Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Gear swapping addons are basically as old as light attack weaving at this point. I used one called AlphaGear or something like that and the Wizards but I uninstalled both since I don't care about sweating. Kind of funny but I did install a UI addon because I liked the gear icons from AlphaGear and missed that one aspect.

ALL ADD-ONS ARE JUST A YEAR OLD ON CONSOLES and ive been fighting for 6 months now to show the harm this one does

There is no real harm, it just does something which can be done by hand quicker. Everyone can use it if they choose and there is no added advantage other than convenience and time saving. If those are worth it just install the addon(s), simple as that.

Ya'll want crossplay, time to get used to needing to adapt to modern gaming and what PC players have been doing for years.

SPEED in SPEED RUNS is a advantage 2.5 seconds to do what it takes the player 30+ seconds ( thats being overly fair on time as its more like 45-60 seconds) is a 2.75 minute difference in getting GODSLAYER or NOT , top times are 27-28 minutes with 30 being the cut off so without side add-on how many groups would have failed not having 2.75 minutes saved

Flawed premise. I run a trial trifecta prog group, I've asked people to stop using WW because it breaks often, or fails to load profiles correctly which in-turn means players are focussed on having the wrong build, or they have only half a build. Since the change we shaved 2 minutes off our typical runtime.

am sorry the add-on has failed you but in my testing of it 8 vma runs , 6 trials , and in pvp have i ever had it fail to load up right , and im sorry to say i cant believe the part about saving time not using it as no player can switch everything out in under 2.5 seconds like the add-on does

Again, a flawed premise. I asked them to stop switching completely. Same set for trash and bosses.

Edit for clarification: The difference in damage between a trash set and a boss set is absolutely miniscule. Boss setups tend to favour single target damage, but this is a flawed premise. Bosses have adds. If your setup is great at clearing mob packs, it'll be great at clearing bosses. No need to change with an addon or manually. No need to flick between different rotations. Much more efficient and stable.

to your edit

having a optimize group with pre-planing should be the winners of the race!!! not who has the most add-ons or whos add-ons fail or not

I've used Wizard's Wardrobe many times before, but now that OP has enlightened me, the pure raw power of having my skills pre-slotted is making my hands shake with the guilt of my clearly-unfair advantage. I've now deleted it and went back to my 48-page spreadsheet where I include scans of hand-drawn skill and gear icons and cross-reference them with my gear inventory before every boss pull. It's the only way to ensure 100% ToS compliance and moral purity. If you aren't spending 40% of your raid time in your inventory committing to your looksmaxxing arc, do you even have "skill"? Wake up, sheeple!

JavaRen wrote: »

There are many areas of this game where you cannot keep up with others who use the appropriate addon if you do not. This is just true. Does that make using those addons an exploit? Should TTC be banned because it gives traders who use it an edge? How about Code's Combat Alerts, or Lazy Writ Crafter? Where is/ should the line be?

there is no achivements behinde how much gold you have there is no leaderboard behinde how fast you can craft items theres no score to how fast you sale items , im not going to get into second discussion about codes combat here but should be another on the chooping block of add-ons zos needs to get controll over now that it has opened up add-ons for console and players whom hasnt had them finally get to voice their opinion not just the PC crew that is ok giving controll of the game to add-ons , any add-on that gives a combat related advantage, leaderboard advantage, a scoring advantage should be removed from the game because if not it puts a burden on the player to get deemed add-ons (some being locked altogether ( ps4/xbox1) some being partially locked ( console having limited add-on use ) even to the ponit of needing to buy a new system to play the same game

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible
3) so you feel console players should have no say until after crossplay even tho there is no set date and there is console players playing the game already , they are to just except negative changes to a game they been playing for 10 years in hopes that once someday crossplay happens their game will be fixed .

wizards being free and open to all ,tho its free and open to all zos put froth rules that would insure that players wouldnt be forced to add out-side add-ons due to being at a disadvantage without them

showing that something is going against the add-on terms and CoC is a tantrum ???? just because the players defending it say its not this or that ive yet to see ZOS say it aint

sarahthes wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible
3) so you feel console players should have no say until after crossplay even tho there is no set date and there is console players playing the game already , they are to just except negative changes to a game they been playing for 10 years in hopes that once someday crossplay happens their game will be fixed .

