Subclassing has sucked the life out of patch 46

moderatelyfatman · May 19

I'm in 3 guild discords and normally they would be brimming with discussions over the latest content, especially trials.
Normally they'd be PTS trial groups running for people who can't wait for the release day.
Other people would be commenting about the story or lore in the new zone.
But this year the discords have been dead. No one is excited for the new builds that are going to be available.

Is this the case for you?

Erickson9610 · May 19

Not the case for me. There's been a lot of discussion about PvP builds now that we can make use of Subclassing to trim the skill lines we don't need. I'm personally very excited for it.

a_u_s_t_y · May 19

I’m in several pvp discords and every week they get more and more quiet.. specially with the minimal amount of changes on the pts.

Not seen any positives out of the PvP communities I’m in for this patch, just all doom and gloom.. first time I’ve seen this reaction in such abundance, kinda sucks

cuddles_with_wroble · May 19

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

I’m in several pvp discords and every week they get more and more quiet.. specially with the minimal amount of changes on the pts.

Not seen any positives out of the PvP communities I’m in for this patch, just all doom and gloom.. first time I’ve seen this reaction in such abundance, kinda sucks

There isn’t really anything new or interesting next patch, when you boil it down all that’s really changing is that what’s good now is gonna be even better and what’s bad now is gonna be even worse. The other big thing it’ll do is completely kill niche play styles that pure classes currently run bcs you won’t be able to justify running the skill lines.

Imo the game is already pretty unbalanced, so this is just gonna make all the issues and bandaid balance patches over the years way more apparent than it has been

sleepy_worm · May 19

My guild is excited about subclassing for the most part.

frogthroat · May 19

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Sarannah · May 19

Personally I think subclassing will be a great addition to the game, maybe it will even allow ZOS to unnerf everything that was nerfed over the years. That would bring the flavor to all the trimmed class abilities back.

But I do share some of the concerns some players have stated, like pure classes no longer being 'good'. As players can basically swap bad skilllines for powerful ones from another class. I am really curious to see how ZOS handles this.

My guess for why players aren't discussing U46 in discords(never used discord myself), is because subclassing is so big and impactful, that there is simply too much to discuss about it.

As long as I can stack my master writs for years to come, I will be happy! (hopefully ZOS makes different envelope types for the difficulties purple/golden, otherwise trying to get writ vouchers is going to be a major pain)

PS: Haven't been on the PTS, never have. As I do not like knowing/seeing things in advance.

MJallday · May 19

It hasnt arrived yet. why would it "suck the life out"?

theres a lot of people jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a limited amount of experience on the PTS.

Im reserving judgement until its been in place a few months.

cuddles_with_wroble · May 19

MJallday wrote: »

It hasnt arrived yet. why would it "suck the life out"?

theres a lot of people jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a limited amount of experience on the PTS.

Im reserving judgement until its been in place a few months.

The game is pretty simple and it’s basically been solved for years, it’s doesn’t really take that much play testing on the pts to know how something will effect the live game, plus like I said subclassing isn’t adding anything new it just lets you stack buffs that you couldn’t stack before so the only real change is that support players are less needed bcs dps are even more self sufficient

KekwLord3000 · May 19

Most active discord for that content would probably be Wild hearts.
But yeah the people who care about PTS the most are the OG's very rarely new players or casuals hop on PTS to test stuff out.
And with every year OG's leaving it makes sense less people test the pts and report.

colossalvoids · May 19

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Only works for something exciting, cool or at least mildly interesting. Here peeps just won't be bothered to.

maboleth · May 19

MJallday wrote: »

It hasnt arrived yet. why would it "suck the life out"?

Haven’t you heard? ESO flatlined in 2015, it's been dead ever since. /rolleyes

MISTFORMBZZZ · May 19

A lot of people i know announced the will quit, when U46 is going life. People i used to play endgame content with for years. Im so dissapointed about all the concerns being ignored.

GeneralGrundmann · May 19

Sarannah wrote: »

[...]
My guess for why players aren't discussing U46 in discords(never used discord myself), is because subclassing is so big and impactful, that there is simply too much to discuss about it.
[...]

