Pure Templars are facing extinction with u51

DarkStrifeYT · August 18

I don't think ZoS understands that healing requires damage increases in order for the healing to be good. Removing the minor sorcery and replacing it with armor is only making the templar heal weaker which is already weaker than the arcanist and warden. Templar needs more damage, not armor. Templar is one of the weakest classes right now in both pvm and pvp pure classing. Especially in pvp where movement is key, every "stand your ground" templar just gets walked past because people would rather go away from a turtling templar than actually spending 10 minutes trying to fight it, and if the templar isn't turtling they are destroyed in 5 seconds because they cannot heal enough or even deal enough damage to survive. In PvM I've seen and been the victim of being kicked from trial and dungeon groups because of my pure class templar. The masteries are trash as well, there is nothing good for the templar and it really needs a closer work because if u51 is going to go out the way it is templar is going from an It to a Was. I've played templar over 11 years and only seen it get worse. I've tried making new characters but all of them feel alien vs what im used to with the templar. Please reconsider the current plans with templar and work on offensive stats than defensive.

Luneca · August 18

I think they already know what you've said. The question is whether or not they care. And care enough to walk back the terrible change that they are trying to push for templars.

For me, I don't wear a single heavy piece and I don't and still won't stack resistances -- it's a nerf. Flat out nerf to all of my builds.

I never thought I would see the day I would lose damage for being an offensive build in an MMO, but we are in 2026. This is ESO...

Treeshka · August 18

I guess the idea is to turn templar into Paladin archetype where you wear big metallic heavy armor with big sword.

Oceanchanter · August 18

That's an overly dramatic way to put it.

It would happen sooner or later.
AFAIK the changes were taken from their plans for the class refresh.

ItsNotLiving · August 18

Templar Warden Nightblade Arcanist and Necro are just werewolf food dude that’s what they want.

kevkj · August 18

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

Munkfist · August 18

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

Was thinking this same thing.

Marto · August 18

Let's assume a build with 20k armor, 4000 unbuffed weapon/spell damage, and 4 Templar skill slotted.

On live, once you add illuminate, balanced warrior, and major brutality:

+6% armor
+39.9% weapon/spell damage

For that same hypothetical build in the PTS, that would become:

+26.4% armor
+32.0% weapon/spell damage

This build would be losing 5.6% of their weapon/spell damage. Assuming 30k stamina/magicka, your average tooltip damage would be lowered by 3.7%. And the DPS loss would be lower than that.

We're talking about a fairly minor DPS loss in exchange for a pretty substantial armor buff.

And if there's even a single DK in your group? Then it's straight up a buff compared to what you had before. Aproximately a 3.8% buff to your weapon/spell damage.

DarkStrifeYT · August 19

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

peacenote · August 19

Munkfist wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

Was thinking this same thing.

Well, some of us care enough about our teams to proactively switch and not "gimp" the team if it's not what's best for the team. It isn't just about being kicked.

Marto wrote: »

And if there's even a single DK in your group? Then it's straight up a buff compared to what you had before. Aproximately a 3.8% buff to your weapon/spell damage.

There are just so many scenarios where relying on having a DK in your group is a bad strategy. Dungeons, BG's, not being in a group in IC, etc. I am a group/team player over any solo content but even for me there's soooo many times I'm playing without a DK in my group. It's like saying "well it's a buff if there's a full moon on Saturday" or something. Sure it might happen but that doesn't make it good or defensible as a "nice" change.

All I know is, my "main" is a Templar and I so miss the days when we were BIS healers, at least. Now we are BIS nothings, in any content, from what I can tell, and it's such a bummer because I love the class so much. Not sure if I'm more afraid of the feel of the class being unrecognizable after its rework, or it being the worst class after the reworks. Both seem like possibilities, maybe even coexisting potential outcomes, the way things seem to be going.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · August 19

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

The problem is the characters are more unbalanced than at any time in 11 years. Subclassing caused this mess. And it is no longer 'Play how you want'. Because our characters are so inferior and broken. And the refreshes to make them viable are 2030 and beyond. Instead of them just removing the actual problem and that is Subclass. People are being punished for playing the characters they purchased the game to play! And they're quitting now because it is crystal clear that all of the reworks will be nerfed into complete uselessness due to the remains of what once was a very large and vibrant PvP Community. And that small pond will not be satisfied until they're playing alone with an end of service date. And thats the course we are now on. The next update spells it out like a neon sign.

Firstmep · August 19

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

The problem is the characters are more unbalanced than at any time in 11 years. Subclassing caused this mess. And it is no longer 'Play how you want'. Because our characters are so inferior and broken. And the refreshes to make them viable are 2030 and beyond. Instead of them just removing the actual problem and that is Subclass. People are being punished for playing the characters they purchased the game to play! And they're quitting now because it is crystal clear that all of the reworks will be nerfed into complete uselessness due to the remains of what once was a very large and vibrant PvP Community. And that small pond will not be satisfied until they're playing alone with an end of service date. And thats the course we are now on. The next update spells it out like a neon sign.

Werewolves are topping the dps charts left right and center in pve, but zos choose to hit their sustain, which will have a much larger impact in pvp anyway.
Werewolf will not in fact be nerfed into uselessness.

Dks are getting a net buff in pve and some moderate to slight nerfs in pvp.

Templars are getting a slight buff with balanced warrior, and fairly decent one with lancer, both of those will help them in pve.

The devs have been adding more and more battle spirit stipulations to passives and active skills specifically to allow them balance the two separately.

Subclassing is an issue for sure and they should imo focus more on masteries going forward, but to say reworked Classes are getting destroyed is very hyperbolic.