PTS Update 48 - Feedback Thread for Hearts Week Event

ZOS_Kevin · September 15

This is the official feedback thread for the all new Hearts Week Event. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

How do you feel about the distribution of rewards during this event?
Did anything not function to your expectations?
Did you receive the expected rewards from any given source?
Do you have any feedback on the event quests?
Did you hug Kuzam-jo?
Is there anything you would like to see in future iterations of this event?
Do you have any other general feedback?

Aliyavana · September 16

Do you have any feedback on the event quests?

In the PTS Patch Notes v11.2.0, Heart's Week states "In his series of four quests, you learn all about the holiday and how love has many forms, from the mythical romance between the lovers Polydor and Eloisa. ..."

This is further emphasized by "Heartsick Follies: Help a theater crew put on a play honoring the love of Polydor and Eloisa."

If I didn't read the PTS patch notes, I would not have known that the quest was about Polydor and Eloisa at all. I looked through all the dialogue I recorded, and I could not find any mention to their names anywhere.

Polydor and Eloisa were first mentioned in the first Elder Scrolls game back in 1995, and I am the type of person that gets excited when something obscure finally gets referenced. This would be 30 years later when it is finally expanded on so I was disappointed that their names were not mentioned. Not everyone reads patch notes either so the average person will not know what it's about. Unless it was changed last minute to not be about them, is this quest still intended to be about them?

My suggestion is to please include mentions of Polydor and Eloisa in-game, and maybe add a book next to Kuzam-jo that expands on Polydor and Eloisa, as I enjoy the creativity the writing team has for Tamriel's holidays.
Did you hug Kuzam-jo?
YES! Can we please hug an Alfiq next?
Is there anything you would like to see in future iterations of this event?
I'd like the Impressario to have unique dialogue for when Heart's Week is active.

Also, an in-universe explanation on how Heart's Day transitioned from a day to a week and is now known as Heart's Week would be cool.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · September 17

Was the frog supposed to do anything? I might have gotten the ‘wrong’ one but I didn’t notice anything happening after retrieving it, to the point I kept expecting it to be relevant later in the quest.

Also the chocolates by Mr. Nosebreaker can lose the prompt to take them at some angles, there’s stuff in the way that overrides it. If nothing changes I expect a fair number of accidental Soul Gem thefts when this goes live.

Aliyavana wrote: »

Do you have any feedback on the event quests?

In the PTS Patch Notes v11.2.0, Heart's Week states "In his series of four quests, you learn all about the holiday and how love has many forms, from the mythical romance between the lovers Polydor and Eloisa. ..."

This is further emphasized by "Heartsick Follies: Help a theater crew put on a play honoring the love of Polydor and Eloisa."

If I didn't read the PTS patch notes, I would not have known that the quest was about Polydor and Eloisa at all. I looked through all the dialogue I recorded, and I could not find any mention to their names anywhere.

+1 this. I was also disappointed that it seems to skip over most of the play. I can see not having a whole song and dance number but a coherent story would be nice!

tomofhyrule · September 17

So, Heart's Day is on the 16th of February, which is also the summoning day of a certain Daedric Prince, for whom quite a bit of this stuff is themed.

I would like to point out that said Daedric Prince is the only one whose Artifact style has never released in the store. I would also like to point out that every Artifact style releases over the respective Prince's summoning day.

Please make sure that this patch includes the data for the Sanguine's Rose artifact, and please for the love of all things holy, release that during this event in February

Syldras · September 17

I haven't tried that questline yet (will do that later today), but I've already taken a short look at the achievements. Can we discuss the flavor text of the reward boxes?

