Is the vamp nerf too much?

Kypho · May 2014

too much? lol. it was a start.

Xelphos · May 2014

Kypho wrote: »

too much? lol. it was a start.

Do you ahve proof to back that up? Have you played a Vampire since the patch? Sure Bat Swarm can still be spammed to some degree, but it does not stack anymore, meaning zergs can out DPS it. It also only hits 6 targets at a time, so it doesn't matter if you have 10 or 50 people attacking the vampire, Bat Swarm will only hit 6 people. This nerf is fine, if they nerf it anymore it will become another WW, pissing off everyone who was not abusing vampire to begin with. I do think WW and Vampire need tweaking, small changes here and there just to balance things out, but nothing too major (Well WW needs some major changes as it is a big waste of time.).

Milky · May 2014

After fighting many vampires for hours last night. I feel that this really did help with balancing. Is it going to be perfect? Are things still bugged out that will help/hurt vampires? Yes.

But at least its a much better playing field now. During my 6 hours of AvA last night I fought many many vampires. The ones who were accustomed to playing sloppy, jumping into large groups and pressing batswarm, got countered quickly and killed. The skilled players, who knew the opportune moment to use batswarm, and positioned correctly, were still successful in killing players, including myself.

This is what I like to see.

AshTal · May 2014

I don't get it Vamp is an extra skill line, they still have every other skill the rest of us have. Vamps are still very powerful and people still keep using bat swarm in PvP because its still an AOE that heals you and is very cheap.
Only difference now is that when a Vamp jumped 8 of us so 1 vs 8 he tried to spam bat swarm and he didn't win. I can only imagine his confused face as he just hit R over and over and we could actually out heal him and out damage his healing.

Chryos · May 2014

Bah, I'm not a number counter, I play a vampyre because I enjoy it. I'll work around whatever price comes with being one. Seems like wearing resist gear should help make up for the fire damage and I'll just have to change tactics and play smarter. Now I am only rank 2 so I wasnt involved in all the vamp pvp shennanigins.

Starshadw · May 2014

Now having experienced Cyrodiil post-changes, I'd say the ultimate reduction still needs looking at - an Ultimate skill should not be spammable in PvP. In PvE? Sure, have at it. But not in PvP.

savak · May 2014

Haha vamp tears are tasty

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

They completely broke Elusive Mist by the way - it doesn't give any speed boost at all, 0% instead of the 30% it should.

Also people can still spam (not stack - which is good) Bat Swarm. Yet Drain and Mist Form got a HUGE amount of unnecessary nerf.

The problem was always ultimate cost reduction, not vampire cost reduction.

The problem still exists, and the nerf affected PvE abilities more than the abuser's Bat Swarm, which they can still spam for barely any cost.

Starshadw · May 2014

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

They completely broke Elusive Mist by the way - it doesn't give any speed boost at all, 0% instead of the 30% it should.

Are you sure? Because I'm still seeing vampires zipping across the battlefield in Mist Form, and they are pretty much still uncatchable when they do it.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

Starshadw wrote: »

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

They completely broke Elusive Mist by the way - it doesn't give any speed boost at all, 0% instead of the 30% it should.

Are you sure? Because I'm still seeing vampires zipping across the battlefield in Mist Form, and they are pretty much still uncatchable when they do it.

100% sure. Test it yourself, I tested it a bunch last night. No speed boost at all, it's regular run speed when it's on.

They broke it.

The people zipping around were probably stacking other speed boosts (e.g., The Steed stone + Orc + speed gear + Rapid Maneuvers, for instance).

Regardless, Elusive Mist is 100% broken, confirmed by multiple people in many tests. It now gives no speed bonus.

sagitter · May 2014

I m a vamp ,and I think this is a step in the right direction, now at stage 3 myst cost is the same as invisibility of nb so with 1500 magicka u can use it 3/4 times, seems fair,before u could use bats ulti and spam myst form dealing dmg and being immune was just sick. Don t understand ppl that claims for escape tools against zergs when all classes got a superb ability called stealth to avoid it and not only some classes like most of mmorpg . If u get spotted by zerg u deserve to die ,to be realistic. Escape tools should be work only with an high cost of resources or penalties .

Tandara · May 2014

Starshadw wrote: »

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

They completely broke Elusive Mist by the way - it doesn't give any speed boost at all, 0% instead of the 30% it should.

