I'm sorry guys but I have to do it. Just this once I'm going to expose eso secrets no top players want you to know about.

@Tigor
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

you're welcome

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Why is this thread still going? Do they just not moderate until someone says a Bad Word?

Why bad words? Here I can at least show my best version as in the game the constant trolling by tower runners, ballgroups and so forth, since Vengeance has finished is skyrocketing again. What make the cheesy builds a silly performance of the game. And let me guess these builds have been fine tuned during the test. The number of individuals using them now again, were most likely those that did not attend the event and that is explaining it all. So stop creating, running and sharing them!

Thats the old cheat engine / external tool type cheat. Ironically if people really wanted to grab scrolls from keeps unintended they would just abuse ZOS's most broken set instead of going so far to actually use cheating tools but thankfully few do.

Tigor wrote: »

Yesterday 3 players hanging around Arrius Blackreach could not be killed by a large group of players and we had to leave as the boredom kicked in.

Walking through walls is cheating. This isn't cheating, just casual zergers not knowing how to kill them.

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

Cheating caught live, last night pc na greyhost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m01LnAz8W_w

Hopefully it was reported, along with the video documentation.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

If someone it is not killable then it is cheating.

No, it means you aren't skilled enough to kill them. Sorry.

No one could.

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I'm sorry guys but I have to do it. Just this once I'm going to expose eso secrets no top players want you to know about.

@Tigor
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

you're welcome

In all honesty though, I spent 2 entire years trying to get good at making pvp builds. The problem is that there are a lot of people out there showing garbage builds or pretending they update their builds at each patch even though, in hindsight, it's obvious they haven't been updated since hybridization (*cough cough* Alcast *cough cough*).

There are just so many different builds you can make, so many obscure passives that matter a lot (I've only started using heavy/medium/light armor like a year ago because I didn't understand the undaunted passive), so many traits and enchants, that new players have to look at what other people are using to get an idea of what gear is good.

The problem here is that there are a lot of people who act like they know what they're talking about but end up leading players such as me to use outdated stuff. And how do you know if they're good or not when you don't know anything about the game ? You can't.. My first pvp build was a magdk using bright throat's boast xD (thanks again Alcast). At least someone in Bergama instantly told me it was ass

If only someone was there to tell me to just slot RC/Essence thief/Balorgh I wouldn't have had to spend those 2 years experimenting with different builds and looking at dozens of different build creators to see if they know what they're doing or not

Navaac223 wrote: »

In all honesty though, I spent 2 entire years trying to get good at making pvp builds. The problem is that there are a lot of people out there showing garbage builds or pretending they update their builds at each patch even though, in hindsight, it's obvious they haven't been updated since hybridization (*cough cough* Alcast *cough cough*).

There are just so many different builds you can make, so many obscure passives that matter a lot (I've only started using heavy/medium/light armor like a year ago because I didn't understand the undaunted passive), so many traits and enchants, that new players have to look at what other people are using to get an idea of what gear is good.

The problem here is that there are a lot of people who act like they know what they're talking about but end up leading players such as me to use outdated stuff. And how do you know if they're good or not when you don't know anything about the game ? You can't.. My first pvp build was a magdk using bright throat's boast xD (thanks again Alcast). At least someone in Bergama instantly told me it was ass

If only someone was there to tell me to just slot RC/Essence thief/Balorgh I wouldn't have had to spend those 2 years experimenting with different builds and looking at dozens of different build creators to see if they know what they're doing or not

It's pretty easy to figure out which builds are worth using. People like Malcolm and Heresya have proven their skill through countless streams and videos, and have shared their builds on many occasions. Malcolm even has his own website featuring a ton of builds by him and other people who are competent in their given areas. That's always a great place to start.

From my experience, the issue is not necessarily that the information isn't out there - it really is. It's that people have a certain idea in their head of how they want to play and how effective they want to be out of the box, so they will ignore half the advice they are given and don't put in the hours to actually become decent at the game. The mentality on display in this thread - to be accusatory rather than inquisitive - is what actively hinders those players from improving their gameplay.

Also, on a more general note, if anyone wants to actually learn how group play works and how it's possible to win against a zerg outnumbered, just ask me. It's not information that I think is very exciting but since people still try to explain it away as cheating it's important to not gatekeep basic gameplay info.

