Theist_VII wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Templar from a PvP perspective is good as long as you're not in an outnumbered situation. It's a fantastic class in smaller groups and will always have a spot in a duo (or at least it won't be bad). In duels templar is easily an S tier class, if not the best (even tho duels are mainly a sets vs sets thingy, templar is an incredibly strong spec for that scenario)

In terms of survivability templar is more than fine, the problem is that you rarely have an offensive window. Back when bubble (eclipse) was carrying templar survivability you had that, but it was objectively way too good.

What templar needs in PvP is to move some of the power away from beam and give it to backlash (amd maybe jabs/sweeps).

Templar is only decent in a 1v1 because of Extended Ritual.

Even now though, players are getting more and more access to ways to flood negative effects, making that skill completely useless, and I mean look at Jarall’s. As soon as that set is introduced to a 1v1 and you’re on the receiving end as a Templar, you’ve lost the fight, there is no other class so complete and utterly shut down by a 2-piece. No debate whatsoever.

That’s also why they are absolute trash when fighting outnumbered. When players were only capable of 2-3 negative effects on you at a time, the class was much more approachable.

Adding more ways to protect against yourself from those negative effects should be paramount to improving the gameplay experience of the class.

That could look like a buff to Sun Shield as a buffer for your heal-over-times, Radiant Aura/Repentance could receive a selfish sustain benefit that would allow for more casting of Extended Ritual, or they could just outright double the amount of negative effects removed by the skill.

Making Sun Shield into a skill worth slotting seems to me, to be the least game breaking option, as infinite sustain or endless negative effect removal is not healthy for the game.

I´d argue that rune focus is a much bigger reason to why templar is so tanky in 1v1, but when you stack rune, ritual and vigor you do get a large amount of passive healing going on.

And I agree with you on Jerall (and relequen for that matter), these sets are a massive balance issue since they essentially have little to no counterplay (in CP enabled PvP you can run the cleanse CP, but in nocp you´re basically forced to run wyrd tree if you want an option to deal with jerall users). They basically hardcounter your ability to get rid of negative effects since every stack of Jerall/Relequen is considered its own negative effect.

Skulptro wrote: »

Making Sun Shield into a skill worth slotting seems to me, to be the least game breaking option, as infinite sustain or endless negative effect removal is not healthy for the game.[/quote]


but it is not. In PvE scaling with enemies hit makes it into a good-amoun shield. But in PvP it is still useless even against NPCs on flags. I made a video, you saw it. I can just press Honor the Dead one more time to keep my health high, instead of wasting a slot on a small-*** shield, who's amount isn't even enough to swap bars and press burst heal button.

I made the same exact build on live server to try that out. Went Cyro. Faced a sork. I've been standing in my rune ther whole time, spamming heals, while he is streaking around and nuking from distance. And, yeah, I have to admit, I used another morph of ritual, that causes damage. But all of that doesn't matter. I used my shield 2-3 times at max. Most of the time I just used a burst heal. AND!!! Moreover, my burst heal was Weild Soul with Major Vitality + Druid's Embrace. And it heals for the same amount as Honor the Dead does, And also costs less ALL THE TIME, not only if you have 75 or less HP, and also Vitality is allways 12% and on all the healing sources and shields. Healing Soul is better then Honor The Dead. Period.
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I don't agree with healing soul, honour the dead below 75% is like 60% off the cost effectively and healing soul when near others very rarely gave me the heal.

It's 18% every 2s for 6 seconds meaning near on 60% back. Target priority is far more important any way and I don't get on with healing soul

I have an Idea about Sun Shield. It's amount in PvP is already not too big, but asks for 6 enemies around you to get maximum capacity.
Let's s look at it from both tanking and PvP points. Tanks don't allways have 6 enemies on them. PvPer doesn't allways have 6 people in melee range on him.

What I suggest is to split the abount of bonuses unevenly. Total bonus may stay the same. For example, there is +120% in total, now on PTS. Let it be +70% per first enemy and +10% for each other enemy. So in total it is the same 120%. Exact numbers are up to combat team to tweak, but the idea is that even if there is an only enemy, but you stay on it, you get a good shield. In PvP, or as a Main Tank, you will not loose basically all the shield's strength. Yes, you can't get a fat shield if you are far away from your target, but if you play the way it's intended, you benefit.

Single-boss fights - templar tanks are happy not to be punished for having a single enemy, PvP templars are happy to have a new(old) shiny tool.

JUST DO IT.

If anyone wants to copy that into other threads, please, do so. I'm writing from my phone, I'm at work, so I won't be able to do it for next 8-10 hours probably. Stones aren't gonna cut themselves into roses, you know.

I would like to see Templar returned to area of denial gameplay since we see so much ground AOEs with Ritual and Rune and more active gameplay overall.