For me, that's the reason to behave more quiet. The change to subclassing is revolutionary! There is so much to try, test and evaluate, phew...

frogthroat · May 19

colossalvoids wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Only works for something exciting, cool or at least mildly interesting. Here peeps just won't be bothered to.

This saying is about hardships. No need to overcome exciting or cool things.

cuddles_with_wroble · May 19

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I think subclassing will be a great addition to the game, maybe it will even allow ZOS to unnerf everything that was nerfed over the years. That would bring the flavor to all the trimmed class abilities back.

But I do share some of the concerns some players have stated, like pure classes no longer being 'good'. As players can basically swap bad skilllines for powerful ones from another class. I am really curious to see how ZOS handles this.

My guess for why players aren't discussing U46 in discords(never used discord myself), is because subclassing is so big and impactful, that there is simply too much to discuss about it.

As long as I can stack my master writs for years to come, I will be happy! (hopefully ZOS makes different envelope types for the difficulties purple/golden, otherwise trying to get writ vouchers is going to be a major pain)

PS: Haven't been on the PTS, never have. As I do not like knowing/seeing things in advance.

I have been on the pts, the meta is mostly figured out and there’s really no discussion to be had. Just combine 3 things that are already better than everything else and your winning, it’s that easy

moderatelyfatman · May 19

MJallday wrote: »

It hasnt arrived yet. why would it "suck the life out"?

theres a lot of people jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a limited amount of experience on the PTS.

Im reserving judgement until its been in place a few months.

For Gold Road and Necron, there were prog groups on the PTS learning the trials before they came out.
Other discussions were talking about Ithelia and where the story was going regarding the new daedra lord.
Right now, it's just crickets.

dinokstrunz · May 19

In our community its been this way for last couple of years. Big update excitement/hype has certainly crashed to very small almost non existent levels.

LalMirchi · May 19

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I'm in 3 guild discords and normally they would be brimming with discussions over the latest content, especially trials.
Normally they'd be PTS trial groups running for people who can't wait for the release day.
Other people would be commenting about the story or lore in the new zone.
But this year the discords have been dead. No one is excited for the new builds that are going to be available.

Is this the case for you?

No. I guess it's groupthink where negativity sometimes outweighs common sense. We're discussing builds & the possibilities of the new changes to the game.

AtriaKhorist · May 19

The Discords I am in are largely very positive, despite a few issues seen.

There is general amusement at the given negativity of the official forum per usual, however.

freespirit · May 19

The busiest Discord I'm in has a special section for PTS/New Stuff, I never read that section, I like new stuff to be well.....new!!

I also notice in game the same sentiment in those Guilds, maybe we just all like to discover stuff without our thoughts being unnecessarily impacted by negative information! 🙂

DestroyerPewnack · May 19

It's been an emotional rollercoaster for me. At first, I was excited about the endless possibilities. Then I jumped on the PTS are realized, actually, the possibilities aren't endless. The vast majority of skill line combo's aren't that good, and it looked like we're just going from one narrow meta to the next. But I've been watching some videos, and I'm a little excited again.

I miss feeling lost in ESO. The last time I felt that was almost a decade ago. I think I'll enjoy the update.

AlwaysDancing · May 19

The only place I see people talking about the death of the game due to subclassing is here on the official ESO forum. Everywhere else I go people are looking forward to it, or are at least keeping an open mind.

Sarannah · May 19

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I think subclassing will be a great addition to the game, maybe it will even allow ZOS to unnerf everything that was nerfed over the years. That would bring the flavor to all the trimmed class abilities back.

But I do share some of the concerns some players have stated, like pure classes no longer being 'good'. As players can basically swap bad skilllines for powerful ones from another class. I am really curious to see how ZOS handles this.

My guess for why players aren't discussing U46 in discords(never used discord myself), is because subclassing is so big and impactful, that there is simply too much to discuss about it.

As long as I can stack my master writs for years to come, I will be happy! (hopefully ZOS makes different envelope types for the difficulties purple/golden, otherwise trying to get writ vouchers is going to be a major pain)

PS: Haven't been on the PTS, never have. As I do not like knowing/seeing things in advance.

