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Is the vamp nerf too much?
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭If the patch means that players who went vampire out of personal desire to play a vampire with no regards for the mechanics now feel too gimped to stay vampires then there might be some issue.
I don't see any legitimate reason why this second scenario would be true, the nerf is not that severe.
That's exactly what it means. Why?
Because the nerf MOSTLY affects the main two actives, not Bat Swarm. You will still be able to get Bat Swarm to insanely low ultimate cost, still be able to get super fast ultimate gain. And thus still spam it.
Yet all the vampire players who were NOT ABUSING BAT SWARM now have their abilities' cost increased 3x (effectively). They were already expensive to use.
Now there are better, cheaper alternatives in general.
So what's the point of being a vampire if it's in your interest to NOT USE either ability, ever?
So you get -75% health regen reduction, +50% fire damage, and no actual benefit at all if you don't use the two active skills, for which there are better, cheaper alternatives after this nerf.
Yet those people abusing bat swarm will still be able to do it. And since there are so many trolls that just want to see no vampires ever, and never even bother to read the posts we're making, they'll probably do the same type of inadequate nerf to bat swarm, while nerfing the other abilities really hard again, when they weren't actually a problem.
For the record, I always play vampires in the Elder Scrolls game. That's why I did it here. I don't even USE bat swarm - never have.
But I do use the other two abilities, mostly in PvE, and this nerf sucks for NORMAL non-Bat-Swarm-abuser players.
Hell, it practically encourages any vampire that WASN'T abusing bat swarm to start doing so now, because that's the only skill that isn't completely screwed up by this nerf.
Edited by ChairGraveyard on 5 May 2014 18:012 -
zaha✭Yes they need to fix the bat swarm bug. but ESO has taken its first step to becoming just like every other mmo. They screwed with the other vamp skills in a rush job to fix a real problem just to shut people up instead of taking there time to come up with a real fix. Great job guys. Your one step closer to being WOW.2
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Syndy✭✭✭joshisanonymous wrote: »f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »I never zerg, and have many 1v1/2/3 fights that I love... I am not a vamp nor a sorc either.
I know eventually a group will come and kill me, that's fine, that is expected.. If you don't expect it, you are probably playing the wrong pvp game...
IMO there should be NO "get out of jail FREE card" in the game. For sorcs or otherwise, if you make a mistake and try to gank someone and then 5 enemies cap the ridge right in front of you, you should die . Not put on your best Road Runner impression and PEACE OUT...
This whole idea that it's impossible to solo without getting run over by a zerg is a bit strange to me, too. Besides what you're saying, soloing is as much about knowing when and where to engage as it is about playing a class that has better (better, not guaranteed) chances of getting away from a zerg. The map is massive and there are so many valleys and obstacles that it feels pretty easy to find fights where a zerg might even run right by you without ever noticing. Hell, I'd wager that most people don't even know how to pan behind them while running forward because of the mechanics, making it even easier to get around undetected.
I still wouldn't play a DK or Templar when exclusively soloing, but there's no reason to believe that they're incapable of doing this. People used to successfully solo in DAoC with tanks; there were no mounts or anything for speed, no escape tools, not even sneaking was available, and the (NF) map was not set up as well for this at all.
I never said it was impossible, but highly unlikely, unless you camp somewhere and just wait until the lone straggler comes along every 5 mins... Instead of ganking on the main travel paths between keeps under siege. It is about knowing when and where, and even who to engage.
Unless you are fighting in a less traveled valley, people will see you fighting, or even hear you. I know I see people at max distance, a good while before a faction emblem pops up above their head. The trees and other terrain don't really block fighting that much, especially as mobile has you have to be in fights, not to mention spell lighting effects. You have to find a valley and bait someone in there if you are planning for a longer fight.
I do really well soloing with a Templar using Dawn of Wrath skills. My pan button is mouse button 5. And for those of you who don't know what the "free look" default hot key is, it is pressing the mousewheel down.