Tigor wrote: »

Are we playing against machines? I simply don’t believe what I have just read. As if players not try to improve and are thinking wrongly. Another example of trying to patronize comes up in my mind. Everyone should play as they want, also in a group in order to become successful. Therefore the game needs to become more simple to prevent from more dependency on the so called game aristocracy that spend all there time and fame in only making builds. They want us make believe is very simple as everyone has access, but it actually takes many hours. If I want to play tennis I buy a racket and find another player and a go to a club and start playing, as an example. After some training we will improve. In this game we have just have to spend more and more time on finding the basic things. It has grown to large in a small world for the casual player that just want to play in Cyrodiil instead of tennis for professionals. Have a nice day.

What is patronizing is accusing people of foul play for the crime of not being defeated by your group while being outnumbered. The reason I keep offering information is simply to refute this idea that people are relying on clandestine builds/tactics. It is as I say - relevant information is available to those who want it, yet most people prefer to complain instead.

We can drown in analogies about sports that have nothing to do with a fantasy video game, but the reality is that in its current state, ESO can be very asymmetric when it comes to optimizing stats. A group losing 10v3 is not unheard of - it is in fact a predictable outcome when those 3 have fully synergized set-ups that each player understands, while the 10 rush into battle without any defensive/offensive buffs up while wearing subpar builds and not understanding the tactics the enemy is planning to hit them with. You don't have to like it, but that is currently how the game works and the people who play accordingly aren't doing anything wrong.

And no, making a build does not usually take hours. Even if it did, it would not be an issue since you can find many good builds online for free.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

If I want to play tennis I buy a racket and find another player and a go to a club and start playing, as an example.

So if I lose at tennis, it's not because I suck at tennis, it's because my opponent was cheating. Got it.

No you didn't get my point, and are asking actually for more explanation. If you lose at tennis then it is clear your opponent is better, because you both have the same gear and the rules are clear. Here it is not and that often results in cheating impressions.

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

A group losing 10v3 is not unheard of - it is in fact a predictable outcome when those 3 have fully synergized set-ups that each player understands, while the 10 rush into battle without any defensive/offensive buffs up while wearing subpar builds and not understanding the tactics the enemy is planning to hit them with. You don't have to like it, but that is currently how the game works and the people who play accordingly aren't doing anything wrong.

Before entering a battle it is never clear what the opponent exactly will use, and the idea of having possibilities to win a 10v3 fight as a smaller group does not help understanding as it is not a logical impression. In the current state the game has indeed too many possibilities, at least in Cyrodiil. How to solve this and unify players again is by simplification with still challenges in preparation.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

You turn up in your old trainers and wooden racket and a pro turns up in new custom sports shoes and state of the art racket, you're at a disadvantage because that person has invested more into winning then you.

no that's cheating I should be able to win in flip flops

Tigor wrote: »

Agree that someone with humor is still around, but she/he knows I have good arguments.

You don't though.

You are making observations about behavior and because that behavior is inexplicable, you are just chalking it up as cheating.

The reality is that some players are just better because of their experience, because of their inner confidence, because of their understanding of the game, because they work synergistically with others.

It is revealing that you just shot down the tennis analogy, because "such a match would most likely not happen voluntarily as it would not be fair." What are you talking about? It happens all the time.

I am old, play on a laptop, have poor eye sight, have slow reflexes, lack supreme confidence playing this game, use a $7 mouse, have only a vague idea of the gear released in the past 4-5 years, don;t even fully understanding how the newer skills function, run one single add-on because the game constantly disconnects me, and a dozen other negative circumstances that make it any wonder how I ever manage to kill anyone at all. Is this "fair"? Whatever unfairness exists is mostly the consequence of me being lazy or having the unrealistic expectation that just by virtue of logging into Cyrodiil, my opponent should have all of the same flaws that I have. It is completely voluntary. When I show up at the park to play basketball, I am hardly expecting that my 5'9" frame and poor dibbling skills are going to make for a "fair" match against someone who is 6'2" and has a great handle. But I play anyway because I enjoy the game and hope that there is someone on my team good enough to carry me.

Which is kind of how it works in PvP and Cyrodiil. By definition, half of the people who log in are below average. Because ZOS put so much healing and defense into the game, below average players stand zero shot at killing anyone who knows what they are doing in a "fair" fight (by which I gather you to mean in a 1v1). None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Never happening. In order for these players to accomplish the fairly simple and mundane task of killing another player, they need to be carried.

This isn't because of cheating. It's because of bad balance, poor updates, and these below average players (and devs) just not understanding how competitive PvP is legally played.

If players find Cyrodiil unfun now because of perceived cheating, they might want to pick up another MMO or PvP game now because when sub-classing comes, what the experienced and knowledgable players will be able to do is miles ahead of what's on Live right now.