Forum Moderation PSA

Dragonnord · December 23

huskandhunger wrote: »

Yes

It's why I have become the soul of brevity

Heavy Moderation, the self, the spirit, the game, panopticon

At least you say short stuff. I have decided to almost stop posting/commenting completely (this thread is an exception) until moderating changes.

ZOS_Lunar · December 23

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Has anyone ever successfully had moderation overturned after appealing and explaining?

[Edited]

Not for me.

Years ago, I said something on a ESO twitch stream referencing sometime Gina was doing. I forget exactly what I said, but it was somethine like "Nice, fits" talking about a merch shirt or sweater or jacket, I dont remember. However, I fat fingered the "F" and hit "T" instead, I quickly saw what it spelled out and changed it, I was perma banned in about 10 seconds, no appeal allowed me to communicate anymore on that stream.

It was a legitimate, honest mistake, I tried explaining that but they gave no ear to listen and to this day I can not communicate with them on twitch. Their lack of any appeal has caused me to pause countless times when I have gone to buy crowns or sub again...in fact, I have not even purchased the current chapter and my time in game gets less and less.

Nothing I said could be read as abuse, not when considering my history and time spent in those streams for years. it cost them a lot of money, and based on how much I spent yearly, it cost them thousands.

Hi Pixiepumpkin. Can you DM me your Twitch username? I'd be happy to take a look. Also, just a heads up many of us will be out for the holidays, so replies may be slower.

Dragonnord · December 23

@ZOS_Kevin

Allow me to ask how to proceed in a specific situation.

There are users in these forums that are contantly complaining (read me as I am not exaggerating, because I'm not) about everything in the game.

"I don't like nor do trials, they are difficult, ZOS don't put Endeavors in trials."
"I don't like nor do Cyrodiil, ZOS don't do this..."
"I don't like nor do ToT, ZOS don't do that..."
"I don't like nor do Infinite Archive, don't..."
"I don't like nor do hard modes, don't..."
"I don't like nor do endgame don't..."
"I don't like nor do arenas, don't..."
"I don't like nor do Battlegrounds, don't..."

"This and that is difficult, this and that is also difficult, this and that is difficult too, this and that... Nerf it, change it, remove it."

"Why Endeavors tell me to kill 2 wasps? Why not just 1? Two is way too much! Stop making us work hard ZOS".

And I think, really?

So, reading that every single week from the same persons (again not exaggerating, there are other users here that can confirm what I'm saying) and several others to the point the game is becoming - became already - a game for little kids, really gets me angry (is that the word?) as I love the game and don't like to read the same persons over and over again complaining about every single and tiny thing the game offers or Devs do.

I want to defend the game, I want to defend ZOS, so I go ahead, post something in those users threads, telling them something like "Please stop whining about everythiiiiiiiiing!" (because that's what they're doing) and boom! I get a warning, while it's much, much, much worse what they do.

How should I react in those situations? Stay mute and say nothing because saying something to defend the game can have me banned? Should I have fear to posting? Only because I say "Stop complaining"?

What they are doing is not showing their opinion, it's directly complaining about every single thing. Awful.

Then I read your comments on those every-week-complainers threads saying "Thanks for your feedback. We'll pass it to the team..."

DenverRalphy · December 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Allow me to ask how to proceed in a specific situation.

There are users in these forums that are contantly complaining (read me as I am not exaggerating, because I'm not) about everything in the game.

"I don't like nor do trials, they are difficult, ZOS don't put Endeavors in trials."
"I don't like nor do Cyrodiil, ZOS don't do this..."
"I don't like nor do ToT, ZOS don't do that..."
"I don't like nor do Infinite Archive, don't..."
"I don't like nor do hard modes, don't..."
"I don't like nor do endgame don't..."
"I don't like nor do arenas, don't..."
"I don't like nor do Battlegrounds, don't..."
<snip>

To be fair, I can think of one particular user guilty of that who recently doesn't seem to appear on the forums anymore. So I'm betting moderation finally caught up to them.

But yeah.. I can sympathize your frustration.

spartaxoxo · December 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

I want to defend the game, I want to defend ZOS, so I go ahead, post something in those users threads, telling them something like "Please stop whining about everythiiiiiiiiing!" (because that's what they're doing) and boom! I get a warning, while it's much, much, much worse what they do.