Syndy - VR14 Breton Templar
Sacrilege
Daggerfall Covenant
Warhammer
Syndia - 100 Zealot, Syndai - 99 Black Guard, Cyndrana - 84 Sorceress0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »...
Yet all the vampire players who were NOT ABUSING BAT SWARM now have their abilities' cost increased 3x (effectively). They were already expensive to use.
Now there are better, cheaper alternatives in general.
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Could you provide some examples of the better, cheaper alternatives?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »...
Yet all the vampire players who were NOT ABUSING BAT SWARM now have their abilities' cost increased 3x (effectively). They were already expensive to use.
Now there are better, cheaper alternatives in general.
...
Could you provide some examples of the better, cheaper alternatives?
Mist Form - Boundless Storm and Bolt Escape are both *much* better, and Boundless Storm is cheaper.
Drain - Mage's Guild Entropy is going to be buffed a LOT in the 1.1 patch, and costs far less.
Also, FYI Mist Form is bugged and players can still CC you and even knock you out of Mist Form by abusing the tab target functionality.
Poison Mist doesn't actually do damage.
None of the vampire passives actually work unless you feed/log in/out constantly.
The other thing is that this 1.07 doesn't fix ultimate spamming at all. The cost reductions can still go insanely low, and ultimate gain is really fast if built for it.
That means you'll still see bat swarm abusers.
I just want to be LEFT ALONE so I can PvE in peace with my vampire character. These nerfs, on top of the passive bugs etc. make it damn near impossible.
Edited by ChairGraveyard on 5 May 2014 18:321 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »...
Mist Form - Boundless Storm and Bolt Escape are both *much* better, and Boundless Storm is cheaper.
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Neither of these are available to 3/4 of the classes though.ChairGraveyard wrote: »...
Drain - Mage's Guild Entropy is going to be buffed a LOT in the 1.1 patch, and costs far less.
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This one on the other hand has my interest piqued. Could you link me the patch notes or quote the part about Entropy?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Doesn't change anything to the fact they leave vamp with utherly crippling weakness and none of the advantage is that zenimax idea of a joke?One bow to darken the sun
One bow to unite the clans
One bow to conquer the world and in darkness drown it...
- Prophecy of the tyranny of the sun1 -
RivenEsq✭✭✭✭I'm just sitting here laughing at everyone who thought abusing Mist Form and Batswarm made them good at PvP.
Mist Form was broken. Very broken. It was one of the most absurd things about vampires. They had unparalleled escape ability. More than a NB, more than a Sorc.
NB, to be fair, needs bug fixes on their abilities and that is why they are underpowered.
I'd like to see Sorc balancing on Bolt Escape so that the stun works where you end your blink (make an incentive to use it offensively) and if you hit a person, you get magicka back. As compensation for this, the initial cost should be increased. I think that would put the skill in a better place and really define its role without getting rid of its escape ability entirely. But, even in saying that, Bolt Escape STILL LEAVES YOU VULNERABLE at either end. You can be rooted, cc'd, and nuked to hell.
I have no problems with using Bolt Escape to, wait for it, ESCAPE, until the skill is balanced that there is some utility other than purely positioning. If you wanted to make me mitigate 75% of damage and become untargetable, then sure, go right ahead and make it more expensive.
Mist Form, on the other hand, was the single largest movement speed steroid in the game. It has 75% damage mitigation. And, oh yeah, it made you UNTARGETABLE. Forget your nonsensical argument of "now I can't escape from 75 people", that just tells me that you were out of position and yes, you do deserve to die. "Get out of jail free cards" should not exist in PvP. Your use of Vampire, OP, was clearly a crutch that you leaned on heavily.
Good PvP players will not be hurt by these changes at all, they'll just be on a more level playing field and move on. Bad PvP players, as you've clearly defined yourself through your statements, will probably quit the game. Good riddance if you wanted to rely on an "I win" button to legitimize yourself in a video game.
