"Criminal ACT" from Necromancer

Last'One · October 7

Since the game has completely lost much of its lore, fun, and class identity, at least for me and for several other players, as seen in many discussions, I think it’s time to reconsider the “Criminal Act” mechanic tied to some Necromancer skills.

I truly love the Necromancer class, but it’s just not enjoyable to play solo because of this outdated system. There’s nothing more frustrating than being asked by an NPC to help with a quest, only for them to suddenly attack me because I summoned a skeleton. That completely breaks immersion and ruins the experience.

I understand why the “Criminal Act” tag was added originally, it made sense when class identity and world immersion were stronger. But nowadays, when the game no longer emphasizes those aspects as much, this mechanic feels unnecessary and restrictive.

So, @ZOS_Kevin , is there any chance the team is considering removing this? I’d really love to replay the story using my Necromancer without constantly worrying about being attacked for using its core abilities. Right now, my Necromancer is level 50, but I only use him for random dungeons because solo play just isn’t fun with this limitation.

Lore, fun, class identity, immersion, all gone from ESO. Why keep this?
I don’t know about all of you, but if this was removed, at least all this nonsense would finally make sense.

Renato90085 · October 7

vamp and werewolf:

Last'One · October 7

Renato90085 wrote: »

vamp and werewolf:

Do they have the "Criminal ACT" too? I don’t play any of them, last time I tried, they were completely useless… so I’m not sure how it is these days. But if they do have this "thing", then can we just remove it from the game, please?

Fischblut · October 7

I really disliked when "criminal acts" were added to player's abilities and transformations, so I also want this feature gone. It is not fun to place such limits

I like seeing funny and chaotic stuff in towns; adding some werewolves, vampire scions and necromancer's skeletal summons would not be something unusual:

My werewolf used to be able to stroll around and help people with various tasks

Werewolf bodyguard:

And my necromancers can't even summon their cute Wraith buddy to heal other players in town. This ghost is literally harmless healer (and it would be amazing as permanent summon pet too), and I love seeing it around.

CameraBeardThePirate · October 7

It also just doesn't make sense. There are so many mounts, non-combat pets, and polymorphs that would also be considered criminal acts if ZOS was even halfway consistent about it.

If I can run around dressed up as a literal genocidal god who is actively invading Tamriel while having a skeletal dragon following me and riding a zombified horse, I should be able to summon a ghost that literally heals people without getting a bounty.

cyclonus11 · October 7

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It also just doesn't make sense. There are so many mounts, non-combat pets, and polymorphs that would also be considered criminal acts if ZOS was even halfway consistent about it.

If I can run around dressed up as a literal genocidal god who is actively invading Tamriel while having a skeletal dragon following me and riding a zombified horse, I should be able to summon a ghost that literally heals people without getting a bounty.

Rather than remove the Criminal Act, I think they should add it for all of those things.

DenverRalphy · October 7

I'm of the opposite opinion.

Last'One wrote: »

I understand why the “Criminal Act” tag was added originally, it made sense when class identity and world immersion were stronger. But nowadays, when the game no longer emphasizes those aspects as much, this mechanic feels unnecessary and restrictive.

While I agree this is the crux of the issue, I also firmly believe that the best solution would be to rebuild and boost the immersion the game has lost. Ramp up the impact and downsides of criminal acts and the bounty/justice system. Vampirism stage 4 should build bounty and heat as well.

For too long immersion and class identiy have been chipped away.

RexyCat · October 7

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'm of the opposite opinion.

Last'One wrote: »

I understand why the “Criminal Act” tag was added originally, it made sense when class identity and world immersion were stronger. But nowadays, when the game no longer emphasizes those aspects as much, this mechanic feels unnecessary and restrictive.

While I agree this is the crux of the issue, I also firmly believe that the best solution would be to rebuild and boost the immersion the game has lost. Ramp up the impact and downsides of criminal acts and the bounty/justice system. Vampirism stage 4 should build bounty and heat as well.

For too long immersion and class identiy have been chipped away.

A better suggestion is to let player have option to enable or disable "Criminal Act" mode instead of forcing it on everybody.
We now have a toggle for Sprint. Why not have a toggle for "Criminal Act" on certain skill (or transformation like WV and Vampires) that can be enabled or disabled as part of "Prevent Attacking Innocents" in Combat settings?

Giving control to when one might want to role play or feel the strain of being "Criminal"/Evil vs being able to get out of Dungeon, Trails or any instanced content without getting assaulted by guards the very moment one get out of said instance when on might use those skills is also important to make players use those skills and transformation.

