Vengeance and population

Iriidius

aetherix8 wrote: »

It's still on console because you get your maintenance on 1st October, that's when it will be taken down and GH will return. No need to panic.

On the main topic, there are now so many Vengeance threads that it seems some folks are confusing this one with others that claim Vengeance is dead. This thread points to a population imbalance on PC NA, and it is important to understand that with increased population caps such an imbalance becomes a huge issue. If these increased caps become a real thing one day, something has to be done about how either scoring or queues work in Cyrodiil. Or both.

Basically, stop buffing the winning faction ZOS! Or implement dynamic queue locks. Populations must be balanced across factions otherwise it is indeed just a skillless zergfest PvDoor. V3 still had increased pop caps for sure, on PC EU, where it was balanced 2 bars each faction most of the prime time, these bigger numbers of players were obvious.

Also, I don't think that this low participation can be blamed entirely on a PvE event. Sure it drove some players away to a degree, but just a quick look at forums show a waning interest in Vengeance in general. See official feedback threads: V1 10 pages, V2 5 pages, V3 2 pages. Less and less players participate, because a) some boycott it to prevent Vengeance replacing current Cyrodiil, b) players' feedback about balance is not taken into account, c) ZOS doesn't communicate enough what are their intentions further fuelling playerbase insecurity about the future.

Rewarding a faction Pvdooring and then zerg defending the map is a really bad decision destroying PvP and should have never been implemented but it is still there after 11 years.
Vengeance actually disabled the buffs for winning faction holding keeps but disabled low pop and low score bonus too so you always get 12k so for a keep and 3k for a Ressource no matter how the map looks so neither dominating nor underdog faction get ap bonus there.
Cap to aoe attacks and number of siege you can set and magdeto and bombers beeing to weak counterplay to zergs is reduced so they should remove aoe cap for attacks (but keep it for buffs/heals), let players setup multiple siege and buff magdeto.
Still faction balance in Vengeance is better than in Blackreach PC EU.
Maybe the participating players also were only less willing to give feedback when the test and also the resulting feedback barely changes and most has already been said. Feedback for test 3 is also still incoming.

Iriidius

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

StihlReign wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

You can tell yourself that its not that many people and they will accept a different version of the game that has all the things you dont like disabled and everyone will just accept it. But you know thats not true and the developers do too.

Think what you wish. You can tell yourself everyone wants to play Grey Host while the zone's population continues to drop until you're the last one left. Play the test. Contribute to the data, or don't.

Grey Host live has a more stable and higher population than vengeance has. There wasn't even a queue last night during prime time on a weekend. There would have been a queue of at least 50 if it weren't for vengeance.

There wasnt a queue because Vengeance has 3 times the capacity of GreyHost and would barely reach 3 bars when it has same number of players than GreyHost with 50 queue.

You don't know that. It's an assumption on your part.

Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

• We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.

• We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.

So, no you don't know what you want so desperately to believe.

That statement is in reference to Vengeance 1 specifically. The date of the post was literally six months ago. That's why it's phrased in the past tense. It's history. No statements have been made about what the populations of any other vengeance "test" has been made by ZOS.

You just want to believe a bunch of stuff about vengeance that just isn't true or isn't actually known.

There also was no statement that capacity of Vengeance was reduced in later tests so the assumption should be that it stayed the same because it makes more sense to announce a change than it’s absence and ZoS does it like this in patchnotes.
But it seems to be consensus between haters of Vengeance that the Vengeance capacity got lowered to only 2 times or even the same capacity as GreyHost with no evidence at all and some agreement to not recognize this official statement and take it as proof of the opposite.
How about you show any proof for capacity of vengeance getting reduced?

You either don't even play vengeance or live PvP or something. Because nothing you've posted about vengeance is known factual evidence. And if did play vengeance you'd see how few people there are playing it this time around. There are fewer people in vengeance this time around than there are for normal live mode. Right now, on Monday mid day, there are more people playing grey host that there were playing vengeance yesterday, on a Sunday, at the same time.

Guess half the population of life PvP is not pvping by your definition.

Do you have any proof for GreyHost having more players? I saw 2 bars on PC Na Grey Host on 1 faction which in Vengeance would be 1 bar even when capacity would only be twice GreyHost. But probably you calculate with vengeance capacity beeing equal/lower than GreyHost because you want it that way.

And how does GreyHost having 2 bars at the same time as Blackreach having 1 show that capacity of vengeance is the same or lower than GreyHost and not 3*standart like Brian Wheler wrote.

Ostonoha

aetherix8 wrote: »

It's still on console because you get your maintenance on 1st October, that's when it will be taken down and GH will return. No need to panic.

On the main topic, there are now so many Vengeance threads that it seems some folks are confusing this one with others that claim Vengeance is dead. This thread points to a population imbalance on PC NA, and it is important to understand that with increased population caps such an imbalance becomes a huge issue. If these increased caps become a real thing one day, something has to be done about how either scoring or queues work in Cyrodiil. Or both.

Basically, stop buffing the winning faction ZOS! Or implement dynamic queue locks. Populations must be balanced across factions otherwise it is indeed just a skillless zergfest PvDoor. V3 still had increased pop caps for sure, on PC EU, where it was balanced 2 bars each faction most of the prime time, these bigger numbers of players were obvious.

Also, I don't think that this low participation can be blamed entirely on a PvE event. Sure it drove some players away to a degree, but just a quick look at forums show a waning interest in Vengeance in general. See official feedback threads: V1 10 pages, V2 5 pages, V3 2 pages. Less and less players participate, because a) some boycott it to prevent Vengeance replacing current Cyrodiil, b) players' feedback about balance is not taken into account, c) ZOS doesn't communicate enough what are their intentions further fuelling playerbase insecurity about the future.

Glad to see someone who can read.

Kram8ion

Walked into vengeance this week and got the same stam recovery bug within 10 minutes
Performance failure didn’t matter coz there’s no one in there

Oblivion_Protocol

It’s funny, because I play on PC NA Blackreach often. The EP players who zerged down the entire Vengeance map repeatedly are a lot of the same players who nightcap and zerg down BR every single night from about 11:30pm to 3:00am in the morning. It’s been happening for months now, and I’m not shocked.

Regardless of whether Vengeance is a successful test or not, it’s been the most divisive and poorly-handled thing I’ve ever seen in the game. And if Vengeance turns out to be permanent, it would feel like a huge rug pull solely because of the lack of communication. There’s no roadmap, no plan, and no inkling of what the future looks like. Just a lot of “things are in the pipeline, but we can’t talk about them with certainty, yet”.

aetherix8

Iriidius wrote: »

Feedback for test 3 is also still incoming.

It is indeed, and it messes up my argument as V3 feedback thread now rightfully has 3 pages, and V2 will soon have 6 pages or more as people keep posting their V3 feedback there.