Mist Form and Bat Swarm both still have their roles and uses. Since you can no longer use Bat Swarms simultaneously, the ability will actually be relatively balanced. If you thought that 5x Bat Swarms going simultaneously was intended so that you could solo tank 30+ people, then you are clearly deranged. The ability is far from useless and can still be "spammed" since the ultimate will still have very low cost, meaning you could have 100% up time on your Bat Swarm now, you just won't be able to sit there and wipe 40 people with it while taking no damage yourself, sorry if you thought that was "balanced".
Mist Form still makes your untargetable for the duration, still has 75% damage mitigation, and now just makes you run a bit slower while costing a bit more. It is still in line with the largest movement speed steroid in the game, and it is still fairly spammable. It is now more of a tactical choice. It is still great at maneuvering through a fight, getting through a choke, and escaping in some situations, but the days of a person sticking to you and being unable to target you or hit you with any spells for 2+ minutes while you run away are OVER.
This nerf was a long time coming. A big **** you to the people who exploited this for weeks and laughed at the people they killed. Thank God that we are no longer forced to be a vampire if we wanted to be the most capable player in PvP.
***I have never been a Vampire or WW, nor do I want to be. I also flat out refuse to exploit things that are very broken mechanics.Edited by RivenEsq on 5 May 2014 18:563 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭LOL at people that think Mist Form was OP at all.
Considering that it's *literally broken* and does not do what the effects state (i.e., make you immune to cc), that is some full on ridiculousness.
Players can also interrupt you out of it completely, again by abusing the tab targeting.
Escape skill used to escape occasionally, BOOO nerf it! /s1 -
RivenEsq✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »LOL at people that think Mist Form was OP at all.
Considering that it's *literally broken* and does not do what the effects state (i.e., make you immune to cc), that is some full on ridiculousness.
Players can also interrupt you out of it completely, again by abusing the tab targeting.
Escape skill used to escape occasionally, BOOO nerf it! /s
No other way to say this.
You. Are. Wrong.
Escape skill used to escape indefinitely. Regardless of composition, size of force, skills used, the fact that you have to chase a Vampire across 1/4th of the map to catch them and kill them if you were that determined is ridiculous. Being able to infinitely spam Mist Form is ridiculous. An optional and let me stress that OPTIONAL, as in not forced, had access to the largest movement speed steroid in the game by a long shot (20%). Yeah, that's "balanced".
I think it is in a good spot now. Suck it up and deal with the fact that if you hard engaged in a fight that you don't necessarily make it out unless you killed everyone, but it still gives you a chance.Edited by RivenEsq on 5 May 2014 19:171 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They have now made vampires the most easily kill-able targets ever, I hope they fix it.
They kind of are supposed to be. That's the price for the power.
God mode is bad, m'kay?"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
RivenEsq✭✭✭✭They have now made vampires the most easily kill-able targets ever, I hope they fix it.
Explain to me how the only weakness of the class being fire makes them "easily killable" when they have one of the best sustain ultimates in the game in Bat Swarm and Mist Form, which is still the best damage mitigation skill and on par as the best movement speed steroid in the game.
What you should have said: They have now made Bad PvP players who rolled Vampire to be OP the most easily kill-able targets ever2 -
rdfarley89✭✭✭Thank gosh no one will be playing vamp after the nerf, there are too many damned vampires in this game!!2 -
7788b14_ESO✭✭✭It's really nice to see them actually fixing skills before they nerf them and have realized that skills used in pve shouldn't be nerfed because of what's going on in pvp...oh what a minute.1 -
bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭is the vamp nerf to much
yes
i could honestly accept the nerf if they also nerfed the fire weakness along with it, the highest being 50 percent fire weakness at stage 4. as it is, its to much risk and to little perk. vampirism is a dark power, meant to give great power with great weakness.
the only problem with the skill line before was bats power being spammed, which would have been easily fixed by simply adding a cooldown, or removing it from the cost reduction equation.
plus, the skill line still bugs the $%^# out when you die, so thats still a thing.0 -
AshTal✭✭✭✭The fix will do nothing to most of the exploiters. Its too little too late. However if this stops people playing Vamps in PvP I am all for it they have ruined PvP for me.