To give motivation for using Criminal Act (as a toggle) why not have an daily or weekly Endeavour that will provide a small amount of Seals of Endeavour when setting Criminal Act as active?

I really disliked to play Necromancer with skills that have Criminal Act in tooltip as that very fast gets annoying when one want to do things that isn't to avoid getting caught with a bounty. Having a toggle for those skills and for transformation would make it possible to opt in and out of this system.

Soarora · October 7

I hated when we DIDN’T have criminal act because I just… ran around Alinor as a werewolf and no one cared. It was really weird. That said, I don’t think people should be punished for using their abilities during a quest, even if it is immersion breaking that the npc wouldn’t care. Instead of every npc freaking out, would making criminal acts only freak out guards solve the problem?

Altyri · October 7

I've never managed to get into being a necromancer because of the criminal act thing being so inconvenient.
I think a middle ground rather than completely removing it (which I'd be fine with tbh) would be perhaps limiting where it is considered a criminal act to use those abilities.
Perhaps only have them be seen as criminal when in a city, although enforcing that and what the boundaries would be with open cities like Rawl'kha I'm unsure of.
Atleast this way you could largely go about your business in the world without every random farmer npc coming for you, but you don't have cities flooded with skeletons without consequence.

Last'One · October 7

Soarora wrote: »

I hated when we DIDN’T have criminal act because I just… ran around Alinor as a werewolf and no one cared. It was really weird. That said, I don’t think people should be punished for using their abilities during a quest, even if it is immersion breaking that the npc wouldn’t care. Instead of every npc freaking out, would making criminal acts only freak out guards solve the problem?

No. Because we have to enter the city to deliver or get quests. And I’ll be attacked by a guard after helping the city? That doesn’t make sense… like all things in this game right now, to be fair.

LouisaB75 · October 7

The most annoying I find is the healing skill being a criminal act.

I took my necro to Skywatch and went into the guild building to grab the skyshard there. Then, being lazy, I did what I had done for every other character, jumped down from the top of the building and hit heal when I landed to heal the fall damage.

Suddenly she is kill on sight. Oops!

Techwolf_Lupindo · October 7

Just add all combat pets to criminal acts to fix this. Nothing is more annoying then going to an NPC for a quest only for it to be blocked by a combat pet preventing you from progressing the quest.

Soarora · October 7

Last'One wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I hated when we DIDN’T have criminal act because I just… ran around Alinor as a werewolf and no one cared. It was really weird. That said, I don’t think people should be punished for using their abilities during a quest, even if it is immersion breaking that the npc wouldn’t care. Instead of every npc freaking out, would making criminal acts only freak out guards solve the problem?

No. Because we have to enter the city to deliver or get quests. And I’ll be attacked by a guard after helping the city? That doesn’t make sense… like all things in this game right now, to be fair.

Necro pets aren’t permanent pets, though. By the time you’d see guards your skills would’ve run out and there’s no reason to keep summoning them when you’re in the middle of a city?

LouisaB75 wrote: »

The most annoying I find is the healing skill being a criminal act.

I took my necro to Skywatch and went into the guild building to grab the skyshard there. Then, being lazy, I did what I had done for every other character, jumped down from the top of the building and hit heal when I landed to heal the fall damage.

Suddenly she is kill on sight. Oops!

That’s fair to be annoying, necro doesn’t have any shield and you can’t scythe nothing… so… the ghost should be de-criminalized.

DenverRalphy · October 7

RexyCat wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I'm of the opposite opinion.

Last'One wrote: »

I understand why the “Criminal Act” tag was added originally, it made sense when class identity and world immersion were stronger. But nowadays, when the game no longer emphasizes those aspects as much, this mechanic feels unnecessary and restrictive.

While I agree this is the crux of the issue, I also firmly believe that the best solution would be to rebuild and boost the immersion the game has lost. Ramp up the impact and downsides of criminal acts and the bounty/justice system. Vampirism stage 4 should build bounty and heat as well.

For too long immersion and class identiy have been chipped away.

A better suggestion is to let player have option to enable or disable "Criminal Act" mode instead of forcing it on everybody.
We now have a toggle for Sprint. Why not have a toggle for "Criminal Act" on certain skill (or transformation like WV and Vampires) that can be enabled or disabled as part of "Prevent Attacking Innocents" in Combat settings?

