Maintenance for the week of September 29:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
Vengeance and population
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exiars10✭✭✭✭Dead game on "PCMR" EU mega server at 20.30 CET.
I finally found out who plays V3 - role players!
Look at all those poor Queen's loyal soldiers who are going to charge into battle.
P. S.
This day, we and Reds have almost the same score. This is going to be a great evening
.
Edited by exiars10 on 26 September 2025 18:38Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭for entertainment I reactivated my old miats and the last battle I was in last night was a 3 way at alessia with 40 odd yello, 80 odd blue and similar red. That was not the only battle on the map.PCNA
PCEU1 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭you cant fill the campaign Venge bois and girls...give us now the original camp to play some true pvp..
GH is garbage and has been for years. ZoS can definitely do better in communicating what the end goal is, but in no way should we encourage "drop everything and go with what we have".
The True PvP you allude to is a mess of garbage code and toxic gameplay enabled by a now no longer here Studio head who lacked the foresight to see how the subclass fiasco would further devolve the gameplay experience. We can heap a ton of credit on how awesome the game is to him, but he deserves an equal share of the blame for the madness we're all suffering through now. This doesn't absolve the staff remaining, many are 100% all in with twiddling away as the masses suffer.
We did not have to be here. We have devs dedicated to creating another game - Skyrim, inside this game, and that ship has hit an iceberg everyone saw coming for years.
How difficult is it to say, you can play how you want with the classes and skills we give you? No you can't have every ability because this isn't that other game. Yes we'll design more skills and morphs. Yes we'll develop ice, and fire mages and give RPs more options. Yes we'll let you select your scroll quest in Cyrodiil. Yes we'll fix the trolling in Tales of Tribute. Yes we'll incentivise and offer better PvP rewards. Yes we recognize PvP and PvE are integral parts of the game. No we won't support toxicity between the two. Yes we'll provide armor with toggles to turn off pieces for you guys - you've been asking for 11 years. Yes we'll add better trade support within the game. Yes we know the Arc is an unbalanced mess and we'll fix it. Yes we'll finish half done projects... Yes we'll hard code, yes we'll address the math calcs and armor bloat and racial passives and add more classes...etc etc etc
There's a lot they could do and haven't, but there's also a new team at the helm. This is a ship the devs can right, but the players should also find some patience and show a little grace during the interim while pressing for better communication.
We're here watching..patiently, till the Dwemer return.
"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS2 -
amiiegee✭✭✭✭This day, we and Reds have almost the same score. This is going to be a great evening.
you dont say.
I wonder whyPanthermic wrote: »
PC EU 23:23 CEST.
0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Finally popped onto a red character for a bit, and I can report that, for me at least, winning a 15:1 fight is no more fun than losing one. It actually made me feel bad. But plainly I'm an outlier, cause *wavesarms*."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle3 -
LPapirius✭✭✭✭✭Friday night prime time and it's 2 bars for every faction on PC NA. If we had actual PvP there would be at least a 30-50 queue to get in.
....don't bother trying to claim that vengeance bars are X bigger than live cyro bars because the only people who know that for sure are ZOS employees.
Edited by LPapirius on 27 September 2025 02:091 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭StihlReign wrote: »you cant fill the campaign Venge bois and girls...give us now the original camp to play some true pvp..
GH is garbage and has been for years. ZoS can definitely do better in communicating what the end goal is, but in no way should we encourage "drop everything and go with what we have".
The True PvP you allude to is a mess of garbage code and toxic gameplay enabled by a now no longer here Studio head who lacked the foresight to see how the subclass fiasco would further devolve the gameplay experience. We can heap a ton of credit on how awesome the game is to him, but he deserves an equal share of the blame for the madness we're all suffering through now. This doesn't absolve the staff remaining, many are 100% all in with twiddling away as the masses suffer.
We did not have to be here. We have devs dedicated to creating another game - Skyrim, inside this game, and that ship has hit an iceberg everyone saw coming for years.