wizards being free and open to all ,tho its free and open to all zos put froth rules that would insure that players wouldnt be forced to add out-side add-ons due to being at a disadvantage without them

showing that something is going against the add-on terms and CoC is a tantrum ???? just because the players defending it say its not this or that ive yet to see ZOS say it aint

You were provided evidence of that, which you chose to ignore.

what evidence has been shown??? only personal opinions have i seen.. im the only one to quote any facts by posting the ADD-ON terms of use and CoC that wizards is in violation of

sarahthes wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible
3) so you feel console players should have no say until after crossplay even tho there is no set date and there is console players playing the game already , they are to just except negative changes to a game they been playing for 10 years in hopes that once someday crossplay happens their game will be fixed .

wizards being free and open to all ,tho its free and open to all zos put froth rules that would insure that players wouldnt be forced to add out-side add-ons due to being at a disadvantage without them

showing that something is going against the add-on terms and CoC is a tantrum ???? just because the players defending it say its not this or that ive yet to see ZOS say it aint

You were provided evidence of that, which you chose to ignore.

what evidence has been shown??? only personal opinions have i seen.. im the only one to quote any facts by posting the ADD-ON terms of use and CoC that wizards is in violation of

The quote from the ZOS dev who interfaces and works directly with add-on devs, including clarifying what is and isn't allowed, and which is screenshotted in a spoiler tag on the first page.

that was about it being seen as automated game play not a burden on game development or player , nor about not effecting SCORE in speed runs so again no evidence has been gave to disprove those points

sarahthes wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible
3) so you feel console players should have no say until after crossplay even tho there is no set date and there is console players playing the game already , they are to just except negative changes to a game they been playing for 10 years in hopes that once someday crossplay happens their game will be fixed .

wizards being free and open to all ,tho its free and open to all zos put froth rules that would insure that players wouldnt be forced to add out-side add-ons due to being at a disadvantage without them

showing that something is going against the add-on terms and CoC is a tantrum ???? just because the players defending it say its not this or that ive yet to see ZOS say it aint

You were provided evidence of that, which you chose to ignore.

what evidence has been shown??? only personal opinions have i seen.. im the only one to quote any facts by posting the ADD-ON terms of use and CoC that wizards is in violation of

The quote from the ZOS dev who interfaces and works directly with add-on devs, including clarifying what is and isn't allowed, and which is screenshotted in a spoiler tag on the first page.

that was about it being seen as automated game play not a burden on game development or player , nor about not effecting SCORE in speed runs so again no evidence has been gave to disprove those points

I don't think Wizards particularly burdens the development of ESO.

from the post used by zos to justify its reverting of UI respec


✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Kira stated on stream that they don't want people to feel like mid-run respecs are necessary. If that is your goal (and it should be your goal), then you absolutely must restrict their use during scored content.

It should have the same restrictions as the armory assistant: You can use it before the timer starts and after the timer ends upon completion of the instance, but while the timer is running, you can't.

Subclassing should be a good guide for how players will treat this: The devs have said that subclassing is optional and that it only adds power and doesn't take away anything. But in practice, the fact that it adds power means that it is not actually optional. People who don't subclass will not perform as well as those who do, and as a result, they are effectively forced to do so if they want to keep up and carry their own weight. Even if there are no explicit orders from raid leads to subclass, people will feel that implicit pressure from not being able to keep up with their peers.

The exact same thing will happen with respecs. Even if there is no "toxic behavior" of people explicitly asking for players to do mid-run respecs, there will still be that pressure. And with subclassing, respecs are more powerful than ever before.

And yes, there already are addons that can do respecs with the click of a button if you are at a respec shrine, and I use them to change builds, subclassing, etc., in a few seconds. But addons are not the problem--they are an important time saver. And it's currently balanced because I need to port out to a respec shrine to do such a thing.