I know that Sanguine summoning day is on the same day as Heart's Day. I could understand him trying to make the date about himself and possibly manipulating celebrations. What I'm doubtful of is whether the description "appreciation for spreading love" fits here. Because love is clearly nothing he's interested in. Merriment or indulgence maybe, from his point of view, although many lore aspects related to him are much darker (some of them I couldn't even mention on the forum here). I was already disappointed that in the West Solstice quests he was reduced to something completely tame, and people on his celebrations were just drinking, eating and dancing a bit, with one npc even stating, after that one quest is completed, "Now they can go home again." - which is the opposite of what we ever got in lore about Sanguine; the problem with him is exactly that he doesn't let people go, but lures them into a horrible trap with all kinds of promised delights. That had been the main point of daedric "thing": Luring people in, destroying them with excess, moral corruption, addiction, or simple forcing them magically to never stop dancing or drinking, until they die from that. Might that be "love" (for his followers) from his point of view? I don't know. I don't think any lore source ever stated that (correct me if I'm wrong). With this background, the flavor text of those event boxes sounds more like a lore mistake than anything else. But we can discuss that, maybe I've missed something.

Aliyavana · September 17

tomofhyrule wrote: »

So, Heart's Day is on the 16th of February, which is also the summoning day of a certain Daedric Prince, for whom quite a bit of this stuff is themed.

I would like to point out that said Daedric Prince is the only one whose Artifact style has never released in the store. I would also like to point out that every Artifact style releases over the respective Prince's summoning day.

Please make sure that this patch includes the data for the Sanguine's Rose artifact, and please for the love of all things holy, release that during this event in February

Or would be cool to make it earnable in-game for completing heart’s day related achievements

tomofhyrule · September 17

Aliyavana wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

So, Heart's Day is on the 16th of February, which is also the summoning day of a certain Daedric Prince, for whom quite a bit of this stuff is themed.

I would like to point out that said Daedric Prince is the only one whose Artifact style has never released in the store. I would also like to point out that every Artifact style releases over the respective Prince's summoning day.

Please make sure that this patch includes the data for the Sanguine's Rose artifact, and please for the love of all things holy, release that during this event in February

Or would be cool to make it earnable in-game for completing heart’s day related achievements

I understand the desire to make more things earnable instead of shoving them in the crown store, but I’m being realistic here.

15 of the 17 Princes’ artifacts styles have released in the store as a bundle with their respective banner furnishing and an outfit token. It is not predatory for optional cosmetics to be purchaseable with real money, and indeed making one thing in the set earnable in perpetuity while the others are locked behind seasonal purchase is a strange departure.
(Note that it is only 15 of 17, and that’s another issue. The Mace of Molag Bal was never made available as a bundle either—it was only released once ever as part of the Player Appreciation bundle in July 2020, and never again since. That also means that we don’t have the red-backed banner of his that matches the other Daedric banners either. So if we ever got his set released as a standalone, it should also be includes in this patch as his summoning day is 20 December)

WhiteCoatSyndrome · September 17

Syldras wrote: »

I haven't tried that questline yet (will do that later today), but I've already taken a short look at the achievements. Can we discuss the flavor text of the reward boxes?

I know that Sanguine summoning day is on the same day as Heart's Day. I could understand him trying to make the date about himself and possibly manipulating celebrations. What I'm doubtful of is whether the description "appreciation for spreading love" fits here. Because love is clearly nothing he's interested in. Merriment or indulgence maybe, from his point of view, although many lore aspects related to him are much darker (some of them I couldn't even mention on the forum here). I was already disappointed that in the West Solstice quests he was reduced to something completely tame, and people on his celebrations were just drinking, eating and dancing a bit, with one npc even stating, after that one quest is completed, "Now they can go home again." - which is the opposite of what we ever got in lore about Sanguine; the problem with him is exactly that he doesn't let people go, but lures them into a horrible trap with all kinds of promised delights. That had been the main point of daedric "thing": Luring people in, destroying them with excess, moral corruption, addiction, or simple forcing them magically to never stop dancing or drinking, until they die from that. Might that be "love" (for his followers) from his point of view? I don't know. I don't think any lore source ever stated that (correct me if I'm wrong). With this background, the flavor text of those event boxes sounds more like a lore mistake than anything else. But we can discuss that, maybe I've missed something.

