ZOS, Massive Spike in Ping/LAG in Recent Days - What Gives?

Alinhbo_Tyaka · November 22

It might not be the addon itself causing the problem for those players saying they saw an improvement after completely removing them. Removing the addons will change the memory allocation of the client and probably the server too. From a high level removal could also change the code path and length on both sides. In this case the resulting improvement is a coincidence that obscures a programming problem within the client code, communications code, the server code or a combination of the three.

KaironBlackbard · November 22

LadyGP wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

I -really- respect Kevin for what he does and I understand he's just the messenger and probably has a very limited amount of topics he is allowed to discuss with us, but given ZOS's overall lack of communication on this subject from everyone regarding this issue, the frustration comes from the fact we feel like we aren't being listened to. We just had @ZOS_JessicaFolsom pop into the Battlegrounds livestream thread after less than a day (she deserves praise, and the communication there was good) and nobody other than Kevin has said anything in this thread after nearly 7 months and 80+ pages.

ZOS's team may have not found the issue and the technicians may not even think there is one because of that, the problem with this is that it does not reflect our experiences. I came out of a vHOF some hours ago where I saw 2 people disconnect at the same time travelling into the trial, who live on opposite sides of the world, we also had a group wide rubber band for multiple seconds on the second boss where everyone froze then sped up quickly (we are trying for the trifecta for 2 group members who don't have it, there were deaths because of this.) After we reset we had another disconnect from someone travelling in to the trial who then kept getting an error at login and we decided to just call it there for the evening.

I've actually posted a clip of us rubberbanding in Rockgrove multiple times in the thread and I'm not certain if anyone from ZOS has actually seen it and it's pretty good example of what's happened to, I would say, the majority of trial groups.

Agree with you 100% here... my frustration comes from everything you said.

I missed what Jessica said, was it related to server performance or something else? Maybe we need to have a "spam the chat" moment like the PvP live stream - I was shocked when we actually got an acknowledgment for the amount of Cyrodiils flying in chat.

I need to see that.

oldbobdude wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin how come the updates have just stopped. How many weeks/months does it take to get leadership to answer some questions? The "vibe" for many months has been that ZoS is just waiting for this thread to die down so it's not a problem you all have to address anymore. Continued lack of action and failure to really address anything 7 months in is not helping shift that narrative.

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered. I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts. As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

One Idea: Temporarily ban the use of Bandits UI for a month and see if anything is fixed.
There might also be others like it causing strain on the hardware due to reaching through it to grab information to display to its user. Also I feel like there should be a setting to deny others addons from doing that.
I had to have a random tank disable his Bandits addon because it was autopinging and causing a strain on my machine.
If that also fixes the consoles having issues... There must be server overlap or something, even though there's no crossplay.

Just a thought.

If it has no effect, unban it so people don't cry bloody murder about it.

I uninstalled bandits 2 days ago. I experienced the freeze lag today near a while picking a node in Galen today.

@KaironBlackbard

It's not that bandits hurts the users system, rather their allies are the ones who pay the price, especially if they have low end internet like Centurylink.

KaironBlackbard · November 22

tincanman wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

@KaironBlackbard - add-ons and associated api are clearly NOT the issue as console players who have zero access to either are experiencing the same disconnect and other performance issues.

Your observed performance improvement on a 1-time basis with this add-on and others use of it, which has not been significantly replicated by other pc gamers and CANNOT be experienced by CONSOLE users, is likely to be entirely coincidental and have zilch to do with the add-on. Your conclusion, methinks, is likely to just be a false correlation (...does not equal causation....).

Great that you are having a better experience of the game, though.

It can if both virtual servers use the same hardware. ....

They don't. They run on separate hardware as demonstrated by the separate hardware upgrades for all the different platforms. It's referenced here by Matt Firor:

ZOS_MattFiror wrote:

....the new date for PC EU getting new hardware will be in early April, and PlayStation EU should follow...

Really glad that you, personally, have found a solution to your individual issues by disabling this add-on and/or others use of it, but it cannot possibly be the reason for everyone else having issues and continuing to have issues.

This:

LadyGP wrote: »

Not add ons.

Moving on.

ITS NOT MY ADDON HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT

KaironBlackbard · November 22

sarahthes wrote: »

If you have multiple different unique issues, all being posted to the same thread, I don't think a solution can ever be found tbh.

true

tincanman · November 22

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

@KaironBlackbard - add-ons and associated api are clearly NOT the issue as console players who have zero access to either are experiencing the same disconnect and other performance issues.

Your observed performance improvement on a 1-time basis with this add-on and others use of it, which has not been significantly replicated by other pc gamers and CANNOT be experienced by CONSOLE users, is likely to be entirely coincidental and have zilch to do with the add-on. Your conclusion, methinks, is likely to just be a false correlation (...does not equal causation....).