-for both morphs of jabs, each one will now heal for 33% damage dealt.

-for Ritual of Retribution make it snare for 40% or ramping damage per second scaling 50% per second up to 500% increased damage.

-for Extended Ritual - make it cleanse 3 effects every 5 seconds continuously or some such constant pattern, or cleanse all effects after 20 seconds.

-For Radiant Glory/Oppression/Destruction and its morphs bring the scaling down to 200% down from 500% and make it fire damage instead of just generic magic damage.

-For Power of the Light and Backlash morphs: simply leave the ability as is, but this time since it's so weak and the scaling is impossible to reach when loaded, remove the minor breach, but let the damage bypass all resistances. At least the crappy 2k/3k damage can now get through consistently.

-For Rune and it's morphs, turn it into a Runic Brand and let it be more impactful to walk over it for the Templar and their enemies where it roots the target enemies like a trap if they walk over it to give it active gameplay, instead of just ignored on the ground like a stain. And vice versa if the Templar walks back into their rune each time (cool down of 15 seconds) they gain a unique buff of 3000 damage on their next attack.

huskandhunger wrote: »

I would like to see Templar returned to area of denial gameplay since we see so much ground AOEs with Ritual and Rune and more active gameplay overall.

-for both morphs of jabs, each one will now heal for 33% damage dealt.

-for Ritual of Retribution make it snare for 40% or ramping damage per second scaling 50% per second up to 500% increased damage.

-for Extended Ritual - make it cleanse 3 effects every 5 seconds continuously or some such constant pattern, or cleanse all effects after 20 seconds.

-For Radiant Glory/Oppression/Destruction and its morphs bring the scaling down to 200% down from 500% and make it fire damage instead of just generic magic damage.

-For Power of the Light and Backlash morphs: simply leave the ability as is, but this time since it's so weak and the scaling is impossible to reach when loaded, remove the minor breach, but let the damage bypass all resistances. At least the crappy 2k/3k damage can now get through consistently.

-For Rune and it's morphs, turn it into a Runic Brand and let it be more impactful to walk over it for the Templar and their enemies where it roots the target enemies like a trap if they walk over it to give it active gameplay, instead of just ignored on the ground like a stain. And vice versa if the Templar walks back into their rune each time (cool down of 15 seconds) they gain a unique buff of 3000 damage on their next attack.

I see a lot of proposals to buff Templar skills that are already quite strong. That's not how ZOS (or balance in general) work. You need to focus on making unused skills useful, not on making already strong skills overpowered.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

I see a lot of proposals to buff Templar skills that are already quite strong. That's not how ZOS (or balance in general) work. You need to focus on making unused skills useful, not on making already strong skills overpowered.

I like the idea that Nova and it's morph has a pull; and has a reduce the cost. I'd rather have Solar Barrage increase in damage the more it hits its target(s). Unstable Core needs to have it's cost reduced; and/or instead of the different effects happening as your enemy attacks things happen over time(3 seconds) if it's not cleansed. Healing Ritual or Restoring Aura should have a unique buff or debuff that no other class has upon activation(and I encourage ZoS to find something interesting like this for all classes).

Just make the impending nerf to beam only impact players. Templars already are enough in PVE. Not Nightblade levels of sad, but still pretty sad. Taking beam from them would be too cruel.

gariondavey wrote: »

Imagine if gravity crush had a 70 percent slow that was uncleansable. People slowed by increased gravity and not even those magical boots could stop it.
Would be very interesting against ballgroups and in choke points.

I actually like this idea

Its really dumb as my sorc hits harder, from range, moves faster, and survives a lot better than when I run my templar. I chuckle when my sorc gets a sub 3k POTL when my light attack just crit someone right before that for 3k. Templar, I've gone double offensive sets and got jabs to show as 4500 tooltip and be at penetration of 15k or higher and hit someone for 800 per tick. That's if you can stay on them and maintain the HOTs and Living Dark to be off your back foot at the same time. But man, that RO will sure be nice if I manage to actually get someone to 50% outside of them not knowing im there

mmtaniac wrote: »

I think templar damage scale bad on skills. You can have 3 offensive sets in pvp and still you deal damage compared to nb with two defensive sets. I don't get why is that!?. Templar somehow can't function with battle spirit at all. Every thing battle spirit does are counter to templar. Templar is mostly countered by this debuff. On pve templar i different class, you have nice solid aoe damage and gameplay is good on pvp you become joke.

CP also counters jabs in multiple different ways on top of the major and minor evasion that's easily available now. As others have mentioned I can easily achieve a tool tip of 4500+ per jab jet only see numbers between 800-2000 on average if they land at all.
PoL never hits more than 4-5k no matter what I do and is by far the worst 'burst' skill in the game that also requires the most effort to achieve.