How should I react in those situations?

Snipped quote for brevity. Everyone has a different viewpoint on the game. Difficulty is subjective. While some users find this game as a whole too easy, others may find it too hard, and others may find it just right. Expressing such opinions is legitimate feedback, regardless of where they land. It's never a good idea to go after a poster for ideas expressed in unrelated threads, even if you feel those ideas are bad for the game.

If you don't care for a particular user, you can add them to the forum ignore list which will hide their comments (but not their discussions).

It's also legitimate to lay out politely why you think a particular idea is bad for the game in such threads. That is especially true if you notice dev activity on a thread because it's important to have a variety of viewpoints on any thread that the devs will use to make changes to the game.

Varana · December 23

Ruthless wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, as well as keeping things civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding.

Just had two 72 hour bans in the last two weeks, one for a satirical post on what might be in the letter - done for bashing and slander, though I never mentioned anyone by name, and it was clearly (intended to be) a gentle, humorous post; the second for commenting on the letter, in particular comparing the timing of the Gold Road reveal (early January) with the "wait until April" comment and the cancelling of the US meet and greet. This was done for Conspiracy

Clearly these two posts had touched a nerve, otherwise why go over the top and put in a ban? But why not just remove the posts? You can remove uncivil and unconstructive comments, but you have to go further and ban me too? What was achieved by a 72 hour ban? Are you trying to teach me a lesson, make me a better man? Because it feels like you're trying to push me away.

Both were comments on something that is incredibly important to us (well, me): the very future of the game.

Without wanting to sound too dramatic, for me this game has been an involvement of over ten years and thousands of pounds. I started playing in beta, I've been playing continuously to this day. In fact I started with Morrowind, played through Oblivion and Skyrim to ESO today... pretty much to the complete exclusion of other games.

It is not conspiracy to wonder what is going on. And it won't stop people wondering by giving them a ban, even if they put two and two together to make five. Were my thoughts so dangerous? Because to me the danger is in turning up at the eleventh hour, slamming on the breaks and saying "You know that cadence of chapters where we'd do a big reveal in a couple of weeks? We've binned that. We'll tell you what you can expect in April".

Transparency is the key to fighting conspiracy. Tell us and we wouldn't have to make it up for ourselves.

In any case, because of the bans I've cancelled my ESO+ subscription (don't worry, it was painless, I have 160 days left ). You've finally managed to push me away

you seam to be banned now o7

This is ridiculous.

SilverBride · December 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

I want to defend the game, I want to defend ZOS, so I go ahead, post something in those users threads, telling them something like "Please stop whining about everythiiiiiiiiing!" (because that's what they're doing) and boom! I get a warning, while it's much, much, much worse what they do.

How should I react in those situations? Stay mute and say nothing because saying something to defend the game can have me banned? Should I have fear to posting? Only because I say "Stop complaining"?

We do not need to stay mute. We absolutely have every right to counter their complaint with our own opinion of the topic. What we can't do is direct our reply at the poster and make statements about them and how they post. While we may find their complaints irritating we have to keep our replies directed at the topic.

Northwold · December 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
I think the moderators are doing a great job. Even know the moderation here is strict it helps keep the forums a civil safe environment, and the moderators are very nice and respectful too.

I fear if moderation changes or ends up being less then the forums might end up becoming disorganized and toxic like social media. Please don't change moderation.

And just like every other opinion posted on the forums, people come in on the first page and say, no, everything is perfect, don't change anything. Ever. For any reason. Like, there's literally no wiggle room on the issue, and the OP had absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation.

Does it sound like I'm bitter? It's only because I am. I've had this kind of instant response to suggestions many times.

To the moderation, I would cite a case where I've been completely blindsided by an action, but we can't talk about that.

And I'll bet this response is just a bit too direct, and falls afoul of some other rule. I'm just going to have to chance it. But therein lies part of the problem. The rules are pretty subjective, and can be bent to a moderators opinion and interpretation.