Great that you are having a better experience of the game, though.

It can if both virtual servers use the same hardware. ....

They don't. They run on separate hardware as demonstrated by the separate hardware upgrades for all the different platforms. It's referenced here by Matt Firor:

ZOS_MattFiror wrote:

....the new date for PC EU getting new hardware will be in early April, and PlayStation EU should follow...

Really glad that you, personally, have found a solution to your individual issues by disabling this add-on and/or others use of it, but it cannot possibly be the reason for everyone else having issues and continuing to have issues.

This:

LadyGP wrote: »

Not add ons.

Moving on.

ITS NOT MY ADDON HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT

You misunderstood.

What I wrote was: "...this add-on and others use of it...". Repeatedly. This does not mean, imply or otherwise remotely suggest 'your'(or your use of 'my' as you have mistakenly asserted) in any sense whatsoever.

Not sure if I can clarify or simplify it further than that. *shrug*

Have a great weekend!

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

...In this case the resulting improvement is a coincidence that obscures a programming problem within the client code, communications code, the server code or a combination of the three.

This, too, was my conclusion: any observed improvement is coincidental, particularly since replication has been sparse at best.

sshogrin · November 22

@KaironBlackbard please explain to me how I've been on runs where absolutely nobody was running Bandits UI, and people had issues, but I've also been on runs where a bunch of people were running Bandits UI and we had no issues. If Bandits UI was the issues, you'd think that the run with nobody running it wouldn't have had any issues, but it did.

I've played this game since Beta, I've used Bandits UI for years...I haven't had any problems until a patch or 2 ago...is it really Bandits UI or something in the code?

I used to have Centurylink also, with less bandwidth than you (5Mb then 10Mb), I didn't have any issues even when running Bandits UI. If you actually look at your up/down when playing the game, it's Kbs, not Mbs... I currently have 1Gig Fiber, last week not an issue, I ran like 10 trials, the past day or so I get major issues the longer I'm in a trial, which "oddly enough" is exactly like Cloudrest that hasn't been fixed in forever.

I haven't changed any addons and am currently #1 on leaderboard for vHRC, and I had no frame drops or latency issues, and we ran it a number of times in 2 hours. For me things seem worse with more people running Banner scribed skill and when that update went Live. It seems that things got worse when the scribed skills were introduced in the beginning and people started using them.

Ruthless · November 22

I cant believe ESO is still in business with awful performance like this.

sarahthes · November 22

Ruthless wrote: »

I cant believe ESO is still in business with awful performance like this.

It's not awful for everyone, nor is it constant. In fact, among the people I do raids with its largely gone back to normal. Haven't had any bad raids due to server in at least a month.

meekmiko · November 22

sarahthes wrote: »

Ruthless wrote: »

I cant believe ESO is still in business with awful performance like this.

It's not awful for everyone, nor is it constant. In fact, among the people I do raids with its largely gone back to normal. Haven't had any bad raids due to server in at least a month.

Meanwhile I'll run a dungeon, or sit in an empty unfurnished house, by myself and the latency jumps absolutely through the roof and becomes unplayable. My skills don't fire off, but the enemies sure hit me with everything they've got in dungeons, trials, overland, delves. Doesn't matter.
And while discarding any unwanted items from my inventory or mail I get kicked to login for spamming, lawl.

With and without add-ons.

Jaimeh · November 23

Three people in the group simultaneously crashed to desktop during a trial at the last boss fight, they all got a queue when they tried to log back in. This was on PCNA during non prime-time hours. There's obviously something with the servers, how are we supposed to clear content like this @ZOS_Kevin?

Coo_PnT · November 23

I played for 3 hours yesterday on Cyrodiil (PC/NA) during Asian prime time.The population as measured by Steam would be about 8000-10000 people? Bar situation on EP2 DC2 AD1. Naturally there were no lag or disconnections because of the low number of people. There might have been occasional lag but it is a daily occurrence. This is my personal situation, but if the population is small, this problem is rare.

The tricky part of this problem is that the lag and disconnections happen at random times to random people. And every platform has reported this problem. I like the Bandits UI and use it, but I'm not an expert, so I don't know, but if it affects performance, I'm sure ZoS's network engineers would notice it right away.

As I wrote before, it is fine if there are no add-ons. Besides, it is fairer that way.

KaironBlackbard · November 23

sshogrin wrote: »

@KaironBlackbard please explain to me how I've been on runs where absolutely nobody was running Bandits UI, and people had issues, but I've also been on runs where a bunch of people were running Bandits UI and we had no issues. If Bandits UI was the issues, you'd think that the run with nobody running it wouldn't have had any issues, but it did.

Bandits UI isn't THE source of issues, but A source for low end households like mine.
Other addons that snag ally information may affect the same way.

It's just one of a multitude of problems.