Are you sure? Because I'm still seeing vampires zipping across the battlefield in Mist Form, and they are pretty much still uncatchable when they do it.

You can still exploit rapid maneuver and morphs to gain speed even while beeing hit if timed right. So that's maybe the reason why you still see them on high speed in mist.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO · May 2014

Tandara wrote: »

Why should anyone want a 20% speed nerf on mist? Even now it's a cake to catch a running vamp. Just chainroot her/him. I don't get it. Everytime a Vamp tries to run from me atm I can catch up. With the 20% speed nerf everyone will just sprint after you and stun you after mist runs out. So there is just no way to use it at all.

Edit: And nah the patch is hitting this week. (first maintaince) and it's not 1.1

Mist form was never intended or meant to give you super speed, as your already getting a hefty mitigation to ALL damage while in mist form. Perhaps a lot of players got use to all the extra perks Vamps were getting?

In the end, NO class including WW or Vamp, was ever intended to be an "alpha" class which requires everyone else to pretty much do the same thing if they want to be competitive.

Why do you think there was a huge amount of Vamps so quickly? Because of how OP they were with the current skills as they were. They needed to be brought into more balance that was fair for all the classes, and frankly, having the ability to spam batswarm to keep it going is pretty heft "buff" in my book.

The change so that Vamps could no longer "stack" bat swarm was definitely needed. Mist form now at 30% is now on par with Sorcs lightning form that increases speed by 30%. I don't see an issue here.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO · May 2014

Vampire or WW skills / abilities were never meant to be higher then regular skill lines of all the other classes. There is no "alpha" class in this game (with exception to the Emperor). This means they needed to review and bring Vampire skills in balance with the other classes, plain and simple.

You get all sorts of cool abilities as a Vampire, I see no reason why anyone of them should complain. Those that do were use to the over powered use of the skills and now have a problem playing correctly because their "god mode" was removed.

I for one am glad they brought Vamps into more balance and are monitoring how they are being used. Why do you think all the top end players on the big campaigns are at 4m-5m+? They are all vampires and took full advantage of the stacking bat swarm + the crazy mist form speed, while getting 70% damage mitigation the whole time.

Dragon Knights are in line next in getting "fixed" correctly, as no ultimate should be able to hit unlimited number of players ever. It's too easy to gain 200-300 AP in under 10 seconds when your in the heat of battle, so I will be glad once more things are "balanced" out correctly.

Maybe then we can see an early reset of all campaigns then watch to see how some skills are being used again.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · May 2014

So how are sorc vamps turning invisible without drinking potions while using batswarm? Actually I seen a dk vampire doing it to, so is this yet another vampire exploit? It doesn't matter if we can finally out dps the swarm if we cant hit them because they keep turning invisible. I knows its not a potion either because it lasts way longer then potions do and invisibility breaks on damage.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · May 2014

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

So how are sorc vamps turning invisible without drinking potions while using batswarm? Actually I seen a dk vampire doing it to, so is this yet another vampire exploit? It doesn't matter if we can finally out dps the swarm if we cant hit them because they keep turning invisible. I knows its not a potion either because it lasts way longer then potions do and invisibility breaks on damage.

do they crouch when they disappear, is it nightime. thats the dark stalker perk, makes our transition into stealth quicker at nightime. im not 100% sure how combat mode works in pvp, but i have seen people i fight crouch and stealth in the middle of a fight.

shimmyatwa_ESO · May 2014

It's one of the morphs for bat swarm. You can either have it drain health or make you invisible while it's active

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · May 2014

Ah so its like invulnerability instead of healing? Can you hit them with aoe at least?

Kypho · May 2014

This is all BS. there was no nerf. it was not working as intended. fix is not a nerf. was stupidly overpowered. Removing an exploit is hardly a nerf. If they lower Swarm damage, it will be a nerf. Lowering bash damage is not nerf, its fix also. Fixing something broken/not working as intended, is fix. Ofc it was fair play and you can say "all can be vampire" ... most ppl was because it was broken. But thats not TESO, thats lolvampnubs vs lolvampnubs online. You dont really want to solo 3+ ppl do you? you arent more hero than other ppl with your skills. If you think all ppl should be Vamp or WW (or bashspam monster)to overcome others in pvp, then you need to visit a doctor (you get asskicked in RL that you want to be a hero?). Try to be emperor if you want to be a badass hero in pvp. can you do that without exploiting? i guess not. you QQ about fix.

shimmyatwa_ESO · May 2014

Yeah they don't get the heals, but you should still be able to aoe them.

