Because there isn't really a fix for it, these threads pop up every week or so with a new one. "There is no such thing as a fake tank, healer, or dps", "Ban them, they are ruining my day", "remove leave penalty". The simple solution is for ZoS to make support roles more interesting and fun to play, taunting and pulling in each mob isn't fun game play to me at least. Void bash and a few sets have improved this, but obviously the majority of players don't want to do it. People were making different builds with tormentor and such for pugging and they nerfed that. People don't wanna tank, other than a few, this makes the queues silly long and encourages people to adapt however they can. I used to tank to fill my stickerbook, but it is just not fun anymore.

It's learned behaviour. Over the past year the slowly increasing trend of fake roles in RNDs becoming more widely accepted has now spilled over into RVDs. For Many newer players, this approach to dungeons may be all they really know.

If you were to compare the multitude of Fake Roles threads over the past year, you would actually see the general player attitude evolve over time from predominately unacceptable behavior, to vehemently defended behavior.

Until ESO becomes less accommodating to the Me First play mentality, this type of game play will continue to grow.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

In many dungeons, a dps can tank just by using a single skill slot for a taunt, and a dps can heal by swapping out a single skill slot for a "yourself or ally" heal ability. Is that really so hard? Why do people not do that? I always queue as tank or healer if I ever do a normal dungeon, but I always actually do that job. It's so easy to do, why would you not?

Pevey wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

In many dungeons, a dps can tank just by using a single skill slot for a taunt, and a dps can heal by swapping out a single skill slot for a "yourself or ally" heal ability. Is that really so hard? Why do people not do that? I always queue as tank or healer if I ever do a normal dungeon, but I always actually do that job. It's so easy to do, why would you not?

It's not just the taunt or the heals, the buffs are important as well. Even the armour sets can contribute to the groups overall performance. Fakes don't have that.

frogthroat wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Fake tanking is a thing in this game because the game is really easy. Nothing really punishes someone with damage...especially since a lot of the content can be steam rolled with so much dps.

Not really. Although this is an MMO and as an action game this is not the most difficult, you have to remember many players - a large number of players do not come from other MMO games, but from The Elder Scrolls single player games.

Me included.

And for a huge number of players this is a challenging game. The build system is incredibly complicated and overwhelming for new players and even to some who have played for years. If you come from an MMO background, some difficult action game background (like a veteran Fromsoftware enjoyers), or put the time and effort to learn all the confusing things in this game, then it becomes easy.

This is a game where there are players who have played MMO all their lives. And there are players who enjoy the scenery in Skyrim. And everything between. This game is not easy for everyone. I, personally, want more people in veteran content. We don't get those Skyrim questers to put the effort to become better veteran players if we fake tank and then blame everyone else for a wipe.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

This kind of fake tanking/healing I don't mind. I sometimes do that too. And make sure I do it on a character I have a build for the role I queue for. And I always write in the chat in the beginning of the dungeon. "hi, I am on a dd build but can switch to a healer build if anyone wants." 9/10 times everyone is ok with my fake role. 1/10 times I switch to the correct role.

when someone used to say that then it was also an excuse for me to leave the group at very start. like i was going to hear someone friend thier way into a group fake healing. in the end did not bother me i just pinned it down to likely have been pulled into a pre-made group so it just became normal to leave once those words were spoken. the 1 in 10 was likely me if your in UE server. i mean what are the chances of others saying the exact same thing and expect in a random me to tank or dd to best of my ability without a healer even trying thier role. for me it was just someone else needlessy getting in the way of progress

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Fake tanking is a thing in this game because the game is really easy. Nothing really punishes someone with damage...especially since a lot of the content can be steam rolled with so much dps.

Not really. Although this is an MMO and as an action game this is not the most difficult, you have to remember many players - a large number of players do not come from other MMO games, but from The Elder Scrolls single player games.

Me included.

And for a huge number of players this is a challenging game. The build system is incredibly complicated and overwhelming for new players and even to some who have played for years. If you come from an MMO background, some difficult action game background (like a veteran Fromsoftware enjoyers), or put the time and effort to learn all the confusing things in this game, then it becomes easy.