How difficult is it to say, you can play how you want with the classes and skills we give you? No you can't have every ability because this isn't that other game. Yes we'll design more skills and morphs. Yes we'll develop ice, and fire mages and give RPs more options. Yes we'll let you select your scroll quest in Cyrodiil. Yes we'll fix the trolling in Tales of Tribute. Yes we'll incentivise and offer better PvP rewards. Yes we recognize PvP and PvE are integral parts of the game. No we won't support toxicity between the two. Yes we'll provide armor with toggles to turn off pieces for you guys - you've been asking for 11 years. Yes we'll add better trade support within the game. Yes we know the Arc is an unbalanced mess and we'll fix it. Yes we'll finish half done projects... Yes we'll hard code, yes we'll address the math calcs and armor bloat and racial passives and add more classes...etc etc etc
There's a lot they could do and haven't, but there's also a new team at the helm. This is a ship the devs can right, but the players should also find some patience and show a little grace during the interim while pressing for better communication.
We're here watching..patiently, till the Dwemer return.
None of what you talk about is going to be achieved by taking Gray Host away from the people that want to play it.
That's why it's several campaigns are disabled to get a small measure of an audience (one we aren't allowed to measure and they won't reveal) to the Vengeance campaign.
0 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭BetweenMidgets wrote: »Faction lock should go, no matter what campaign.
The numbers say that players want faction lock. That's why Gray Host fills up with a que 100 long while Blackreach doesn't.
Why would we want to take away what people want to play and make them play something they don't?Edited by edward_frigidhands on 27 September 2025 03:140 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭edward_frigidhands wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »
The numbers are not shown anywhere. We only have access to pieced together info. Zos doesn't show us numbers because they likely don't want competitors offering better experiences during a low patch.
Zos early on stated 1800 players per server back in the beta days. This is still on an FAQ on their website.
Zos claims veng can do 3x live stable shown in their data stream. They tried 4x live on EU, but it became unstable.
From Cyr tracking addons we see live pvp is in the ballpark of 300 players total. The same addons read around 1100-1300 at one point during the first test on EU. The addon owner was in one of the other threads to explain the several methods it uses to collect IDs for counting.
So basically we do not have access to this information that everyone keeps claiming we do.
We have guesswork gleaned from unreliable claims and add-ons.
We do have the information that players have gleaned from themselves, you just don't want to believe it. It's no different to how we have a good idea what drop rates for certain things are; years of players gathering data and testing.
You don't need to "believe" in data. It just is. Both undeniable and evident.
What does require belief is opinions based on conclusions you want to draw because of what you want to see happen.
Edited by edward_frigidhands on 27 September 2025 03:130 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭Heh, lol.
People got what they asked for, it doesnt matter if you raise the pop slow or not, Vengeance isnt going to retain a population of players because the type of players it attracts in the first place are not pvpers and its nothing but a side show for them. Its shallow, why do you think the no proc campaigns are dead? Complexity is good for the game.
Heal stacking and shield stacking is not.Tes fans hate Ulfric Stormcloak for imagined bigotry but love Dagoth Ur, the Empire, and the Telvanni unironically.2 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭MorallyBipolar wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »
The numbers are not shown anywhere. We only have access to pieced together info. Zos doesn't show us numbers because they likely don't want competitors offering better experiences during a low patch.
Zos early on stated 1800 players per server back in the beta days. This is still on an FAQ on their website.
Zos claims veng can do 3x live stable shown in their data stream. They tried 4x live on EU, but it became unstable.
From Cyr tracking addons we see live pvp is in the ballpark of 300 players total. The same addons read around 1100-1300 at one point during the first test on EU. The addon owner was in one of the other threads to explain the several methods it uses to collect IDs for counting.
So basically we do not have access to this information that everyone keeps claiming we do.
We have guesswork gleaned from unreliable claims and add-ons.
Some people are better than others at understanding the difference between what they know and what they just believe based on their feelings.
Very true.0 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭edward_frigidhands wrote: »None of what you talk about is going to be achieved by taking Gray Host away from the people that want to play it.
That's why it's several campaigns are disabled to get a small measure of an audience (one we aren't allowed to measure and they won't reveal) to the Vengeance campaign.
Grey Host is a name. If Vengeance is recoded (Grey Host) Cyrodiil with "fixes" that allow us to use abilities and sets, and NOT be stuck in combat, no heal stacking, no shield stacking and no group buff stacking with increased pop caps and a template for players who don't want to invest heavily in sets, just plug n play - I don't care what they call it.