+1, I feel like ZOS keeps trying to push the idea that Daedra in general aren’t dangerous when being dangerous and tempting mortals into doing things they shouldn’t is kind of their main purpose.

Syldras · September 17

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

+1, I feel like ZOS keeps trying to push the idea that Daedra in general aren’t dangerous when being dangerous and tempting mortals into doing things they shouldn’t is kind of their main purpose.

Especially when I look at the Sanguine quests we got in Solstice, it's obvious the depiction there completely clashes with everything we got in lore about Sanguine so far. It even contradicts what we know is his sole goal and the purpose of his existence: the corruption of mortals. Unfortunately, without a plausible explanation why things are suddenly different, it feels just like a lore mistake.

And now we even get this part about Sanguine caring for "spreading love". I'd like to understand why we see these changes?

tomofhyrule · September 17

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I haven't tried that questline yet (will do that later today), but I've already taken a short look at the achievements. Can we discuss the flavor text of the reward boxes?

I know that Sanguine summoning day is on the same day as Heart's Day. I could understand him trying to make the date about himself and possibly manipulating celebrations. What I'm doubtful of is whether the description "appreciation for spreading love" fits here. Because love is clearly nothing he's interested in. Merriment or indulgence maybe, from his point of view, although many lore aspects related to him are much darker (some of them I couldn't even mention on the forum here). I was already disappointed that in the West Solstice quests he was reduced to something completely tame, and people on his celebrations were just drinking, eating and dancing a bit, with one npc even stating, after that one quest is completed, "Now they can go home again." - which is the opposite of what we ever got in lore about Sanguine; the problem with him is exactly that he doesn't let people go, but lures them into a horrible trap with all kinds of promised delights. That had been the main point of daedric "thing": Luring people in, destroying them with excess, moral corruption, addiction, or simple forcing them magically to never stop dancing or drinking, until they die from that. Might that be "love" (for his followers) from his point of view? I don't know. I don't think any lore source ever stated that (correct me if I'm wrong). With this background, the flavor text of those event boxes sounds more like a lore mistake than anything else. But we can discuss that, maybe I've missed something.

+1, I feel like ZOS keeps trying to push the idea that Daedra in general aren’t dangerous when being dangerous and tempting mortals into doing things they shouldn’t is kind of their main purpose.

There absolutely is a “sanding down” of their harsher elements that is honestly not fun - add to that the fact that some like Meridia and Azura are continually presented as embodiments of all good when they are absolutely not in the slightest: Meridia may not kill you outright, but displease her and she purifies you and removes your free will with a snap. I’ve also seen that a lot with Uncle Sheo’s transition from “Lord of Mental Illness” to “lol random cheese!!!1!1!1”

If the quest/boxes need to specifically reference spreading love across the land, we have a deity for that: Mara. That was literally the point of the Maran questline in Skyrim.

Sanguine, on the other hand, is all about excess. That’s not love; it’s lust, temptation, debauchery.

Please stop trying to remove the dirtier elements from the Elder Scrolls. Not everything needs to be black-and-white good-versus-evil. Shades of grey are so much more interesting and realistic. Black-and-white thinking too easily leads to… well, we see what it leads to in real life.

Aliyavana · September 17

My only explanation is that this may be an aspect of sanguine that may only on the surface be fun and safe. A gateway that would mislead the unaware of foolish to explore his darker aspects.

Syldras · September 17

Aliyavana wrote: »

My only explanation is that this may be an aspect of sanguine that may only on the surface be fun and safe. A gateway that would mislead the unaware of foolish to explore his darker aspects.

At the end of the overland Carnival quest on West Solstice, the guests literally went home happily. That was the whole conclusion of the quest.

