PvP is dying.... with nothing in future outlook (ZOS not saying anything still)

Lucardes

Zintair wrote: »

Maybe you should have not made that post that ultimately destroyed whatever balance we had on Wabbajack??

I honestly don't think it was my post, word of mouth and I'm sure amongst other things is what destroyed it. What happened in Wabbajack also happened in other campaigns, it's like people jumping with the zerg because it's easier and thus the imbalance happens.

Honfold

Lucardes wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

This system is the PVP Endgame. Most people haven't reached that point yet and are still trying to level up before devoting themselves to PVP. This is how a lot of games were. It will be a few months before the majority reach leavel 50 start PVPing a lot. Zenimax is waiting for this.

A lie, don't you get it? They said they don't differentiate between pve'ers and pvp'ers, well guess what. That's a lie because they are forcing pvp'ers to level in pve zones because its fastest way and oh the next content patch coming doesn't have a SINGLE pvp related new content oh and to add to that the future outlook lists only imperial city pvp dungeon while the other bullet points are all pve related. Simple dude they lied to the players in-order to get more upfront sales on the Collectors Editions, don't forget this is a business. They just looked at it at the benefits of the short term. I already cancelled not supporting this lie or EVEN THE LACK OF DAMN COMMUNICATION. Seriously how many posts like mine saying this imbalance is killing many players and not 1 damn reply or outlook on fixing this. Yup I'm done. 4 days remaining...

Well they did say that they were going to make the keeps harder to take.

shirorxb14_ESO

Lucardes wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Maybe you should have not made that post that ultimately destroyed whatever balance we had on Wabbajack??

I honestly don't think it was my post, word of mouth and I'm sure amongst other things is what destroyed it. What happened in Wabbajack also happened in other campaigns, it's like people jumping with the zerg because it's easier and thus the imbalance happens.

I wouldn't say this is the case for AB NA. If anything it's remained relatively the same, with steady improvement on EP & DC. The only constant is AD is always zerging everywhere 100% of the time.

Honfold

Lucardes wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Maybe you should have not made that post that ultimately destroyed whatever balance we had on Wabbajack??

I honestly don't think it was my post, word of mouth and I'm sure amongst other things is what destroyed it. What happened in Wabbajack also happened in other campaigns, it's like people jumping with the zerg because it's easier and thus the imbalance happens.

I think people are starved for a balanced and active server. So when they see one everyone runs to it.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Honfold wrote: »

Lucardes wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Maybe you should have not made that post that ultimately destroyed whatever balance we had on Wabbajack??

I honestly don't think it was my post, word of mouth and I'm sure amongst other things is what destroyed it. What happened in Wabbajack also happened in other campaigns, it's like people jumping with the zerg because it's easier and thus the imbalance happens.

I think people are starved for a balanced and active server. So when they see one everyone runs to it.

Ive yet to see ANY mmo with balanced populations.

JexTex

Yep...F2P in less than year for sure lol....the terrible veteran system has ran alot of people off...out of 75 of my guild members a good 35-40% havent logged in about 5+ days...they simply put to much single player into the game look at swtor...they focused way to heavily on the storyline/questing and what do u know game was a ghost town after 6 months...

I really like the graphics and lore but so much is missing or seems to be lacking due to iether budget cuts or console issues...i havent seen a popluation fallout this fast on any mmo ever..even aion

Sykotik_ESO

All these doomsayers remind me of the show doomsday preppers for when everyone thought the world was going to end in 2012 lol.

Lucardes

Sykotik_ESO wrote: »

All these doomsayers remind me of the show doomsday preppers for when everyone thought the world was going to end in 2012 lol.

Thing is what we are saying are facts and shared concern with most of the posts that are here. Funny no PR control on Zenimax, once you don't see constant communication or even shoot when did you even see a true developer respond to any of the threads here (pvp or pve areas) none whatsoever. Too much control on communication from Zenimax leaves many players to assume the worst.