I agree 100%. I feel the same. There are people in these forums attacking and bashing ZOS ALL THE TIME, they're complaining about EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE GAME, however, you say something back, to defend the game, even to defend ZOS, or you even sound (in your writing) angry or confrontative and you are warned, suspended, banned, thread close, etc.

I also agree moderation needs a very close look and a big change regarding how forums are being moderated.

I even have an example where I was warned because I responded with "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL" to a comment, laughing at the completely wrong and misleading statement, and I was warned, just because I wrote a "LOL".

I have the screenshot in my e-mail.

Honestly that is exactly the kind of reply I would expect and want to be moderated.

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO · December 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

So, reading that every single week from the same persons (again not exaggerating, there are other users here that can confirm what I'm saying) and several others to the point the game is becoming - became already - a game for little kids, really gets me angry (is that the word?) as I love the game and don't like to read the same persons over and over again complaining about every single and tiny thing

If you don't read em, they won't put you in such a 'bind'.

That, imo, would be the fastest way to help you, with your complaint 👍👍

Syldras · December 23

I really think the overall behaviour of a user should be taken into consideration when it comes to warnings and bans. It would be sad to see someone who shares interesting ideas regularly, writes insightful lore posts and helps others by answering their questions, or in short someone who is a valuable contributor to the community, getting banned for an unfriendly reply in stressful times, a cultural misunderstanding or even just a typo.

Dragonnord · December 23

Northwold wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
I think the moderators are doing a great job. Even know the moderation here is strict it helps keep the forums a civil safe environment, and the moderators are very nice and respectful too.

I fear if moderation changes or ends up being less then the forums might end up becoming disorganized and toxic like social media. Please don't change moderation.

And just like every other opinion posted on the forums, people come in on the first page and say, no, everything is perfect, don't change anything. Ever. For any reason. Like, there's literally no wiggle room on the issue, and the OP had absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation.

Does it sound like I'm bitter? It's only because I am. I've had this kind of instant response to suggestions many times.

To the moderation, I would cite a case where I've been completely blindsided by an action, but we can't talk about that.

And I'll bet this response is just a bit too direct, and falls afoul of some other rule. I'm just going to have to chance it. But therein lies part of the problem. The rules are pretty subjective, and can be bent to a moderators opinion and interpretation.

I agree 100%. I feel the same. There are people in these forums attacking and bashing ZOS ALL THE TIME, they're complaining about EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE GAME, however, you say something back, to defend the game, even to defend ZOS, or you even sound (in your writing) angry or confrontative and you are warned, suspended, banned, thread close, etc.

I also agree moderation needs a very close look and a big change regarding how forums are being moderated.

I even have an example where I was warned because I responded with "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL" to a comment, laughing at the completely wrong and misleading statement, and I was warned, just because I wrote a "LOL".

I have the screenshot in my e-mail.

Honestly that is exactly the kind of reply I would expect and want to be moderated.

And that's why the majority of users are in fear of posting and speaking their minds in these forums.

If a "LOOOOOOOOL" gets you warned, suspended or banned then more in favor of this thread topic.

Imagine I post, using sarcasm, "Oh! Someone said a LOOOOOOL to me! I'm ofended", I'd be warned just because of mere words. Is it me? Is it really me? Or people shold grow up (no offense intended) and take things less personal or less offensive?

Otherwise it's a regime of constant censorship, suspensions and bannings.

I'm not saying people should be able to insult, attack, aggravate, really offend and so, but come on. No kids here...

I have seen Devs say "F**K YOU" in streaming, show the middle finger, etc. and so, so what? It's language.

I honestly think people show take words and responses in a les offensive way, they same way that I think moderation should be changed for good.

spartaxoxo · December 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
I think the moderators are doing a great job. Even know the moderation here is strict it helps keep the forums a civil safe environment, and the moderators are very nice and respectful too.

I fear if moderation changes or ends up being less then the forums might end up becoming disorganized and toxic like social media. Please don't change moderation.

And just like every other opinion posted on the forums, people come in on the first page and say, no, everything is perfect, don't change anything. Ever. For any reason. Like, there's literally no wiggle room on the issue, and the OP had absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation.

Does it sound like I'm bitter? It's only because I am. I've had this kind of instant response to suggestions many times.