I have been on the pts, the meta is mostly figured out and there’s really no discussion to be had. Just combine 3 things that are already better than everything else and your winning, it’s that easy

This is the current gaming mindset that is the problem: either be meta or nothing/only rewards vs journey. Where is the sense of playing a game? Having fun? Making fun builds? Enjoying yourself?

Not only does subclassing open up the game and basically grants everyone access to the same meta builds, it also allows players to be creative in the craziest ways. It is going to be fun seeing what players can come up with. If outfitting and housing is any indication, it is going to be absolutely wild! As ESO has one of the most creative communities from any game I have ever played.

That said, I know I am going to try some very fun tanking set-ups! And pet set-ups, as I love pets!

ApoAlaia · May 19

Not in the guild discord or other ESO related discords I am in.

There are concerns about subclassing that have been raised for the team to look at if they wish to but the general 'feeling' seems to be 'not perfect, would be great if some further work as highlighted was done to it, but otherwise an interesting addition to the base game'.

The PTS forum is not a good indicator of what the discourse is like in the 'wider community'.

Elowen_Starveil · May 19

I retired in December, but have been intrigued about subclassing. I've watched some videos and educated myself on how this will work, and talked about it a lot on the forums. Then I logged back in and ran a casual night with an old guild that hadn't kicked me out for inactivity, and one of the more knowledgeable people disagreed with me about how it's going to work, and one of the other people pointed out how that's why he's not learned any of the details: we have to wait till it lands to really understand how it's going to work. And I had to admit he had a good point. There's going to be nuance to this that will impact how you feel about it that you won't contextualize until you try it. So there's really nothing more to say for 2 more weeks unless you want to get into the PTS and try it out, and I don't want to fool with that.

Tenn60 · May 19

I think it’s like any other big change they’ve done to the game. You’re going to have 2 sides and from what I’ve experienced in our guild is a resurgence of interest in the game. We’ve had multiple people come back that haven’t played for a while. I can see people that are in that top 5% that even the hardmodes for trials are too easy being a little turned off because it will make things even easier for them with the power increase(I’m on Xbox so just going off of information I’ve gotten from people on the pts on the power increase). But I think you’ve also got arguably the majority of people that play that enjoy the more casual side of things with questing, roleplaying, theory crafting(probably not as casual but more the theory crafters that enjoy making builds more for feel and look and enjoyment than the hard numbers or viability), etc. that at least in theory will benefit from the increase in options for builds and combinations. Essentially I think you have the people that like Elder Scrolls that would probably prefer they go even further and drop skill lines altogether and let you pick any combination of skills, and people that enjoy mmos that want those classes and want them to have set strengths and weaknesses. The update will cause some to leave and it will also cause some to come back, it’s just the nature of it. And I’m sure the update will launch with bugs and issues, every update has, but I’m more excited for where subclassing can go in the future as they explore it more, and the potential realizing it may turn out horribly and never really get sorted out.

colossalvoids · May 19

frogthroat wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Only works for something exciting, cool or at least mildly interesting. Here peeps just won't be bothered to.

This saying is about hardships. No need to overcome exciting or cool things.

It's a video game, that's the difference here. It's not a difficulty or a challenge to overcome, it's a design that goes the opposite direction from what some people considered good, fun or needed. And that's not the first time, some day you just call it enough and move on to greener pastures.

Drinks_from_Ponds · May 19

I am extremely excited about this change, as a Warden I am good at healing, but I can't dps for the life of me. Having the Arcanist beam is really going to help with doing things etc. All the guilds I am in have been excited for it. I really don't understand why people are upset about this. This is one of the best things to come to the game in a long time. Team ZOS!!!!!

Daoin · May 19

colossalvoids wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Only works for something exciting, cool or at least mildly interesting. Here peeps just won't be bothered to.

This saying is about hardships. No need to overcome exciting or cool things.

It's a video game, that's the difference here. It's not a difficulty or a challenge to overcome, it's a design that goes the opposite direction from what some people considered good, fun or needed. And that's not the first time, some day you just call it enough and move on to greener pastures.

but unless you enjoy first person shooters, the pickings of greener pastures are pretty slim to zero for gaming at the moment, so in reality, what better time for sweeping changes than now ?

Stamicka · May 19

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

In the case of subclassing, this just means everyone who cares about optimization will end up on the same "class". What's fun about that?