Zershar_Vemod · May 2014

Kypho wrote: »

This is all BS. there was no nerf. it was not working as intended. fix is not a nerf. was stupidly overpowered. Removing an exploit is hardly a nerf. If they lower Swarm damage, it will be a nerf. Lowering bash damage is not nerf, its fix also. Fixing something broken/not working as intended, is fix. Ofc it was fair play and you can say "all can be vampire" ... most ppl was because it was broken. But thats not TESO, thats lolvampnubs vs lolvampnubs online. You dont really want to solo 3+ ppl do you? you arent more hero than other ppl with your skills. If you think all ppl should be Vamp or WW (or bashspam monster)to overcome others in pvp, then you need to visit a doctor (you get asskicked in RL that you want to be a hero?). Try to be emperor if you want to be a badass hero in pvp. can you do that without exploiting? i guess not. you QQ about fix.

Someone is mad.

The issue was DK / Sorc, not vamp - whose skill line passives are still broken, even after the nerf.

woodlandwoodsb14_ESO · May 2014

Tandara wrote: »

And yeah I am vampire because I want to sit at stage 1. Let me guess after the next patch we twinkle in the sun and look like a model?

Haha!! I was not expecting the "model" part. Thanks for the laugh.

AltusVenifus · May 2014

I thought PVP was much better without the constant bat swarm... now just buff some nightblade and temp skills and it should be fairer.

dsalter · May 2014

the nerfed the wrong part of vampire. bats still rule. just alittle more effort to spam. ulti costs are the issue not the damn vampire skills. put a cap on it.
a deminishing return on repeated crowd control (seriously being bash locked or stun locked is no fun for anyone)
a 3 second CD on bolt escape OR a triple magicka cost so it cant be spammed lightly
reduce the change for talon synergy to pop up
probably afew obvious ones i'v left out but meh.

i'v beta tested wow, anarchy online, conan, i'v played a ton of MMO's early and late. i know when somethings not balanced. the nerf on bats was good but they over shot it by impacting how the cost reductions for vamp skills work. it only needed an ulti cap not a skill cost increase. tho slowing mist was a good idea. saddly they broke it

Tintinabula · May 2014

Im constantly running out of stamina and falling behind in stealth mode in pvp behind my BF. I wanted vamp for the increased stealth speed and the increased mag stam regen..
I knew nothing of stacking batswarm but thought the batswarm effect might be cool looking..which it is..but that's all.. cool looking.
I then saw mist form and the description clearly states "invulnerable to all CCs"..I snagged it and ran into the middle of the first group in mist form and was taloned immediately. Since then ive been chained and taloned and stunned while in mist form..wtf?
THEN ...my super stealthy stamina infused run like I gotta deuce hanging crouch mode turns off after EVERY death....so in order to get it back i must relog.

No...I chose vamp and agreed to be super vulnerable to fire and silver bolts and got absolutely NOTHING back for it (with the exception of a f****** up looking face).
If catching vamp wasnt so darned difficult ,(thats bugged too) I would seriously get healed of it and forget I ever tried the skill line out. Eventually I will if they don't fix the da****** skill line.

Its jaw dropping ridiculous that ZOS can go in and mess with/nerf skills when they cant even fix shiat that's been broken bad for quite sometime in the vamp skill line.

Tankqull · May 2014

dsalter wrote: »

the nerfed the wrong part of vampire. bats still rule. just alittle more effort to spam. ulti costs are the issue not the damn vampire skills. put a cap on it.

thats not needed either - the fix is really simple exclude ultimate abilitys from genrating ultimate points.
-

Tintinabula wrote: »

No...I chose vamp and agreed to be super vulnerable to fire and silver bolts and got absolutely NOTHING back for it (with the exception of a f****** up looking face).
If catching vamp wasnt so darned difficult ,(thats bugged too) I would seriously get healed of it and forget I ever tried the skill line out. Eventually I will if they don't fix the da****** skill line.

lvl a DK to lvl ~25(WE of grinding - atleast at that lvl i was able to finish the quest with mine) bite your bf make him bite your twink and get rid of it on your mains (do not forget to reset your skill before).