This is a game where there are players who have played MMO all their lives. And there are players who enjoy the scenery in Skyrim. And everything between. This game is not easy for everyone. I, personally, want more people in veteran content. We don't get those Skyrim questers to put the effort to become better veteran players if we fake tank and then blame everyone else for a wipe.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

This kind of fake tanking/healing I don't mind. I sometimes do that too. And make sure I do it on a character I have a build for the role I queue for. And I always write in the chat in the beginning of the dungeon. "hi, I am on a dd build but can switch to a healer build if anyone wants." 9/10 times everyone is ok with my fake role. 1/10 times I switch to the correct role.

when someone used to say that then it was also an excuse for me to leave the group at very start. like i was going to hear someone friend thier way into a group fake healing. in the end did not bother me i just pinned it down to likely have been pulled into a pre-made group so it just became normal to leave once those words were spoken. the 1 in 10 was likely me if your in UE server. i mean what are the chances of others saying the exact same thing and expect in a random me to tank or dd to best of my ability without a healer even trying thier role. for me it was just someone else needlessy getting in the way of progress

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. The moment anyone says they would prefer a healer, I don't argue, I just switch to a healer build. And even if we try with 3DDs and wipe, I switch without asking.

Often in base games and non-HM DLC dungeons healer is pretty unnecessary so with a DD build we get it through faster. Unless someone specced to need a healer, then I heal.

I have never had anyone leave because I offer to play my role.

probably just an uncanny coincidence others saying the exact same thing, but i would have still left at the mention of it at the start of a group, fungal 1 or the harder dlc hm's aslong as fake healer and dlc hm were mentioned at the start, even likely more so for fungal one where 2 dd's is always enough. i always just fely those fungal ones vet were perfect gfor upcoming healer to practice the role. infact became pretty funny watching one dd (or fake healer) run off in fungal 1 then hitting the leave button without anything being said

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Fake tanking is a thing in this game because the game is really easy. Nothing really punishes someone with damage...especially since a lot of the content can be steam rolled with so much dps.

Not really. Although this is an MMO and as an action game this is not the most difficult, you have to remember many players - a large number of players do not come from other MMO games, but from The Elder Scrolls single player games.

Me included.

And for a huge number of players this is a challenging game. The build system is incredibly complicated and overwhelming for new players and even to some who have played for years. If you come from an MMO background, some difficult action game background (like a veteran Fromsoftware enjoyers), or put the time and effort to learn all the confusing things in this game, then it becomes easy.

This is a game where there are players who have played MMO all their lives. And there are players who enjoy the scenery in Skyrim. And everything between. This game is not easy for everyone. I, personally, want more people in veteran content. We don't get those Skyrim questers to put the effort to become better veteran players if we fake tank and then blame everyone else for a wipe.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

This kind of fake tanking/healing I don't mind. I sometimes do that too. And make sure I do it on a character I have a build for the role I queue for. And I always write in the chat in the beginning of the dungeon. "hi, I am on a dd build but can switch to a healer build if anyone wants." 9/10 times everyone is ok with my fake role. 1/10 times I switch to the correct role.

when someone used to say that then it was also an excuse for me to leave the group at very start. like i was going to hear someone friend thier way into a group fake healing. in the end did not bother me i just pinned it down to likely have been pulled into a pre-made group so it just became normal to leave once those words were spoken. the 1 in 10 was likely me if your in UE server. i mean what are the chances of others saying the exact same thing and expect in a random me to tank or dd to best of my ability without a healer even trying thier role. for me it was just someone else needlessy getting in the way of progress

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. The moment anyone says they would prefer a healer, I don't argue, I just switch to a healer build. And even if we try with 3DDs and wipe, I switch without asking.

Often in base games and non-HM DLC dungeons healer is pretty unnecessary so with a DD build we get it through faster. Unless someone specced to need a healer, then I heal.