Infraction

Lucardes wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

This system is the PVP Endgame. Most people haven't reached that point yet and are still trying to level up before devoting themselves to PVP. This is how a lot of games were. It will be a few months before the majority reach leavel 50 start PVPing a lot. Zenimax is waiting for this.

A lie, don't you get it? They said they don't differentiate between pve'ers and pvp'ers, well guess what. That's a lie because they are forcing pvp'ers to level in pve zones because its fastest way and oh the next content patch coming doesn't have a SINGLE pvp related new content oh and to add to that the future outlook lists only imperial city pvp dungeon while the other bullet points are all pve related. Simple dude they lied to the players in-order to get more upfront sales on the Collectors Editions, don't forget this is a business. They just looked at it at the benefits of the short term. I already cancelled not supporting this lie or EVEN THE LACK OF DAMN COMMUNICATION. Seriously how many posts like mine saying this imbalance is killing many players and not 1 damn reply or outlook on fixing this. Yup I'm done. 4 days remaining...

Lucardes wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

This system is the PVP Endgame. Most people haven't reached that point yet and are still trying to level up before devoting themselves to PVP. This is how a lot of games were. It will be a few months before the majority reach leavel 50 start PVPing a lot. Zenimax is waiting for this.

A lie, don't you get it? They said they don't differentiate between pve'ers and pvp'ers, well guess what. That's a lie because they are forcing pvp'ers to level in pve zones because its fastest way and oh the next content patch coming doesn't have a SINGLE pvp related new content oh and to add to that the future outlook lists only imperial city pvp dungeon while the other bullet points are all pve related. Simple dude they lied to the players in-order to get more upfront sales on the Collectors Editions, don't forget this is a business. They just looked at it at the benefits of the short term. I already cancelled not supporting this lie or EVEN THE LACK OF DAMN COMMUNICATION. Seriously how many posts like mine saying this imbalance is killing many players and not 1 damn reply or outlook on fixing this. Yup I'm done. 4 days remaining...

Kewljag_66_ESO

Lucardes wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

This system is the PVP Endgame. Most people haven't reached that point yet and are still trying to level up before devoting themselves to PVP. This is how a lot of games were. It will be a few months before the majority reach leavel 50 start PVPing a lot. Zenimax is waiting for this.

A lie, don't you get it? They said they don't differentiate between pve'ers and pvp'ers, well guess what. That's a lie because they are forcing pvp'ers to level in pve zones because its fastest way and oh the next content patch coming doesn't have a SINGLE pvp related new content oh and to add to that the future outlook lists only imperial city pvp dungeon while the other bullet points are all pve related. Simple dude they lied to the players in-order to get more upfront sales on the Collectors Editions, don't forget this is a business. They just looked at it at the benefits of the short term. I already cancelled not supporting this lie or EVEN THE LACK OF DAMN COMMUNICATION. Seriously how many posts like mine saying this imbalance is killing many players and not 1 damn reply or outlook on fixing this. Yup I'm done. 4 days remaining...

That's why said what I did. most people are still in PVE because that's the fastest way to level. they want to get to 50 so THEN they can join the PVP Endgame. Most people go out and PVP have some fun, It then gives them a reason to go back to PVE and level up more. So they can hurry and get to 50 and enjoy the PVP. I am a PVP person but I still know that PVE I the fastest way to level so I do that. This is a mixed PVP and PVE game, you have to do both to be the best. That's the design, just like Darkage of Camelot.

But once the majority actually get there you will see a lot more people and more balance.

Right now I would recommend you transfer to a more balanced campaign like Bloodthorn, every day there are pushes back and forth between the alliances. DC usually controls the most but AD, and EP will push on DC at times. Its really fun and has endless action of every kind. personally I do my PVE there so I can have the wathc your back feel and pvp happening at anytime. doing the quest from the towns and having PVP mixed in actually levels you decently fast.

As for class balance they are working on it, its not going to happen in the first few months but its getting their.

From what I have seen PVP in general is getting better as more people realize that zerging doesn't give the best rewards, there are group vs group fights happening and certain places have become known for skirmishes.

