Either way, people are going to exploit AoE.

No AoE cap: exploiters will just spam AoE abilites to the exclusion of all others.
With an AoE cap: exploiters will just cluster together to ensure minimal damage.

Which of these exploits would be the least damaging to PvP is debatable.

Wait... so when there is AoE cap and people stack they are exploiting stacking. When there is no AoE cap and people spread out... aren't they exploiting spreading?

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

I can picture it now: there's a breach at an enemy keep and all you see is 30-40 exploiters all spamming AoE in that small area. It'll be just as infuriating as stacking.

I'm fine with both outcomes. Neither AoE cap nor lack thereof will not be mercilessly exploited. This is an MMO, after all.

Or you could, y'know, spread out. Maybe try flanking the enemy from another angle (OMG STRATEGY IMAGINE THAT). It's AoE. You're not intended to stand in it drooling.

You can't argue that it's intended for groups that stand on top of eachother to be immune to AoE, which is what stacking exploits ARE.

Also you're daft if you think AoE caps won't be exploited in this manner - and nuking idiots that cluster together with AoE when there is no cap is hardly "exploiting" - it's the WHOLE POINT OF AOE.

AoE caps have been in the game since release, but the tooltips were not updated. Which is why they stated some are not behaving properly (Dark Talons). Majority of the player base didn't realize until ZOS said something, but Combat Log Statistics has been showing it if you actually looked at it.

As far as WildStar's PvP... I'm tired of instanced honestly. I don't think I even played any of Guild Wars 2 instanced PvP because I've just been so burnt out on it in every MMO before Guild Wars 2. Rift.. leveled 3 characters through instanced PvP since I had already done all the quests on 1 character. I leveled 3 characters in SWTOR through the instanced PvP. Warhammer the instanced PvP was the only place you could find remotely balanced PvP since Destruction owned all the servers in a severe population imbalance. The little I played of WoW was the same.. instanced PvP to level because questing was boring.

So it's not that WildStar will have bad PvP to me.. but it's nothing new or shiny.. just different variations of objective pvp that has been done before.

The cool thing with Warhammer, Guild Wars 2 and now ESO is that you don't know who will show up.. how many they will have.. if they are organized.. or where they will attack. It's way more dynamic and random which I think people like myself that LOVE RvR want instead of instanced objective based PvP that has been around since the early FPS days.

(I know DAoC was before all the other RvR type games, but I didn't play it. So I don't comment about it)

Zintair wrote: »

Lucardes wrote: »

Dalriaden wrote: »

JexTex wrote: »

Yep...F2P in less than year for sure lol....the terrible veteran system has ran alot of people off...out of 75 of my guild members a good 35-40% havent logged in about 5+ days...they simply put to much single player into the game look at swtor...

Don't get it. Didn't take long at all to get VR10. Get an exp bonus for grouping with guildmates, and can wear two ring of maras and therefore have two dedicated quest partners, or more for when some are offline. The game is what you make of it. Very few of the VR rank main story line quests are individual and the one that was phased for individuals Im half certain was a bug. So if you're in a group...questing together...it's a multiplayer game.

Guess it's just easier to come on the forum and whine its a single player game but I went 15 or so - VR10 with a tank/healer and myself as dps.

PVP experience could use a buff and theyre buffing the amount for player kills which will help somewhat. They do need to address population balance, and I have no idea why batswarm exploiting was allowed to happen so long, (But it will forever make me hate DC.)

There have been multiple rumors about dueling and 5v5 and I believe ZEO even mentioned it was going to be added at a later date. Of course with the introduction of that the forums will be flooded with complaints x class cant beat y class in a 1v1 need nurfs naow.

Anything ZOS says I will take with a grain of salt.

Also yes you may be able to get VR10 like you said (I personally don't think its easy as it sound, it takes damn long) the fact is I have to do pve to gain it is what killed it for me and as others mentioned here. Force your pvp'ers to do pve...

and you know what's the funny part? it's so easy to fix by changing a value of a parameter so that xp is higher in cyrodil but no they decide to wait on it... why wait? why not implement it now and save your players? and don't get me started on the LACK OF COMMUNICATION, never have I see a game that not a SINGLE developer has at least replied to any of our questions or concerns.