I have never had anyone leave because I offer to play my role.

probably just an uncanny coincidence others saying the exact same thing, but i would have still left at the mention of it at the start of a group, fungal 1 or the harder dlc hm's aslong as fake healer and dlc hm were mentioned at the start, even likely more so for fungal one where 2 dd's is always enough. i always just fely those fungal ones vet were perfect gfor upcoming healer to practice the role. infact became pretty funny watching one dd (or fake healer) run off in fungal 1 then hitting the leave button without anything being said

If you prefer to leave instead of having a real healer, that is fine. That's why I have also my solo build with that character so as long as someone stays in the group, we will finish the dungeon.

yep not really that hard to solo vet fungal one for you i guess, yes i prefer to leave as changing character to another tank healer or dd usually provided a more interseting experience. i mean the times i am not pulled into the same group dare i change to a character of the same role and risk hitting another char with a long cooldown, before the leaving times asking politely for a kick for myself to avoid those situations and the cool down penalty seemed to send players into massive insult mode towards just wanting to be kicked, so i the past i would have just prefer to have got the kick but it was becoming unreasonablu uncomfortable asking for a kick, but thats a completent other story as you likely never experienced this either. i must ask are you in the NA server ?

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Fake tanking is a thing in this game because the game is really easy. Nothing really punishes someone with damage...especially since a lot of the content can be steam rolled with so much dps.

Not really. Although this is an MMO and as an action game this is not the most difficult, you have to remember many players - a large number of players do not come from other MMO games, but from The Elder Scrolls single player games.

Me included.

And for a huge number of players this is a challenging game. The build system is incredibly complicated and overwhelming for new players and even to some who have played for years. If you come from an MMO background, some difficult action game background (like a veteran Fromsoftware enjoyers), or put the time and effort to learn all the confusing things in this game, then it becomes easy.

This is a game where there are players who have played MMO all their lives. And there are players who enjoy the scenery in Skyrim. And everything between. This game is not easy for everyone. I, personally, want more people in veteran content. We don't get those Skyrim questers to put the effort to become better veteran players if we fake tank and then blame everyone else for a wipe.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

This kind of fake tanking/healing I don't mind. I sometimes do that too. And make sure I do it on a character I have a build for the role I queue for. And I always write in the chat in the beginning of the dungeon. "hi, I am on a dd build but can switch to a healer build if anyone wants." 9/10 times everyone is ok with my fake role. 1/10 times I switch to the correct role.

when someone used to say that then it was also an excuse for me to leave the group at very start. like i was going to hear someone friend thier way into a group fake healing. in the end did not bother me i just pinned it down to likely have been pulled into a pre-made group so it just became normal to leave once those words were spoken. the 1 in 10 was likely me if your in UE server. i mean what are the chances of others saying the exact same thing and expect in a random me to tank or dd to best of my ability without a healer even trying thier role. for me it was just someone else needlessy getting in the way of progress

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. The moment anyone says they would prefer a healer, I don't argue, I just switch to a healer build. And even if we try with 3DDs and wipe, I switch without asking.

Often in base games and non-HM DLC dungeons healer is pretty unnecessary so with a DD build we get it through faster. Unless someone specced to need a healer, then I heal.

I have never had anyone leave because I offer to play my role.

probably just an uncanny coincidence others saying the exact same thing, but i would have still left at the mention of it at the start of a group, fungal 1 or the harder dlc hm's aslong as fake healer and dlc hm were mentioned at the start, even likely more so for fungal one where 2 dd's is always enough. i always just fely those fungal ones vet were perfect gfor upcoming healer to practice the role. infact became pretty funny watching one dd (or fake healer) run off in fungal 1 then hitting the leave button without anything being said

If you prefer to leave instead of having a real healer, that is fine. That's why I have also my solo build with that character so as long as someone stays in the group, we will finish the dungeon.

yep not really that hard to solo vet fungal one for you i guess, yes i prefer to leave as changing character to another tank healer or dd usually provided a more interseting experience. i mean the times i am not pulled into the same group dare i change to a character of the same role and rist hitting another char with a long cooldown

I really don't understand this now. You are against switching builds with the armory assistant? Or why is it bad to have multiple builds for one character? My main has trial DD, dungeon DD, tank, healer, PVP and solo builds saved in the armory. Why switching between the builds would be a bad thing?

are you NA server ?