Almost No one plays or wants to play Grey Host. If the total pop cap is 300 or 1200 that's nothing compared to the 120,000 -180,000 monthly estimate of daily players and is abysmal compared to the 26M players ZoS has. 1 campaign. There should be a list of campaigns and a few should be locked 24/7."O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS0 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StihlReign wrote: »We're here watching..patiently, till the Dwemer return.
Honestly, if ZOS just gave me my Dwemer Artificer class, I'd buy whatever pass they offerred sight unseen and then I'd shut up in my corner for like a full year just having fun with building Centurions and tossing grenades.
Just saying...1 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭StihlReign wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »None of what you talk about is going to be achieved by taking Gray Host away from the people that want to play it.
That's why it's several campaigns are disabled to get a small measure of an audience (one we aren't allowed to measure and they won't reveal) to the Vengeance campaign.
Grey Host is a name. If Vengeance is recoded (Grey Host) Cyrodiil with "fixes" that allow us to use abilities and sets, and NOT be stuck in combat, no heal stacking, no shield stacking and no group buff stacking with increased pop caps and a template for players who don't want to invest heavily in sets, just plug n play - I don't care what they call it.
Almost No one plays or wants to play Grey Host. If the total pop cap is 300 or 1200 that's nothing compared to the 120,000 -180,000 monthly estimate of daily players and is abysmal compared to the 26M players ZoS has. 1 campaign. There should be a list of campaigns and a few should be locked 24/7.
Gray Host is not just a name. if it were then they would just recode it directly and expect participation. They don't. They know that. They have data that shows what people choose to play, and its not the test campaign up right now. They have tried multiple campaigns, they dont fill and people que for a faction locked campaign and pvp in Imperial City on a 101 que till it pops.
You can choose to see what you want to see, it doesn't take away from what is in front of us. People don't want to play these different game modes they are putting up. They want ESO PvP with all its features enabled and a faction lock. After a decade of the game being out this is consistently what their pvp community chooses.
You can tell yourself that its not that many people and they will accept a different version of the game that has all the things you dont like disabled and everyone will just accept it. But you know thats not true and the developers do too.
That is why everything else is disabled to funnel people into this test campaign. You saw it before with Ravenwatch and you are going to see it again when they try to run Vengeance alongside Gray Host.
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edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭StihlReign wrote: »
There should be a list of campaigns.edward_frigidhands wrote: »None of what you talk about is going to be achieved by taking Gray Host away from the people that want to play it.
That's why it's several campaigns are disabled to get a small measure of an audience (one we aren't allowed to measure and they won't reveal) to the Vengeance campaign.
This is probably the only thing we can agree on and it will likely result in people flocking to the campaign with all features of ESO enabled. This is why every other campaign is disabled to make people play Vengeance.0 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭edward_frigidhands wrote: »
You can tell yourself that its not that many people and they will accept a different version of the game that has all the things you dont like disabled and everyone will just accept it. But you know thats not true and the developers do too.
Think what you wish. You can tell yourself everyone wants to play Grey Host while the zone's population continues to drop until you're the last one left. Play the test. Contribute to the data, or don't.
"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS0 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭StihlReign wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »
You can tell yourself that its not that many people and they will accept a different version of the game that has all the things you dont like disabled and everyone will just accept it. But you know thats not true and the developers do too.
Think what you wish. You can tell yourself everyone wants to play Grey Host while the zone's population continues to drop until you're the last one left. Play the test. Contribute to the data, or don't.
I don't need to tell myself anything. I am experiencing it as I wait hours to get into a campaign that has so many people that it bogs down the servers its on and there isn't a place you can go to when inside where you dont get run down. This is during Prime Time when most people who play this game logon. This continues until the late hours of the night and longer if theres an event.
You're the one having to tell yourself that people want to play this disabled and watered down version of the game when they have to disable almost every other version of PvP to populate it. All past instances we have of these choices indicate people want to play the actual game with all features enabled.
It is right in front of you and you're choosing to believe fantasy for the simple reason that you do not enjoy what more people do. And that is okay. Everyone is not the same and they dont want to play the same thing.
But you're not going to force people to play what you want and how you want. That just isn't how anything works.They will just go play another game.Edited by edward_frigidhands on 27 September 2025 05:450 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭To finish report from the last evening…
"PCMR" EU mega server prime time stats for the last evening (Friday):
It started:
AD – 2 bars / EP – 3 bars / DC – 2 bars
At ~20.40 AD was at 3, too.