To the moderation, I would cite a case where I've been completely blindsided by an action, but we can't talk about that.

And I'll bet this response is just a bit too direct, and falls afoul of some other rule. I'm just going to have to chance it. But therein lies part of the problem. The rules are pretty subjective, and can be bent to a moderators opinion and interpretation.

I agree 100%. I feel the same. There are people in these forums attacking and bashing ZOS ALL THE TIME, they're complaining about EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE GAME, however, you say something back, to defend the game, even to defend ZOS, or you even sound (in your writing) angry or confrontative and you are warned, suspended, banned, thread close, etc.

I also agree moderation needs a very close look and a big change regarding how forums are being moderated.

I even have an example where I was warned because I responded with "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL" to a comment, laughing at the completely wrong and misleading statement, and I was warned, just because I wrote a "LOL".

I have the screenshot in my e-mail.

Honestly that is exactly the kind of reply I would expect and want to be moderated.

And that's why the majority of users are in fear of posting and speaking their minds in these forums.

If a "LOOOOOOOOL" gets you warned, suspended or banned then more in favor of this thread topic.

Imagine I post, using sarcasm, "Oh! Someone said a LOOOOOOL to me! I'm ofended", I'd be warned just because of mere words. Is it me? Is it really me? Or people shold grow up (no offense intended) and take things less personal or less offensive?

Otherwise it's a regime of constant censorship, suspensions and bannings.

I'm not saying people should be able to insult, attack, aggravate, really offend and so, but come on. No kids here...

I have seen Devs say "F**K YOU" in streaming, show the middle finger, etc. and so, so what? It's language.

I honestly think people show take words and responses in a les offensive way, they same way that I think moderation should be changed for good.

I think there's a pretty big difference between a post that has a very slight tone to it because someone finds the poster frustrating, and a post who's sole intention is to denigrate another user.

Like let's say someone said (again this is an imaginary post)

Mannimarco: I think all challenging content should be nerfed and no more new challenging content should be made. Nobody likes it. I think ZOS should focus on the majority audience and make more new story content instead of hard stuff. This way more players can actually use it.

Razum-Dar: Oh, because we all have to like the same things as you? I don't think so. The only reason I login these days is to do trials. A lot of people in my guild feel the same. The only reason I buy chapters these days is for the chapter feature and trials. The story quests are boring because they lack challenge.

Abnur Tharn: LOLOLOL

Vanus Galerian: Mannimarco is a loser who deserves to be in Coldharbor. All he does is resurrect dead threads and whines that everything should be handed to him.

In my opinion, Razum-Dar's post should be left alone. Can you tell he's frustrated with Mannimarco? Yes. But it's also clear he's doing his best to be respectful and to focus his criticism on the idea of the thread. The first sentence could be worded to be less spicy, but nobody is perfect in their wording at all times. There needs to be room to be human.

Abnur and Vanus should be removed because they offer nothing constructive to the conversation IMO. There is no attempt to discuss the topic of thread. It is just mockery. Vanus should be given a formal warning or a temp bans because it's a personal attack. Abnur's post should be deleted and he should be informed why, but no account action is necessary as it's fairly mild.

Would I agree that Mannimarco has a bad and selfish take? Absolutely. But, he's entitled to his opinion. Ideas should be criticized, not users. Moderation should not be relaxed so much that flaming (Vanus) and unconstructive trolling (Abnur) are allowed. Severity should also be considered. IMO both Abnur and Vanus posts should be deleted. But, they are different levels of severity and the actions taken should reflect that.

Dragonnord · December 23

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
I think the moderators are doing a great job. Even know the moderation here is strict it helps keep the forums a civil safe environment, and the moderators are very nice and respectful too.

I fear if moderation changes or ends up being less then the forums might end up becoming disorganized and toxic like social media. Please don't change moderation.

And just like every other opinion posted on the forums, people come in on the first page and say, no, everything is perfect, don't change anything. Ever. For any reason. Like, there's literally no wiggle room on the issue, and the OP had absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation.

Does it sound like I'm bitter? It's only because I am. I've had this kind of instant response to suggestions many times.

To the moderation, I would cite a case where I've been completely blindsided by an action, but we can't talk about that.