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

cptscotty wrote: »

Fake tanking is a thing in this game because the game is really easy. Nothing really punishes someone with damage...especially since a lot of the content can be steam rolled with so much dps.

Not really. Although this is an MMO and as an action game this is not the most difficult, you have to remember many players - a large number of players do not come from other MMO games, but from The Elder Scrolls single player games.

Me included.

And for a huge number of players this is a challenging game. The build system is incredibly complicated and overwhelming for new players and even to some who have played for years. If you come from an MMO background, some difficult action game background (like a veteran Fromsoftware enjoyers), or put the time and effort to learn all the confusing things in this game, then it becomes easy.

This is a game where there are players who have played MMO all their lives. And there are players who enjoy the scenery in Skyrim. And everything between. This game is not easy for everyone. I, personally, want more people in veteran content. We don't get those Skyrim questers to put the effort to become better veteran players if we fake tank and then blame everyone else for a wipe.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I always queue as a fake tank/fake healer, but I have actual tank/healer setups that I can quickly swap to with the armory NPC, if needed for specific encounters.
Reason for that is that I find tanking/healing to be boring, but I also don't want to wait an hour in queue.

This kind of fake tanking/healing I don't mind. I sometimes do that too. And make sure I do it on a character I have a build for the role I queue for. And I always write in the chat in the beginning of the dungeon. "hi, I am on a dd build but can switch to a healer build if anyone wants." 9/10 times everyone is ok with my fake role. 1/10 times I switch to the correct role.

when someone used to say that then it was also an excuse for me to leave the group at very start. like i was going to hear someone friend thier way into a group fake healing. in the end did not bother me i just pinned it down to likely have been pulled into a pre-made group so it just became normal to leave once those words were spoken. the 1 in 10 was likely me if your in UE server. i mean what are the chances of others saying the exact same thing and expect in a random me to tank or dd to best of my ability without a healer even trying thier role. for me it was just someone else needlessy getting in the way of progress

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. The moment anyone says they would prefer a healer, I don't argue, I just switch to a healer build. And even if we try with 3DDs and wipe, I switch without asking.

Often in base games and non-HM DLC dungeons healer is pretty unnecessary so with a DD build we get it through faster. Unless someone specced to need a healer, then I heal.

I have never had anyone leave because I offer to play my role.

probably just an uncanny coincidence others saying the exact same thing, but i would have still left at the mention of it at the start of a group, fungal 1 or the harder dlc hm's aslong as fake healer and dlc hm were mentioned at the start, even likely more so for fungal one where 2 dd's is always enough. i always just fely those fungal ones vet were perfect gfor upcoming healer to practice the role. infact became pretty funny watching one dd (or fake healer) run off in fungal 1 then hitting the leave button without anything being said

If you prefer to leave instead of having a real healer, that is fine. That's why I have also my solo build with that character so as long as someone stays in the group, we will finish the dungeon.

yep not really that hard to solo vet fungal one for you i guess, yes i prefer to leave as changing character to another tank healer or dd usually provided a more interseting experience. i mean the times i am not pulled into the same group dare i change to a character of the same role and rist hitting another char with a long cooldown

I really don't understand this now. You are against switching builds with the armory assistant? Or why is it bad to have multiple builds for one character? My main has trial DD, dungeon DD, tank, healer, PVP and solo builds saved in the armory. Why switching between the builds would be a bad thing?

are you NA server ?

But going back to the topic, I still don't really understand the problem. Maybe you can help me understand why offering to switch between roles and having the builds to do that is a cause for you to leave the dungeon?

Yeah it’s why I stopped bringing tanks into random normals and only run vet content with guild mates. Also if I am the tank and the dps or healers pull a fight I will not take aggro back.

frogthroat wrote: »

Not really. Although this is an MMO and as an action game this is not the most difficult, you have to remember many players - a large number of players do not come from other MMO games, but from The Elder Scrolls single player games.