Hard disagree. There's no forcing anything on anybody. A player is free to choose whether to commit a criminal act. Too much of the game's immersion has been chipped away already. The game has already become too "The Sims ESO edition" as it is.

Don't want to get tagged for commiting a criminal act? Simple. Don't commit one. Want to benefit from what a criminal act can provide? Take the risk.

"Make it optional" is thrown around too much, and it's resulted in too many game aspects becoming humdrum.

[edit] Oh and here's another thing that needs to change. Counterfeit Pardons drop rate needs a severe nerf. Thieving/Blade of Woe are trivial acts simply because everyone has an inexhaustable supply of pardons. I destroy so many because I don't need yet another stack building up since all of my characters have a stack, and 2 stacks in the bank at any given time.

edward_frigidhands · October 7

I seriously disagree with this suggestion for both necromancy and vampirism.

I would advocate going the other direction instead and making guards weaker and there being a point to avoid or fight/kill them.

Inyhel · October 7

I say make it optional.
While I personally like the criminal acts system I can see how it can be immersion breaking (due to the myriad of other inconsistencies mentioned in this thread) and just plain incovenient for other players.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · October 7

Here is a compromise

it can also serve as an update to Vampire, Werewolf and Necromancer content.

Instead of getting a bounty (Paying it does not unmake you a Vampire or Werewolf) Necromancers, Vampires and Werewolves would have a "Hunted" mechanic, when you use a skill in a town NPCs would just comment and or flee from you, but you will not gain a bounty, instead there would be a separate system for threats beyond the Guard's paygrade where you can get ambushed by 2 or 3 Vampire/Werewolf/Necromancer Hunters while out in the wilderness based on how often you have been using these skills in front of NPCs, these Hunters would be strong, maybe each would be equivalent to a more dangerous enemy like a Gargoyle/Storm Atronach so they would not be unkillable, a cakewalk for endgame players but more of a challenge for lower level players.

Killing them would reduce your "Hunted" level.

Soarora · October 7

Inyhel wrote: »

I say make it optional.
While I personally like the criminal acts system I can see how it can be immersion breaking (due to the myriad of other inconsistencies mentioned in this thread) and just plain incovenient for other players.

It can't just be optional. It being optional would realistically be that it gets removed and people who liked the criminal acts just roleplay as if it was never removed.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Here is a compromise

it can also serve as an update to Vampire, Werewolf and Necromancer content.

Instead of getting a bounty (Paying it does not unmake you a Vampire or Werewolf) Necromancers, Vampires and Werewolves would have a "Hunted" mechanic, when you use a skill in a town NPCs would just comment and or flee from you, but you will not gain a bounty, instead there would be a separate system for threats beyond the Guard's paygrade where you can get ambushed by 2 or 3 Vampire/Werewolf/Necromancer Hunters while out in the wilderness based on how often you have been using these skills in front of NPCs, these Hunters would be strong, maybe each would be equivalent to a more dangerous enemy like a Gargoyle/Storm Atronach so they would not be unkillable, a cakewalk for endgame players but more of a challenge for lower level players.

Killing them would reduce your "Hunted" level.

That would be pretty awesome actually.
I still think it's silly that I transformed in front of WEREWOLF NPCS and they attacked me for being a werewolf haha. One even transformed!

spartaxoxo · October 7

I don't players should be able to opt of risks to their Playstyles with a flip of a switch. Criminal acts are already very easy to avoid. Werewolves, Vampires, and Necromancy have all been viewed as evil in Tamriel for decades. The Worm Cult and Necromancers have been unleashing massive levels of destruction in this era. There's no narrative reason these things shouldn't be crimes. And since skills are also not up passively but instead something the player can easily control doing, there's no good gameplay reason it shouldn't be illegal either imo.

Frankly the blade of woe should also be added to the list.

DenverRalphy · October 7

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Werewolves, Vampires, and Necromancy have all been viewed as evil in Tamriel for decades.

Eras actually.

katanagirl1 · 4:36AM

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't players should be able to opt of risks to their Playstyles with a flip of a switch. Criminal acts are already very easy to avoid. Werewolves, Vampires, and Necromancy have all been viewed as evil in Tamriel for decades. The Worm Cult and Necromancers have been unleashing massive levels of destruction in this era. There's no narrative reason these things shouldn't be crimes. And since skills are also not up passively but instead something the player can easily control doing, there's no good gameplay reason it shouldn't be illegal either imo.

Frankly the blade of woe should also be added to the list.