KaironBlackbard · November 23

Hence why I'm building passive builds.
One that is working ok right now is Thews of the Harbinger build.
Secondary set currently Ayleid Refuge, also tried Adamant Lurker, Shattered Fate 5pc, and Warrior Poet.
Warrior Poet was best for improving damage due to high health. Shattered Fate was because my penetration couldn't pierce enemy armor in PvP, didn't improve the damage at all even though my pen went from 16k to 24k. Adamant Lurker was good regen, even in PvP. Ayleid Refuge helps resist damage more.
Alternating between Ice Staff (mag block) and shield (stam block).
Lingering Flare double barred (Major Protection).
Shield bar runs spell wall.
Most abilities are ones that grant slotting effects, good for passive combat builds.
Why?
Because I can hardly cast abilities on this pathetic Centurylink Internet that disconnects every 2 minutes for about 30 seconds, sometimes more often.
When it's really bad, I can't even access email.
On a good day it can last up to 4 hours before disconnect, but my ping according to speedtest.net is over 800 on upload, every time I test it, even with nothing running.

My most powerful character so far is a Sorc, but he's not built for passive combat. Not yet anyways. Need Cutting Defense, although that's one of the weakest damages I've ever seen. Still looking for a set that does something similar. Runs with Cyrodiils Light, High Elf, Meditate, and Deliberation. Also use Symbiosis and Absorption Field to make him somewhat a healer atm until I can find what I'm looking for. Definitely keeping those on forever.

sshogrin · November 23

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Hence why I'm building passive builds.
One that is working ok right now is Thews of the Harbinger build.
Secondary set currently Ayleid Refuge, also tried Adamant Lurker, Shattered Fate 5pc, and Warrior Poet.
Warrior Poet was best for improving damage due to high health. Shattered Fate was because my penetration couldn't pierce enemy armor in PvP, didn't improve the damage at all even though my pen went from 16k to 24k. Adamant Lurker was good regen, even in PvP. Ayleid Refuge helps resist damage more.
Alternating between Ice Staff (mag block) and shield (stam block).
Lingering Flare double barred (Major Protection).
Shield bar runs spell wall.
Most abilities are ones that grant slotting effects, good for passive combat builds.
Why?
Because I can hardly cast abilities on this pathetic Centurylink Internet that disconnects every 2 minutes for about 30 seconds, sometimes more often.
When it's really bad, I can't even access email.
On a good day it can last up to 4 hours before disconnect, but my ping according to speedtest.net is over 800 on upload, every time I test it, even with nothing running.

My most powerful character so far is a Sorc, but he's not built for passive combat. Not yet anyways. Need Cutting Defense, although that's one of the weakest damages I've ever seen. Still looking for a set that does something similar. Runs with Cyrodiils Light, High Elf, Meditate, and Deliberation. Also use Symbiosis and Absorption Field to make him somewhat a healer atm until I can find what I'm looking for. Definitely keeping those on forever.

Centurylink will route you all over the US...it's crazy if you do a traceroute. I used to hit anywhere from 20-30 servers before getting to ZOS, now I have at most 10.

Like I said, I had a worse Centurylink connection that you do, I live 6 miles out from the CO that had a max connection rate if next to the CO at 58Mb. I've run Bandits UI for years and never had an issue, even with a 5 Mb connection. If you have anything else connected to your network (especially a cell phone, cell phones are bandwidth hogs, they constantly), that also might be contributing to your issue.
Again, have run in groups where absolutely nobody was running Bandits UI (we did a test because people keep claiming that) and we had DCs, crash to desktops, latency spikes, frame drops, and it happened randomly to people. I have also done runs were part or all of us were running Bandits UI and we had absolutely no issues.

bzz86 · November 23

I logged into the game about 5pm CET - to PC-EU. Did couple of steps wit my char and got teleported back to where i started. I tried again to walk towards the quest givers and got kicked from the game. I have tried about 5 more times before giving up and checking this forum to see if it is only me. I disabled all of my addons and tried again - and well it got better, so I continued on my way to do my quests. My happiness lasted about 5 minutes before the ping spike came back. I gave up now as whatever I do in games things kill me due to the lags.

I wish I did not like ESO so I can just stop playing it, everytime I buy a month of ESO+ there is an event and lags. I need to stop playing or buying the subscription...... Maybe its time to change the MMO...

LadyGP · November 23

sarahthes wrote: »

Ruthless wrote: »

I cant believe ESO is still in business with awful performance like this.

It's not awful for everyone, nor is it constant. In fact, among the people I do raids with its largely gone back to normal. Haven't had any bad raids due to server in at least a month.

First person in any trial group, and I know MANY, that have said they don't have issues. I'd say you are in the minority.

Yes, it is constant for those of us who have issues. It's an every day thing.

LadyGP · November 23

Even something remotely close to this - but related to this thread - would go a long way here.... just sayin.