I just hope the mist form no healing will now include healing from Bat swarm.
BTW I play on European Server we have not see a fix yet has it improved things at all or is it still uber Vamps in uber gear/pvp rank still killing entire raids?1 -
Milky✭✭✭The tears, they're so yummy!
You can't exploit broken mechanics for weeks on end and not expect to get slapped in the face.
Welcome to the level playing field, learn how to use your skills at the proper time like every other player.
I'll still be hard focusing every vampire I see. You can thank the exploiters for that, I have built up a long-lasting hatred for the pale-skins.1 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »The nerf, as many of my vampire kin and others have said doesn't actually fix the problem at all. Instead it nerfs mist and drain. DKs/Sorcs can still spam bat swarm after this patch.
THIS.
Vampire skill itself was NEVER the problem. It was DK & Sorc having ult reductions which resulted in virtually no costs.
Edited by Zershar_Vemod on 6 May 2014 02:59House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire3 -
Argurios✭✭People whining about vamp 'nerf' i love it.
Vampires aren't supposed to be the basis of people's builds, or a nice 'iwin' button for all the cheesemongers out there. Its not that bad it just brings the skill line more in line with other skill lines, and all the vampire lovers can't handle it. Still some good stuff there, just not OP like you are all used to. Get over it.
Learn to play with some skill now instead of *stealth attack* + *mist form away*. Or the cheesiest of all, *oh no i'm getting ***, ill just spam bat swarm and end up in the top 10 of the leaderboards without being able to actually fight because of my OP skill line* It got to the point where i stopped pvping, because it was just pointless.
Cant believe the OP is whining that he cant 'escape the zerg' anymore. Lol, entitled much? You get caught in the open with a zerg coming, you are supposed to die. Not escape while 10 people try to wear you down in your OP mist form, through the half second chance they get everytime you reappear.
The bottom line is that vampires have become a joke in ESO, nearly every VR player i see is a vampire. Just blows away any semblance of immersion, im pretty sure the developers didn't intend for every other player to become a vampire. I mean for crying out loud i went and got bitten with my brand new L3 nightblade still in his coldharbour rags! It should be harder to get, and definitely not flogged like a 2nd hand car. At least now if they start nerfing it, less people will use it apart from the most dedicated who will learn how to make it work despite disadvantages. As opposed to all the amoebas we have running vampires now, that mostly do it because it is the most OP thing in pvp at the moment.
Or at least it was. All they need to do now is buff werewolf. Oh and I also hope every boss in craglorn does fire damage now too!" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the test first, the lesson after... "
Argurios Ultor - Imperial Templar
Caradoc Coldblade - Redguard Nightblade
- Daggerfall Covenant0 -
the majority of you guys don't understand that at the end of the day being a vampire is not supposed to make you a more powerfull player than non-vamps. this is an mmo, completing one easy quest mustn't give you that incredible advantage which you truly had over others.
all i'm reading is "now i ain't be able to make 100ap/hour any more. f*** zenimax!".0 -
Mastemar✭The thing no one seems to get is... it was not Swarm that was bugged or broken...
It was the stages passive, and it still is bugged, people exploited that, the bug is at stage 4 if you feed, than wait to go back to stage 4 you would get both stage 3's and 4's reduction.
I have reported on this multiple times it is stupid they would rather nerf than actually fix the passive, and i checked, the bug is still there. Vampire would have been balanced if it was not for that one bug, other than mistform i do agree that needed a little nerf, and that poison mist still needs to be fixed.
