from both resources.

I do not like to look on others but - new DK long breath build makes about 150k DPS. And it is a lot of AOE DPS.

And it do not need press a lot of buttons too. The same time we need special sets for our build to work and are limited with lower solo target DPS.

What is the reason to play 1 build if it is the same simple as another build but you lose ALL good AOE DPS and the same time do less damage.

The only reason we play HA is we love this builds - and such nerfs is some thing we do not understand.

OK - we were nerfed in PVP because people do not like to see big HA numbers of damage in log. But oneshoting PVP builds are much more OP if compare to HA builds. HA builds were nerfed - one *** builds = did not.

OK, but PVE where all builds idea was to make huge HA AOE damage was nerfed ?

Just why. No reason for that. Just some strange change of passive only we used.

I agree with you. HA builds have fallen behind and continue to fall behind many other builds. There are many reasons for this and I will discuss this with you because I take great issue with it and we lost a lot of people over it. The altering of the Oakensoul ring was right around U34. I'll follow up with some info on this. It's been a few years so bear with me a little. This was in the fall of 2023 with Lost Depths (High Isle)

Originally, the ring gave MAJOR buffs. It was altered as follows:

ORIGINAL Oakensoul Ring:
MAJOR Berserk, MAJOR Courage, MAJOR Brutality, MAJOR Sorcery, MAJOR Prophecy, MAJOR Savagery, MAJOR Force, MAJOR Protection, MAJOR Resolve, minor Fortitude, minor Intellect, minor Endurance, minor Heroism, minor Slayer, minor Aegis, and Empower

NEW Oakensoul Ring:

minor Beserk, minor Courage, MAJOR Brutality, MAJOR Sorcery, MAJOR Prophecy, MAJOR Savagery, minor Force, minor Protection, MAJOR Resolve, minor Mending, minor Fortitude, minor Intellect, minor Endurance, minor Heroism, minor Slayer, minor Aegis, and Empower

The following update, U35 was a very bad time for Eso as well and many many Vets departed the game. Its considered one of the worst updates in Eso history for various reasons. We will explore that further on in the thread. As far as the Oakensoul Ring goes, not every 1 bar build is Oakensoul. And not every Oakensoul is a dps. It has the defensive buffs for things like a 1 bar Tank. Or even 1 bar Healers.

Far too many people in this game spend their entire time in it worrying about other people and how they think they should play. I'll say this, every time this subject is mentioned 2 things happen:

1) Someone always tells the fairy tale of them having lost half of their hand or something but still claim to run a 140-150k 2 bar light attack weaving dps

2) The myth that you can't run this in Cloudrest comes up
--- mention the Oakensoul Ring in the in game VC for fun to see both yourself

It will truly be an Eso first if it doesn't happen here. To address this, there are people who for whatever reason (and it doesn't matter what it is) can NOT play 2 bar builds. They just physically can't. Some just don't like 2 bar builds and prefer 1, so what, they pay for the game too.

You absolutely CAN run these in Cloudrest. If you have more than 4 or 5 people with them, it can be a bit of a juggle. I'll elaborate on this later on.

Regarding the Oakensoul Ring, Good players (if they really are good) don't worry about this. The argument that people with 2 bars are better players is bad sportsmanship if they claim to be a 'professional' or 'competative'. You can't be either of those 2 things without good sportsmanship. And if you're trying to, you aren't.

This mostly covers the ring. To delve further into the HA situation, we will have to discuss the HA splash damage, the addition of Arcanist to the game, ranged cleave, the changes to direct damage, changes to Arcanist Direct Damage and probably VAS+2. I will elaborate more on these things soon. I put the ring on a Templar with Sergeant's and Tarnished Nightmare for fun since I saw your thread. And it brought a smile to my face. I support this discussion and I hold nothing against 1 bar builds at all. They need some love. HA Builds overall need some love. I participate in group finder daily and have for years and consider gatekeeping to be exclusionary and beneath Eso.

Valkanos wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

If you or your friend genuinely need lower-intensity setups, then you should be supporting this thread instead of using accessibility as a punchline.
That is the whole point: ensuring that players with real physical barriers or different preferences have viable options to enjoy the game.
Trying to turn a serious conversation about inclusion into a joke by demanding a 'one-button instant win' is exactly the kind of toxic gatekeeping that hurts the community.
A viable Heavy Attack build isn't a free pass—it's a necessity for many.
True inclusion means wanting everyone to have a way to play the game, without mocking the setups they rely on.

I truly 100% agree with you. And I could even say more about what you said and explain my own point of view. But then this whole topic would probably just end up being [snip] [snip], because ZoS wouldn't like me saying what I actually want to say, and the 2bar players would be more than happy to jump on it. And in the end, we'd just finish with the classic: "Make your own groups".
So... well... I agree with you.

But I have to say this: We all agree that it's amazing that ESO offers accessible builds to players who genuinely need them. But what's the point if ZoS doesn't care about the gatekeeping, and then goes as far as excluding those same players from their own game? vCR HM (unsolved), NightMarket(unsolved), Solo dungeons (Solved)

You can clear vCR HM with HA one bar build, i think that most content of the game can be done with the HA one bar build

tixiyweter wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

tixiyweter wrote: »

Hello.

We need your help. With the latest rework of the Lightning Staff, we lost the ability to properly damage large groups of targets.
Please restore the passive. Our build was built on it, without it, we're just wasting our time heavy-attacking.

For example, to kill a bunch of mobs in Craglorn (while gathering resources), we used to use 1-2 heavy attacks before nerf.
A DK or Arcanist also kills mobs in one breath or beam.