DAOC you had to level PvE to play PvP and that was 2x as hard as this.

You would actually LOSE Xp when you died. There was no buff system when you entered PvP so if you came across a 50 and you were 35 guess what would happen?

People were FORCED to organize and get their *** together.

I am near positive you never played just based on the posts you have been making the past few weeks.

You claim to want a solution yet I only see part of the problem.

@Zintair
I did play DAOC in the past and I know what your saying. But you can;t take old systems and apply it to todays more growing mainstream crown. I started my MMO history since Everquest and that was even worse...

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Siege Weapons have no max target – they will affect anyone who is in their target radius.

Siege weapons don't have the same AoE caps. So stacking could be effective in the open field, but if you try stacking to push through a door with oil placed around it and a catapult behind it then you are walking into a death trap by stacking.

The stacking effect will only be truly effective in open ground warfare between objectives. At keeps, outposts and resource camps siege weapons will dominate groups stacking.

I don't really see why there is so much fuss about the AoE caps. The only issues that are worth fussing about are the abilities that were intended to have caps (dark talons) that don't behave as intended.

For those that don't know where the quote from ZOS came from... and you should if you want to discuss AoE balance at all... the information is here.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/89420/area-of-effect-abilities-maximum-target-cap-clarification/p1

I have found that the PvP in this game in this game is far more engaging than any other MMO I have played. Having an entire war play out around you is a lot more interesting than just having the same set piece battle play again and again ad nauseum. It is a complete war and not just a single battle, and I love war.

I honestly cant think of a MMO with better large scale pvp, sure there are issues with balance and bugs in ESO, but no game ever has been any better. This only a few weeks after release, this is only going to get better. I do miss duels and some small scale pvp which demands other skills, but that will come too.

In every single MMO ive played there are doomsday sayers in the official forums, claiming to know that the next hot thing is so much better, now its wildfire. Have fun there, im sure that game attracts adult players with no *** talk in zone chat, are easy to communicate and cooperate with, and is bug free on release...

And I hope if any of you who are leaving actually likes that new game, will be having a great time with all the new doomsday sayers in their official forums too

ESO already bleeding subs if you havent noticed.
No numbers can be given, but a quick look at the pvp campaings can tell you that its a exodus in the making.

At this rate with no word from Zenimax its going to be a rough month.

Lucardes wrote: »

Hold on a second... which campaign are you part of and what side? You must be getting hand held. The most engaged pvp I played is ones that are sandbox types.. like EvE, PS such of that. Theameparks are a joke.

I must be an old gamer but I don't know the terms "sandbox" and "themepark" in relation to MMOs. Must be some new term.

When I hear terms like "sandbox" games I think of Roller Coaster Tycoon or Sim City or even perhaps a game like Vice City. There has been no true MMO sandbox game. You might bring up EvE but I never played that as I am not into flight simulation or spaceship type games so that game is extremely unappealing to me.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Alestair wrote: »

Actually PVP is getting more and more now that there are no "invincible" vampires now. So, me and friends came back to pvp and well, we are enjoying it once more

I think this is true as well. My guild seems to think more people are coming back to PvP because less people feel forced to run vamp builds to be competitive. Also more people are hitting higher levels now and are interested to check out PvP now that the vampires have been adjusted. People already knew that there was an issue in PvP even if they weren't PvPing yet so they were waiting for things to be adjust before even trying it.

RaZaddha wrote: »

So I believe you have not seen GW2 forums...

That made me laugh. Months of people complaining on forums about classes and pvp with no developer comments at all.

It's because it's true.. People are coming back to pvp now that Vamps are no longer invincible..or should I say, "One can't simply take on a whole faction"


My 28 Dedicated members in my guild returned and have kept their sub, and honestly they almost Canceled until Batswarm was fixed and until it was confirmed they can no longer take on a whole army by themselves anymore. So yes..The people that left? Well, Most are coming back...The minority are going to Wildstar and let me remind you I tried the open beta, I didn't last 40 minutes and why? It's def not a bad game because I didn't play long enough, the reason is, MY EYES can't handle the Cartoony Colorful Graphics it has, and the music in the starting area reminded me of a Circus I went too and a circus i will always remember when a clown scared the crap out of me and caused me to vomit, Such as What Wildstar did....