With the upcoming Imperial City dungeon it should get much better. it is basically the same idea taken from Darkness Falls in Darkage of Camelot. Each side fights for control threw objectives and once 1 side gains control they get to clear the enemy side out. It then becomes a PVE prize with unque currency, gear and raid style bosses deep inside. And also a good place to level. Darkness Falls was probably the best experience I have ever had in an MMo with its PVP / PVE system.

I wouldn't quit now, as the first month is always the 1 with the most problems, I would give the game a few more months and try an active balanced campaign like Bloodthorn if I were you. or your really gunna miss out.

Edit and also some these look ahead things will effect PVP

Justice System
Thieves guild / dark brother hood abilities
Spellcrafting. think magic scrolls that work like potions..

Arreyanne

Well I love PvP played the campaigns during early access and the first week almost exclusively.

Then the VR1- Vr5 started showing up and at 19 I wasn't even competitive so i went back to leveling and aint touched it since.

When I get to VR on my current toon I will go back but not before

To me it was like playing against another character is full epic PVP gear and me having level 10 gear no thanks I'll pass

BETAOPTICS

PvP. can be amazing at best but if your alliance army is not strategically effective or aren't as cooperative, it can lead into massive troubles. Like yesterday, our main army was way off to a distant territory, where our forces had no chance to get anymore, desperately trying to get one Elder Scroll to us.

Meanwhile we were loosing castles left and right and the enemy was two our castles short for emperor. They also got in front of our doorstep when finally a message was sent out, implying that what good does it make to desperately get one Elder Scroll to us when our enemies gain all our castles, two Elder Scrolls from us and an Emperor in a meanwhile.

After that we finally got some oomph to the real fights and started to regain some foothold of the area.

So at times. as seen above. The PvP. can be frustrating experience when there is nothing you can do about the enemies. Whether it is the class balance in 1v1, the fact that defending is nearly impossible feat with equal numbers or the fact that a big armies are like trains ravaging the countryside.

You can not do anything for the last thing and you should not but the rest could surely use some changes if you ask me. Then again, I'm still far from an expert so take it as it is.

But I got to say, when the numbers are even, there is nothing more amazing than a grand scale battles.

RedTalon

The imperial city will be open, now the imperial should be big so another pvp zone in the future.

Also the justice system is striking me has something that will bring a bit of pvp to the game in the open world, given players can be guards and players can get a bounty and become outlaws.

So seems there will be two pvp things down the road.

rawne1980b16_ESO

RedTalon wrote: »

The imperial city will be open, now the imperial should be big so another pvp zone in the future.

The Imperial city is that little island in the middle of Cyrodiil.

Not very big.

nukeyoo

I have a solution for everyone that is fed up with facing adversity in PvP.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1fe4jJFxAtQ

Phantorang

The notes also says:

Underdog bonuses in Cyrodiil—you’ll get more Alliance Points while fighting for an alliance with a lower population in your campaign

Which is more than nothing, and tells me they are taking the imbalance issue seriously. But I think they are careful with what they do, to avoid over compensation. Doing to much could be just as bad, so finding the right balance will take some time, but we will get there I believe

Grim13

Honestly, PvP in it's current form, deserves to die. Don't get me wrong, there's so much about it that I find great... and I often enjoy it, however, the dark talon / shield bash spam is so frustrating that it ruins the experience for me. When I do escape it's abuse... my shadow cloak glitches out on me, lol... so back into the dark talon, shield bash spam I go.

As much as I was loving ESO, I think I'm seriously starting to loathe Zenimax.

Sort it out, ffs!