Unrestricted respecs, with the help of addons, WILL cause massive balance issues and WILL force people to engage this way (even if they are not being explicitly told to do so), and you MUST nip this in the bud by disallowing when the trial timer is running.


main reason the players was in a uproar was because they seen how add-ons would use the new UI respec there as putting a burden on zos to revert how they attend to release UI respec

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Kira stated on stream that they don't want people to feel like mid-run respecs are necessary. If that is your goal (and it should be your goal), then you absolutely must restrict their use during scored content.

Respec is changing skill morphs. What WW does is change gear. Those are not the same thing.

If their goal is to make it so that players don't feel the need to change gear mid-run I fully support that. I personally think that Gear should be locked when a trial starts, and that slotting different CP/Skills should be limited at worse and outright locked at best - BUT - that is not possible with the way the content currently runs.

The best example of this is vOC HM Boss 2 - it requires an almost completely different setup compared to the rest of the trial for everyone in the group. If ZOS are serious about making it so no changes are feel like they are needed then banning WW is unnecessary as players wouldn't need it.

And just for context, I don't use build change addons. I rely on the Armory Assistant, and keep my build from start to finish, with the exception of a few trial bosses that I need to slot a couple of different skills on, because the mechanics of the trial are designed that way.

i had used the full post so as not to get told i misused the posters post to fit my narrative on it being a burden on UI respec but anyone that would like to read it in full is welcome there is many players saying the same thing add-ons being able to use UI respec would make the balance of the game even more off set ... that i did and still do agree with but i also see that the functions of the add-ons are the REAL ISSUE and to not deal with them still leave a layer of unbalanced game play within eso

Man, this dude is literally arguing with the devs’ words at this point. There’s nothing anyone can say that’s going to make him stop or change his mind. He’s going to continue to spew slop, ignore evidence, and demand more evidence beyond what’s already been damn-near shoved in his face.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible
3) so you feel console players should have no say until after crossplay even tho there is no set date and there is console players playing the game already , they are to just except negative changes to a game they been playing for 10 years in hopes that once someday crossplay happens their game will be fixed .

wizards being free and open to all ,tho its free and open to all zos put froth rules that would insure that players wouldnt be forced to add out-side add-ons due to being at a disadvantage without them

showing that something is going against the add-on terms and CoC is a tantrum ???? just because the players defending it say its not this or that ive yet to see ZOS say it aint

Now what if Team A has wizards wardrobe, More markers with lane assignments drawn in, and addons counting down to mechanics in bright purple but Team B can't be bothered to set all that up for a last-minute decision and go in without all that? Does team A now have an advantage?
Also you arguing that Team B doesn't have an advantage over Team A in this example just proves you are arguing in bad faith and no one should take you seriously.... either that, or you just literally don't know what words mean.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

"Hard facts"

Proceeds to post a subjective feeling that OP believes the addon is unfair.

You know what's a hard fact? The addon is available to everyone. Last I checked, something that can be used by everyone is far from "unfair".

Also, as has been said every single time you've ranted about addons on the forums, if ZOS believed it to be unfair they would have done something about it. ZOS is generally very good at removing addon APIs for things they deem to be unfair (Miat's Projectile/Heavy Attack dodge indicator, for example), especially for addons as widely used as WW.

Y'know, the "available to everyone" argument is the same as the... what was it. the "Handicapable" argument?

Everyone can use it. So why don't you?

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You keep using that word "exploit", but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Code of Conduct 5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game

i call it a exploit because thats what it is , it gives a undue advantage in LEADERBOARDS and SCORING so by its use is a exploit of both them system's

It's not an exploit.

For a brief period at launch (or maybe still on PTS?) a particular trial had a bug that you could bypass almost the whole trial, clip into the boss arena, and get the achievement for the clear. THAT was an exploit, it was reported and patched quickly and quietly.

If you don't like Wizards, use Dressing Room.