Me included.

And for a huge number of players this is a challenging game. The build system is incredibly complicated and overwhelming for new players and even to some who have played for years. If you come from an MMO background, some difficult action game background (like a veteran Fromsoftware enjoyers), or put the time and effort to learn all the confusing things in this game, then it becomes easy.

This is true to an extent, and I posted to that effect earlier. However, only a little bit of research is required for practically any player to hit 20k dps so. I've observed countless Skyrim casuals improve in a very short period of time. I've watched mechanically slow Skyrim baby boomers learn how to clear vMA without a death. ZOS has given players very low hanging fruit.

What follows isn't a response to the player I quoted above.

It's ironic how there is so much disdain for bad tanks -- which is what a fake tank is -- and so much sympathy for low dps players.

In this thread, it is noted how important it is for tanks to wear sets that buff their teammates. Why is is there not the same onus on dps to have competent parsing gear and rotations? To me, there is little difference between a tank that doesn't taunt and a dps that just spams arrow spray the entire run. Consider what happens when a real tank and real healer get two arrow spray spammer dds in a vet dlc dungeon.

This isn't just a passtime just to enjoy the scenery. It is a game with gameplay. Gameplay implies rules. In all games, it is important to learn at least the basics. I think it's totally fair for VETERAN content to require that.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

It does matter who the boss targets, because someone not expecting it and not experienced in handling it will make the dungeon a slog, moving the bosses all over the place and probably dying, too.
If it doesn’t matter who the boss targets because the damage is so low, then why not taunt to ensure they target you? Probably because you are not actually experienced enough to dps/tank and you know you would die, too. To queue for a role you have no intention of filling at a minimal level and not even feel guilty about ruining others’ experience is sociopathically selfish behavior. The logical hoops people will jump through to try to rationalize it are amusing.

Oh, I can dps and tank, but that taunt skill will probably have to replace something like Camo Hunter, and I can't be bothered to swap it in and out just for an rnd run. How's that for a logical hoop? 😂

You need to calm down. There's no need for name-calling. This is just a game, and to act as if it's the frontier for ethical debate is to be unintentionally satirical.

Besides, the game already has a vote-to-kick system. And if that doesn't work, you can simply leave group and try again. Maybe with a pre-made group this time.

How about you play the way you like, and I play the way I like? After all, there's really nothing either one of us can do about it. A simple, yet elegant solution.

Indeed, some additional logical hoops, now with a large helping of hyperbole and accusations of things that did not happen. There was no name-calling, and if I were any calmer today, even the coffee wouldn't be able to keep me awake.

"It's just a game" is quite true, and when people do things in game like scam others in crown trades, raiding guild banks, etc., there are always people who will defend it with this phrase. It's just a game, and people should take means to protect themselves if they don't want this to happen to them, i.e., they should let others play how they want. I disagree when it comes to fake roles, and I stated so, and you seem to be very personally affronted. Maybe that is something you should think about. Perhaps some latent guilt after all. ZOS generally does not police any of the actions I mentioned above. ESO is a social game, and any time you have enough people together, some will engage in actions others consider antisocial. It's the nature of things. In any case, of course you will continue to play how you want, and others will consider that particular behavior sociopathic. This conversation is about as old as ESO. We are all here just sharing our opinions.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Oh, I can dps and tank, but that taunt skill will probably have to replace something like Camo Hunter, and I can't be bothered to swap it in and out just for an rnd run. How's that for a logical hoop? 😂

Gotta love it when the fake dps perma combat lock you or start ninja pulling before you even have a chance to load in. But that kinda how normals be, not very organized and just brute force since no one wants to learn mechs or basics anyway.