Izatar wrote: »

It kind of bothers me, no, it really bothers me, to read in this thread, forum and chat in general people talking about trivialities like AOE caps, and yet missing the bigger picture.
This game is charades, ok. It appears to be about factional warfare, but it is nothing of the sort. Large guilds using every shady advantage play all sides of the 3 factions, and control every significant event. Individual players not in the inner circle of the large guilds have no impact at all.
The game is rigged. If you don't know it, you are quite frankly a clueless cow up for slaughter. This game is about sadistic and psychopathic predators farming the cow people.
Either you know this, or you are a cow person, just food for the slaughter.
Honor, individual ability, team work,these are all irrelevant. You are being played. You are a pawn. You cannot make a difference. Many of your teammates are not actually on your side, they are confederates in a scheme to get achievements for their real guild. Which is likely just a scheme for selling toons for cash. Gold sellers and farmers in a different guise.

How is that aluminum foil hat working out for you? I always imagined they would be a little hot to wear.

ESO has a TON of replayable potential. Why nerf experience gain in pvp, group dungeons? WHO CARES if people can level faster then others, at least they are working together.

1. Experience from pvp / group dungeons should be the same speed as solo pve. GIVE US A CHOICE
2. Arenas / Duels needed. Players are already getting bored of Cyrodiil only 1 month into release. Where will we be in 6 months?
3. Greatly reduce cost to Alliance point rewards. 600,000+ alliance points for one piece of gear is not attainable for the average player, especially if you plan to raise veteran rank every patch...
4. REMOVE the gold costs to reset skill points. "Play how you want to play?" I haven't even touched half of the available skills trees simply because I cannot afford to.
5. Some form of Auction House / Better searching features added to existing Guild Stores. How is anyone supposed to sell valuable things when others can't search for them?
6. Optional nameplates or auras around Friends / Guildies. No one ruins their immersion if they turn on the feature themselves. How are we supposed to distinguish our friends / guildies from the thousands of other players in the world? We don't.
7. Fire the developer/artist in charge of armor/weapon models. What happened here? This is ELDER SCROLLS, known for beautiful environments and amazing looking gear sets. Why does every top end piece of gear look awful?

My apologies if this has been brought up already. But I feel if there were some sort of battleground areas with maybe a 10 level difference and a open zone with a keep to take, would solve a lot of the PVP fans woes. I am one of them. Unless your in a zerg or a high level veteran PVP is kind of a joke. (DAOC I think did this best.)

Yes, you can ride with higher level players but your horse is slower and eventually you will be picked off by people waiting for stragglers and thats if your not one hitter by some higher level AOE.

I am a PVP guy but it feels like I have to be a high level veteran to even compete.

Hate to make this comparison agin but I had a blast in the battleground of DAOC from level 8 all the way till I could competently compete in the end game PVP. It was a way for low level toons to test your skills against other toons with a similar level.

If there were feasible areas for low level characters to play I feel like people wouldn't be rushing through the PVE and would actually soak up some of the rich content that ESO worked so hard on.

I am also not a active forum guy. But I believe so much in ESO and feel distraught enough to make a forum post about the current state of PVP in ESO.

And lastly. I do feel like there are server unbalanced issues but I have no recommendation to fix. My main concern of now is for low levels to actively PVP in a reasonably fair way.

Thank you for your time.

Kyotee0071 wrote: »

Add some battlegrounds to mix up the pvp options.

If folks don't like objective based battlegrounds they do not have to queue for them. A lot of players, myself included, like both AVA/RVR and Battleground pvp. They are different beast, and both very fun.

I couldn't agree more Kyotee! I think a lot of us feel that way. I do wish ESO would realize this.

I wasn't able to participate in the Beta. But I am a little surprised this wasn't a big issue there.

Thanks for the post!