Now, some of them might come again - maybe, maybe not - , and Sanguine could corrupt them over time. But there was nothing that hinted on that, not even in background lore. And it also isn't clear why he would do that, as we know from earlier lore how he can just trap people anytime (so no need to gently manipulate them over weeks and months) - and usually did that.

Without even a tiny hint at ulterior intentions, the quest leaves a completely wrong impression to players who knew nothing about Sanguine before, and for people with lore knowledge, it just felt lore-breaking.

Syldras · September 18

So, I finally did the questline this evening.

How do you feel about the distribution of rewards during this event?
I've only played the event questline so far. The number of boxes we got there seemed reasonable for the quests.

Did anything not function to your expectations?
The memento we're supposed to get at the end of the quest was not unlocked.

Did you hug Kuzam-jo?
No. And I appreciate very much that we get the option to say no. I wish that in "flirty" dialogues throughout the game, we'd get the same agency. I understand of course that not everyone is as considerate and friendly as a Mara priest, but I'd still like to see dialogue options (might even include punching, if needed) to make flirty npcs stop their advances, if I choose so.

Do you have any feedback on the event quests?

I liked that it was a slightly longer questline (compared to other event quests), that there were some different tasks, and especially that there were different solutions for us to choose for some of the tasks.

What I'm unsure about is, again, the lore (Sorry!). I don't get why a Mara priest would be absolutely fine with Sanguine showing up (or any Daedric Prince, really). We have lots of established lore about the conflicts between Aedra and Daedra worshippers, let alone priests. An Aedra priest not only tolerating, but welcoming a Daedric Prince to an Aedric celebration seems very strange.

The reasoning, which was something among the lines of "love is not everything it needs, passion is also important", didn't really fit, since Sanguine is not about passion, but about excess - about inherently harmful aspects. For passion, beauty and more physical aspects (as an opposite to the mental/emotional aspect of love), we even have an Aedra: Dibella.

MrGraves · September 18

Is there anything you would like to see in future iterations of this event?
Furnishings! Especially in the vein of Dibella or Mara. (We really need a Mara statue and statuette)

Do you have any other general feedback?
I don't like the hat on duelist of hearts not allowing hair to be shown. This makes the hat (which is otherwise really cool) unusable for me. Additionally I not like when outfits have undyable parts that are stuck a certain colour like the RED roses and pinkish laces. I do like that the outfit style does NOT have front or back or hip flaps. The overall style is great but has some major design flaws as mentioned.

Freelancer_ESO · 1:36AM

How do you feel about the distribution of rewards during this event?

Seemed fine. I got a Gold Companion item on the first day.

Do you have any feedback on the event quests?

I had a good time with the quests for the most part . I especially liked the quest for the Blue Group.

I'm not sure everything was totally lore appropriate but, I think if you followed the lore I'd possibly be skipping some of the quests on some of my characters so...

Did you hug Kuzam-jo?
No.

I did find the pickup hug in the prior quest amusing.

emilyhyoyeon · 5:30PM

I'd just like to add another comment being confused about why Sanguine is a part of Heart's Day; why not use Dibella and Mara? This kind of lore stuff is important, I think.

tomofhyrule · 6:30PM

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I'd just like to add another comment being confused about why Sanguine is a part of Heart's Day; why not use Dibella and Mara? This kind of lore stuff is important, I think.

There is some sense in Sanguine being part of Heart's Day in the first place - his Summoning day is Heart's Day and lust/temptation is definitely his sphere. As happens in the modern world as well, his influence has been sanded off to make the event more about love and harmony, but that was specifically done by Maran/Dibellan priests appropriating the festival the same way that many modern holidays like Christmas and Halloween have been appropriated from the Pagan/Celtic traditions of the past (and then capitalism came by and even appropriated them from the religious traditions so now we have fully non-religious cash grabs).

Long story short, though, the boxes should not reference Sanguine and his desire to spread love across Tamriel, it should be Mara. Sanguine should be a part of the event, but in the same way that his is the old (and much less sanitized) version of the holiday that is 0% wholesome.