And I'll bet this response is just a bit too direct, and falls afoul of some other rule. I'm just going to have to chance it. But therein lies part of the problem. The rules are pretty subjective, and can be bent to a moderators opinion and interpretation.

I agree 100%. I feel the same. There are people in these forums attacking and bashing ZOS ALL THE TIME, they're complaining about EVERY SINGLE THING IN THE GAME, however, you say something back, to defend the game, even to defend ZOS, or you even sound (in your writing) angry or confrontative and you are warned, suspended, banned, thread close, etc.

I also agree moderation needs a very close look and a big change regarding how forums are being moderated.

I even have an example where I was warned because I responded with "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL" to a comment, laughing at the completely wrong and misleading statement, and I was warned, just because I wrote a "LOL".

I have the screenshot in my e-mail.

Honestly that is exactly the kind of reply I would expect and want to be moderated.

And that's why the majority of users are in fear of posting and speaking their minds in these forums.

If a "LOOOOOOOOL" gets you warned, suspended or banned then more in favor of this thread topic.

Imagine I post, using sarcasm, "Oh! Someone said a LOOOOOOL to me! I'm ofended", I'd be warned just because of mere words. Is it me? Is it really me? Or people shold grow up (no offense intended) and take things less personal or less offensive?

Otherwise it's a regime of constant censorship, suspensions and bannings.

I'm not saying people should be able to insult, attack, aggravate, really offend and so, but come on. No kids here...

I have seen Devs say "F**K YOU" in streaming, show the middle finger, etc. and so, so what? It's language.

I honestly think people show take words and responses in a les offensive way, they same way that I think moderation should be changed for good.

I think there's a pretty big difference between a post that has a very slight tone to it because someone finds the poster frustrating, and a post who's sole intention is to denigrate another user.

Like let's say someone said (again this is an imaginary post)

Mannimarco: I think all challenging content should be nerfed and no more new challenging content should be made. Nobody likes it. I think ZOS should focus on the majority audience and make more new story content instead of hard stuff. This way more players can actually use it.

Razum-Dar: Oh, because we all have to like the same things as you? I don't think so. The only reason I login these days is to do trials. A lot of people in my guild feel the same. The only reason I buy chapters these days is for the chapter feature and trials. The story quests are boring because they lack challenge.

Abnur Tharn: LOLOLOL

Vanus Galerian: Mannimarco is a loser who deserves to be in Coldharbor. All he does is resurrect dead threads and whines that everything should be handed to him.

In my opinion, Razum-Dar's post should be left alone. Can you tell he's frustrated with Mannimarco? Yes. But it's also clear he's doing his best to be respectful and to focus his criticism on the idea of the thread. The first sentence could be worded to be less spicy, but nobody is perfect in their wording at all times. There needs to be room to be human.

Abnur and Vanus should be removed because they offer nothing constructive to the conversation IMO. There is no attempt to discuss the topic of thread. It is just mockery. Vanus should be given a formal warning or a temp bans because it's a personal attack. Abnur's post should be deleted and he should be informed why, but no account action is necessary as it's fairly mild.

Would I agree that Mannimarco has a bad and selfish take? Absolutely. But, he's entitled to his opinion. Ideas should be criticized, not users. Moderation should not be relaxed so much that flaming (Vanus) and unconstructive trolling (Abnur) are allowed. Severity should also be considered. IMO both Abnur and Vanus posts should be deleted. But, they are different levels of severity and the actions taken should reflect that.

I agree with you, completely. That's why, to that post/thread, I added my own opinion after the Abnur Tharn "LOLOLOL ". However, the CS agent totally disregarded my opinion and only took the "LOLOLOL" for the e-mail.

Hence, the only presence of the "LOLOLOL" was enough to get a warning.

And that "LOLOLOL" is not an offence, is not like I'm pointing at the user in an aggresive, degrading, insulting, shaming, etc., way, no, not at all, it's just a "LOLOLOL" that represents a state of disagreement in form of laughing out loud.

Imagine laughing out loud irl when you disagree with someone and a cop that was passing by says "Hey! Watch out dude! Next time you get the handcuffs and directly to jail. Last warning!"

Anyways...