Daoin wrote: »

i know you do not realize it in what this post is but you just insulted an old friend of mine that was a dual bow user and left the game around 4 years ago after too much pressure for being a bow build, and today saying that out loud in the same group as me i dont care who or what you think you are you going on my block list, if only that could have meant never bump into you again, in the past of playing eso or in the furure of gaming. the person i am talking about was a real nice person and respected in and out of our guild at the time who's favourate skill happened to be arrow spray in and out of dungeons

I do not think it's reasonable for someone to be insulted by what I posted. Please keep in mind I am writing in the context of veteran content which is intended for veteran players with a good grasp of the game.

Bow/Bow builds can be awesome. I am not criticizing those. However, if all a player does is use arrow spray, they are objectively not performing well and certainly not to the level they should be to complete veteran content.

It's pretty common for overland players to reach the conclusion that an AE spammable makes the most sense because overland opponents are so easily defeated. However, this does not scale upwards very far.

If they want to play that way, all the power to them. There is content designed for that kind of play style. Most veteran content is not. Fortunately, there are normal versions of everything right-sized for players who want to play how they want without regards for the rules of the game.

I don't think there's any shame in not being good at a game. I'm an older player and a shell of my former self as a gamer and I couldn't care less. There are PVP games i used to be competitive in, but I simply can't beat gamers in their prime anymore. I am less good at ESO every year no matter how hard I try because my body is changing. It's a good thing it's just a game, so who cares!

twisttop138 wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

I've been doing all dungeons on vet for the past month now and I can honestly say there are quite a few people who shouldn't be stepping foot in a vet dungeon yet. I've seen tanks who would walk right into obvious AOEs and die multiple times because of it, or miss an attack that has to be dodged (Dungeons like Graven Deep and Shipwright's Regret). I've been in dungeons where my DPS is 85% because the other DD is using a Xynode build, or where DD's will use Pale Order and constantly die to mechanics that could've been healed through. The dungeons are easier when you leave them dead.

For the most part, vet dungeons and their mechanics are easy. Hard modes are a different story, but don't take long to learn. If you ever plan on going into a vet DLC dungeon, watch a mechanics video before going in, and if you're on PC, get Code's Combat Alerts so you can know what is happening. Don't just hope in and try to learn on the fly. On average, non HM vet DLC dungeons take 15-20 minute to finish. Don't contribute to the timer reaching 40+ minutes because you didn't want to take the time to research.

I think a lot of people, not the fakers but the ones who don't know what they're doing, are missing out on a great resource. I would say to someone that wants to learn vet dungeons the the dungeon finder is absolutely not where you should be. Yes you could watch a video, but finding a good guild solves so many problems. My guild runs 4 vet dungeon teaching runs a week. I go to at least 2 even though I've been through them all now because I want to actually learn the mechanics, be able to lead my own groups. Even if you don't want that though, why put yourself through being the guy that keeps wiping the group in content you're not ready for.

Why would you think you could just jump into shipwrights as an example of one you need to know something about, without knowing anything and think you could do it. (Not you the poster I quoted)

When graven deep was the pledge, I ran it like 6 times on vet through the dungeon finder and only had 2 successful runs. The other 4 runs failed because the tank died to mechanics and let the boss loose. A couple of tanks from those failed runs did mention they were new and wanted to learn mechanics to get better at tanking. I would agree with you that the dungeon finder is absolutely not where they should be if they want to learn tanking, especially in a vet dungeon they've never been in before while being sub 600 CP. I'd wager the response to your question is that they don't want to commit to a guild and want to use randos for their learning purposes since it's easier to do, no strings attached.

Honestly, if someone wants to learn tanking without committing to a guild, their best option is to run the IA all the way to the end of Arc 4 over and over again as a tanky damage dealer. You learn so much about managing your resources and survivability in there. You learn about what enemies can hit hard, what needs to be blocked, what to stay out of, what to interrupt, what to dodge, everything. I've never tanked before, but was thinking of getting into it since I know how to keep myself alive, manage resources, and already have all the meta tank sets in my collection book. At that point, it's only learning the tank specific mechanics of what to block or dodge, and Code's already notifies me about the majority of mechanics that need to be blocked or dodged whenever a boss or heavy add gets loose.