I also love how you know a shield charge is incoming because your character stops being able to move. What a load of horse****!

maholi

Phantorang wrote: »

The notes also says:

Underdog bonuses in Cyrodiil—you’ll get more Alliance Points while fighting for an alliance with a lower population in your campaign

Which is more than nothing, and tells me they are taking the imbalance issue seriously. But I think they are careful with what they do, to avoid over compensation. Doing to much could be just as bad, so finding the right balance will take some time, but we will get there I believe

Except this seems flawed to me. For NA/DB the highest alliance points are held by the underdog teams (EP/DC) for the simple reason that there are more AD to kill. They always have action. We suffer from DR on killing them and they aren't always easy to find. Awarding them even more will escalate them even further above us. Although maybe that is the point (?) Not sure why they think this is necessary.

beravinprb19_ESO

maholi wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

The notes also says:

Underdog bonuses in Cyrodiil—you’ll get more Alliance Points while fighting for an alliance with a lower population in your campaign

Which is more than nothing, and tells me they are taking the imbalance issue seriously. But I think they are careful with what they do, to avoid over compensation. Doing to much could be just as bad, so finding the right balance will take some time, but we will get there I believe

Except this seems flawed to me. For NA/DB the highest alliance points are held by the underdog teams (EP/DC) for the simple reason that there are more AD to kill. They always have action. We suffer from DR on killing them and they aren't always easy to find. Awarding them even more will escalate them even further above us. Although maybe that is the point (?) Not sure why they think this is necessary.

Fighting against the odds should give an increased reward. There is far more risk involved, and being outnumbered usually means your alliance will have a hard time taking and holding anything on the map. Giving the losing team an underdog bonus encourages them to stay on the server and make the most of it, rather than leaving for greener pastures and making the situation even worse. It changes nothing, but its a nice gesture all the same.

LGAllastair

He quit, folks. Why are you still talking to an impacient ragequiter? Just let the thread die peacefully... jeez. it's his time, he spends it any way he wants.

OP, you won't be missed, thanks for informing the entire community that you quit, we were all dying to know.

7788b14_ESO

Rykoth wrote: »

Zenimax isn't responsible for what players choose to do as long as it is within the EULA and TOS.


The problem is the players. Zerg players don't like to lose. So they leave when a bigger zerg comes.

Here's a brilliant idea: fight back.

Z is responsible for what players do because they set the rules of what players can and cannot do.

7788b14_ESO

Lucardes wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

This system is the PVP Endgame. Most people haven't reached that point yet and are still trying to level up before devoting themselves to PVP. This is how a lot of games were. It will be a few months before the majority reach leavel 50 start PVPing a lot. Zenimax is waiting for this.

A lie, don't you get it? They said they don't differentiate between pve'ers and pvp'ers, well guess what. That's a lie because they are forcing pvp'ers to level in pve zones because its fastest way and oh the next content patch coming doesn't have a SINGLE pvp related new content oh and to add to that the future outlook lists only imperial city pvp dungeon while the other bullet points are all pve related. Simple dude they lied to the players in-order to get more upfront sales on the Collectors Editions, don't forget this is a business. They just looked at it at the benefits of the short term. I already cancelled not supporting this lie or EVEN THE LACK OF DAMN COMMUNICATION. Seriously how many posts like mine saying this imbalance is killing many players and not 1 damn reply or outlook on fixing this. Yup I'm done. 4 days remaining...

You used to be able to level with dugeons and/or pvp all that was nerfed for questing only. So they created forced pve.

maholi

[/quote]
Fighting against the odds should give an increased reward. There is far more risk involved, and being outnumbered usually means your alliance will have a hard time taking and holding anything on the map. Giving the losing team an underdog bonus encourages them to stay on the server and make the most of it, rather than leaving for greener pastures and making the situation even worse. It changes nothing, but its a nice gesture all the same.[/quote]

It's just that the losing team already has this advantage it seems so they want to give them more? Maybe. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Songs

I unsubbed a few days ago. I'm going to keep playing until my free time runs out, but it's only an hour or two every other day at this point. I've made it to vet 2 so far, and I'm just so extremely unhappy with this game.

First off, I love the graphics, but the movements in general, in particular combat feels horribly clunky. I wish it had better fluidity, and felt more realistic, but I know there's limits to what a game can do.