At ~21.40 EP dropped to 2.
So until 23 CET when I left Cyrodiil and which is already past prime time, it was AD – 3 and EP & DC – 2. Soon after DC dropped to 1 and AD to 2. I see Panthermic posted screenshot.
However, when I left the game at midnight, EP had 3 bars which means that EP for sure finally won one day as at 23 hours, we and EP had the same score (+/-20 points).
I‘m starting to think that indeed role players play V3. We had Gandalf the Purple (from Iceland?) scroll runner. Sorry for the somehow bad screenshot, but you can partially see that zone chat was full of funny comments
.
I‘ll later today post more screenshots related to population.
It was fantastic evening.
23.23 is basically night (depending on country) and way past prime time for sure.
And check my message above - I'm pretty sure Red won as they had 3 bars later.Edited by exiars10 on 27 September 2025 06:26Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
Yep, we don't believe our own eyes.Friday night prime time and it's 2 bars for every faction on PC NA. If we had actual PvP there would be at least a 30-50 queue to get in.
....don't bother trying to claim that vengeance bars are X bigger than live cyro bars because the only people who know that for sure are ZOS employees.
Miat's PVP Alerts shows 17 AD players ready to charge for our glorious Queen, and the only rightfull ruler of the all Tamriel.
Meanwhile, my eyes see and brain counted almost 30 players.
This is what happens when Vaermina is involved. We dream things which are not reality
.
On this screenshot there are no at least 17 AD players, nor almost 30. It's all fake, just like Estre was a fake Auridon ("Veiled") Queen. Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Last'OneSoul ShrivenI personally choose not to engage in PvP in Elder Scrolls, as it’s not something I enjoy. In my opinion, and I want to stress that this is just my perspective, the current setup leaves both communities a little unsatisfied. PvP players don’t get the full, dedicated PvP experience they might want, and PvE players, who often play Elder Scrolls primarily for its rich story and world, also don’t get a fully PvE-focused game. It feels like both groups only receive half of what they could have.
I don’t mean this as criticism of PvP or PvE players, I respect both communities. I also don’t claim to know what ZOS should or could do to improve PvP. But from my own point of view, I believe the best way to strengthen the game would be to focus more on PvE, because that’s what has always made Elder Scrolls truly amazing.
PvE makes Elder Scrolls amazing. Not PvP!0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally choose not to engage with the above comment. Other comments make this forum amazing. Not the one above this one!Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast3 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭I personally choose not to engage in PvP in Elder Scrolls, as it’s not something I enjoy. In my opinion, and I want to stress that this is just my perspective, the current setup leaves both communities a little unsatisfied. PvP players don’t get the full, dedicated PvP experience they might want, and PvE players, who often play Elder Scrolls primarily for its rich story and world, also don’t get a fully PvE-focused game. It feels like both groups only receive half of what they could have.
I don’t mean this as criticism of PvP or PvE players, I respect both communities. I also don’t claim to know what ZOS should or could do to improve PvP. But from my own point of view, I believe the best way to strengthen the game would be to focus more on PvE, because that’s what has always made Elder Scrolls truly amazing.
PvE makes Elder Scrolls amazing. Not PvP!
I don't understand why you're posting that in a thread about the Vengeance campaign. It has nothing to do with this topic.2 -
fizzybeef✭✭✭✭I personally choose not to engage in PvP in Elder Scrolls, as it’s not something I enjoy. In my opinion, and I want to stress that this is just my perspective, the current setup leaves both communities a little unsatisfied. PvP players don’t get the full, dedicated PvP experience they might want, and PvE players, who often play Elder Scrolls primarily for its rich story and world, also don’t get a fully PvE-focused game. It feels like both groups only receive half of what they could have.
I don’t mean this as criticism of PvP or PvE players, I respect both communities. I also don’t claim to know what ZOS should or could do to improve PvP. But from my own point of view, I believe the best way to strengthen the game would be to focus more on PvE, because that’s what has always made Elder Scrolls truly amazing.
PvE makes Elder Scrolls amazing. Not PvP!
See and for me and many others its the exactly opposite. While i originally thought this is like a skyrim 2.0 i have finished all the interesting quests, find the dungeons and trials boring and i only stay for pvp.
Cut that off and im gone2