1st off its use is a exploit to leaderboards and speed runs as it gives a advantage to SCORING

2nd , the amount of time it takes to identify a exploit doesnt change that it was a exploit , look how long it took for them to change the " pig farm" or the banker with survey , didnt make eather of them not a exploit just means they took longer to be ponit out and understood

3rd dont like the add-ons gave to you use ones that aint ok great advice can zos then please give console ALL add-ons not just part of them .... oh wait that mean that PC add-ons hold an advantage over consloe add-ons wow great enforsement of making the game fair and equeal

1) "having an advantage" is not the same as having an unfair advantage. Let's say Team A and Team B both decide to complete the weekly trial, for arguments sake let's say its vAS. Team A has several people that haven't bought DLCs in a couple of years so they are missing some important sets, they have a tank who has never cleared +2, 2 dds that are an elderly married couple that both struggle with barswapping due to age, a healer with a terrible head cold, and a couple of people who have never ran with the team before. Team B has a solid group of 12 that play together 3 days a week, they just finished their MM prog and decided to take the night off and do a quick and easy poly farm for the weekly score.
On the leaderboards, Team B will have a huge ADVANTAGE over Team A. They have better gear, more experience playing together more experience playing the game, they are all in their 20s and 30s and no one has a cold.
These are all ADVANTAGES, and they are far more impactful than Wizards. Is this unfair? Should Zos ask players to fill out a questionnaire about their health, and monitor all gear before applying the leaderboard?
2) Valid point, but this isn't an exploit.
3) Console has access to many addons now, not sure exactly which but I'm sure by the time cross-platform play happens they will be caught up, and if not there will no doubt be some discussion over how best to handle it. But for now, console and PC DO NOT SHARE a leaderboard, so it's irrelevant.

Finally, Wizards Wardrobe is a FREE tool, that the creator shared openly with everyone. You CHOSING not to use it is YOU chosing to play at a minor disadvantage to yourself and to your team, just like people who play RP builds or use oakensoul this is your choice to make.

Throwing repeated tantrums on this subject after many people have explained to you this is not considered an exploit and not against TOS or CoC or any other rule in the game is another choice you are making. I would suggest you reevaluate some of your choices.

1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible
3) so you feel console players should have no say until after crossplay even tho there is no set date and there is console players playing the game already , they are to just except negative changes to a game they been playing for 10 years in hopes that once someday crossplay happens their game will be fixed .

wizards being free and open to all ,tho its free and open to all zos put froth rules that would insure that players wouldnt be forced to add out-side add-ons due to being at a disadvantage without them

showing that something is going against the add-on terms and CoC is a tantrum ???? just because the players defending it say its not this or that ive yet to see ZOS say it aint

Now what if Team A has wizards wardrobe, More markers with lane assignments drawn in, and addons counting down to mechanics in bright purple but Team B can't be bothered to set all that up for a last-minute decision and go in without all that? Does team A now have an advantage?
Also you arguing that Team B doesn't have an advantage over Team A in this example just proves you are arguing in bad faith and no one should take you seriously.... either that, or you just literally don't know what words mean.

where did i say team b did or didnt have a advantage ( 1) this provides nothing as team A is unopitimized and team B is opitimized thats not a in place disadvantage ( wizards ) that is simply not being ready to do said content as a optimized group to get best run possible ) because i dont see it
even if a un-optimized team used wizards they still be un-optimized so NO i wouldnt say it gives them an advantage over a optimized team could it put them on par with yes can it make them overly advantaged that would have to be seen but then id have to ask how optimized is the other team really

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means

YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.

while being forced to use a out-side developed add-on something the add-on terms and CoC was put in place to prevent

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

EXPLOIT= TO USE A SITUATION,RESOURCE OR PESON UNFAIRLY, SELFISHLY OR FOR ONES OWN MAXIMUM ADVANTAGE.. zos cant change what a word means

YOU CAN USE THE SAME ADDON. It is therefore not selfish, unfair, and allows you the same advantage.

while being forced to use a out-side developed add-on something the add-on terms and CoC was put in place to prevent

You're not being forced, you are being given a choice. And not for nothing but the entirety of the UI provided by ZOS, as well as inventory management, combat tips, and more is technically an addon. All addon writers are doing is using the exact same method ZOS use to give things ZOS has decided not to implement.

ZOS allow that for 2 reasons: 1) Lower development costs. 2) Because people like (and MMO players in particular) expect to be able to customise their UI.