I am a NB, i sort of rely on my vamp skills at Veteran levels because swallow soul does not heal that greatly, blood craze does not either, the two together are meh at best, and not the greatest survival tactic for solo play against elites/bosses or groups of mobs that chain stuns, but with my vamp abilities i toss out drain when i really need it, and to take down groups of mobs i used bat swarm, especially for those harvester mobs, since i do not really have any AoEs that i can spam to take her and the orbs down other than whirlwind from dual wield, which after a few hits i am drained on stamina, and drain does not work on all of them.
I did not look at vamp as a crutch, nor did i treat it as such, i looked at it as something that completed my class/build for what i wanted, a solo play build that i could enjoy, cause let's be honest here, the community here is filled with pricks, but with all the bugs with the passives resetting for whatever reason, took the fun out of it, and now with the nerf to add onto it, with the bugs still there, it is a bit ridiculous. Why punish honest players for the exploits of others, instead of fixing what was actually wrong?
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So after playing around in eso yesterday, this is my results for bat swarm spam.
Power stone + dragon guard set=88 ult cost. I'm pretty sure I can get it lower if I get some other cost reduction sets AND the new content will feature more cost reduction sets to.
http://puu.sh/8AV2EEdited by alexion891ub17_ESO on 6 May 2014 13:470 -
Niffo✭✭✭Yes it was too much, since it completely ignored the actual issues, it felt like the nerf was thought up by putting a bunch of the complaints on a dart board and just doing whatever was hit.0
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Zargorius✭✭✭✭alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »So after playing around in eso yesterday, this is my results for bat swarm spam.
Power stone + dragon guard set=88 ult cost. I'm pretty sure I can get it lower if I get some other cost reduction sets AND the new content will feature more cost reduction sets to.
http://puu.sh/8AV2E
That's abit better than 4 or 34, innit?Honor is a dead man's code.0 -
Mjoel✭✭I played 3 hours PvP since the patch got life now... and didnt see one Batspammer... finally i can play pvp without that crap and guys im a vamp too and i have to tell you vamp is not useless now i never used mist or batexploit if you now cry you maybe used exploits...
I hope all of you PvP exploit users get a ban for lifetime2 -
Niffo✭✭✭alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »So after playing around in eso yesterday, this is my results for bat swarm spam.
Power stone + dragon guard set=88 ult cost. I'm pretty sure I can get it lower if I get some other cost reduction sets AND the new content will feature more cost reduction sets to.
http://puu.sh/8AV2E
That's abit better than 4 or 34, innit?
Only a bit, but the issue is still not addressed with ultimate cost reduction being uncapped.1 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭The bat swarm was fixed. You can no longer use the ultimate, then use it again, and still be getting hit from the previous bat swarm he casted. This means that he has to wait for the duration to end or he can keep using and it will refresh everytime which is no different than using radial sweep ultimate for templar that cost 75.
So yes it is fixed. We arent trying to make bat swarm suck here, just fix the stacking of damage it did...right? You will still encounter bat swarmers who spam minus the large stacking damage and well....thats what vampires do.
The mist form was too advantageous at 50%+ movement speed and 75% mitigation and problems being visible/targeted. It is the best ability in the game for not dying, nothing comes close not even bolt escape, and....it is available only if you are a vampire monster. It is also still pre and post nerf because once you get to veteran, you have a *** load of options to recover/max your abilities.
The vampire is still tough and the bat swarm is still powerful, but balanced. So, get yourself out there and play the game before making naysaying posts less than 24 hours after the patch. You are not the truth behind play testing.Edited by Thechemicals on 6 May 2014 14:25Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Larira✭✭✭✭In many MMOs it looks like that the devs do not know their own game. Unfortunately Teso is not an exception.
This nerf will not fix the main problem. And it is stackable additive ability cost reduction across different skill lines. I guess this nerf will not make the vampire useless. But it will be harder to play a vampire because you will run faster out of ressources.
Greetings0