Now, to kill a bunch of three mobs, we need to use 3-6 heavy attacks (damaging one mob at a time). Our damage against AoE mobs has dropped threefold!
This is a huge nerf to our builds, especially considering we don't have a lot of damage, and that was the key to our builds—good AoE damage.
Now it's gone, and we're extremely sad because our builds are completely broken.
It's like heavy attacking in random sets—the result is almost the same.
We loved our builds, we played them all this time - and they were the best the game could give to us.


This latest explosive heavy attack is extremely inconvenient - we don't like it. It ia extremly uncomfortable to play now.

We played like this for an entire patch, and many got upset and quit the game. Those who remained are now writing to you asking you to save our builds and fix the Lightning Staff passive to what it was before the rework.
(So that all Lightning Staff HA is AoE).

We're not asking for tons of damage, we're just asking for a return of what was unfairly taken from us.
DK and Arcanist have a similar skill, it's not an imbalance—after all, we dealt this damage with a heavy attack, we were good at AoE damage. Now we're bad at everything.
Our builds don't work in PvP (the sets and skills were disabled in PvP, even though we enjoyed playing PvP, it's a shame such an update was made).

Also, Lightning Staff heavy attacks used to tick 4 times instead of 3 before some patch, and we lost some damage from this too. This was compensated by increasing Empower's strength.
But our damage output remained roughly the same as always. We do not make 200k DPS in single target as some builds did.
Our sets are outdated. I'd like to see them reworked so they all deal damage on par with the Sergeant's set, because it turns out they're all useless since there's a Sergeant, and you just always choose him.
I'd like the numbers on the other sets to be adjusted to match him, so we have a choice of what to wear.

If we're completely cut off from PvP, please at least let us play PvE normally, because it's incredibly unfair. We created these builds for ourselves, and we enjoyed playing them.
We don't want to play like everyone else, using light attacks - we don't like that kind of gameplay.
The game has introduced long-casting skills—an alternative to HA—but we still want to play heavy attacks! And we had that opportunity, please don't take it away!

So please give us back our AoE damage, bring back the Lightning Staff's AoE passive. We were the only ones using it, so why was our builds subjected to such unfounded hate?
We want fairness, and if there are new builds with huge AoE damage and less single-target damage, we want to occupy our niche in it, on par with other AoE builds. Don't deprive us of this opportunity we've had since the very beginning of the game.
We do very little single-target damage, and AoE damage is all we have left. Don't take that away either.

Thank you.

I haven’t played Heavy Attack builds in the past, but I don’t think they’re weak today. Maybe veterans see things differently, but as a new player I’ve been using an HA build recently—even in PvP on my Sorcerer—and I’ve had a lot of fun. It might not be meta, but I can still grab some kills and be annoying. Would I like more damage? Sure. But I don’t think it feels weak right now.

HA sets do not work in PVP now. Only sergant and knight slayer still remain

So it was quite time ago you make it ) I love HA PVP too. It was not win condition but you can do a lot of AOE DPS than - you dead Funny option but some times even kill some body. Build was not bad in 1 on 1 the same time. Not the best but really fun to play.

Ikr, i use knight slayer, sergeant, or deadly strike combination. Btw i think that Deadly Strike + Sergeant is better with Voidmantle than with Oakensoul

BretonMage wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Keep in mind, one bar heavy attack builds are supposed to be easy, not top dps performers.

Who says that? It's a rule made up by weaving players who hated HA players, not a native game rule.
Arcanist players move two fingers and deal damage... and nobody says the Arcanist can't access endgame content.
Why shouldn't someone playing a HA build be able to do the same damage and access the very same content?

I do and everyone else who plays two bar builds. One bar builds are easier in every respect, and therefore should NEVER be as strong as two bar builds. You want easy mode, fine, but there should be a cost.

I thought previous threads had addressed this point. Most HA/Oakensoul users aren't asking for damage to be the same as meta, they just want a slight boost. If DPS has increased by 30-40% in recent years, I don't see why HA builds can't be boosted by, say, 10-20%.

In any case, having at least AOE damage returned to the lightning staff would be a much-needed improvement.

I also wouldn't mind seeing another BiS set for HA/Oakensoul builds, perhaps one that encourages a slightly more complex/varied rotation, or whatever it is that is apparently so bad about these builds.

We do not get boost - we get nerfs, the same time if other builds are boosted 30-40% may be it is fair ALL builds bosted to that procent of damage including HA ?

Why others get 40% buff we get nerfs in AOE damage and may be hget 20% add ?

We have 90 K DPS when otehrs have 110 k and we were treated weak. Now top parsers have 200k DPS - it is not normal at all.

OK even if do not look on it like that - at least do not get nerfs is already a buff - so at least if our AOE DPS will be return already a greate thanks.

Balancing the game is - when you buff all the sets and play style the same. You can not buff best builds that already are on top on 40% whyle others get 10-20 % buff. It only make top builds even more top !

Game need some builds diversity - not only the same for all 1-2 same builds with best skills and the same gear.

The best boost would be adding more HA sets and buff it a little to make them all be on pair to Sergants set.

Sets like aether need some buff, the same rouring oportunist need to be reworked like aether to give HA DPS, the same for may be some new HA sets.

To just buff the DPS is not a solution - we need more playable options to have.

And may be an option is to make HA party that can buff each others damage like Werwolws can do. Than more werwolws than more some bonuses they have.

I do not ask make it only for HA but add some buffs to party to HA sets to already existing HA DPS on it would be great option.