Second, I hate not being able to target anything. Yes, you can kind of target kill targets, but I can't choose who to heal. I'm sick of trying to heal myself with my last bit of magika and it heals some random person not even in my group. So, it's nice that the random person I don't even know gets to live, but I die and have to walk back. This frustration is amplified tenfold in Cyrodiil. I don't want to heal a lvl 11, I want to heal the vets in my vet group. They should definitely implement some sort of priority healing. Maybe even being able to hold a button while pressing my healing moves so that they heal me only, or just the people in my group (would kind of suck, because I already have to hold shift on my horse all the time, but anything is better than trying to heal your group and yourself and failing.)

Third, Cyrodiil is simply too large and there's too many people. There's just no balance in numbers. I play on Auriel's Bow as well, so during the Daggerfall's off hours, being in Cyrodiil is not a good idea. If the map were smaller, or the game's actually had end timers, maybe that would make it better. As it stands it's just an enormous zergfest that never ends. In addition to this, I hate how you can only spawn at keeps. If no one has a camp down at wherever you're attacking, you usually have a 5-10 minute horse ride back to the fight. That's really absurd, I think. You shouldn't have to spend more time running on your mount than fighting in PvP.

That's mostly what I find wrong with the game. I think the character customization, overall look of the game, and the other aspects like crafting, questing, and storyline are pretty awesome. I just wish more of the game was refined and better thought out.

idk

The design of Cyrodiil itself is not the issue. It is they put to many campaigns in the works and no balancing aspect though they plan to implement balancing at some point in the future. The leadership of ESO failed miserably in core aspects to bring about decent AvA PVP. People just move to the campaign their faction is powerful in. That equates to no real PVP in the game. As long as the game continues with the same leadership I doubt any real changes, just knee jerk reactions, occur.

I enjoy the art, story line and combat mechanics of this game. Hardly a night goes by that there is not some short period of time that frustration with some aspect of the game takes the lead, though I enjoy it mostly.

Laura

looking in all the wrong places
http://www.twitch.tv/tesoelite/c/4205329

The lead pvp designer discusses in great detail your issues and what they plan to do (things like shortening campaigns)

Games been out a month, I know people expect things to be perfect and instant but in the real world it doesn't work that way. I agree they should discuss things a little more but its easy to lose track of things with so much going on.

Chryos

Only about 5 weeks out, I believe your throwing in the towel a little early don't you think? I'm pretty sure whatever ZOE has plans for as far as the pvp dungeon, is probably going to be pretty amazing. I know I can not wait.

Redsun

i think pvp is already kinda dead.

First is the level exploit making players reach VR so fast.
Next is the dupe exploit generating lots of cash, materials and gears making the gap even wider.
Final nail is the vamp exploit.

And Ppl are forced to pve to reach VR level to pvp.

I'm getting bored of pveing. I want to pvp but I cant because i get destroy by VRs and exploiters and vamps.

With no other pvp alternatives and a single common pvp zone, failing to make cyrodiil fair for everyone is zenimax biggest failing.

Thalmar

If they can make a dedicated level 10-49 campaign and a free transfer to other campaigns when you hit Veteran ranks it will pull back many players, or even you can choose your Veteran campaign while you level up in this temporary campaign if they worry about faction imbalance.

Actually only one reason i stop joining campaigns was the big difference between a V10 and a level 21 as it should be. A simple stat change can never balance this difference. Right now i am trying to level up as fast as i can, but will never step in before i become high veteran rank, because it was more like feeding veteran ranks ego instead having fun.

Pablozfzw

I agree with lot's of arguments presented here, about unbalance in campaign, in class, problems with performance, all this stuff.

But i think that you forget in this discussion one thing, before the game went live they advertised AvA as a area that you can jump in on lvl 10, and never leave it, that there will be quests, ways for level your character, and so on. There is none of that in Cyrodiil, if you want to level up you are forced to PvE, if more ppl would stay in Cyrodiil to just level up, the more people would roam it, and there would be more people for PvP. I understand that there is problem with balance in it, guys before v1 and v10 differs much, and it is hard to balance content for them, there is problem with travelling in Cyrodiil, you can't make quests there so efficient as in PvE areas. I think that boosting levelling ability, and rewards in Cyrodiil would increase drastically population in AvA area.