I have a necro that only does daily crafting writs now, and she has blastbones on the circle button. So guess what happens when I hit one too many circle buttons backing out of menus? She gets a bounty. It’s no big deal though, I just sneak and get away and wait for the bounty to go down.

I think BoW is a crime if witnessed by npcs. You get a passive in the Dark Brotherhood skills with a percent chance to not be seen after all.

spartaxoxo · 5:33AM

katanagirl1 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't players should be able to opt of risks to their Playstyles with a flip of a switch. Criminal acts are already very easy to avoid. Werewolves, Vampires, and Necromancy have all been viewed as evil in Tamriel for decades. The Worm Cult and Necromancers have been unleashing massive levels of destruction in this era. There's no narrative reason these things shouldn't be crimes. And since skills are also not up passively but instead something the player can easily control doing, there's no good gameplay reason it shouldn't be illegal either imo.

Frankly the blade of woe should also be added to the list.

I have a necro that only does daily crafting writs now, and she has blastbones on the circle button. So guess what happens when I hit one too many circle buttons backing out of menus? She gets a bounty. It’s no big deal though, I just sneak and get away and wait for the bounty to go down.

I think BoW is a crime if witnessed by npcs. You get a passive in the Dark Brotherhood skills with a percent chance to not be seen after all.

Afaik, BoW is only a crime if you do it to civilians/townspeople. But if you were to blade of woe an enemy NPC, then it wouldn't get a bounty. At least that's how I think it works

LootAllTheStuff · 12:26PM

katanagirl1 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't players should be able to opt of risks to their Playstyles with a flip of a switch. Criminal acts are already very easy to avoid. Werewolves, Vampires, and Necromancy have all been viewed as evil in Tamriel for decades. The Worm Cult and Necromancers have been unleashing massive levels of destruction in this era. There's no narrative reason these things shouldn't be crimes. And since skills are also not up passively but instead something the player can easily control doing, there's no good gameplay reason it shouldn't be illegal either imo.

Frankly the blade of woe should also be added to the list.

I have a necro that only does daily crafting writs now, and she has blastbones on the circle button. So guess what happens when I hit one too many circle buttons backing out of menus? She gets a bounty. It’s no big deal though, I just sneak and get away and wait for the bounty to go down.

I think BoW is a crime if witnessed by npcs. You get a passive in the Dark Brotherhood skills with a percent chance to not be seen after all.

Hitting the map button will get you directly out of menus; for maps, the inventory button serves the same function. (Works like that on XBox, at least)

DenverRalphy · 2:02PM

In hindsight, I never understood why a victim can witness their own murder thus raising your bounty. Kill an NPC alone in a room behind closed doors, and up your bounty soars.

Barovia87 · 2:19PM

Summoning and shacking demons (okay, fine - "Daedra") to your will in the middle of town? A-okay, friend-o Sorcerer! Pull up a chair!

Healing spirits, though? Ancestralism? White Necromancy (re: Zerith-Var, for example)? Instant death sentence, you actual monster.

The "immersion" arguments don't hold water, IMHO. Especially not within ESO's internal lore at this point.

And Necromancer is a PAID class that has been repeatedly nerfed into the dirt. It has no business having extra hurdles to gameplay.

It's wild watching Arcanists non-stop harness eldritch Cthulhuan-esque tentacle powers from the abyssal beyond, and Sorcerers throwing demons (DAEDRA, yes, I know) at every problem. But everyone whines about their precious IMMERSION when it comes to Necromancers. Fetching ridiculous.

spartaxoxo · 3:41PM

Barovia87 wrote: »

The "immersion" arguments don't hold water, IMHO. Especially not within ESO's internal lore at this point.

ESO's own internal lore is that the Mage's guild, which uses daedea for even small tasks, are protecting the land. They are visible in towns and cities. Also, there's a whole race of people who once venerated the "good" Daedric princes.

Necromancers are almost exclusively evil. Mannimarco and his worm cult have put all of Nirn in danger. Zerith Var is not from this era and his order has long been destroyed. He's literally an outlaw as well in his story.
There is not a large group of people publicly showing that Necromancy doesn't have to be evil, like there is with the mage's guild and daedra summoners.

Everyone's free to their own interpretations, ofc. But if you're using Earth logic to inform your opinion of how Nirn should view things, then that's not ESO's internal logic. It's not Cthulhu, it's Hermaeus Mora. And he's helping save reality in ESO.

Xarc · 4:40PM

sumoning daedra is authorized in city, but reviving people isnt